Thai Govt Ignores Red Shirts Rights: NHRC

[otherstuff1957]

Cast your mind back five years... Who was the main opponent of groups like the Midnight University? Thaksin & his crew! It's ironic that the very people they are now defending would almost certainly have put them out of business if they had remained in power.

[TallForeigner]

Do we really have to sum up the damages to be higher than the Yellow shirts actions before a red appologist say that perhaps it wasn't a good idea to burn down Central World etc?

And what makes you so sure that the reds burnt down Centralworld? Please show me one single piece of convincing evidence. Since I live just opposite Centralworld I watched the onset of the fire and the fire itself very carefully and I also went down onto the street to observe it from closer. I made many photos. Every single "evidence" that has been given so far supporting the claim that the reds did it can be easily countered by evidence from eyewitnesses on the site. I believe my own eyes, I believe what I heard (the explosions that came from deep within the building) and I made hundreds of photos myself, I screened thousands of other photos and videos from eyewitnesses and based on that I came to my conclusions. I live right in that neighborhood since many years, I loved to be in the Centralworld so I really wanted to know what is going on without relying on any biased media. There are so many hundreds of questions unanswered. After all what I can say is that I don't know who really did it, but what is for certain is that the vandalism that happened on that afternoon (not only by the reds!) was not the cause for the fire that brought this building down. Before I would feel confident enough to claim who really did it I need to see a very careful independent and most importantly professional investigation by a group of people including also well recognised architects, structural engineers, demolition experts, fire experts, bomb experts and forensic scientists.

[philw]

Do we really have to sum up the damages to be higher than the Yellow shirts actions before a red appologist say that perhaps it wasn't a good idea to burn down Central World etc?

And what makes you so sure that the reds burnt down Centralworld? Please show me one single piece of convincing evidence. Since I live just opposite Centralworld I watched the onset of the fire and the fire itself very carefully and I also went down onto the street to observe it from closer. I made many photos. Every single "evidence" that has been given so far supporting the claim that the reds did it can be easily countered by evidence from eyewitnesses on the site. I believe my own eyes, I believe what I heard (the explosions that came from deep within the building) and I made hundreds of photos myself, I screened thousands of other photos and videos from eyewitnesses and based on that I came to my conclusions. I live right in that neighborhood since many years, I loved to be in the Centralworld so I really wanted to know what is going on without relying on any biased media. There are so many hundreds of questions unanswered. After all what I can say is that I don't know who really did it, but what is for certain is that the vandalism that happened on that afternoon (not only by the reds!) was not the cause for the fire that brought this building down. Before I would feel confident enough to claim who really did it I need to see a very careful independent and most importantly professional investigation by a group of people including also well recognised architects, structural engineers, demolition experts, fire experts, bomb experts and forensic scientists.

Another good post.

There are indeed very many unanswered questions.

Sadly I doubt if the necessary professional, scientific and impartial investigations will ever happen.

The "wrong" answers might emerge.

philw

[stepenwolf1958]

I looked for a news item in this forum on the recent arrest of one of Sae Dang's top henchmen; Sawasdipol. Didn't find.

The guy started admitting a bunch of aggressions (bombings, shootings, etc,) in the name of the Reds. But a day later, he's saying he needs time to think things over - realizing he admitted too much. He must have had a visit by a lawyer (maybe one of Thaksin's), who told him to 'shut up' - and told Sawasdipol he doesn't need to spill so many beans, just because he's in custody.

Initially, the guy admitted a whole range of transgressions while he was allied with Thaksin's Red Protectors - a.k.a. Ninjas, or 'men in black' or 'mystery shooters.' The guy was caught in a police sting operation, trying to sell a bunch of weapons and ammo. He's also implicated in beating up family members. It's a big story for Thailand and goes a long way to destroying the myth that the Reds didn't have an integrated faction who's assignment was to clandestinely harm people and property.

I, for one, hope the authorities stick it to the guy, and get him to sing long and loud, about every nefarious incident he knows about. He's going to implicate a lot of people in some serious crimes. Big points for Abhisit's government, while the Reds lose big time! Sawisdipol is the key to shooting down the many big lies perpetrated by Thaksin and the Red leaders - and he's the key to getting some of the heavies put behind bars for a long time.

Excellent post and it highlights that the "shadowy group" stepenwolf refers to are really just a faction of the reds, the Sae Daeng gang.

This assassin, bomber, sniper of the reds could really prove to be their undoing as he's putting a lot of information about them into the public record.

First, I am not saying that these fractions belong to red shirt. You've got the right to personal thoughts but I did not say so.

My message is clear. Nothing seems at first glance may not be so and that is why I said that we should refrain from alignment on one side or another when we comment on here.

The truth is that there is a particular faction, black shirts that are in shadow.

If worth to listen to the voice of the people here, the fraction belonging to someone else, under the control of someone who is not exposed to the public and according to Thais it is a very long time.

If need to say more about what Thais told me, that one is part of establishment now.

But people talk, right?

Once again, in my opinion that black shirts don't belong to red shirt movement but to someone else who is waiting his moment.

So, once again, we should stay calm so we will see who are they and who control them and why.

Regards, Step

[stepenwolf1958]

Before I say anything I would like to remind all of us about big loss for Thai people. Mr. Somkiet who recently passed away was the founder of Midnight University at the University of Chiang Mai.

It was the man who led the organization of self-similar people, the intellectual elite of this country, whose voice in these times is very necessary.

For those foreigners who do not know Midnight University was the voice of healthy sense in this country.

Several times some people tried to stop its work. Someone who didn't want any voice of different thoughts be heard here also tried stop the website, with accusations that unfortunately we hear today so often against the protestors. Mr. Somkiet successfully defended the work of the Midnight University.

They still work today.

Mr. Somkiet successfully predicted all these events with the red shirt protest in his statements about the roots of long term and deep division of Thai society at the time the PAD protest events.

I remember his every single word about what will be in Bangkok if oligarchy and fast money makers don’t find the way to sit and talk. He pointed just 2 groups of influent and powerful people, layers of Thai society which must to find some way to talk before is too late for the country and people.

Those words he said in Chiang Mai popular magazine. He told there it’s not just about color of the shirt. He said those protesters are just used and manipulated by people who are not visible in public.

He is gone about colon cancer and his death is great loss for Thais.

RIP

His death made me to say this.

Absolutely I'm not interested in either red or yellow shirts and that I would advise to all other foreigners who “belong” to one or the other side.

Quite painful is to read some comments here, from people who don’t know many things but commenting like pseudo “specialists” and emotionally taking one side or the other.

