2 New Easy 2 Stroke Questions.

[lennya12threh]

I'll start with the 2 questions as I don't want to tell some story and lose you before you get to them.

1. If I have a Kawa Victor 150 with an autolube system and I'm going to mix 2T into the gas tank as well, is there anything I need to take out of the bike for the 2T to reach the piston chambre?? My thought was maybe there was some sort of way the 2T would get filtered out if I mixed it in the gastank itself, if it is set up to have autolube. Maybe the fuel filter, and I don't want 2T pilling up somewhere. I believe I should be able to premix it in the gastank and have it work fine but thought I should doublecheck as one time I mxed it in the gastank while using autolube too and I didn't much smoke at all after driving for 5 minutes.

2. When you give it full throttle and it hits the powerband on a 2stroke, then makes that sound like its dying and looses all power before getting through the powerband (without the engine shutting off, can just release throttle and drive on), could a reason be that it isn't getting enough 2T lubrication in the piston? I now have everything complete clean on guck on the inside and just replaced the piston. Could it be from a cold engine?

Now my story. I got the Victor and made a previous thread about what to do clean it up. At first it didn't have great power and sometimes would seem liek it lost all power. I then replaced the end piece(the silver peice) on the exhaust and got the rest of the exhuast (the normaly black piece) cut open and had all the shit burnt out. Then it drove like new but still felt liek it was lacking. I took the carb and airbox off and it was like spotless. So it felt like the bike was pretty much like new anyways and it always hit the powerband fairly smoothly unless driving for a while it seemed liek it would lose some grunt.

Then today I was driving very fast like 150 or so and really opening the throttle and the engine lost power and shut off at high speed. I pulled in the clutch, stopped and tried the kick start and it had liek no resistance. Opened it up with a mech and the piston head was fuc_ked. Those two little rings at the top that are normally moveable and like springs were like melted into the piston head on one side and immobalized and the piston head was sracthed up.

This could be because it was too hot or because there wasn't enough 2T and I was putting it up in high rpms for too long. Still not sure though. So I got the "lid" and piston chamber peice or engine head or whatever shaved down to make it nice and smooth again, the mech got new gaskets and o-rings and new piston head, put it back together very nicely with solutions on the bolts and orings and everything. (I watched him the whole time and helped him as well.) Also changed the spark plug as it was completely wrecked. Now it drives even better then before but just today I put it up in the power band again and it did the "engine dieing thing" where it looses power and doesnt stall, and then I drove on, I tried one more time and then it went right through the powerband fine like usual..... I'm not sure whats up because now everything is perfectly clean inside and has no more guck clogging stuff up. It seems to drive liek new but I'm just worried about this one time it made the shitty noise in the powerband.

Edited July 6, 2010 by lennya12threh

[BigBikeBKK]

Reading about you destroying yet another bike is kind of like like driving past the scene of an accident- you know you should just drive on but it's so hard not to slow down and gawk...

[lennya12threh]

lol, i didnt destroy it, it was just old.

[dave_boo]

Where's Thanh when you need him (in fact WHERE has he been)?

Do you have any idea of the ratio you were mixing your oil at? If you don't know what I'm talking about I hope you're going to enjoy seeing more of your mechanic.

[ttakata]

In used to run 40:1 oil in my water cooled pocketbike that revved to 15000 rpm but I always let it cool down after a tank of gas so it managed to stay reliable. Maybe the engine is gettin too much oil since you're Autolubing and premixing? Surely this affects the oil/fuel ratio and the combustion is affected in an adverse way. I can't give you any good advice other than search some two stroke forums since they have more experience.

[troehr]

Why are you mixing oil in the gas at all? That is why there is an autolube on the bike.

T

[submaniac]

Uhhhh...ooooo....ummmmm....don't know where to begin here. This is a mess. Adding additional 2t to the tank with a bike that has already got autolube is a recipe for disaster. 2t oil is not fuel. The engined is designed around a certain amount of fuel burning during the power stroke. 2t oil will affect the burn rate. You are changing the amount of fuel to oil so the fuel will not burn as it should because there is too much oil in there. There's a reason why people are asking you about what ratio you are mixing, and there's a reason why there is an autolube system to begin with. It puts the correct ratio in the combustion chamber. What you are doing is making the fuel too oil rich so it will not burn like it's supposed to. That will clog up your exhaust with unburned fuel and oil, and will reduce the power you have on the bike.

And to answer your question about the filter, there is a fuel filter. It will pick up particulates that are too big to go through the filter. Oil, however, will go through it. So it's gone through your engine.

