Thailand Urged To Provide Incentives For Women To Produce 'Qualitative' Children

[KKK]

Thomas Friedman stated "Give me the kid with a passion to learn and a curiosity to discover and I will take him or her over the less passionate kid with a huge IQ every day of the week." IQ "still matters, but CQ and PQ ... matter even more."

My observations of kids in Thailand is that they have very little CQ or PQ. During conversations with them I am given answers but never questions. None of them have library cards and most don't even know that Pattaya has a public library let alone visited it. How often do you see a kid reading a book? Comics don't count. Whilst going through the 8 times table with one the other day he was all correct up to 7 times. On asking 8 times he replied "didn't go to school that day". Funny? Yes. True? Sadly also yes. He knew 9 times etc but had no interest to find out what 8 times was.

And what good is education in Thailand anyway. No matter how smart you are you'll still have problems getting a decent job unless you "know somebody". The dumb son of the company president will get the position over the smart kid who went to public school. The dumb son's qualifications aren't worth the paper they are written on. Private schools and colleges hand out passes willy nilly. To fail a student is a bad reflection on the school/college. I.E. We (the school/college) failed to educate him.

[Everett]

<br>This report doesn't make sense : it amounts to " there's a decline in birth rate, so let's make less children" <img src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/crazy.gif" class="bbc_emoticon" alt=""><br>

That is exactly what I got from reading this too.

This is exactly why I don't bother checking most of the "news" that thaivisa sends to my inbox. It's usually just nonsense.

www.infowars.com

Edited July 13, 2010 by Everett

[KKK]

I've just reread the first article in this thread.

"Thailand Urged To Provide Incentives For Women"

"measures which would focus on women"

"when the mother-to-be"

Isn't this all a little one sided. Whatever happened to the men/fathers? If they are left out of the equation in producing children then what incentive is there for them?

Equality for women has gotten way out of hand. Women now get more than a man ever got. That's not equality....

[PBarnfeather]

I think the first sentence of this item says what needed to be said. The rest of it--especially the headline-- just confuses the issue.

Basicly Thai kids are no different than other kids around the world but the ones I have dealt with have been taught to be ignorant. If you want to produce 'Qualitative' children think about education(by the parents and the teachers)

[fatfather]

Improve, ....better: Install a proper the school system. Good education changes the view on life.

[Bobotox]

how many husbands walk out of their pregnant wives?

Arjan is spending too much time with his books and computer and lacking fieldwork.

Perhaps you are spending too much time academic-bashing online. I have heard of ping-pong balls and eggs, but husbands? Walking?

[nikster]

This guy is actually a professor?

How about government incentives to produce some "qualitative" academics then.

^^^^^ Thank you for that! Excellent post.

[ajarnmark]

Quality children starts with responsible parents.

How many chidren are being abandoned into the care of grandparents or other relatives, and how many husbands walk out of their pregnant wives?

Arjan is spending too much time with his books and computer and lacking fieldwork.

and you are spending too much time in bars and have no clue about Thai society...

if u know a little bit more about thai society outside bars then you would know that thai parents are way more responsible than many other western ones...

[123ace]

Quality children starts with responsible parents.

How many chidren are being abandoned into the care of grandparents or other relatives, and how many husbands walk out of their pregnant wives?

Arjan is spending too much time with his books and computer and lacking fieldwork.

and you are spending too much time in bars and have no clue about Thai society...

if u know a little bit more about thai society outside bars then you would know that thai parents are way more responsible than many other western ones...

Ajarn Mark, sorry but you are way off on this and Trogers is quite accurate. I have seen what he describes very frequently in my full 20 years here as a business professional. There are bad parents everywhere in the world obviously, but don't just support the locals on priciple please. Your sweeping statement denies 100% that there is an issue here and seems to border on condoning chronic abuse that is evident to everyone. This is not a comparison test and you should open your eyes, or perhaps go to a bar!

[atyclb]

Amen

Thomas Friedman stated "Give me the kid with a passion to learn and a curiosity to discover and I will take him or her over the less passionate kid with a huge IQ every day of the week." IQ "still matters, but CQ and PQ ... matter even more."