This refers to idolater of PAD - yellow shirts and the current government who are showing just absolute antagonism toward the red shirts and Mr.Thaksin.

I have no reason to support Mr.Thaksin, but more then sure is that I have no any reason to say anything good for what the government has done to the people in red shirts and still doing.

But some things are unavoidable and must be said.

Daily statements of this government tell us what is behind of all. Especially statements of its individual members (Mr. Suthep and spokesman of Democrats) are a proof and show the extent of hatred and fear is present among all of them.

Fear of Mr.Thaksin as political opponent and the red shirt as political possible power.

The way the government dispersed and treated the protesters before the attacks, talking about how well the whole situation was calculated on the reaction of same red shirt mass. Obviously there was a very insidious plan. Red shirts are overplayed because they have done and reacted just as it was needed so now Mr. Suthep can call them terrorists and destroying reds as political opponent can continue.

The government has provoked the protesters by cutting the supply lines of the protesters with water and food and that was the beginning of chaos.

Everything that happened later was the principle of domino effect.

Everything that happened later was expected and it is my opinion that the reactions were also planned by the government but only individual members. I think Mr.Abhisit was not the part of obvious plan with tragic consequences. Simply, he is a young, highly educated man who has long lived in Britain so for me is incomprehensible that he could be part of this vicious game against the red shirts. He just was not someone who has everything organized and monitored, but only someone who served over the situation in the formal approval. It is likely that he sees in his ruling coalition has those who have it all organized and almost behind his back but he is under attacks now. It is my assumption that he knows that so he is just waiting for the moment to get rid of those few around him.

To remind all of us Mr. Suthep was in charge for dispersal of red shirt. Mr. Suthep studied Politic Science so he knows very well how to “play the game”. His background, recent scandal with the land plots for rich families is what we should know.

Just to remind you of an important fact which here is avoid by fans and supporters of the yellow shirts or Government.

It is my opinion that foreigners should stay away of all of this, especially as nothing has not been completed but something I have to remind all of us here.

In time of PAD rallies Mr. Samak and Mr. Somchai was PMs. Mr. Somchai very short time but both of them as Prime Minister could use force to stop the PAD rallies. Police were unconditionally loyal to both of them. Why they didn’t use the Police force harder? Why Mr. Somchai resigned? Why he didn’t order to the Police forces or invited Army from South or anywhere else so to order them to use weapons to disperse PAD.

He (they) could not? I will tell you: they didn’t WANT to.

When you are commenting recent bloodshed have this fact on your mind. Any time you accuse red shirts ask yourself who opened fire as first? Who provoked clash and firing? Ask yourself what other color of shirt was shadowy involved in all of this.

THAT color is real danger, not the red or yellow shirts.

Think of why the report of forensics was given just about four people who were killed in the temple, Report said (MP Mr. Abhisit said so) that the shots were fired at them from the ground plane and for the other two there was no report. What happened to them if they were not killed from the ground? Think about so many things what happened out of logic and explaination were more out of logic, before you give any comment here.

Excellent, excellent, excellent !!!!

Thank you.

Much food for thought in your post and I hope that some people can read between your lines a little bit.

Like most things in Thailand, what one sees is not quite what it is.

Philw

It's lengthy - but just as biased as those who he denigrates. To read between the lines of this lengthy post, I can clearly see the bias towards one side.

"The government has provoked the protesters by cutting the supply lines of the protesters with water and food and that was the beginning of chaos.

Everything that happened later was the principle of domino effect."

Anyone that believes this is a fool.

It is my opinion that stepenwolf should stay away from all this. There is no question on which side he falls and to say he's unbiased and then publish a red puff-piece is ridiculous.

Yes, it is legthy and worthy, depends of your point of view, depends on how much do you love Thailand and its people, depend on your education but also intelligence and ability to understand what was the point.

One thing is certain i am not biased and i said that very clear in my OP. Unless you would call me a liar? I would not recommend you that.

Let me back to the point.

Obviously you are follower of yellows but i think it's your right. If you are I will not comment about your opinion by impolite words or to try to disqualify you or to degrade your understanding the matter.

Could be that you are not a follower of yellows or that you are not idolater of Mr.Mark(ed). But it is obvious that you dislike Mr. Thaksin and only you know the reason and it's you privacy and i will not go in.

But you are just an example what i was talking about. We should not be emotional about one side or another.

I've studied Thai culture for some 2 years, before i settled here and as i love them i made my choice about my place to live and it is Thailand but what i learned is the fact that still i don't know much about their way. That way i see all of recent bloodshed. Every thing is possible and i don't have any reason to take a side.

That was my point.

[Siripon]

Do we really have to sum up the damages to be higher than the Yellow shirts actions before a red appologist say that perhaps it wasn't a good idea to burn down Central World etc?

And what makes you so sure that the reds burnt down Centralworld? Please show me one single piece of convincing evidence. Since I live just opposite Centralworld I watched the onset of the fire and the fire itself very carefully and I also went down onto the street to observe it from closer. I made many photos. Every single "evidence" that has been given so far supporting the claim that the reds did it can be easily countered by evidence from eyewitnesses on the site. I believe my own eyes, I believe what I heard (the explosions that came from deep within the building) and I made hundreds of photos myself, I screened thousands of other photos and videos from eyewitnesses and based on that I came to my conclusions. I live right in that neighborhood since many years, I loved to be in the Centralworld so I really wanted to know what is going on without relying on any biased media. There are so many hundreds of questions unanswered. After all what I can say is that I don't know who really did it, but what is for certain is that the vandalism that happened on that afternoon (not only by the reds!) was not the cause for the fire that brought this building down. Before I would feel confident enough to claim who really did it I need to see a very careful independent and most importantly professional investigation by a group of people including also well recognised architects, structural engineers, demolition experts, fire experts, bomb experts and forensic scientists.

Another good post.

There are indeed very many unanswered questions.

Sadly I doubt if the necessary professional, scientific and impartial investigations will ever happen.

The "wrong" answers might emerge.

philw

The building wasn't brought down, it didn't collapse, the explosions you heard must have been the ones in the WTC in New York in 2001.

Several red shirts were arrested at the scene and will be charged with arson.

Nattawut told the red shirts to burn the buildings.

Arisaman told the red shirts to bring a bottle to Bangkok and buy the petrol in Bangkok.

Jatupon encouraged the red shirts to loot the malls.

Red shirts burnt the provincial halls in Ubon and Udon, again many arrests were made.

