Prostitution : Is It Wrong To Pay For Sex ?

[cardholder]

One issue is sometimes that many men don't know that their wifes/gf's were part-timers.

I attended a Marine Corps birthday ball in North Carolina once. There was a young Marine there with his new Filipina wife. He was so happy and proud. He could be heard telling others that he was introduced to her through another Filipina who had married a Marine, and that she had been a student or shopgirl or something (I don't remember now) back in the PI.

The thing is, two Marines in my unit had bar-fined her in Olongapo. I could hear them discussing it arguing if it was her, and one actually started going over, and only her fearful look and pleading head shake made him turn back. So i am sure they were correct. And as far as I know, they never told the happy husband.

And if he was happy, then who cares what she was in the past?

True - We all have "history".

[Ulysses G.]

And if he was happy, then who cares what she was in the past?

That is it in a nutshell, but a lot of hypocrites need someone to look down on to make them feel better about their own lives.

[ChiangMaiIB]

If its wrong, I don't want to be right (sounds better in a deep, raspy voice)

[Ulysses G.]

And if he was happy, then who cares what she was in the past?

That is it in a nutshell, but a lot of hypocrites need someone to look down on to make them feel better about their own lives. Edited July 16, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[bonobo]

And if he was happy, then who cares what she was in the past?

That is it in a nutshell, but a lot of hypocrites need someone to look down on to make them feel better about their own lives.

And concerning hypocrites, IF, and I am writing IF, being a prostitute is wrong, then being a patronizer of prostitutes is equally as wrong.  It is not logical to castigate prostitutes but feel it is perfectly fine to patronize them.

[TAWP]

And if he was happy, then who cares what she was in the past?

That is it in a nutshell, but a lot of hypocrites need someone to look down on to make them feel better about their own lives.

Indeed.

I don't judge those that buy or those that sell.

Be it sex, fast food, weapons or beauty products...

[slapout]

If a ex prostitute can recognize a past john during a social gathering in military dress, or civilian dress for that matter, I would give her a A++ for recall. Many of the mates I have met in Nana or Soi cowboy, would not recognize the young lady that poured them into bed the night before, much less a month or so later. (Myself included)

If the op wanted to get some real opinions he could have got on the Southern Baptist forum (if they have one) and they would give him their take. The old way was much easier, when asked the next morning, how much? answer, 'up to you'. A purple was placed on the night stand, with explanation, it was for tuk tuk home. In my opinion, the only wrong that can be committed is paying too little (2 bits) or too much (if reports are to be believed,100,000 USD for a one night stand), either one, will probably ruin it for future potential customers and that is just not right.

[TAWP]

If a ex prostitute can recognize a past john during a social gathering in military dress, or civilian dress for that matter, I would give her a A++ for recall. Many of the mates I have met in Nana or Soi cowboy, would not recognize the young lady that poured them into bed the night before, much less a month or so later. (Myself included)

The customers in go-go bars are usually [partly] drunk, the girls are not.

And they have surprisingly good memory, it seems.

[garyk]

Well they are screwing us everyday.. So if sex were out of the equasion we would not be here plain and simple. But i think it should be FREE...

[bonobo]

If a ex prostitute can recognize a past john during a social gathering in military dress, or civilian dress for that matter, I would give her a A++ for recall. Many of the mates I have met in Nana or Soi cowboy, would not recognize the young lady that poured them into bed the night before, much less a month or so later. (Myself included)

I can remember things written down, but I can't remember a face until I have seen it a zillion times.  

On the other hand, I have had more than one masseuse at Koh San recognize me a year later and ask why I haven't been back!  Now that is recall!!!!!!  

My two Marines were arguing about it, so they weren't sure, but either she recognized them or the intent when one started over there and silently pleaded for him not to come.  That is how I interpreted it, that is.

My unit was at Olongapo for over a month, and the general modus operandi  was for the guys who played to stick with one or maybe two women during their stay. The women would suck them dry of funds after a couple days or so, but then go with them after closing without payment (showing the guy that they "really loved" them or maybe just waiting until the next payday.)

[MiG16]

Everyone pays for sex in a round about way. Even you do. Or do you live in a crazy world where girls just run around having sex with men without any dinners, movies or concerns for commitment ?