[lennya12threh]

Before I feared the autolube wasn't working as it would only smoke for like 2 minutes wen you start it, but after driving you could never really see any.. At red lights I can rev it and theres like no smoke.

I researched about the 2T and read that 20-25ml to a litre is good. (about 40:1) Got it from a singapore bike form where guys have KRRs for street use. I also read alot about it being better not to rely on the autolube as if you like to DRIVE the bike, relying on a 15 year old autolube system can be disaster. I also read that a bit too much oil is better than too little. I'm not putting in a ton of oil or anything, (last time I added like 60ml after filling it up 3L, and still not much smoke at all after driving for a minute or two) and from the levels on the autolube tank, it is working, but its definately going to take me a month to go through the whole 1.2L tank. I also realize there is an adjuster for the autolube system that I can easily open or close to make it put in more or less 2T which I will be trying out as well. P.S. I am aware that too much oil will clog up the exhaust and cause a loss of power, but were no signs of that at all. I think that when I add some it brings the levels up to a more reasonable level for driving the bike a little hard.

As for the 2T being a cause for damage, I definately haven't done anything to it to cause such damage. I've added small amounts to the tank for piece of mind when driving as I fear the autolube isn't fully working, and even if the autolube was giving 20ml/L what I've added wouldn't be enough to cause such damage. I did do a bunch of searching on 2T levels before. The engine always seems to sound and feel better for the first 5 minutes of every drive and this is also when you can see a bit of smoke coming out. After have 5 minutes it seems liek the autolube nolonger gives it enough oil as at red lights I can rev it with no visual signs on smoke.

Ater the piston head got a bit distorted we did notice the water levels in the rad went down alot, as when he drained it it definately wasn't full and from the cap you couldn't see any water. Just a couple days ago it was full of nice green solution so I'm not sure where it went. Maybe it took it's escape route out of that other tank that sometimes drips excess water out if it ets to hot. Either way, checking the water will have to be something I check now every time I get on the bike. My drives are usualy about 40kms each.

The damage does seem liek more of an overheating problem as it was like the those 2 sealer rings at the top of the piston head were like melted into the head and immoblized. I can't it being from too much 2T. Maybe from too much heat and not enough 2T being put in the autolube. I should through up a pic of the old piston head so yall can see what happened to it. <BR><BR>At this point I'd rather just take out the autolube system and just pre-mix it myself for piece of mind.

Edited July 7, 2010 by lennya12threh

[spud1]

I don't understand why you would won't to add oil everytime you refuel.It's just a pain in the arse.Hence that is why modern two strokes have a autolube system that is surely easier to top up.If the autolube reservoir tank is containing oil and your adding oil to the

fuel then the ratio mixture is totally wrong,equating to the bike running like a bag of &lt;deleted&gt; and a trail of smoke following you around.If you won't to proceed with adding oil to your fuel you will have to empty the auto lube tank.It will probably take a few miles for

the fuel system to clear.If not it will need to be stripped down.

[spud1]

Before I feared the autolube wasn't working as it would only smoke for like 2 minutes wen you start it, but after driving you could never really see any.. At red lights I can rev it and theres like no smoke.

I researched about the 2T and read that 20-25ml to a litre is good. (about 40:1) Got it from a singapore bike form where guys have KRRs for street use. I also read alot about it being better not to rely on the autolube as if you like to DRIVE the bike, relying on a 15 year old autolube system can be disaster. I also read that a bit too much oil is better than too little. I'm not putting in a ton of oil or anything, (last time I added like 60ml after filling it up 3L, and still not much smoke at all after driving for a minute or two) and from the levels on the autolube tank, it is working, but its definately going to take me a month to go through the whole 1.2L tank. I also realize there is an adjuster for the autolube system that I can easily open or close to make it put in more or less 2T which I will be trying out as well. P.S. I am aware that too much oil will clog up the exhaust and cause a loss of power, but were no signs of that at all. I think that when I add some it brings the levels up to a more reasonable level for driving the bike a little hard.

As for the 2T being a cause for damage, I definately haven't done anything to it to cause such damage. I've added small amounts to the tank for piece of mind when driving as I fear the autolube isn't fully working, and even if the autolube was giving 20ml/L what I've added wouldn't be enough to cause such damage. I did do a bunch of searching on 2T levels before. The engine always seems to sound and feel better for the first 5 minutes of every drive and this is also when you can see a bit of smoke coming out. After have 5 minutes it seems liek the autolube nolonger gives it enough oil as at red lights I can rev it with no visual signs on smoke.