My observations of kids in Thailand is that they have very little CQ or PQ. During conversations with them I am given answers but never questions. None of them have library cards and most don't even know that Pattaya has a public library let alone visited it. How often do you see a kid reading a book? Comics don't count. Whilst going through the 8 times table with one the other day he was all correct up to 7 times. On asking 8 times he replied "didn't go to school that day". Funny? Yes. True? Sadly also yes. He knew 9 times etc but had no interest to find out what 8 times was.

And what good is education in Thailand anyway. No matter how smart you are you'll still have problems getting a decent job unless you "know somebody". The dumb son of the company president will get the position over the smart kid who went to public school. The dumb son's qualifications aren't worth the paper they are written on. Private schools and colleges hand out passes willy nilly. To fail a student is a bad reflection on the school/college. I.E. We (the school/college) failed to educate him.

[atyclb]

There certainly is a lot of what you say in the "bar venue" families, but it is not exclusive to that segment as there was even a Thai TV special about many problems across the spectrum of society.

Quality children starts with responsible parents.

How many chidren are being abandoned into the care of grandparents or other relatives, and how many husbands walk out of their pregnant wives?

Arjan is spending too much time with his books and computer and lacking fieldwork.

and you are spending too much time in bars and have no clue about Thai society...

if u know a little bit more about thai society outside bars then you would know that thai parents are way more responsible than many other western ones...

[Rucharee]

I think Singapore have been doing this for years.

[JetsetBkk]

Not necessarily. Western men often have more means to support the family,

and come from a place where family units and early learning are valued higher.

It's not hard to see the differences between local custom and mores

and where you come from and/or have lived.

And hopefully, western men would tell their wives and children to turn off that bluddy rubbish on channels 3 and 7 called "lakorns" which turns the average Thai viewer into a goggle-box watching, noodle eating moron for 3 or 4 hours every night when they could be actually learning something useful.

Phew. Glad I got that off my chest.

[inthepink]

Yes. If only Thai people behaved like Westerners and turned into pizza eating morons, watching fantastic TV programmes like Big Brother in the UK or Oprah in the USA. Then they would really learn something.

Edited July 13, 2010 by inthepink

[GarryP]

I do not watch the soaps here as I find them mind numbingly boring, but I believe it is a cultural thing. I also do not watch Indian movies because song and dance seems to break out willy nilly. That does not mean they are bad, the average Indian likes the movies just as the average Thai likes their soaps. Just because you don't like them does not mean they do not have merit for their target audience.

There is also the matter that many of the people who complain about the programs can't even understand the language they are in.

[peacefulwarrior]

That's the soft version of Eugenics. Next will be that everybody's genes are scanned and only 'worthy to the state' people will be born. This technocrat talk goes way back to NAZI Germany and has many friends in the U.S. as well. And if you read carefully stuff like the Agenda 2010 from the U.N. you will see the same pattern emerge. We're steadily going into post-democratic times where the 'state' becomes your parent and the individual is basically on his own. Look at all the vaccination and Pro-Familia style 'administration of people' - and then think again where Huxley and Orwell had their ideas from. They were from a special circle of powerful families interbreeding to create the race of people which is now all the advisers and experts, they are the powers in the state, not those greedy puppets that get elected and buzzed out every four years or so.

Just remember how much 'mourning' there was for those branded as 'terrorist' peoples. Life becomes a commodity and people prefer to be sorry because shopping malls burn down. Hopefully we all wake up before the real crap surfaces and it's to late.

[peacefulwarrior]

Just one more for the record:

Gradually, by selective breeding, the congenital differences between rulers and ruled will increase until they become almost different species. A revolt of the plebs would become as unthinkable as an organized insurrection of sheep against the practice of eating mutton. - Bertrand Russell, The Impact of Science on Society

Now look just how the last 'revolt' worked out according to plan...

[sbk]

Just deleted a whole bunch of inflammatory crap; posts, responses to posts etc etc.

I am not even going to bother citing it, because you know who you are. Drop it. Now. Next one that posts in that vein will be suspended from posting for a week.

Cheers

[kissdani]

 If we are to go along with this strange assertion from some posters that the average Westerner in Thailand can provide a better upbringing for children because they have more money, and therefore should be encouraged to settle here because their offspring will be superior to those of all-Thai families then shouldn't the UK government be neutering people who live on council estates and don't earn much money? (An unfortunate side effect of such a policy would be a huge reduction in the number of British people coming to live in Thailand though)

The continual comments about the level of intelligence of Thai people is extremely silly too. The last time I was in the UK it was full of stupid people. Half the people I talked to seemed to think I live in Taiwan which doesn't say much for their education or intelligence.