This is an oft repeated theme within this thread and leads me to wonder;

Do the men who repeat the mantra "Everyone pays for sex in a round about way" do so out of a long held conviction that this is the way of the world (something they've always believed, or believed before they came to Thailand). Is this a line of thought that came to them only after using prostitues (a rationalization of their behaviour)...

It is more like a profound realization that came to them after sleeping with a few sex workers and seeing that it was nothing like what they had been brainwashed into believing back home. What I have to wonder about is the delusions of those who try so hard to deny it.

It also has to do with their merciless former western wife doing and saying anything in the divorce to get more money.

Where their greed shows no consideration for anyone else, and we are forced to become aware of what our past relationship was really all about.

I dont think the divorce argument is limited to western women, and would apply also in whatever nationality/region/background (albeit with the exceptions in some countries /societies where women have absolutely no rights and are subject to extreme form of violence)

on the issue of men paying or not paying in whatever form, well I think I better refrain from commenting

[buddy]

And then there are wartime rapes, rape by the victors usually of the women of the vanquished. This has happened across many cultures throughout human history. So much so that it may be called normal human behavior. So we do as a species have a very dark side.

This was part of the conquest process with a very practical use.

To assimilate a conquered people you kill the men and children then impregnate the women. It means the next generation will become your people and not a conquered people. Lions do the same thing when they take over a pride.

Too true.

In the year 2010 assimilation is still being used as a weapon by the Chinese Government today against the indigenous population in Tibet.

A tibetan Widow is not allowed to remarry a tibetan man, only a chinese man.

Also huge incentives are provided by the Chinese Government to Chinese immigrants that will slowly outnumber the local population. these one-sided benefits make the average Tibetan male poor and less attractive to Tibetan females as a marriage proposition, therefore encouraging mixed marriages.

All part of the conquering of Tibet that started with the Chinese communist invasion in the 1950's.

In another 50 years when it China's turn again to host the Olympic games, there wont be any protests coming from Tibet.

Sad.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Got to this topic late.

What a silly question. It's of course wrong to NOT pay for sex when it's expected.

[MB1]

Sorry to have the break it to you buddy, but yes, she was/is a prostitute, NO thai lady would sleep with a guy on the first night, and NO thai lady would ask for money, some will disagree with me but after 22 years in thailand i have a fair idea of how thailand and the ladies operate,

Thats just your opinion mate. As far as I am concerned, prostitutes are the ones that get paid for half hour flings and such, or massage girls.

Not the girls that get a boyfriend for an extended period of time and receive the benefits that a boyfriend typically bares.

So in your opinion if you take a girl for an extended period of time and you give her money as you have done in other posts she aint a prostitute, okay you keep thinking that way, up to you, you choose as I don't want to burst your bubble.

Quick question for you though, when you left the girl (your 4 week girlfreind)) and you go back to work, what if she go's and does the same thing again for an extended period with someone else or go's short time with someone for money, what would you think of her now.?.

Edited July 16, 2010 by MB1

[mark45y]

If a ex prostitute can recognize a past john during a social gathering in military dress, or civilian dress for that matter, I would give her a A++ for recall. Many of the mates I have met in Nana or Soi cowboy, would not recognize the young lady that poured them into bed the night before, much less a month or so later. (Myself included)

The customers in go-go bars are usually [partly] drunk, the girls are not.

And they have surprisingly good memory, it seems.

A lot of go go bars in Pattaya give the girls free drinks. A lot of go go bars in Pattaya insist the girls drink the drinks. These are not drinks that are bought for them they are drinks on the house. A lot of the managers think the girls do better drunk. A lot of bars give the girls real drinks and not lady drinks when you buy them a drink. Have you ever had three girls throw up in a Taxi? I did one night in Bangkok. The driver kicked us out of the taxi. What a shock. The girls were dancers from Nana all drunk. The smaller go go's tolerate you bringing a bottle in and giving it to the girls as long as the manager gets his drinks too.

[thepanicandthevomit]

Someone, (Jingting i believe) brought up the topic of "abuses" earlier on..

I think it should be pointed out that if there were NO pay for play..ANYWHERE in the world..we would see enormous rise in the incidences of rape and other such abuses..and them not only being perpertrated on women.