Seh Daeng openly boasted about his connections and frequent visits to Thaksin and now with the arrest of Supachai the ugly violent side to the red protests is being more and more exposed, no wonder red apologists feel nervous.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Siripon

[ThaksinKharma]

The truth is that there is a particular faction, black shirts that are in shadow.

If worth to listen to the voice of the people here

In listening to one of the people here, Surachai, I hear

firing M-79 grenades at a police apartment building close to the Lumpini police station and at the station itself during the red-shirt riots in May.

also took part in the gun attack on a police checkpoint at Saladaeng Intersection which killed two policemen.

Major-General Khattiya Sawasdipol engineered and orchestrated both attacks

and I hear further

He has admitted to automatic gunfire into the Dusit Thani

admitted to firing M-79 grenades on several occasions towards People's Alliance for Democracy protesters during their occupation of the Government House compound two years ago

and I also hear

he was one of the "men in black" who launched M79 grenades

Major-General Khattiya took him and other "men in black" to undergo weapons and tactical training

[ThaksinKharma]

The building wasn't brought down, it didn't collapse, the explosions you heard must have been the ones in the WTC in New York in 2001.

Several red shirts were arrested at the scene and will be charged with arson.

Nattawut told the red shirts to burn the buildings.

Arisaman told the red shirts to bring a bottle to Bangkok and buy the petrol in Bangkok.

Jatupon encouraged the red shirts to loot the malls.

Red shirts burnt the provincial halls in Ubon and Udon, again many arrests were made.

Seh Daeng openly boasted about his connections and frequent visits to Thaksin and now with the arrest of Supachai the ugly violent side to the red protests is being more and more exposed, no wonder red apologists feel nervous.

Always good to hear these reality check posts.

Thank you.

[stepenwolf1958]

Do we really have to sum up the damages to be higher than the Yellow shirts actions before a red appologist say that perhaps it wasn't a good idea to burn down Central World etc?

And what makes you so sure that the reds burnt down Centralworld? Please show me one single piece of convincing evidence. Since I live just opposite Centralworld I watched the onset of the fire and the fire itself very carefully and I also went down onto the street to observe it from closer. I made many photos. Every single "evidence" that has been given so far supporting the claim that the reds did it can be easily countered by evidence from eyewitnesses on the site. I believe my own eyes, I believe what I heard (the explosions that came from deep within the building) and I made hundreds of photos myself, I screened thousands of other photos and videos from eyewitnesses and based on that I came to my conclusions. I live right in that neighborhood since many years, I loved to be in the Centralworld so I really wanted to know what is going on without relying on any biased media. There are so many hundreds of questions unanswered. After all what I can say is that I don't know who really did it, but what is for certain is that the vandalism that happened on that afternoon (not only by the reds!) was not the cause for the fire that brought this building down. Before I would feel confident enough to claim who really did it I need to see a very careful independent and most importantly professional investigation by a group of people including also well recognised architects, structural engineers, demolition experts, fire experts, bomb experts and forensic scientists.

Another good post.

There are indeed very many unanswered questions.

Sadly I doubt if the necessary professional, scientific and impartial investigations will ever happen.

The "wrong" answers might emerge.

philw

The building wasn't brought down, it didn't collapse, the explosions you heard must have been the ones in the WTC in New York in 2001.

Several red shirts were arrested at the scene and will be charged with arson.

Nattawut told the red shirts to burn the buildings.

Arisaman told the red shirts to bring a bottle to Bangkok and buy the petrol in Bangkok.

Jatupon encouraged the red shirts to loot the malls.

Red shirts burnt the provincial halls in Ubon and Udon, again many arrests were made.

Seh Daeng openly boasted about his connections and frequent visits to Thaksin and now with the arrest of Supachai the ugly violent side to the red protests is being more and more exposed, no wonder red apologists feel nervous.

Well done mate, indeed! Now, all is clear, right?

This should to be your honest contribute to help here to anyone who has had any doubts about the claims that all burnings, looting and arsoning were done by people in red shirts and under the direct command of Nathawut, Jatuporn and Arisaman. Right? Is that your point?

Well...

After these so precisely addressed charges from your side, I think it is now clear to everyone what is what in all this chaos.

But in your post something is missing. Some proof.

However, your accusations and allegations need to gain credibility so you will have to say sources where you picked up all this?

If you care about your claims, if you care that your words are taken seriously, you will have to give some proof to us here.

How is it possible that you know what they ordered (sic!) and not any of us do not know for that?

What sources you are using to claim these things and I will ask you were that claimed publicly somewhere?

I probably read the wrong newspaper as I didn’t see any of those your accusations.

Does any one here know that somewhere was published?

So you are asked to point here your sources even if you are involved somehow in prosecuting by your connections in establishment, maybe.

Newspapers, TV, or anything else just name it because we would like to be convinced that your assertions are true (in what I don’t believe, frankly)

I only hope that the source of your information’s is not your Thai girlfriend or wife who is fascinated by PM’s appearance or a person at the market.

I also hope that you are not Thai nationality, and that these untruths and these rants are not your duty, job and how you earn for living.

When you claim your sources, if they are credible and authoritative, I’m willing to apologize for these statements that you are saying untruths.

Regards, Step

[brahmburgers]

Do we really have to sum up the damages to be higher than the Yellow shirts actions before a red appologist say that perhaps it wasn't a good idea to burn down Central World etc?

And what makes you so sure that the reds burnt down Centralworld?

Another good post. There are indeed very many unanswered questions. Sadly I doubt if the necessary professional, scientific and impartial investigations will ever happen. The "wrong" answers might emerge. philw

The building wasn't brought down, it didn't collapse, the explosions you heard must have been the ones in the WTC in New York in 2001.

Several red shirts were arrested at the scene and will be charged with arson.

Nattawut told the red shirts to burn the buildings.

Arisaman told the red shirts to bring a bottle to Bangkok and buy the petrol in Bangkok.

Jatupon encouraged the red shirts to loot the malls.

Red shirts burnt the provincial halls in Ubon and Udon, again many arrests were made.

Seh Daeng openly boasted about his connections and frequent visits to Thaksin and now with the arrest of Supachai the ugly violent side to the red protests is being more and more exposed, no wonder red apologists feel nervous.

If it walks, looks and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. There were Reds running around that area before and during the torching of Central World. Just as big a question: Who stopped fire fighters from getting to the scene? Those punks should have been shot at the scene. Who else but Reds and their supporters torched downtown and kept firefighters and emergency crews away? The same folks who had been barricading large sections of Bkk for weeks. The same folks who harbored 'protectors' who fired grenades and bullets carelessly around their compound - killing and injuring many.

