Thailand Urged To Provide Incentives For Women To Produce 'Qualitative' Children

[webfact]

General warning

Leave the comparisons to Nazi Germany out of this topic

If you cannot comply members in violation will earn a suspension.

Admin

[thaibkk]

555 funny story

so why they do not invest in qualitative education for the children ?

in my home country, the politics also saw a decline in birth rate, so what they did ?

import low to no education muslim in big numbers, so called to work for our social security / pension system

with already a large number of home grown no brain local people, this added nice up to the decline of the social security which my grandparents, parents and meself, contribute for generations ...

[pedro01]

The death rate is falling, that is amazing.

I assumed it would stay at 100% like other countries.

Well spotted !

[Cuban]

Missing the point he (Pramote Prasartful)was really trying to make, if Thai people had better quality children then the Thai academic community would be able to educate them.

But how to improve the gene pool - any ideas

BTW:

"Pramote Prasartful" is an anagram of "A Prof Sputter Alarm"

[johncat1]

Most Thai parents don't even raise their own children it is often left to the grandparents or even the great grandparents to do this because the parents are away making money

As every farang know a Thais first love is money NOT their families

[GarryP]

Automatic visas to couples who have a Farang father who stays with the wife and child

Now that is an instant way to get better quality babies and more of them

True that!Not to mention kids will be bilingual and well educated .

Also how about defining qualitative.

Having a farang father does not necessarily mean anything noteworthy. A lot of them have even less involvement in bringing up their children than they would have had back in their home countries. Also, not all Thai/foreign families can afford to send their kids to international schools and must settle for much less.

Finally, not all kids of Thai/foreign families are bilingual.

Sheesh the generalizations in the previous post.

[toybits]

Or perhaps, find more people like Cristiano Ronaldo. He just had a baby without having a wife. How cool can that get. They just have to identify the criteria for what qualities they want from their new babies.

[thaibeachlovers]

To give birth to another human being just because someone is unable to carry own with his own life using his own means it's one of the more selfish and irresponsible act a "human" being can actually made, it doesn't matter on how rich and happy someone can be during his entire life, it will still be subject to pain, sickness and all the other "plagues" that affect everyones personal existence, the world is full of other people having huge sufferences and a person inable to see all these shouldn't really be allowed to live, let alone procreating, if you really want to do something good in your life, start taking care of whom is already here and never asked to be part of the "game" , it's time to make responsible choices....oh and by the way, recent news are talking about governments cancelling those bonuses because they can no longer afford....

Edit: spelling

Agreed.

I also hope you are right about governments cancelling those financial incentives to have children. I left my home country, because I was sick of working my butt off to pay tax which was used to pay teenagers to keep their illigitimate children!

In this day and age, no one ( in western countries ) should have children unless they can afford to take care of them without sucking off the taxpayer's teat.

Edited July 12, 2010 by thaibeachlovers

[bkkjames]

To give birth to another human being just because someone is unable to carry own with his own life using his own means it's one of the more selfish and irresponsible act a "human" being can actually made, it doesn't matter on how rich and happy someone can be during his entire life, it will still be subject to pain, sickness and all the other "plagues" that affect everyones personal existence, the world is full of other people having huge sufferences and a person inable to see all these shouldn't really be allowed to live, let alone procreating, if you really want to do something good in your life, start taking care of whom is already here and never asked to be part of the "game" , it's time to make responsible choices....oh and by the way, recent news are talking about governments cancelling those bonuses because they can no longer afford....

Edit: spelling

Agreed.

I also hope you are right about governments cancelling those financial incentives to have children. I left my home country, because I was sick of working my butt off to pay tax which was used to pay teenagers to keep their illigitimate children!

In this day and age, no one ( in western countries ) should have children unless they can afford to take care of them without sucking off the taxpayer's teat.

In theory i don't disagree with you about the last sentence, however if you are left with only the rich having offspring, sooner or later you are left with just a few rich people and nobody to take advantage of - that wouldn't be much fun nor rewarding.

