Prostitution : Is It Wrong To Pay For Sex ?

[GuestHouse]

GH: Would you prefer that those single mothers have no recourse to income?

You claim to be making no moral judgment, yet you post prolifically against paying for sex in a topic that specifically calls for one. I would have thought that calling something a "sad mess" was by definition passing a judgement.

You cite examples of human trafficking as if it were one and the same thing as prostitution.

I'm making the observation that the background of most of the women working in Thailand's sex industry is one which leaves them with few if any choices and without choice they cannot freely give consent - The issue is their lack of choice and do they have freedom of choice - in the context of this thread, is it right to buy sex from people who may not be free to give their conscent

Calling something a sad mess is indeed a judgement, is it a moral judgement or is it a judgement of the real sad mess that this industry actually is?

Human trafficking and prostitution are inextricably linked. Or do we need to dig out more news reports to demonstrate that fact?

[GuestHouse]

If you want to discuss women and child abuse just pick any and every country that has any degree of Taliban muslim control. Read something of the poor women who must wear burkas and are not allowed any schooling or medical care.

Again the argument that if you can find something worse happening elsewhere then abuse right under your nose can be ignored.

That asside, the topic is not abuse of women and chidren within extreme islamic states.

[jubby]

When I first spotted this thread a couple of weeks ago my first thoughts were <deleted>!?. What does it matter TIT !? , prostitution is so prevalent in Thai Society as sarahbloke points out that it almost makes the question irrelevent.

I was talking to a Bar Girl last night.

I had one beer in the Bar because I guess its expected of us to drink over priced Beer when in the company of these beautiful and not so beautiful girls. I was also drinking huge amounts of water with it in order to sober up. There where a few Guys in the Bar also, she made a bee line for me simply because I had bought her a 'lady drink' previously and she suspected I was an easy target.

I've always been a sucker for a pretty Girl, and pretty she surely was. She was pushy , wanted another drink, wanted me to bar fine her. I liked the girls company and found her intriuging, I'd really like to know what makes her tick.

The fact that I've never ever paid 'directly' for sex in my life (OK, maybe there was one time) would be lost on her.

I like a couple of beers but can't see the point of indulging, apart from maybe the excitement of the Chase, buts there's really no chase and after a couple of beers I'm pretty useless anyway. Sh*t, it does cross my mind, don't get me wrong. But I guess somewhere deep down I disaprove of prostitution for some reason or another.

The Girl probably thinks I'm some sort of weirdo or something, and maybe I am. I've never been able to have sex without having the emotional thing too. Thats what your right hand for. I try to explain she's better off sitting with one of the other Guys and finaly pay my Bill so I can release her from her relentless quest for my money.

Off she pops to pressure the next Guy.

Anyway, maybe I'm a hipercrite. I return home to one of my wives and lots of something I've no doubt "indirectly" paid for .

I guess different curcumstances , maybe different life experiences , maybe if I had been a soldier or something, had to go with out, I'd think differently about the whole thing. No doubt , I would have paid that Bar fine in seconds. I suspect its cheaper in the long run anyway.

More fool me ;-)

[kpmsprtd]

No need to go to the trouble of digging out more "news reports." I've already got a six-pack at hand, and I can turn out six stories in short order. I'll even include an interesting twist in each one that you won't get with the standard format articles. Let me know when and where to send them, and I'll set myself to work.

[evanson]

Someone, (Jingting i believe) brought up the topic of "abuses" earlier on..

I think it should be pointed out that if there were NO pay for play..ANYWHERE in the world..we would see enormous rise in the incidences of rape and other such abuses..and them not only being perpertrated on women.

This is a claim that people in support of legalized prostitution often make but one that is denounced by people working with the victims/perpetrators of sex crimes and one demonstrably wrong - evidence right on your door step here in Thailand.

Prostitution is widely and cheaply available throughout Thailand, embedded deep in the fabric of Thai society - and yet the incidence of Rape in Thailand is shockingly high.

For all sorts of understandable reasons Rape is always an under reported crime, but you need not rely on statistics. Talk to Thai women you know, if you have more than a few dozen female Thai friends you'll almost certainly find you know at least one who has been raped, and several who have at some time been sexually assaulted. Alternatively talk to your wife about rape in Thailand.

Text book criminology/psychology - Rape is not about sex, it's a crime of abuse and power.

The more imbalanced social power is in favour or men the more Rapes occur. And coincidentally the higher the incidence of prostitution.

Excellent post!

[spud1]

When I first spotted this thread a couple of weeks ago my first thoughts were <deleted>!?. What does it matter TIT !? , prostitution is so prevalent in Thai Society as sarahbloke points out that it almost makes the question irrelevent.

I was talking to a Bar Girl last night.

I had one beer in the Bar because I guess its expected of us to drink over priced Beer when in the company of these beautiful and not so beautiful girls. I was also drinking huge amounts of water with it in order to sober up. There where a few Guys in the Bar also, she made a bee line for me simply because I had bought her a 'lady drink' previously and she suspected I was an easy target.

I've always been a sucker for a pretty Girl, and pretty she surely was. She was pushy , wanted another drink, wanted me to bar fine her. I liked the girls company and found her intriuging, I'd really like to know what makes her tick.

The fact that I've never ever paid 'directly' for sex in my life (OK, maybe there was one time) would be lost on her.

I like a couple of beers but can't see the point of indulging, apart from maybe the excitement of the Chase, buts there's really no chase and after a couple of beers I'm pretty useless anyway. Sh*t, it does cross my mind, don't get me wrong. But I guess somewhere deep down I disaprove of prostitution for some reason or another.