Edited July 18, 2010 by brahmburgers

[brahmburgers]

Wonder if hhey are going to ask about the human rights of those who lost their bussiness, jobs and livlihoods because of the red shirts "peaceful" rally or the human rights of those who were injured by grenades or those who were in the TV3 building when it was set on fire, etc etc

No more than the human rights of those who lost their business, jobs and livelihood because of the yellow shirts "peaceful" rally, occupation and damage to the gov. building and airports or the human rights of those injured and killed during their rampage. How soon we forget.

Apples and oranges. The peripheral problems caused by Yellow Shirt demonstrations pale in comparison to the problems caused by the Red Shirt fracases in April '09 and April '10. The only people who died in the Yellow demonstrations were a few Yellows killed by grenades launched by Red supporters (one the stories currently unfolding by the recent arrest of Seh Daeng's buddy). To the uninformed, the above argument sounds fair, but to those of us who follow current events in Thailand, it's Red apologist' hot air accompanied by halitosis.

[ThaksinKharma]

The building wasn't brought down, it didn't collapse, the explosions you heard must have been the ones in the WTC in New York in 2001.

Several red shirts were arrested at the scene and will be charged with arson.

Nattawut told the red shirts to burn the buildings.

Arisaman told the red shirts to bring a bottle to Bangkok and buy the petrol in Bangkok.

Jatupon encouraged the red shirts to loot the malls.

Red shirts burnt the provincial halls in Ubon and Udon, again many arrests were made.

Seh Daeng openly boasted about his connections and frequent visits to Thaksin and now with the arrest of Supachai the ugly violent side to the red protests is being more and more exposed, no wonder red apologists feel nervous.

But in your post something is missing. Some proof.

However, your accusations and allegations need to gain credibility so you will have to say sources where you picked up all this?

If you care about your claims, if you care that your words are taken seriously, you will have to give some proof to us here.

Will words from their own red mouths suffice?

How is it possible that you know what they ordered (sic!) and not any of us do not know for that?

What sources you are using to claim these things and I will ask you were that claimed publicly somewhere?

The red words have been published for months by countless sources and most who read here or elsewhere know about them.

I probably read the wrong newspaper as I didn’t see any of those your accusations.

Not sure which one you read, but apparently it is the "wrong" one and most of us have read about the above aplenty.

[philw]

Wonder if hhey are going to ask about the human rights of those who lost their bussiness, jobs and livlihoods because of the red shirts "peaceful" rally or the human rights of those who were injured by grenades or those who were in the TV3 building when it was set on fire, etc etc

No more than the human rights of those who lost their business, jobs and livelihood because of the yellow shirts "peaceful" rally, occupation and damage to the gov. building and airports or the human rights of those injured and killed during their rampage. How soon we forget.

Apples and oranges. The peripheral problems caused by Yellow Shirt demonstrations pale in comparison to the problems caused by the Red Shirt fracases in April '09 and April '10. The only people who died in the Yellow demonstrations were a few Yellows killed by grenades launched by Red supporters (one the stories currently unfolding by the recent arrest of Seh Daeng's buddy). To the uninformed, the above argument sounds fair, but to those of us who follow current events in Thailand, it's Red apologist' hot air accompanied by halitosis.

"To the uninformed, the above argument sounds fair, but to those of us who follow current events in Thailand, it's Red apologist' hot air accompanied by halitosis."

Why do you need to be so insulting of a divergent opinion ??

I also follow current affairs in Thailand.

I am neither uninformed, nor a red apologist and even though i smoke, drink and eat Thai food, my wife says I don't have halitosis.......

In any case, what's that got to do with an opinion or sincere opinion ???

philw

Edited July 18, 2010 by philw

[Siam Simon]

Wonder if hhey are going to ask about the human rights of those who lost their bussiness, jobs and livlihoods because of the red shirts "peaceful" rally or the human rights of those who were injured by grenades or those who were in the TV3 building when it was set on fire, etc etc

No more than the human rights of those who lost their business, jobs and livelihood because of the yellow shirts "peaceful" rally, occupation and damage to the gov. building and airports or the human rights of those injured and killed during their rampage. How soon we forget.

Apples and oranges. The peripheral problems caused by Yellow Shirt demonstrations pale in comparison to the problems caused by the Red Shirt fracases in April '09 and April '10. The only people who died in the Yellow demonstrations were a few Yellows killed by grenades launched by Red supporters (one the stories currently unfolding by the recent arrest of Seh Daeng's buddy). To the uninformed, the above argument sounds fair, but to those of us who follow current events in Thailand, it's Red apologist' hot air accompanied by halitosis.

"To the uninformed, the above argument sounds fair, but to those of us who follow current events in Thailand, it's Red apologist' hot air accompanied by halitosis."

Why do you need to be so insulting of a divergent opinion ??

I also follow current affairs in Thailand.

I am neither uninformed, nor a red apologist and even though i smoke, drink and eat Thai food, my wife says I don't have halitosis.......

In any case, what's that got to do with an opinion or sincere opinion ???

philw

Silly you, Phil. You failed to notice that the forum propagandists don't do civilised debate. Btw, have you received a request for a meet up from that threatening weirdo 'This Is Madness' yet?

[Siam Simon]

they should also arrest Thaksins missus first for the land scandal deal, lets try to stick to the point here and not in the past.

They already arrested her for the land scandal case and at trial, she was found not guilty.

She was, however, found guilty of tax evasion in another case involving hundreds of millions of baht that she deprived the people of Thailand of enjoying its benefits had it been paid into the National Treasury.

This conviction and a subsequent 3 year prison term was handed down on July 21, 2008. She was released on bail after her conviction and remains free to this day (along with her brother on the left and her secretary on the right who were also found guilty and given prison sentences). Until such time that she enters prison, this "past" event is very much "current".

btw, the title of the video derives from Thaksin's daughter, Paethongtan, reaction to the verdict being read out for her mother and uncle and occurs at 00:40 of the video.

Looks like they got bored with banning you. As if there weren't enough propagandists, you have to be back in multiples.

[pedro01]

Before I say anything I would like to remind all of us about big loss for Thai people. Mr. Somkiet who recently passed away was the founder of Midnight University at the University of Chiang Mai.

It was the man who led the organization of self-similar people, the intellectual elite of this country, whose voice in these times is very necessary.

For those foreigners who do not know Midnight University was the voice of healthy sense in this country.

Several times some people tried to stop its work. Someone who didn't want any voice of different thoughts be heard here also tried stop the website, with accusations that unfortunately we hear today so often against the protestors. Mr. Somkiet successfully defended the work of the Midnight University.