This is a claim that people in support of legalized prostitution often make but one that is denounced by people working with the victims/perpetrators of sex crimes and one demonstrably wrong - evidence right on your door step here in Thailand.

Prostitution is widely and cheaply available throughout Thailand, embedded deep in the fabric of Thai society - and yet the incidence of Rape in Thailand is shockingly high.

For all sorts of understandable reasons Rape is always an under reported crime, but you need not rely on statistics. Talk to Thai women you know, if you have more than a few dozen female Thai friends you'll almost certainly find you know at least one who has been raped, and several who have at some time been sexually assaulted. Alternatively talk to your wife about rape in Thailand.

Text book criminology/psychology - Rape is not about sex, it's a crime of abuse and power.

The more imbalanced social power is in favour or men the more Rapes occur. And coincidentally the higher the incidence of prostitution.

Is there any discredited, embarrassingly naive, 60's feminist claptrap you've not swallowed? You outta be on commission. I don't know why you don't just call for the castration of all men and have done with it.

[mark45y]

So it's clear - There's a bunch of guys here who firmly hold (and are keen to express) the view that the only thing they have to offer a women is the money in their wallet.

Now I take on board the envy of rich kids in the neighbourhood, and getting shafted in the divorce courts - but surely these things have not completely 'castrated' men to the point they believe they cannot offer a woman anything but money.

I mean that is the message here isn't it? Guys who can't deal with a woman unless she's under a financial contract to deal with the guy.

And this is precisely the harm that using prostitutes causes the men who do so. It creates, or at the very least promotes this emasculated mindset.

I think this puts the derogatory comments we often read here on TV about Western women into context.

Maybe I missed it but you don’t seem to be able to understand a simple fact. Not all men want a wife and a relationship. For those that do and resort to prostitution instead you are correct.

But, and it is a big but, for those men whatever age who don’t want a wife and family prostitution is not an emasculating experience.

I have had three wives, countless mistresses and GF’s. I am over it. I don’t want another wife.

It is not that I feel I have nothing to offer. I don’t want to offer it.

One definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting an different result.

For me, not you, but for me three strikes and your out. I am finished getting married, having kids, having a relationships and a wonderful extended family. I am finished.

I am not emasculated. I am finally sane.

[thepanicandthevomit]

Give WHAT away? Sex is never given away by women. There is always an attachment of some kind. That is the main reason why I prefer the working gals. I don't WANT an attachment later with all the tears and complaints. I've been through that far too many times

. And, I'll still say there is no one size fits all when it comes to sex. There are women who enjoy it and many who couldn't care one way or another. And others who frankly don't enjoy sex at all... despite acting like they do.

I have hesitated to post as this thread is not really Thai-related and has been on the verge of being closed (but the interest has remained high). However, Ian, I really have to disagree with you. There are plenty, and I mean plenty of women who want no commitments nor entanglements but merely an enjoyable roll in the hay.

No one size fits all is correct. And while some women certainly do use sex as the carrot for some other need of their own, and some women enjoy sex as part of bonding and a relationship, many women are just like many men. They like sex because it feels good and makes them happy.

That is just not true. There is not plenty of women who want just sex.

Of course it's not true. It's just yet more propaganda.

[sokal]

The fact that many women are attracted to the trappings of wealth makes no difference to the argument that marriage is prostitution, that a man is "paying for sex" by getting married. This would only be true where both the man and the woman are together only for sex and the exchange of money.

I disagree. The man is not going to get the sex without some wealth in both cases.

[thepanicandthevomit]

Some have come to view marriage as a pay as you lay option, which is at best tragic.

All marriages are based on the mans leverage, which is money and the womans leverage, which is sex.

That is why wealthier men have better looking wives, because these men have more money.

Its a fact

If "all" marriages are this way, then how do you explain marriages where the man doesn't work but the woman does? Or the rich woman with the poorer man? How many movie stars, for example, marry their hairdresser or bodyguard?

"All" people cannot be pigeon-holed into nice neat boxes just to corroborate someone's world view.

Of course they can. Otherwise you end up with 6,700,540,387 little boxes, and one almighty mess.

Lesson for today: stereotyping may not be perfect, but it's the best we have. Stereotyping works.

