Wife's Bad Debt

[Rinrada]

Interesting subject...so what would you suggest on this one...

Got a friend here in the UK with to my mind a bit of a problem re Credit Card debts

The guy (old Thai-Asia-hand /anjan..but MPRai.etc..)now retired living in sheltered accomodation,social security,sickness benefit etc and pays about £10 quid a month rent with small private pension. ...so far so good....but....

somehow has run up about 10 credit cards to the tune of just a baw bee (nit noi satang) under...£39,000.00...w.t.f.....why and how...but MPRai-Mai Co Jai......

He is trying to keep up his basic agreed payments to the CC companies of about £30 each card per month which does in his small extra pension....and more.. and of course at this rate the best he could possibly hope for would be to clear it by the time he is about 85 assuming no interest charges...which again of course there is....

so to get real....what would you suggest...(think i know and have already mentioned but ...)

[Heng]

how does one ensure that once loan has been paid, the land is indeed theirs again if the land deed is not proof enough?

I think it's just the matter of surrendering the title deed to the creditor without transferring the ownership so the creditor is never the owner of the mortgaged land as long as you're paying back the loan. Like Heng said the creditor can still claim the liablity if the debtor fails to pay the loan even if the creditor doesn't have the title deed, perhaps by having the land department issue a new deed under new title but I think you have to have the court to order the land department to do so.

This usually doesn't happen in person to person loans (or at least, I have yet to see it). I've only seen the land department issue new deeds on foreclosed land/homes that have been resold or auctioned.

[quint9]

Wow! You guy are the cat's ass (thats a good thing, lol). I posted the same question on the Thai Falang forum and got no replies at all. I'll buy a round at Gullivers on Soi 5 for you guys when I'm there. Does anybody here meet with the BKK Knights there on Friday nights? Do they still meet there?

Thanks for all the advice.

Q9

[sua yai]

Possibly, we're going around in circles.

If you've borrowed money in the UK against your home, if you owe rent, if you have purchashed goods on hp, then there's a legal contract to repay that debt and you'll be persued to the full letter of the law. Quite rightly.

However, credit card companies in the UK now cannot enforce an agreement that puts your goods and chattels at risk. It's their risk. Hence interest rates.

Rinrada. I suggest your friend gets in touch with any CAB and they'll put him straight. There's also a very helpful website, that's free. Your're talking to lawyers and they'll also direct you. Lost the name for the moment, but can find it if necessary.

Again, is the law the same in Thailand as the UK? It seems not.

[gburns57au]

I was under the impression that before she could get her visa to leave on a settlement etc...type visa, that they run a credit check on her as well as a police check.....I think you need to see some statements also.....something a bit fishy here me thinks

[kayo]

Apparently they can seize assets of your wife´s relatives, though I´m just a bartender...

Hearsay... check it out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You'd best stick to bartending I'd say.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Okay, with pleasure...

Oh! A thread related sign I saw in a bar the other day...

We have an agreement with the local banks:

They won´t serve drinks &

We won´t give credit.

[corkscrew]

Possibly, we're going around in circles.

If you've borrowed money in the UK against your home, if you owe rent, if you have purchashed goods on hp, then there's a legal contract to repay that debt and you'll be persued to the full letter of the law. Quite rightly.

However, credit card companies in the UK now cannot enforce an agreement that puts your goods and chattels at risk. It's their risk. Hence interest rates.

Rinrada. I suggest your friend gets in touch with any CAB and they'll put him straight. There's also a very helpful website, that's free. Your're talking to lawyers and they'll also direct you. Lost the name for the moment, but can find it if necessary.

Again, is the law the same in Thailand as the UK? It seems not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I find it difficult to believe that any credit card company would issue a credit card in a country that would not allow it to sue the user of the credit card if the user refused to pay. Granted, a debt owed to a credit card company is an unsecured one (meaning secured creditors would be paid first) but IMO the company certainly has the right to collect the debt from the borrower.

Do you have a source that says otherwise?

[Dragonman]

Possibly, we're going around in circles.

If you've borrowed money in the UK against your home, if you owe rent, if you have purchashed goods on hp, then there's a legal contract to repay that debt and you'll be persued to the full letter of the law. Quite rightly.