They still work today.

Mr. Somkiet successfully predicted all these events with the red shirt protest in his statements about the roots of long term and deep division of Thai society at the time the PAD protest events.

I remember his every single word about what will be in Bangkok if oligarchy and fast money makers don’t find the way to sit and talk. He pointed just 2 groups of influent and powerful people, layers of Thai society which must to find some way to talk before is too late for the country and people.

Those words he said in Chiang Mai popular magazine. He told there it’s not just about color of the shirt. He said those protesters are just used and manipulated by people who are not visible in public.

He is gone about colon cancer and his death is great loss for Thais.

RIP

His death made me to say this.

Absolutely I'm not interested in either red or yellow shirts and that I would advise to all other foreigners who “belong” to one or the other side.

Quite painful is to read some comments here, from people who don’t know many things but commenting like pseudo “specialists” and emotionally taking one side or the other.

This refers to idolater of PAD - yellow shirts and the current government who are showing just absolute antagonism toward the red shirts and Mr.Thaksin.

I have no reason to support Mr.Thaksin, but more then sure is that I have no any reason to say anything good for what the government has done to the people in red shirts and still doing.

But some things are unavoidable and must be said.

Daily statements of this government tell us what is behind of all. Especially statements of its individual members (Mr. Suthep and spokesman of Democrats) are a proof and show the extent of hatred and fear is present among all of them.

Fear of Mr.Thaksin as political opponent and the red shirt as political possible power.

The way the government dispersed and treated the protesters before the attacks, talking about how well the whole situation was calculated on the reaction of same red shirt mass. Obviously there was a very insidious plan. Red shirts are overplayed because they have done and reacted just as it was needed so now Mr. Suthep can call them terrorists and destroying reds as political opponent can continue.

The government has provoked the protesters by cutting the supply lines of the protesters with water and food and that was the beginning of chaos.

Everything that happened later was the principle of domino effect.

Everything that happened later was expected and it is my opinion that the reactions were also planned by the government but only individual members. I think Mr.Abhisit was not the part of obvious plan with tragic consequences. Simply, he is a young, highly educated man who has long lived in Britain so for me is incomprehensible that he could be part of this vicious game against the red shirts. He just was not someone who has everything organized and monitored, but only someone who served over the situation in the formal approval. It is likely that he sees in his ruling coalition has those who have it all organized and almost behind his back but he is under attacks now. It is my assumption that he knows that so he is just waiting for the moment to get rid of those few around him.

To remind all of us Mr. Suthep was in charge for dispersal of red shirt. Mr. Suthep studied Politic Science so he knows very well how to “play the game”. His background, recent scandal with the land plots for rich families is what we should know.

Just to remind you of an important fact which here is avoid by fans and supporters of the yellow shirts or Government.

It is my opinion that foreigners should stay away of all of this, especially as nothing has not been completed but something I have to remind all of us here.

In time of PAD rallies Mr. Samak and Mr. Somchai was PMs. Mr. Somchai very short time but both of them as Prime Minister could use force to stop the PAD rallies. Police were unconditionally loyal to both of them. Why they didn’t use the Police force harder? Why Mr. Somchai resigned? Why he didn’t order to the Police forces or invited Army from South or anywhere else so to order them to use weapons to disperse PAD.

He (they) could not? I will tell you: they didn’t WANT to.

When you are commenting recent bloodshed have this fact on your mind. Any time you accuse red shirts ask yourself who opened fire as first? Who provoked clash and firing? Ask yourself what other color of shirt was shadowy involved in all of this.

THAT color is real danger, not the red or yellow shirts.

Think of why the report of forensics was given just about four people who were killed in the temple, Report said (MP Mr. Abhisit said so) that the shots were fired at them from the ground plane and for the other two there was no report. What happened to them if they were not killed from the ground? Think about so many things what happened out of logic and explaination were more out of logic, before you give any comment here.

Excellent, excellent, excellent !!!!

Thank you.

Much food for thought in your post and I hope that some people can read between your lines a little bit.

Like most things in Thailand, what one sees is not quite what it is.

Philw

It's lengthy - but just as biased as those who he denigrates. To read between the lines of this lengthy post, I can clearly see the bias towards one side.

"The government has provoked the protesters by cutting the supply lines of the protesters with water and food and that was the beginning of chaos.

Everything that happened later was the principle of domino effect."

Anyone that believes this is a fool.

It is my opinion that stepenwolf should stay away from all this. There is no question on which side he falls and to say he's unbiased and then publish a red puff-piece is ridiculous.

Yes, it is legthy and worthy, depends of your point of view, depends on how much do you love Thailand and its people, depend on your education but also intelligence and ability to understand what was the point.

One thing is certain i am not biased and i said that very clear in my OP. Unless you would call me a liar? I would not recommend you that.

Let me back to the point.

Obviously you are follower of yellows but i think it's your right. If you are I will not comment about your opinion by impolite words or to try to disqualify you or to degrade your understanding the matter.

Could be that you are not a follower of yellows or that you are not idolater of Mr.Mark(ed). But it is obvious that you dislike Mr. Thaksin and only you know the reason and it's you privacy and i will not go in.

But you are just an example what i was talking about. We should not be emotional about one side or another.

I've studied Thai culture for some 2 years, before i settled here and as i love them i made my choice about my place to live and it is Thailand but what i learned is the fact that still i don't know much about their way. That way i see all of recent bloodshed. Every thing is possible and i don't have any reason to take a side.

That was my point.

So - let me get this right....

By disagreeing with you I am

- a yellow shirt

- unintelligent

- A Thaksin hater - for reasons you know but won't divilge here

Furthermore - if I called you a liar, then bad things will happen, apparently.

Your post was a pro-red post. Your assertion that the government provoked the reds into action is blatant pro-red propoganda. You ignore all of the actions of provocation by the reds that occured in the preceeding months.

The red shirts were like a bunch of kids poking a hornets nest with a stick. The government never reacted the way they wanted. It was a red shirt leader that sent people to a narrow alleyway, ideal for an ambush (aka Khao San Road) into which the army followed. Even then, the army did not overreact. We all saw the acts of provocation by the reds but neither the government or the army reacted the way they wanted, which was unusual for Thailand given its history. In fact, a lor of people were calling the government lame ducks.

The idea that there was a 'domino' affect when the govt blockaded the reds illegal occupation of a city centre and that anything that happened thereafter (e.g. setting fire to buildings with people inside) was the govenrments fault is the biggest case of 'pass the buck' I have seen for a long time.