Ater the piston head got a bit distorted we did notice the water levels in the rad went down alot, as when he drained it it definately wasn't full and from the cap you couldn't see any water. Just a couple days ago it was full of nice green solution so I'm not sure where it went. Maybe it took it's escape route out of that other tank that sometimes drips excess water out if it ets to hot. Either way, checking the water will have to be something I check now every time I get on the bike. My drives are usualy about 40kms each.

The damage does seem liek more of an overheating problem as it was like the those 2 sealer rings at the top of the piston head were like melted into the head and immoblized. I can't it being from too much 2T. Maybe from too much heat and not enough 2T being put in the autolube. I should through up a pic of the old piston head so yall can see what happened to it. <BR><BR>At this point I'd rather just take out the autolube system and just pre-mix it myself for piece of mind.

Have you thought about buying a push bike.

[lennya12threh]

I think I may just take out the autolube.

In the details I said that even after adding oil there is still little to no smoke while driving and it runs great. It only ran like a bag of shit during the first week, then after I replaced and clean the exhaust system it ran like new. There are no signs of it running with too much oil. If anything it seems like its running with too little 2T in it and the damage seems to be from overheating and not enough 2T.

Also the engine may be senstive to the oil ratio, but not sensitive enough to use a 40:1.5 instead of 40:1 oil ratio and cause bad damage. Maybe some extra smoke and bad performance, and clogged exhaust, but my bike showd no signs of too much oil.

[lennya12threh]

To the last post, I have driven probably 800kms on it with no problems until this, and I drove it hard.

[VocalNeal]

Lenny ,

Sounds like the mixture is too lean. What colour was the top of the piston? Have you done and plug "chops" to check?Also you didn't say if the guy gapped the rings while he was reassembling. Does the bike have a thermostst in the cooling system, asian mechs. usually take this out because they deem it unnecessary but on some engines it screws up the water flow. May not on Kawa but i thought I would ask.

If you go back to premix then you'll have to rejet unless the old carb has needle adjustments. As has been said oil is not fuel so if you add oil you have to add more fuel to get back to correct air/fuel mixture.

My bike runs really good until the sun goes behind a cloud.

Old two stroke humour Edited July 8, 2010 by VocalNeal

[BigBikeBKK]

Ater the piston head got a bit distorted we did notice the water levels in the rad went down alot, as when he drained it it definately wasn't full and from the cap you couldn't see any water. Just a couple days ago it was full of nice green solution so I'm not sure where it went. Maybe it took it's escape route out of that other tank that sometimes drips excess water out if it ets to hot. Either way, checking the water will have to be something I check now every time I get on the bike. My drives are usualy about 40kms each.

Hey like I didn't even like know that this bike is like water cooled. So you think well hey like um maybe you should like try to like figure out like where the nice green coolant solution went?!

[lennya12threh]

Lenny ,

Sounds like the mixture is too lean. What colour was the top of the piston? Have you done and plug "chops" to check?Also you didn't say if the guy gapped the rings while he was reassembling. Does the bike have a thermostst in the cooling system, asian mechs. usually take this out because they deem it unnecessary but on some engines it screws up the water flow. May not on Kawa but i thought I would ask.

If you go back to premix then you'll have to rejet unless the old carb has needle adjustments. As has been said oil is not fuel so if you add oil you have to add more fuel to get back to correct air/fuel mixture.

My bike runs really good until the sun goes behind a cloud.

Old two stroke humour

Hi. I'll get a pic of the old piston up later day. The top was very light coloured and was kind of a mixture of silver and white all over it. I'm not sure what you mean by chops or tapping the rings. What he did when I watched was put in all new rings and applied a grease solution to them all.

Also it does have a temp gauge so that must mean there is a therostat. I believe the bike pretty much stock as I am the second owner and it came in quite good condition.

And whenever I add 2T I always do so after refilling and according to how many litres I put in. Ever since I got the new piston in and I've been adding to the tank about 15-20ml of 2T per litre of nezyne, it seems to be running very good and has all of its power throughout the rpms. It makes all the "dekwans" look.

[KRS1]

make sure you have the correct piston.

the two strokes from kawasaki have two types of pistons - 3 ring and 2 ring. If youhave a 3 ring in a 2 ring application, the bike will lose power the hotter it gets until it eventually seizes.

with all the carbon that was caked up in the exhaust before you cleaned it out, its very likely that the previous owner turned down the autolube system to lower the smoke coming out, a common problem with kawasaki two strokes is a leaking seal in the autolube pump, this problem is hard to detect and most mechanics oversee it, and try rejetting to smaller jet causing the bike to run leaner and hotter.

a way to tell if the autolube seal is screwed is to park the bike for 4-5 days without driving it. If on the sixth day the bike smokes like theres a brush fire, then you know the seal is farked.