However, credit card companies in the UK now cannot enforce an agreement that puts your goods and chattels at risk. It's their risk. Hence interest rates.

Rinrada. I suggest your friend gets in touch with any CAB and they'll put him straight. There's also a very helpful website, that's free. Your're talking to lawyers and they'll also direct you. Lost the name for the moment, but can find it if necessary.

Again, is the law the same in Thailand as the UK? It seems not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I find it difficult to believe that any credit card company would issue a credit card in a country that would not allow it to sue the user of the credit card if the user refused to pay. Granted, a debt owed to a credit card company is an unsecured one (meaning secured creditors would be paid first) but IMO the company certainly has the right to collect the debt from the borrower.

Do you have a source that says otherwise?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not sure what lawyers gave advice that Credit Cards were outside the normal laws of unsecured debt. Hope their advice was free. Credit card companies can take you to a County Court or the High Court depending on level of debt. The judge wll make an order based on Income, assets, expenditure,etc.

Bankruptcy may be an option and nowadays you are discharged in 1 year!

If you own nothing and barely have enough to get by on, the judge may make an award of 1 pound a month in order to keep the debt alive. In the hope you'll one day win the lottery

[daleyboy]

I owe quite substantial amounts of money to several lenders, in the region of 22k. These are all unsecured debts, bank loan credit cards etc. When i came back from Thailand i told them that i couldnt afford the repayments and gave them a figure i could afford, on the provision that they freeze all intrest on the accounts, which they did.

I have made these offers of payment so that i dont get debt collectors coming to the door and also so they dont take me to court and apply for an attachment of earnings.

Some of the other posters have said that nothing can be done to recover the debt, well i tell you that is absoulte rubbish, i have worked as a bailiff and have spent alot of time going to private homes and businesses collecting money with court orders and removing goods when no arrangement to pay is made.

My advice for anyone owing money to anyone is dont brush it under the carpet, IT WONT GO AWAY and i will come round your house at 7am to collect. Speak to the people you owe money to and make an arrangement to pay

[sua yai]

My comments yesterday were based on three sources that were checked out last year when I went back to the UK for a holiday.

1. A local Citizens Advice Bureau - advice was to pay after negotiating with the company, otherwise I'd never get credit again. When I asked them if the company could take me to court, get a lien against my property, or have baliffs or debt collectors remove items from my property, I was told they couldn't. I would be threatened with it, but they had no legal right to do so.

2. The national debt hotline. Staffed voluntarily by lawyers, my correspondence was by e-mail. Ditto the above.

3. A friend here who used to do consultancy work for a credit card company in the UK and lectured employees on, amongst other matters, what they could and could not do under the law to debtors. Again ditto the above.

I've repaid my debt -about 6,000 pounds - as I didn't want to be on a blacklist. It was amazing just how flexible the company was when I pointed out that if they didn't accept my offer, they wouldn't get a penny.

I appreciate the above comments from people who have had to go after debts. My understanding is that there's a big stink in the UK now about how credit card companies are getting people into serious financial problems by continually extending their credit. If the contract you have with them dosn't say that your home and possessions are at risk if you default, there's not a lot they can do. This is a totally different situation to someone defaulting on a mortgage or hire purchase agreement. You're definitely in trouble then.

This was just my experience and the advice I got.

[daleyboy]

My comments yesterday were based on three sources that were checked out last year when I went back to the UK for a holiday.

1. A local Citizens Advice Bureau - advice was to pay after negotiating with the company, otherwise I'd never get credit again. When I asked them if the company could take me to court, get a lien against my property, or have baliffs or debt collectors remove items from my property, I was told they couldn't. I would be threatened with it, but they had no legal right to do so.

2. The national debt hotline. Staffed voluntarily by lawyers, my correspondence was by e-mail. Ditto the above.

3. A friend here who used to do consultancy work for a credit card company in the UK and lectured employees on, amongst other matters, what they could and could not do under the law to debtors. Again ditto the above.

I've repaid my debt -about 6,000 pounds - as I didn't want to be on a blacklist. It was amazing just how flexible the company was when I pointed out that if they didn't accept my offer, they wouldn't get a penny.