[ianwuk]

To give birth to another human being just because someone is unable to carry own with his own life using his own means it's one of the more selfish and irresponsible act a "human" being can actually made, it doesn't matter on how rich and happy someone can be during his entire life, it will still be subject to pain, sickness and all the other "plagues" that affect everyones personal existence, the world is full of other people having huge sufferences and a person inable to see all these shouldn't really be allowed to live, let alone procreating, if you really want to do something good in your life, start taking care of whom is already here and never asked to be part of the "game" , it's time to make responsible choices....oh and by the way, recent news are talking about governments cancelling those bonuses because they can no longer afford....

Edit: spelling

Agreed.

I also hope you are right about governments cancelling those financial incentives to have children. I left my home country, because I was sick of working my butt off to pay tax which was used to pay teenagers to keep their illigitimate children!

In this day and age, no one ( in western countries ) should have children unless they can afford to take care of them without sucking off the taxpayer's teat.

I saw a porn site once that specialised in foreigners making Thai women pregnant because they wanted more money from the government. I never thought it was true though.

[KKK]

Most Thai parents don't even raise their own children it is often left to the grandparents or even the great grandparents to do this because the parents are away making money

As every farang know a Thais first love is money NOT their families

A very broad statement with obviously very little thought given to it.

Children need supervision. Who is going to do this? The mother? If so then she can't go to work. If she has a live in partner then said partner has to earn sufficient income to provide for himself, his wife and his children. With Thailand's low wages an almost impossible task for most. So often the only solution is to put the children in care with a non-working grandparent enabling both parents to work and earn sufficient income to provide for themselves, their children and the grandparent.

[cyrus]

Automatic visas to couples who have a Farang father who stays with the wife and child

Now that is an instant way to get better quality babies and more of them

I guess this is a joke. Having farang father means better quality babies!? Maybe I misunderstood the comments made..

[brd]

What a good common sense and appropriate suggestion to ease the ways and the visa terms to Farang Parental life. Bravo

Automatic visas to couples who have a Farang father who stays with the wife and child

Now that is an instant way to get better quality babies and more of them

[sweeneythailand]

lets see what the next few years brings the kids will show us all what will come.

the system is bad real bad how is a girl in Thailand supposed to take care of her young and work.

no social state in Thailand and the rich dont want one!

they cant get medical help or schooling and until they do it wont change.

tax at 50% for the rich to pay the welfare of the poor never in Thailand

[chmiroau]

Automatic visas to couples who have a Farang father who stays with the wife and child

Now that is an instant way to get better quality babies and more of them

Here here here here.

[sweeneythailand]

What a good common sense and appropriate suggestion to ease the ways and the visa terms to Farang Parental life. Bravo

Automatic visas to couples who have a Farang father who stays with the wife and child

Now that is an instant way to get better quality babies and more of them

if you get married to the girl and have kids you can get a marriage visa no

[Rucharee]

Smart women produce smarter children.

The men side is not an influential factor.

[cdnvic]

People are throwing a lot of statements around with absolutely zero backup. Can we please have an informed debate rather than another propaganda session?

[surayu]

I saw a porn site once that specialised in foreigners making Thai women pregnant because they wanted more money from the government. I never thought it was true though.

Inspiring! ....by any chances were you browsing the net along this other guy?

http://freethinker.co.uk/2010/06/14/butcher-boosts-the-muslim-population-by-17-charged-with-welfare-fraud/

[ableguy]

To give birth to another human being just because someone is unable to carry own with his own life using his own means it's one of the more selfish and irresponsible act a "human" being can actually made, it doesn't matter on how rich and happy someone can be during his entire life, it will still be subject to pain, sickness and all the other "plagues" that affect everyones personal existence, the world is full of other people having huge sufferences and a person inable to see all these shouldn't really be allowed to live, let alone procreating, if you really want to do something good in your life, start taking care of whom is already here and never asked to be part of the "game" , it's time to make responsible choices....oh and by the way, recent news are talking about governments cancelling those bonuses because they can no longer afford....

Edit: spelling

this is one of the longest sentences i have ever seen

and boreing?

[kuffki]

Automatic visas to couples who have a Farang father who stays with the wife and child

Now that is an instant way to get better quality babies and more of them

I guess this is a joke. Having farang father means better quality babies!? Maybe I misunderstood the comments made..

You only missed few words. Fathers who stay with wife and kids, and yeah that would already improve "quality"

In any family where parents speak 2 different languages, kids would if not speak but understand another language. Unless Thai mother speaks only English(which is impossible) and father speaks only Thai(again impossible) kids will be bilingual.