So if your bike is running inconsistent, which it is...its very likely you have to readjust your autolube pump, rejet your carb and check your piston type. Stock jetting for an NSR 150 carburetor is 145/42...so use this as a base to check your jet sizes.

its a two stroke, there should be smoke.If there's no smoke, there's a problem.

[thaicbr]

Hi. I'll get a pic of the old piston up later day. The top was very light coloured and was kind of a mixture of silver and white all over it. I'm not sure what you mean by chops or tapping the rings. What he did when I watched was put in all new rings and applied a grease solution to them all.

Also it does have a temp gauge so that must mean there is a therostat. I believe the bike pretty much stock as I am the second owner and it came in quite good condition.

And whenever I add 2T I always do so after refilling and according to how many litres I put in. Ever since I got the new piston in and I've been adding to the tank about 15-20ml of 2T per litre of nezyne, it seems to be running very good and has all of its power throughout the rpms. It makes all the "dekwans" look.

1st it would seem to be running lean from the condition of the piston. 2nd the thermostat does not control the temp guage (a temp guage switch does) and 3rd you should now by now that just because it looks good does not mean its been maintained. a lot of Thais do not believe in maintenence like we do.

( a little story. I know someone that bought a new Honda Jazz. she ran it for 3 years and about 70,000km's before she changed the oil. AND then only because it broke down for an unrelated thing (battery i think) She said no one had told her it needed anything more than fuel. She blamed the dealership.Luckily no major damage (maybe) but hel_l i would hate to buy that car 2nd hand.)

Also Lenny it seems that you are not listening to the advice that you have asked for.

Edited July 8, 2010 by thaicbr

[VocalNeal]

with all the carbon that was caked up in the exhaust before you cleaned it out, its very likely that the previous owner turned down the autolube system to lower the smoke coming out,

KRS,

I think it more likely, as the previous owner was an older guy, he either rode the bike slower and as such after 15 years the whole bike was clogged up or someone turned up the autolube in the belief that more is better.

Whichever way by riding and observing the setting can be monitored and adjusted to suit.

Don't know about Kawa but on some Hondas if the seal in the pump is blown all the 2t oil ends up in the transmission.

Edited July 8, 2010 by VocalNeal

[lennya12threh]

Hi guys, thanks for all the input, and I don't feel that I am not taking advice. Some comments I am just unsure of because my experience and observations while riding the bike contradict it. (mostly being the idea that im flooding the combustion chambre with too much 2T) I am taking it in, and I suppose the next thing I will is check the autolube system for a leak. I do remember when the guy started it up before I bought it it smoked like a mofo so maybe it is this broken seal that has been mentioned. And yes apparetnyl the previous owner was an older guy owned the bike for 15 years and always drove slow, and I swear there was like a 1ft by 1ft pile of shit that came out of the exhaust before I just decided to change it.

After the replies I'm fairly certain that the problem before must have been it was running lean. So for now, me adding 2T is nessesary before I get this figured out, and I don't believe I am adding too much or going to break the engine as I'm adding measured amounts and observing the smoke all the time. Also about the piston, the one that got wrecked was a 2 ring and the one it was replaced with was a 2 ring. I will try and research this model to see if it is a 3ring or 2 ring but I apparently the engine had never been opened before me and the previous owner never had a reason to open it the way he drove, so it was probably completely stock when I got it. It looks stock but looks liek brand new when you wash it.

So, check the autolube system for leaks, check the piston type at stock, and check for a thermostat. Anyone know where the thermostat might be located?

Edited July 8, 2010 by lennya12threh

[Leckyman]

You could also replace the oil pipe from the pump to the inlet for a clear one.

Then you can see if the oil is flowing or if there is an airlock.

[BSJ]

Firstly, sort out your autolube. It may have a stuffed seal that is part of the problem, but you need to check the adjuster to make sure your 2T is being delivered at the correct rate.

Secondly, stop adding oil to the fuel tank! If your adding oil you need to do it in a drum, shake it vigourously and then pour it into the bike tank. What your doing is pouring the oil in and a lot of it is sinking to the bottom of the tank, not mixing properly with the petrol and with a high speed run the oily fuel is pre-igniting like a diesel engine before the piston is at TDC. Any wonder the thing went into melt down!