I appreciate the above comments from people who have had to go after debts. My understanding is that there's a big stink in the UK now about how credit card companies are getting people into serious financial problems by continually extending their credit. If the contract you have with them dosn't say that your home and possessions are at risk if you default, there's not a lot they can do. This is a totally different situation to someone defaulting on a mortgage or hire purchase agreement. You're definitely in trouble then.

This was just my experience and the advice I got.

I agree with your comments sua regarding the cc companies extending credit and getting people into debt, i take responsibility for my debts but i have also told the c/c companies they should take some responsibility as well as they knew i was living in Thailand and yet they still gave me more money, fools

But when you accept a credit card you are making a legally binding contract to repay monies borrowed. Of course it is not secured but they still have rights to take civil acation against you. They still have the right to take you to court and apply for attachment of earnings, as alot of these companies do they "sell" the debts on to outside collection agencies who will try to make an arrangement to pay and if you dont keep to this agreement they will send in the bailiffs.

Anyway sua maybe we should start a new topic on this as i think we have strayed a little bit

[maerim]

1. A local Citizens Advice Bureau - advice was to pay after negotiating with the company, otherwise I'd never get credit again. When I asked them if the company could take me to court, get a lien against my property, or have baliffs or debt collectors remove items from my property, I was told they couldn't. I would be threatened with it, but they had no legal right to do so.

The CAB is staffed by volunteers all middle class, middle aged and what they told you about not being able to be taken to court is downright incorrect.

If this is the case perhaps you can tell us why the credit card companies keep such a large legal force on the payroll ?

If you are wondering what certified baliffs are they are legal thugs, as the baliffs employed by the courts are as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike.

Certified baliffs are used when you want your money back, they go into the premises and take walking possession of goods and chatels if the debtor still won't or can't pay they are siezes and sold at auction to defray the debt.

[daleyboy]

Quote

If you are wondering what certified baliffs are they are legal thugs

unquote

maerim i cant agree with you on that one i am a certified bailiff and i dont consider myself a thug By the time it gets to this stage the people have had plenty of chance to make arrangements to pay and either havent responded or they just dont want to pay, when i visit someone the last thing i want to do is take property if i can help it, just too much hassle, i will always try and get money, and if i can see they are genuinely struggling i will always try to help by making a payment plan for them, i also tell them this is their last chance and if they default on the plan then i will come back and take goods, most people seem relieved to be able to finally sort their problems out.

Edited July 1, 2005 by daleyboy

[sua yai]

Ok. Tell you what I'm going to do.

I'll e-mail the national debtline in the UK and see what they have to say. Last year, they replied within hours.

I'm not doubting anyone who's actually done some collecting. This was info given from three sources to me.

I'll come back with an answer.

[daleyboy]

Ok. Tell you what I'm going to do.

I'll e-mail the national debtline in the UK and see what they have to say. Last year, they replied within hours.

I'm not doubting anyone who's actually done some collecting. This was info given from three sources to me.

I'll come back with an answer.

cool matey If i am wrong the beers will be on me

Edited July 1, 2005 by daleyboy

[maerim]

If you are wondering what certified baliffs are they are legal thugs

unquote

maerim i cant agree with you on that one i am a certified bailiff

Perhaps you can't agree but I bet you are a big lad and you do get results am I right or am I right?

[daleyboy]

If you are wondering what certified baliffs are they are legal thugs

unquote

maerim i cant agree with you on that one i am a certified bailiff

Perhaps you can't agree but I bet you are a big lad and you do get results am I right or am I right?

Yes your right on that one i am a big lad 6"8 and 140kgs and yes i have the obligatory skinhead And yes when people see me knocking on their door they probably think i am a thug, but when they speak to me they soon realise i am not there to try any strong arm tactics on them. To be a certified bailiff you must have the following qualifications, no criminal record, no ccjs or made bankrupt, you must be sworn in at court and be tested on your knowledge of the law concerning entering premises etc and the company you work for have to put up a 10k bond for you.

[a2396]

An interesting post. As a "husband" of a traditional Thai marriage, I have some observations on this. First, I think honesty is a rather unknown concept to thai women. My "other half" is particularly secretive regarding any family finanial matters, including her own. I paid-off some family debt recently, including a house mortgage. They did take me along whith them, when the papers were signed, etc, which surprised me. I am concerned about wheather they could incur further mortgage debt via loan sharks, now that the house mortage is paid-off. I would assume the answer is a big yes.