[Ulysses G.]

This is a claim that people in support of legalized prostitution often make but one that is denounced by people working with the victims/perpetrators of sex crimes .

Is there any discredited, embarrassingly naive, 60's feminist claptrap you've not swallowed? You outta be on commission. I don't know why you don't just call for the castration of all men and have done with it.

...And he refers to other men as "emasculated".

[sokal]

Sorry to have the break it to you buddy, but yes, she was/is a prostitute, NO thai lady would sleep with a guy on the first night, and NO thai lady would ask for money, some will disagree with me but after 22 years in thailand i have a fair idea of how thailand and the ladies operate,

Thats just your opinion mate. As far as I am concerned, prostitutes are the ones that get paid for half hour flings and such, or massage girls.

Not the girls that get a boyfriend for an extended period of time and receive the benefits that a boyfriend typically bares.

Calling a cow a racehorse does not make it one. It is still a cow. You can even saddle it up and take it for a ride, but it is still a cow.

But if it makes you happy to call that cow Secretariat, then no harm, no foul.

IMHO.

Any girl that has had many partners would be considered a cow in that case.

Just because some girl is not considered a prostitute does not make her a virgin. She could be some party slut that gives it away for free but still, in your mind, be considered a " Secretariat"

Is that the new virgin for you people ? A girl that has never been a "prostitute" ?

[sokal]

So it's clear - There's a bunch of guys here who firmly hold (and are keen to express) the view that the only thing they have to offer a women is the money in their wallet.

Not the only thing but when a woman has a choice between 2 guys that are equally masculine or attractive but one of them has more money, she is going to pick the guy with more money.

face facts

[sokal]

Sorry to have the break it to you buddy, but yes, she was/is a prostitute, NO thai lady would sleep with a guy on the first night, and NO thai lady would ask for money, some will disagree with me but after 22 years in thailand i have a fair idea of how thailand and the ladies operate,

Thats just your opinion mate. As far as I am concerned, prostitutes are the ones that get paid for half hour flings and such, or massage girls.

Not the girls that get a boyfriend for an extended period of time and receive the benefits that a boyfriend typically bares.

So in your opinion if you take a girl for an extended period of time and you give her money as you have done in other posts she aint a prostitute, okay you keep thinking that way, up to you, you choose as I don't want to burst your bubble.

Quick question for you though, when you left the girl (your 4 week girlfreind)) and you go back to work, what if she go's and does the same thing again for an extended period with someone else or go's short time with someone for money, what would you think of her now.?.

I gave her no money. I paid some of her bills, less bills then my brother pays for his girlfriend in the west who does not work.

[GuestHouse]

This is a claim that people in support of legalized prostitution often make but one that is denounced by people working with the victims/perpetrators of sex crimes .

Is there any discredited, embarrassingly naive, 60's feminist claptrap you've not swallowed? You outta be on commission. I don't know why you don't just call for the castration of all men and have done with it.

...And he refers to other men as "emasculated".

I refer to the act of paying for sex as self emasculation - I don't know if you'll find that in any feminist writings, but it stands the test of emasculation

The mind set is repeated over and over again in this thread, guys pouring it on thick that the only value they have to women is the money in their wallet - The only thing a women wants from them is their money, the only reason a woman would be with them is there money - Emasculated.

[Ulysses G.]

This is a claim that people in support of legalized prostitution often make but one that is denounced by people working with the victims/perpetrators of sex crimes .

Is there any discredited, embarrassingly naive, 60's feminist claptrap you've not swallowed? You outta be on commission. I don't know why you don't just call for the castration of all men and have done with it.

...And he refers to other men as "emasculated".

I refer to the act of paying for sex as self emasculation - I don't know if you'll find that in any feminist writings

You are going to LOVE Andrea Dworkin.

A commitment to sexual equality with males is a commitment to becoming the rich instead of the poor, the rapist instead of the raped, the murderer instead of the murdered.

Male supremacy is fused into the language, so that every sentence both heralds and affirms it.

Marriage as an institution developed from rape as a practice. Rape, originally defined as abduction, became marriage by capture. Marriage meant the taking was to extend in time, to be not only use of but possession of, or ownership.