As for studying Thai Culture for 2 years... well - I'm very happy for you indeed but the fact is you obviously feel the need to back up your posts with a show of your 'formal education' on the matter. In fact, attempts to show yourself as more educated will in fact only serve to do the opposite.

Edited July 18, 2010 by pedro01

[Siripon]

[

Well done mate, indeed! Now, all is clear, right?

This should to be your honest contribute to help here to anyone who has had any doubts about the claims that all burnings, looting and arsoning were done by people in red shirts and under the direct command of Nathawut, Jatuporn and Arisaman. Right? Is that your point?

Well...

After these so precisely addressed charges from your side, I think it is now clear to everyone what is what in all this chaos.

But in your post something is missing. Some proof.

However, your accusations and allegations need to gain credibility so you will have to say sources where you picked up all this?

If you care about your claims, if you care that your words are taken seriously, you will have to give some proof to us here.

How is it possible that you know what they ordered (sic!) and not any of us do not know for that?

What sources you are using to claim these things and I will ask you were that claimed publicly somewhere?

I probably read the wrong newspaper as I didn’t see any of those your accusations.

Does any one here know that somewhere was published?

So you are asked to point here your sources even if you are involved somehow in prosecuting by your connections in establishment, maybe.

Newspapers, TV, or anything else just name it because we would like to be convinced that your assertions are true (in what I don’t believe, frankly)

I only hope that the source of your information’s is not your Thai girlfriend or wife who is fascinated by PM’s appearance or a person at the market.

I also hope that you are not Thai nationality, and that these untruths and these rants are not your duty, job and how you earn for living.

When you claim your sources, if they are credible and authoritative, I’m willing to apologize for these statements that you are saying untruths.

Regards, Step

It's all on film, Nattawut on stage telling the reds to burn eveything and he promised to take responsibility.

Arisaman urging Khon Kaen reds tocome to Bangkok to commit arson.

Jatupon rambling on on stage how when the army will move in on the protest site, the reds will panic and loot everything.

If you can understand Thai please watch these videos, they're probably still on Youtube.

The red shirts arrested for arson will be in court before long. if you watch Thai news you would have seen all this, and no they're not fake reds, many of those arrested have a long history with the reds.

My home town is Ban Pai, about 50 km from Khon Kaen so I know the reds well.

So much of the protest was about money, local pick-up owners paid to take protesters to Bangkok, it was a farce sometimes, if paid in full before, they sometimes only got as far as Korat before turning back for home!

[brahmburgers]

In regards to the above post.

Few know precisely who was paid, and how much, and for how long - to support the various Red factions. However, there are many indications that such payments and support were given - and given in big ways (possibly a billion dollars in several weeks, though that too remains to be proven). It's like US marshals trying to bust the mafia. The mafia (in the US and elsewhere) move money around in all sorts of illegal ways. Obviously, they're adept at doing so, and take great precautions in hiding their tracks. Thaksin, his family and friends are not much different. They channel tons of money clandestinely, and do everything they can to hide such transactions. Now it's up to gov't authorities to try and untangle the gordian knots of intrigue. In the bigger picture: the Shinawatra family has been saddling the Thai government with such legal/investigative wranglings for years - and it will continue. Have you ever thought what those millions of bureaucratic hours (and baht) of gov't efforts could be put towards, if not having to be dedicated to investigating/prosecuting the ever-corrupt Shinawatres? Perhaps a park for Bangkok, or cleaning up beaches in the south?

So, to say to a T.Visa poster: "there you see - you can't provide any solid proof that Thaksin paid multi millions of baht to specific Red leaders to try and bring down the Thai government." .....It's somewhat true. None of us can offer ironclad proof one way or the other at this time. However, the appearance of impropriety is immense, and Thai authorities are working diligently to try to get to the truth. The recent arrest, and subsequent squealing of Sae Daeng's fellow arsonist/black-red shirt is a BIG STEP toward bringing justice to bear on what's really been happening in the past couple years. Heads should roll.

reason for edit: changed 'billion baht' to 'billion dollars'

Edited July 19, 2010 by brahmburgers

[TallForeigner]

If it walks, looks and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. There were Reds running around that area before and during the torching of Central World. Just as big a question: Who stopped fire fighters from getting to the scene? Those punks should have been shot at the scene. Who else but Reds and their supporters torched downtown and kept firefighters and emergency crews away? The same folks who had been barricading large sections of Bkk for weeks. The same folks who harbored 'protectors' who fired grenades and bullets carelessly around their compound - killing and injuring many.

Wow, your silly duck is the kind of arguments that make you believe such an important thing? You must be of a very simple mind, really. No one denies that the reds were running around Centralworld. But there were several other gangs running around too on that afternoon. Do you know who they were? Do you know what they were doing? Have you got evidence for your claims? Do you really still believe that the little krating daeng flasks with petrol and a few tires brought that building down? Pathetic... If you find someone who can throw such a thing from the street through the security glass of the windows up on the 8th floor and start a big fire up there even though the sprinklers were running, I might have a second thought...

I didn't see anyone coming out of the building before the massive explosions that started the first fires from the inside. I heard and felt the explosions and I saw the orange "flash" shining through the windows from the explosion on the 8th floor; that was not a dream. This only indicates that this was planned and prepared well in advance; the first massive explosions happened already at 13.41; just a few minutes after the redshirt leaders gave up on stage. I know this time exactly because I was giving a radio interview while watching the scene in front of Centralworld just at that time and the first explosion can be heard in the interview.

By the way..yes, the sprinklers were running and I have many photos that show lot's of water flowing out of the ground floor of Centralworld. when the fire started. There was so much water coming out of Centralword that the part of Rama I Rd. facing the ZEN building was completely flooded. There are many photos and video clips showing just that.

Now the big question: Why did the firefighters do nothing to stop the fire before it went out of control?

I have not seen one "black terrorist" on Rajdamri on that afternoon; there was not shot fired on Rajdamri in front of Centralworld. I saw 4 firetrucks including a grey/brown army firetruck on standby between the Intercontinetal Hotel and President Place. I saw many soldiers walking freely on Rajdamri Road even in the early afternoon when the fire could still have been brought under control. How comes these soldiers were walking so freely around Rajdamri without taking cover if there were terrorists shooting on Rajdamri? How comes that these many soldiers who were patrolling on Rajdamri were not able to protect firetrucks? Didn't look as if they were even trying. If they would have wanted to do so they would have been able. How comes that the government, CRES and the army is claiming that they were not going further into Rajprasong than Siam, Rajdamri and Chitlom BTS stations and Pratunam intersection when there are many photos that show soldiers on Rajdamri, in front of Centralworld and in front of the stage and on it during the afternoon? Many international journalists and press and curios residents were also walking down there on the afternoon. Yes, I really don't know who told the firefightersto not do their jobs.