Usually, not in every case, foreigner marrying a Thai and moving to Thailand does have some savings and will send kids to better school and even at home teaching is rather better.

Whether some posters like it or not, but Western upbringing gives much more general knowledge then Thai, things like WW2 are not even taught to Thai kids or history or geography of other other country's and people.

So having a father from "better" back ground, clearly benefits more then having a tuk tuk driver as a father, not in terms of love but in terms of knowledge and general interests.

In Thailand social system really does not hold men responsible at all morally or financially, so you have millions of men running around and getting girls pregnant and never have to take any responsibility for the kid.

Kids are like a sponge, the absorbe what they see and are a product of the environment, While growing up without a father and mother changing BF or growing up with grandmother somewhere in the village-they really do not have much of a bright future and chances are will follow in the same foot steps and looking at Thailand it seems to be the case.

Edited July 12, 2010 by kuffki

[awayfoe]

hummm where we can buy a qualitative thai children ? quote in stock market ??? lol

[SantiSuk]

I would have thought that Western countries who make big unfunded social security and pension promises (politicians too eager to please/hold power + robbing future generations too easy and populaces too greedy) are much more in the doo doo than third world countries like Thailand, that make no such promises.

[zakk9]

And you don't consider a racist post suggesting that they should encourage foreigners to live here and father children because they would be of a better quality than Thai children insulting?

Unfortunately, a very large number of Thai men run away as soon as they learn that their gf/gig or whatever is pregnant. Very many of the mothers have no other choice than sending the children to their own mother and start working in the "entertainment industry". If the grandmother can't or won't take care of the children... those are the kids you see running around in South Pattaya at three in the morning. Call it racist if you want, but it's a fact. The problem exists in western countries as well, but not to the same degree, and in those countries, at least in Europe, there are economic arrangements that protect the mother and child. No such thing here. Go to the maternity wards upcountry or near any of the tourist resorts and ask the young mothers if the bf is still around.

What foreigners can do is to support one or two children like that. The monthly cost isn't much more than a couple of bar visits. It won't solve the problem for Thailand, but it will at least help a child or two to get a mother who is there for them and hopefully some kind of education.

[Gonsalviz]

<br>Automatic visas to couples who have a Farang father who stays with the wife and child<br><br><br>Now that is an instant way to get better quality babies and more of them<br>

<br><br>I could definitely go for that. <br><br>More Thai fathers being involved in their children's lives would be an asset.<br><br>More babies is not the problem.<br>

[chmiroau]

This is a burgeoning problem. With the so called need for more babies to support the 'economy', many governments have decided to offer bonuses to families if they produce a baby.

Back in Australia this problem ended with 8 month pregnant mums with their families shopping for the latest and greatest big screen Tv, that they would buy with the government bonus.

The government then rationed the bonus out to low income families, bringing with it outcries from this group citing discrimination. What to do.

Somewhere the true meaning of the word Economy has been lost. More people does not generally mean a more profitable country. Sometimes this will only create class divides, as it generally costs the same to feed a poor kid as it does a rich kid. (Discounting the fact that rich parents will spend more on food for their kid, as they have more money to spend, this does not alter the fact that all kids eat roughly the same amount of food.) However, should a poor family with little means of self support (due to low education) be sucked into this bonus for procreation scheme, then they will only look at the short term gain, not the long term expense of clothing, feeding educating and general health that each kids needs. This means that the social support system will forever need to be bolstered by the wider community, possible for the life of these children. More taxes for probable little return for the economy.

The most important area that the government needs to address is the education system. The education system has so many systemic problems there isn't enough space on this page to note them. First they need to spend some real money on training the teachers, so that they are far more competent than they are now. Then an increase in the budget for teaching materials would go along way to further the more competent teachers. But the hardest part of this whole operation would be to change the general mentality that all children must pass.

I do not know if this is even possible.

Dont give the parents money for children, this has a very negative affect, as it turns children into a commodity, and the long term affect is a burden to the wide community. BUT when the children are here, at least give them a decent education, for free.

[Gonsalviz]

And you don't consider a racist post suggesting that they should encourage foreigners to live here and father children because they would be of a better quality than Thai children insulting?