According to a table of national IQ estimates that I found online, the USA ranks 19th in the world. The top five places are Hong Kong, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan and Singapore. So perhaps the USA and other Western countries should start offering incentives for nationals of these countries to come and mate with their less intelligent natives? 

I agree with you, but i doubt that 'they' will understand.

[TAWP]

 If we are to go along with this strange assertion from some posters that the average Westerner in Thailand can provide a better upbringing for children because they have more money, and therefore should be encouraged to settle here because their offspring will be superior to those of all-Thai families then shouldn't the UK government be neutering people who live on council estates and don't earn much money? (An unfortunate side effect of such a policy would be a huge reduction in the number of British people coming to live in Thailand though)

The continual comments about the level of intelligence of Thai people is extremely silly too. The last time I was in the UK it was full of stupid people. Half the people I talked to seemed to think I live in Taiwan which doesn't say much for their education or intelligence.

According to a table of national IQ estimates that I found online, the USA ranks 19th in the world. The top five places are Hong Kong, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan and Singapore. So perhaps the USA and other Western countries should start offering incentives for nationals of these countries to come and mate with their less intelligent natives? 

I agree with you, but i doubt that 'they' will understand.

You agree with the notion that IQ should dictate if people get benefits and can get off-springs?

Alright.

Will you still do this when I post the IQ chart that outlines the national average across the world?

Ps. I think any regulation or benefits based on percieved average IQ is pure non-sense. Ds.

[asiawatcher]

And the follow on from birth and death rate declining - please explain? Then the follow on blurb was the article that 10,000 underaged (15 and below) a year are getting pregnant and the Minister wants to penalise them and throw them out of education - yep this all sounds like Thailand. Throw them out of education so they can have more babies... ? Especially if they take the professors numbers that death rate is falling - god/buddha help us and save us from idiots!

[inthepink]

If we are to go along with this strange assertion from some posters that the average Westerner in Thailand can provide a better upbringing for children because they have more money, and therefore should be encouraged to settle here because their offspring will be superior to those of all-Thai families then shouldn't the UK government be neutering people who live on council estates and don't earn much money? (An unfortunate side effect of such a policy would be a huge reduction in the number of British people coming to live in Thailand though)

The continual comments about the level of intelligence of Thai people is extremely silly too. The last time I was in the UK it was full of stupid people. Half the people I talked to seemed to think I live in Taiwan which doesn't say much for their education or intelligence.

According to a table of national IQ estimates that I found online, the USA ranks 19th in the world. The top five places are Hong Kong, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan and Singapore. So perhaps the USA and other Western countries should start offering incentives for nationals of these countries to come and mate with their less intelligent natives?

I agree with you, but i doubt that 'they' will understand.

You agree with the notion that IQ should dictate if people get benefits and can get off-springs?

Alright.

Will you still do this when I post the IQ chart that outlines the national average across the world?

Ps. I think any regulation or benefits based on percieved average IQ is pure non-sense. Ds.

Well Kissdani was certaintly right about you not being able to understand my post.

I'm not talking about testing people's IQ before giving them benefits at all. I didn't even mention benefits in my post. I'm saying that if you think the Thai govenrment should encourage Western men to come here and mate because they produce better babies then why not be more selective in the West? People have argued that there are economic benefits to marrying a Westerner so they should make it easier for them to live here. Well, there are economic benefits to not marrying some factory worker in the UK earning a pittance so why not stop them breeding so we can have more qualitative babies there too?

Furthermore, if these Western men are so intelligent and successful then why are they happy to come here and marry farm girls with little education? I have nothing against farming families but if someone from the supposedly developed West is intellectually satisfied with a relationship like that then they obviously aren't all that bright themselves. The middle class in Thailand may be much smaller than in some countries but there are plenty of well educated ladies out there to meet if you're up to the challenge, although I fear many foreigners living here are not.

Incidentally, if you look at the Gini coeffficient for countries around the world you will see that the gap between the rich and the poor is not all that different here than it is in the USA (my apologies for mentioning some verifiable facts).