[lennya12threh]

I always shake the bike back and forth hardly for like 10 seconds before riding every time, can hear the gas in the tank splashing around.

So this isn't sufficient. dam_n.

[BSJ]

Hi Lenny, at a guess the fuel tank on your bike is more like 2 tanks joined at the top....because of the space for the top frame rail. If you fill the tank and add the oil on the side stand most of the oil can go one side and you 'shake the bike back and forth' does bugger all. Soooo, you may have oil rich one side and oil lean the other! Lean is bad too! OK, maybe there is a balance pipe to equalize the fuel level in the tank, but that's only a small tube. Always remember Murphy's Law: If it can go wrong it will. Or is it the other one? "Anything that can go wrong, will go wrong".

[lennya12threh]

But if I shook it in a drum would it eventually split up again if it sat for a day or something?

Also, I heard of some pre-mix formula that would automatically mix itself in, although this is hard to believe.

[lennya12threh]

Something i just read on another bike form.<BR><BR>If I drop some 2T in first before adding the fuel, when the fuel is added the force of the fuel splashing in and current is enough to make them mix together.

[BigBikeBKK]

Something i just read on another bike form.<BR><BR>If I drop some 2T in first before adding the fuel, when the fuel is added the force of the fuel splashing in and current is enough to make them mix together.

&lt;deleted&gt; Lenny how many guys have told you to quit pouring oil in your tank and to fix your dam_n autolube?! Stop pouring oil in your tank and fix the bike dummy!

[lennya12threh]

yea ima take it apart a bit today and check it out, though if there is a leak then it must be entering another part of the bike, as there is never any leakage on the floor where it sits all night

[VocalNeal]

I'm not sure what you mean by chops or tapping the rings.

Lenny, Gapping the rings as the bike is older probably OK what he should have done was to fit the rings in the barrel first a check the gap between the ends with feeler gauges then set them to the correct figure. There is a rough and ready method of culculating the gap but it is a long time ago since I built 2-strokes. The fact that the top of the piston was white seems to confirm the lean mixture thing. This could have been as you were adding oil to the tank but also maybe a partially blocked main jet. To confirm. Find a piece of relatively traffic free road, slightly uphill is best but in BKK!, run the bike wide open for 20-30 seconds in 4th or 5th gear, then simultaneously hit the kill switch, release the throttle and pull in the clutch. Coast to a stop and take out the spark plug and inspect it.

It should look like this. Coffee coulored.

I suspect yours look more like this

The correct way to do all this is to mark the twist grip and do it at different openings but since you seem to travel at relatively high speed wide open is a good start.

Edited July 9, 2010 by VocalNeal

[Kf6vci]

Maybe you should check and adjust the oil pump? On my RD 350 YPVS, fiddling with the pump had a dramatic impact on the amount of blue smoke after starting it cold...

You saying something about red-lining the cold engine makes me woder whether you are abusing the bike needlessly? How about warming it up carefully first?

Which oil are you using? I would recommend 100% synthetic oils like (decades ago) Castrol TTS. it sure makes a difference when it comes to carbon deposits...

The only bike I had which needed mixing was a MZ ETZ 300 sidecar. The ration was between 1:50 and 1: 100 I think. But as others said, make sure the autolube works, don't mess with the fuel tank's content. Maybe give it more oil? Your mechanic can adjust the oil pump!

The RD 350 would be a great bike for Thailand. Haven't seen a single one though Since you like high speed, maybe a bigger 2-stroke bike is what you need?

Ride on,

Chris

[spud1]

Maybe you should check and adjust the oil pump? On my RD 350 YPVS, fiddling with the pump had a dramatic impact on the amount of blue smoke after starting it cold...

You saying something about red-lining the cold engine makes me woder whether you are abusing the bike needlessly? How about warming it up carefully first?

Which oil are you using? I would recommend 100% synthetic oils like (decades ago) Castrol TTS. it sure makes a difference when it comes to carbon deposits...

The only bike I had which needed mixing was a MZ ETZ 300 sidecar. The ration was between 1:50 and 1: 100 I think. But as others said, make sure the autolube works, don't mess with the fuel tank's content. Maybe give it more oil? Your mechanic can adjust the oil pump!

The RD 350 would be a great bike for Thailand. Haven't seen a single one though Since you like high speed, maybe a bigger 2-stroke bike is what you need?

Ride on,

Chris

Would love to have a RD250/350LC here in LOS,if only for nostalgic purposes.When I come into some money,might even have one imported along with a container of crankshafts,pistons and bearings.