Now the "evidence" of Nattawut and Arisaman giving some speeches several months ago. Nattawut was talking to a crowd of Redshirts months ago - never on Rajparasong - that IF the army is coming to shoot us, then we will burn everything down. That's a rhetoric threat; nothing more, nothing less. How many rhetoric threats have been made by other groups anywhere in the world. How many rhetoric saberrattling do you hear even by governments. If every single one of such rhetoric threats would have led to the actual realization of the threat then mankind would have long been extinguished. A rhetoric threat is no evidence at all.

Arisaman was talking months ago to people about bringing krating daeng flask filled with petrol to Bangkok. Some listened, but that's still no evidence to the question who finally brought Centralworld down. It's not possible to start such a massive fire that leads to the collapse of a modern building with these little flasks thrown from the outside against a lot of security glass. It's no evidence to help solving the question of who started the big fires and explosions inside and within the 8th floor.

Let's look at a speach that is much more actual and relevant. Even on May 13 Jatuporn gave a speech on stage in which he urged all Redshirts not to burn anything down before they leave; "Bangkok is our city, we are all Thai citizen, we don't burn our house!" Unfortunately the non-censored media in Thailand is not publishing such speeches.

Taking a truly neutral stance and just believing what I saw, felt, smelled and heard with my own eyes my answer can only be that we don't know what really happened at Centralworld. There is no convincing evidence that proves that the redshirts did it; all evidence that people showed me can be countered and there is so much evidence that puts the "official version" into serious doubts.

I will not argue on this forum any longer about what really happened there; what I witnessed myself and the memories, live interviews, photos and videos I have got should not be distorted and questioned by people that just read some biased media. If someone is really interested and has got convincing firsthand evidence and proofs that can complete the puzzle please send me a private message. Maybe we could meet and exchange some experiences and evidence.

[philw]

"To the uninformed, the above argument sounds fair, but to those of us who follow current events in Thailand, it's Red apologist' hot air accompanied by halitosis."

Why do you need to be so insulting of a divergent opinion ??

I also follow current affairs in Thailand.

I am neither uninformed, nor a red apologist and even though i smoke, drink and eat Thai food, my wife says I don't have halitosis.......

In any case, what's that got to do with an opinion or sincere opinion ???

philw

Silly you, Phil. You failed to notice that the forum propagandists don't do civilised debate. Btw, have you received a request for a meet up from that threatening weirdo 'This Is Madness' yet?

No contact from "this is madness" yet, however, immediately after an exchange with one prominent poster details of my divorce and business difficulties were posted on another unrelated thread.

Could have been coincidence but I think that unlikely and thankfully the more lurid bits were quickly removed by a moderator.

All rather ugly though.

philw

[Rucharee]

If it walks, looks and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. There were Reds running around that area before and during the torching of Central World. Just as big a question: Who stopped fire fighters from getting to the scene? Those punks should have been shot at the scene. Who else but Reds and their supporters torched downtown and kept firefighters and emergency crews away? The same folks who had been barricading large sections of Bkk for weeks. The same folks who harbored 'protectors' who fired grenades and bullets carelessly around their compound - killing and injuring many.

Wow, your silly duck is the kind of arguments that make you believe such an important thing? You must be of a very simple mind, really. No one denies that the reds were running around Centralworld. But there were several other gangs running around too on that afternoon. Do you know who they were? Do you know what they were doing? Have you got evidence for your claims? Do you really still believe that the little krating daeng flasks with petrol and a few tires brought that building down? Pathetic... If you find someone who can throw such a thing from the street through the security glass of the windows up on the 8th floor and start a big fire up there even though the sprinklers were running, I might have a second thought...

I didn't see anyone coming out of the building before the massive explosions that started the first fires from the inside. I heard and felt the explosions and I saw the orange "flash" shining through the windows from the explosion on the 8th floor; that was not a dream. This only indicates that this was planned and prepared well in advance; the first massive explosions happened already at 13.41; just a few minutes after the redshirt leaders gave up on stage. I know this time exactly because I was giving a radio interview while watching the scene in front of Centralworld just at that time and the first explosion can be heard in the interview.

By the way..yes, the sprinklers were running and I have many photos that show lot's of water flowing out of the ground floor of Centralworld. when the fire started. There was so much water coming out of Centralword that the part of Rama I Rd. facing the ZEN building was completely flooded. There are many photos and video clips showing just that.

Now the big question: Why did the firefighters do nothing to stop the fire before it went out of control?

I have not seen one "black terrorist" on Rajdamri on that afternoon; there was not shot fired on Rajdamri in front of Centralworld. I saw 4 firetrucks including a grey/brown army firetruck on standby between the Intercontinetal Hotel and President Place. I saw many soldiers walking freely on Rajdamri Road even in the early afternoon when the fire could still have been brought under control. How comes these soldiers were walking so freely around Rajdamri without taking cover if there were terrorists shooting on Rajdamri? How comes that these many soldiers who were patrolling on Rajdamri were not able to protect firetrucks? Didn't look as if they were even trying. If they would have wanted to do so they would have been able. How comes that the government, CRES and the army is claiming that they were not going further into Rajprasong than Siam, Rajdamri and Chitlom BTS stations and Pratunam intersection when there are many photos that show soldiers on Rajdamri, in front of Centralworld and in front of the stage and on it during the afternoon? Many international journalists and press and curios residents were also walking down there on the afternoon. Yes, I really don't know who told the firefightersto not do their jobs.

Now the "evidence" of Nattawut and Arisaman giving some speeches several months ago. Nattawut was talking to a crowd of Redshirts months ago - never on Rajparasong - that IF the army is coming to shoot us, then we will burn everything down. That's a rhetoric threat; nothing more, nothing less. How many rhetoric threats have been made by other groups anywhere in the world. How many rhetoric saberrattling do you hear even by governments. If every single one of such rhetoric threats would have led to the actual realization of the threat then mankind would have long been extinguished. A rhetoric threat is no evidence at all.

Arisaman was talking months ago to people about bringing krating daeng flask filled with petrol to Bangkok. Some listened, but that's still no evidence to the question who finally brought Centralworld down. It's not possible to start such a massive fire that leads to the collapse of a modern building with these little flasks thrown from the outside against a lot of security glass. It's no evidence to help solving the question of who started the big fires and explosions inside and within the 8th floor.