Edited July 13, 2010 by inthepink

[nakachalet]

INTHEPINK

as educated as you appear to be:

just how could such a statement be uttered that, ....I have nothing against farming families but if someone from the supposedly developed West is intellectually satisfied with a relationship like that then they obviously aren't all that bright themselves....

some how, you preconceive and concoct within yourself and your intellectual domain that .... no college graduate from any more economically advanced country would settle with a lady from a farming family in thailand....

and if one does settle with such a lucky lady.... then the gentleman, according to your postulation and thinking, is not that bright....

mine oh mine.... that is something for every educated person, male or female alike to ponder further.... if any of them even wants to communicate, associate or even interact with the lower caste.... or the less educated population....

INTHEPINK.... apparently you must be the brightest human on earth to have come up with such brightest notion and idea since creation....

i surely hope that you really do not mean what you said.... and that words are inadequate to express what you have in your expanding mind....

as for myself.... i just love the farm ladies and gentlemen.... though most are not that educated and many are even illiterate....

but they are mostly genuine, loving, caring, sincere, down to earth and hospitable.... <sorry, inthepink, that i just have to disagree with your thought and expression>

[Globalhot]

I think there is confusion on this thread about what "quality" means in the context of demography.

Basically, society can opt to have as many children as possible (quantitative approach).

Or, it can opt to have the amount of children necessary to maximize the probability that each child will have a quality lifestyle (qualitative approach).

Poor women, in general, have too many children. The family economic pie has to be divided up in smaller pieces because of this. And each child gets less: attention, money, food, opportunity to attend a good school, etc.

This pattern breeds poverty. It is a culture of poverty.

The alternative is what most rich people do: have few children and invest more in each.

Quality, in this sense, is not a bad thing. It is a good thing because each child is given more opportunities to succeed in life.

Promoting population growth is, in my view, insane.

[Shamu28]

Is this what they want to do?

"Eugenics is the study and practice of selective breeding applied to humans, with the aim of improving the species. In a historical and broader sense, eugenics can also be a study of "improving human genetic qualities." Advocates of eugenics sought to counter what they regarded as dysgenic dynamics within the human gene pool. Specifically, in regard to the continuation of congenital disorders and factors impacting overall societal intelligence relating to the heritability of IQ.

Eugenics was widely popular in the early decades of the 20th century, but has largely fallen into disrepute after having become associated with Nazi Germany."

From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugenics

This sounds like the Nazi's back in the 1930's-40's, a master race. <br><br>The only way to get a qualitative population is to educate them to the standard needed to compete in the globalised world. When you get reports about 80% of teachers failing in their own subjects, how do you expect children to learn anything. I think the fact is that Thailand is miopic when it comes to teaching kids. <br><br>I was amazed just how little my wife knows about world history for one. Compared to other third world contries it is amazing how few speak good English, That in it self is a handycap to a qualitative population. <br>

I do not believe the professor is referring to anything like the above. A quality life for a child has many factors. The government can do various beneficial things to help the situation. Prenatal care, maternity leave, daycare provisions. Parental education. Several years ago the princess started a program to encourage breast feeding, to educate mothers on the benefits of not strapping the baby to them all day, put them down so they can feel, touch experience their environment to stimulate their development. She gave away stimulating infant toys to new mothers. The government can provide assistance to children with disabilities so they may grow to be productive members of society instead of simply selling lotto tickets. It begins very early and continues on through the years. Yes education here needs to be totally rethought and restructured.

As an end note all of the comments about farang fathers are ridiculous! I am sure the % of farang fathers who do not support their children is every bit as high if not higher than the Thai fathers.

[jdk]

there is one girl who works in my billing dept. quiet, sort of cute, but nothing outstanding, and she is about 25 years old. she just had her second child and both children are being raised by my call center supervisor. the call center supervisor is openly dyke and excellent worker in most respects. she is my second highest paid employee. the supervisor and the other girl are not in a relationship, except for the one i am outlining here. now she has 2 children and when they come to the office (children) they get to walk around the call center and talk to everyone as thai children do with a room full of women. none pay any attention to their biological mother. i understand the real mother continues to go out at night and party and we are all just waiting for the 3rd child to come someday. I kind of like the kids in the office once in a while. they are good fun and staff brighten up when they are here. by the way... as managing director (who is fluent in thai) it still took me almost a year to learn this interesting relationship triangle.