Unfortunately, a very large number of Thai men run away as soon as they learn that their gf/gig or whatever is pregnant. Very many of the mothers have no other choice than sending the children to their own mother and start working in the "entertainment industry". If the grandmother can't or won't take care of the children... those are the kids you see running around in South Pattaya at three in the morning. Call it racist if you want, but it's a fact. The problem exists in western countries as well, but not to the same degree, and in those countries, at least in Europe, there are economic arrangements that protect the mother and child. No such thing here. Go to the maternity wards upcountry or near any of the tourist resorts and ask the young mothers if the bf is still around.

What foreigners can do is to support one or two children like that. The monthly cost isn't much more than a couple of bar visits. It won't solve the problem for Thailand, but it will at least help a child or two to get a mother who is there for them and hopefully some kind of education.

What rock did you crawl out from under?

How can they be 500 miles away when they are taking your money in BKK?

[adam1]

The need for an intelligent educated set of parents is essential, that starts at the grass roots. A decent education system , followed by a dramatic change in society where parents actually look after their own offspring and not farm them out to aged relatives.

To solve the farming out problem would mean an all round increase in salaries/ wages so as to encourage mum or dad to stay home and actually be a parent.

The necessity for a decent maternity leave is needed however as far as I am aware that there are provisions in place for such leave here in Thailand.

However, remember, we create that child between ourselves and our partner, but we don't know what we are going to get, what we get may differ very much from what we expect.

I've seen kids from appalling backgrounds grow and prosper , I've also seen kids from privileged backgrounds sink below the gutter, parenting is dammed hard work. After bringing up, and still bringing up four boys I assure you my wife (who is Thai) and myself are still learning day to day.

Our children have never been farmed out,however family contact has always been a prominent part of their upbringing.

The learned Ajarn who is responsible for the original article indeed needs to actually get in contact with the grass roots parents to see how they exist, then let us see what ideas and theories this high minded isolated from reality intellectual can propound and even put into practice so as to benefit the upcoming generations of Thai's

The whole gamut of parenthood like childhood is a vast unexplored scene of if's and but's, I wish I had done this or not done that. Social pressures financial pressures, indeed a frightening prospect but a damm good ride in my view.

Strange as it may seem most parents irrespective of social levels ,education or location do a pretty good job of bringing up their children in Thailand considering the rigid constraints that bind the majority of people into a form of debt bondage and servitude that binds them to a sometimes dysfunctional family.

Once the state becomes involved that is the downward slope, North Korea, China, many more can be mentioned, my own country the U.K. has all but destroyed childhood and parents and children's rights in its pursuit of political correctness and conformity .

The industry that has sprouted from the caring society in the U.K. has created far more victims than it has or ever will save.Strangely enough that industry is staffed in the main by unmarried and childless overpaid people with no insight into reality

Governments and politicians and intellectuals have no insight nor right in interfering in family matters in the main.

Parenthood is our personal duty and we should be able to understand that which is best for our children.

This is unlike some isolated government mandarin jobsworth whose only concern is, what is my next promotion, and what will my pension be worth when I retire ?

That's an interesting post. Do you have a blog or summat?

I agree that kids here seem to arrive at early adulthood often better adjusted than back home in the UK, even if they lack some basic knowledge about history, geography or algebra. Sweeping generalisation, granted. Sometimes it seems as if it is society itself that is bringing up the child.

[HakimKlunker]

<BR>Calling Dr Goebbels.....Calling Dr Goebbels.  Your needed in Thailand ASAP.  <IMG class=bbc_emoticon alt= src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/whistling.gif"><BR>

<BR><BR>Emm: they have their Goebbels already (just impotent compared with the language power)<BR>I think you have Mengele in mind?<BR><BR>Or is it the 'Lebensborn' project that appeals you? (Although breeding racial mix is already an ongoing process). In that case Heinrich Himmler would have been in charge.<BR><BR>

[maxman71]

It is becoming increasingly evident to me that the least regulated activity on the planet (with the exception of China) is women can have as many kids as they want regardless of their financial situation, whether or not the father is going to be around, whether the mother or father will be "quality" parents, etc. It takes a permit in many states in the US to trim back a tree that is hanging over in your yard, but a 3rd generation welfare mother can pump out as many kids as she wants; no questions asked.

If Thailand embarks on a campaign to offer financial incentives for women to have more kids, what a mess that will be.