Let's look at a speach that is much more actual and relevant. Even on May 13 Jatuporn gave a speech on stage in which he urged all Redshirts not to burn anything down before they leave; "Bangkok is our city, we are all Thai citizen, we don't burn our house!" Unfortunately the non-censored media in Thailand is not publishing such speeches.

Taking a truly neutral stance and just believing what I saw, felt, smelled and heard with my own eyes my answer can only be that we don't know what really happened at Centralworld. There is no convincing evidence that proves that the redshirts did it; all evidence that people showed me can be countered and there is so much evidence that puts the "official version" into serious doubts.

I will not argue on this forum any longer about what really happened there; what I witnessed myself and the memories, live interviews, photos and videos I have got should not be distorted and questioned by people that just read some biased media. If someone is really interested and has got convincing firsthand evidence and proofs that can complete the puzzle please send me a private message. Maybe we could meet and exchange some experiences and evidence.

It is OK to be be "silly duck".

But please don't be a "sick duck".

[Siam Simon]

Why do you need to be so insulting of a divergent opinion ??

I also follow current affairs in Thailand.

I am neither uninformed, nor a red apologist and even though i smoke, drink and eat Thai food, my wife says I don't have halitosis.......

In any case, what's that got to do with an opinion or sincere opinion ???

philw

No contact from "this is madness" yet, however, immediately after an exchange with one prominent poster details of my divorce and business difficulties were posted on another unrelated thread.

Could have been coincidence but I think that unlikely and thankfully the more lurid bits were quickly removed by a moderator.

All rather ugly though.

philw

Yes, us honest posters are clearly being targeted. The bunch of gangsters currently in charge in Thailand clearly have their IT reps all over TV like a rash. A few months ago I'd never have believed it.

[ThaksinKharma]

Taiwan denies Surachai being trained on its soil

Taiwan yesterday dismissed allegations that it was being used as training ground for a suspected terrorist who had close connections with late Maj-General Khattiya Sawasdipol, as well as the red-shirt movement.

Taipei's Office of Economic and Culture sent a diplomatic note to the Foreign Ministry asking Thai authorities to clarify a report filed by the Department of Special Investigation that terrorist suspect Surachai "Rang" Thewarat was getting trained in armed combat in Taiwan.

The office said the report was groundless since Taiwanese authorities had no records of Surachai entering its territory over the past year.

The Nation

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/07/20/politics/Taiwan-denies-Surachai-being-trained-on-its-soil-30134134.html

[ThaksinKharma]

Sounds exactly like Cambodia last month denying that the red bombers were in Cambodia because they had no record of anyone entering their country with those names...

then 2 days later they deported these same 2 people to Thailand who apparently had, incredibly enough, entered the country with names other than their own.

[Siam Simon]

Sounds exactly like Cambodia last month denying that the red bombers were in Cambodia because they had no record of anyone entering their country with those names...

then 2 days later they deported these same 2 people to Thailand who apparently had, incredibly enough, entered the country with names other than their own.

Looks like you're back to stay SRJohn . What are you going to do with those other aliases that you created?

[hammered]

Absolutely nobody in this power struggle gives a toss about the rights of anyone and all sides have trampled all over the rights of everyone they dont like and the majority who arent even involved. Such is the nature of vicious power struggles.

[Rucharee]

Taiwan denies Surachai being trained on its soil

Taiwan yesterday dismissed allegations that it was being used as training ground for a suspected terrorist who had close connections with late Maj-General Khattiya Sawasdipol, as well as the red-shirt movement.

Taipei's Office of Economic and Culture sent a diplomatic note to the Foreign Ministry asking Thai authorities to clarify a report filed by the Department of Special Investigation that terrorist suspect Surachai "Rang" Thewarat was getting trained in armed combat in Taiwan.

The office said the report was groundless since Taiwanese authorities had no records of Surachai entering its territory over the past year.

The Nation

http://www.nationmul...l-30134134.html

Taiwan is a safe haven for terrorist?

Maybe.

[ThaksinKharma]

Some of the "tools" for the peaceful red shirt/black shirt demonstrators that Surachai sold did not include red foot clappers:

A display by the Department of Special Investigation shows ammunition for AK47s and other weapons its officials allegedly bought in a ‘sting’ operation from terror suspect Surachai Thewarat, a former red-shirt accused of selling illegal weapons.

The Nation - July 20, 2010

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/specials/nationphoto/show.php?id=1&pid=9450

[ThaksinKharma]

Arrested Red-Shirt Terrorist Refuses to Cooperate with DSI

A suspect in the violent attacks that occurred during the two-month red-shirt protests has refused to cooperate with investigators after the Department of Special Investigation denied him witness status.

A source in the Department of Special Investigation, or DSI, revealed that Surachai Thewarat, a close aide of the late radical red-shirt Major-General Khattiya Sawasdipol, has refused to cooperate with officials in the investigation into his alleged involvement in acts of terrorism during the two-month red-shirt protest.

Surachai, also known as “Rang”, claimed to be acting on instructions from the opposition Pheu Thai Party, but he declined to say what the instructions were.

Earlier, the suspect agreed to disclose information about the terrorist network and who the masterminds behind the violent attacks were, on the condition that the DSI protect him as a witness instead of charging his as a suspect, which would also help ensure that his family members are protected.

The DSI refused to give him witness status, however, saying that Surachai is involved in eight terrorism cases and is also being charged with illegal arms trading.

However, the agency has agreed to provide protection for his family.

TAN

http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/tan/ViewData.aspx?DataID=1032427

[brahmburgers]

I hope DSI authorities taped or video recorded Surachai's statements when he first started singing, a few days ago. Since then, Surachai has become a bit appraised of what 'legal rights' are, and has currently chosen not to sing (reveal details of his transgressions) any more. Still, that wouldn't necessarily negate what he told authorities earlier.

As for Central and other acts of destruction in Bkk immediately after the Red protest was nullified: I respect Tallforeigner as being on one of the scenes and telling what he witnessed. Such insights give these threads added depth. Seeing and deducing things have credence. However, it's not necessarily the actual explanation. It's better than pure speculation (particularly speculation driven by agenda), but you could get ten people who were at the scene, and you might get ten different descriptions of what happened.

If you gave me a can of gas and a lighter, I could bring down a large department store. Over half the shops at such malls sell items made from synthetic materials. Such materials ignite quickly and ferociously. I wouldn't be surprised if ceiling tiles and furniture fit the same volatile category.