Men are distinguished from women by their commitment to do violence rather than to be victimized by it.

Men have defined the parameters of every subject. All feminist arguments, however radical in intent or consequence, are with or against assertions or premises implicit in the male system, which is made credible or authentic by the power of men to name.

Men know everything - all of them - all the time - no matter how stupid or inexperienced or arrogant or ignorant they are.

- Andrea Dworkin.

Edited July 16, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[thepanicandthevomit]

Everyone pays for sex in a round about way. Even you do. Or do you live in a crazy world where girls just run around having sex with men without any dinners, movies or concerns for commitment ?

This is an oft repeated theme within this thread and leads me to wonder;

Do the men who repeat the mantra "Everyone pays for sex in a round about way" do so out of a long held conviction that this is the way of the world (something they've always believed, or believed before they came to Thailand). Is this a line of thought that came to them only after using prostitues (a rationalization of their behaviour) or do they sincerely believe that the only thing they have to offer a woman is the money in their wallet (their self emasculation having removed any thought that they might have any other value as a man)?

As ever, zzzzzz

I've NEVER seen a slim, rich, attractive girl in the UK go out with a fat, poor man. NEVER. I see the opposite all the time. The odds of an unattractive, poor, male attracting a rich, attractive female are vanishingly small. Why is this?

Are you (and the other rabid attack dog) on commission or something? Women NEVER undermine each other. NEVER. I have no problem with that at all. Yet SOME men feel the need to undermine their own sex at every opportunity. I just wonder what you get out of it?

An inflated sense of self worth - check

Moral superiority - check

A bit more 'ow's yer father from the missus as a reward - check

Anything else?

[MB1]

Not the only thing but when a woman has a choice between 2 guys that are equally masculine or attractive but one of them has more money, she is going to pick the guy with more money.

face facts

I think you need to face facts, not all women will choose the man who has more money, maybe you come from a different planet than I do, what about personality and various other things...IMO your totally wrong but please keep believing what you do, your only 26 so you have plenty of time to learn what a woman really wants from a man.

You seem to spit out plenty of facts but IMO there just your opinion which IMO are totally wrong.

I gave her no money. I paid some of her bills, less bills then my brother pays for his girlfriend in the west who does not work.

Of course you gave her money, you said so in a previous post that you gave her 3500 baht for rent, or are you trying to tell me now that you went to her landlord and paid the rent to him directly yourself.

[mark45y]

This is a claim that people in support of legalized prostitution often make but one that is denounced by people working with the victims/perpetrators of sex crimes .

Is there any discredited, embarrassingly naive, 60's feminist claptrap you've not swallowed? You outta be on commission. I don't know why you don't just call for the castration of all men and have done with it.

...And he refers to other men as "emasculated".

I refer to the act of paying for sex as self emasculation - I don't know if you'll find that in any feminist writings, but it stands the test of emasculation

The mind set is repeated over and over again in this thread, guys pouring it on thick that the only value they have to women is the money in their wallet - The only thing a women wants from them is their money, the only reason a woman would be with them is there money - Emasculated.

I get up at 6AM go to work and come home around 4. I cook dinner for myself and then write things on my computer and get up the next day and start over again. I don’t have the time for a relationship. Good Thai girls don’t have sex before marriage. If you had sex before you were married you don’t have a good Thai girl. Not only do I not have the time to court a person I don’t have the time to wait to have to have sex. I might be dead before I get laid again.

In Thailand sex goes with marriage. It is not emasculating to have sex outside of marriage for money. It is the norm. You are the abnormal person in this argument. If you don’t have sex for money in Thailand you are a freak. It is OK to be a freak I don’t dislike you for it. But don’t cast aspersions on other people like being emasculated for being normal.

[Heng]

If they accepted bits of confetti instead of grey and purple notes I'd be more than happy to pay that instead. But they only take money. Who cares what they want it for. All I know is I want to ride-ride-slip-and-slide and then go about my day (or evening) with no strings attached. Did I mention the endless variety? Who wants meat and potatoes 5 times a week? It doesn't mean I don't like meat and potatoes nor the effort required to obtain/have conversations with/enjoy the mental stimulation of/etc. meat and potatoes.

Edited July 16, 2010 by Heng