[inthepink]

<BR>INTHEPINK<BR><BR>as educated as you appear to be:<BR><BR>just how could such a statement be uttered that,  ....<I><B>I have nothing against farming families but if someone from the  supposedly developed West is intellectually satisfied with a  relationship like that then they obviously aren't all that bright  themselves....<BR><BR>some how, you preconceive and concoct within yourself and your intellectual domain that .... no college graduate from any more economically advanced country would settle with a lady from a farming family in thailand.... <BR><BR>and if one does settle with such a lucky lady.... then the gentleman, according to your postulation and thinking, is not that bright.... <BR><BR>mine oh mine....  </B></I><B>that is something</B><I><B> </B></I><B>for every educated person, male or female alike to ponder further....  if any of them even wants to communicate, associate or even interact with the lower caste.... or the less educated population....<BR><BR>INTHEPINK.... apparently you must be the brightest human on earth to have come up with such brightest notion and idea since creation....  <BR><BR>i surely hope that you really do not mean what you said.... and that words are inadequate to express what you have in your expanding mind.... <IMG class=bbc_emoticon alt= src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif"> <BR><BR>as for myself.... i just love the farm ladies and gentlemen....  though most are not that educated and many are even illiterate.... <BR><BR>but they are mostly genuine, loving, caring, sincere, down to earth and hospitable.... <IMG class=bbc_emoticon alt= src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif">   <sorry, inthepink, that i just have to disagree with your thought and expression><BR></B><BR>

Either we are misunderstanding each other or you aren't even reading the posts I am replying to. I'm not the one who suggested that Thai ladies from a poor background would be lucky to marry a Western man. Other posters have stated that such unions produce higher quality babies owing to the superior earning power and education of these wonderful specimens from the West. If this were true then what exactly are these men getting out of the deal? Are they entering into such relationships out of the goodness of their heart in order to help the hapless Thai people?

I spent a year living in a rice farming village and much like anywhere else there were nice people and not so nice people. I don't think marrying one of them would have made a good match though as there was very little common ground. Nothing to do with a college education, I've met dozens of graduates who didn't seem to have a lot going on upstairs.

Now, if you love the farming ladies and gentlemen as much as you say you do then surely you and I are in agreement that Thai people make fine parents and don't need an injection of Western intellect to help them along.

Edited July 14, 2010 by inthepink

[Rucharee]

Incentives should be in the form of Free money. Not free sex as in Scandinavian countries.

[truethailand]

Quality children starts with responsible parents.

How many chidren are being abandoned into the care of grandparents or other relatives, and how many husbands walk out of their pregnant wives?

Arjan is spending too much time with his books and computer and lacking fieldwork.

If there was not an unwritten law that decrees the poor people of the north will be the migrant workers of Thailand the parents of these children would be home everynight with their kids. Build the &lt;deleted&gt; factories where the labour force is and not only on the land of the chosen few. How much actually gets exported from Rayong etc. Through the North there is EWEC and if governments take their foot of the development of this road it will allow industry to come North. Give the incentives for the foreign businesses to open shop up North. Silly me I thought I was back in the west for a moment, ignore this post only dreaming

[way2muchcoffee]

Quality children starts with responsible parents.

How many chidren are being abandoned into the care of grandparents or other relatives, and how many husbands walk out of their pregnant wives?

Arjan is spending too much time with his books and computer and lacking fieldwork.

If there was not an unwritten law that decrees the poor people of the north will be the migrant workers of Thailand the parents of these children would be home everynight with their kids. Build the &lt;deleted&gt; factories where the labour force is and not only on the land of the chosen few. How much actually gets exported from Rayong etc. Through the North there is EWEC and if governments take their foot of the development of this road it will allow industry to come North. Give the incentives for the foreign businesses to open shop up North. Silly me I thought I was back in the west for a moment, ignore this post only dreaming

You make valid points. More could and should be done to shift some industry up north. Feasibility would require a better infrastructure. On the other hand, Thailand competes regionally with some pretty low-cost countries. The additional transportation costs associated with an Issan-based factory or industrial park could put the cost of production up enough that Thailand can no longer be competitive in the world market. These are not easy problems to solve. The same goes for the minimum wage. It's hard to compete when most of your nearest neighbors have lower labor costs than you.

Edited July 14, 2010 by way2muchcoffee