The Girl probably thinks I'm some sort of weirdo or something, and maybe I am. I've never been able to have sex without having the emotional thing too. Thats what your right hand for. I try to explain she's better off sitting with one of the other Guys and finaly pay my Bill so I can release her from her relentless quest for my money.

Off she pops to pressure the next Guy.

Anyway, maybe I'm a hipercrite. I return home to one of my wives and lots of something I've no doubt "indirectly" paid for .

I guess different curcumstances , maybe different life experiences , maybe if I had been a soldier or something, had to go with out, I'd think differently about the whole thing. No doubt , I would have paid that Bar fine in seconds. I suspect its cheaper in the long run anyway.

More fool me ;-)

So how many wives have you got?

[Ulysses G.]

is it right to buy sex from people who may not be free to give their conscent

No it isn't, but as has been pointed out to you repeatedly, such people are almost non-existent in the sex industry that caters to Westerners in Thailand, so why do you keep harping on a mute point?

[cardholder]

is it right to buy sex from people who may not be free to give their conscent

No it isn't, but as has been pointed out to you repeatedly, such people are almost non-existent in the sex industry that caters to Westerners in Thailand, so why do you keep harping on a mute point?

So, should I not have bought those 2 suits and 8 shirts because (in my heart of hearts) I know someone is working against their will in a sweatshop somewhere in Bangkok ?

I am the buyer - I cannot be responsible for the 2/3rds of the iceberg that I cannot see. If a girl looks as if she is working of her own free will then I will have no hesitation in paying her bar fine.

[sokal]

Sex should be free, and not paid.

Who says you have to pay for it? A lot of sex is free. You just got to know how to get it for free!

You seem to be one of those guys that takes a girl to a restaurant and to the movies just to get into her pants. Movies and restaurants are not free, they are the cost of sex.

Never heard of going "Dutch", let me explain, the term can be used when a woman and a man share the costs, or do no women share costs...In your world....

Yeah yeah yeah, all of these guys are going on first dates, splitting the costs down the middle and getting sex. Suuuuure.

It just does not work that way and the statistics do not back that up. Look at the statistics on how many sex partners the average woman has and how many the average man has. It never computes because the men clearly lie every time. No different then some of the men commenting on this topic.

It takes a more secure guy to actually tell the truth about a topic like this then it does to just pop in and lie about how much imaginary free sex you have had.

[Ulysses G.]

It takes a more secure guy to actually tell the truth about a topic like this then it does to just pop in and lie about how much imaginary free sex you have had.

Imaginary free sex sounds better than nothing.

[sokal]

When I first spotted this thread a couple of weeks ago my first thoughts were <deleted>!?. What does it matter TIT !? , prostitution is so prevalent in Thai Society as sarahbloke points out that it almost makes the question irrelevent.

I was talking to a Bar Girl last night.

I had one beer in the Bar because I guess its expected of us to drink over priced Beer when in the company of these beautiful and not so beautiful girls. I was also drinking huge amounts of water with it in order to sober up. There where a few Guys in the Bar also, she made a bee line for me simply because I had bought her a 'lady drink' previously and she suspected I was an easy target.

I've always been a sucker for a pretty Girl, and pretty she surely was. She was pushy , wanted another drink, wanted me to bar fine her. I liked the girls company and found her intriuging, I'd really like to know what makes her tick.

The fact that I've never ever paid 'directly' for sex in my life (OK, maybe there was one time) would be lost on her.

I like a couple of beers but can't see the point of indulging, apart from maybe the excitement of the Chase, buts there's really no chase and after a couple of beers I'm pretty useless anyway. Sh*t, it does cross my mind, don't get me wrong. But I guess somewhere deep down I disaprove of prostitution for some reason or another.

The Girl probably thinks I'm some sort of weirdo or something, and maybe I am. I've never been able to have sex without having the emotional thing too. Thats what your right hand for. I try to explain she's better off sitting with one of the other Guys and finaly pay my Bill so I can release her from her relentless quest for my money.

Off she pops to pressure the next Guy.

Anyway, maybe I'm a hipercrite. I return home to one of my wives and lots of something I've no doubt "indirectly" paid for .

I guess different curcumstances , maybe different life experiences , maybe if I had been a soldier or something, had to go with out, I'd think differently about the whole thing. No doubt , I would have paid that Bar fine in seconds. I suspect its cheaper in the long run anyway.

More fool me ;-)

This is the classic example of the flawed " excitement of the chase" thing guys bring up.

Whether you know it or not you are maybe just insecure with yourself in some way and the "excitement of the chase" is really just an "excitement of the approval". You want to do it the hard way to try and prove yourself. Your ego just does not sit well with the idea of paying for sex.

You are basically saying that you would not want to be some male superstar or celebrity because there would be no "thrill of the chase".

For male celebrities there is no chase, they can have any woman they want.

[cardholder]

This is the classic example of the flawed " excitement of the chase" thing guys bring up.

Whether you know it or not you are maybe just insecure with yourself in some way and the "excitement of the chase" is really just an "excitement of the approval". You want to do it the hard way to try and prove yourself. Your ego just does not sit well with the idea of paying for sex.

You are basically saying that you would not want to be some male superstar or celebrity because there would be no "thrill of the chase".

For male celebrities there is no chase, they can have any woman they want.

For Falangs in Pattaya there is no chase, they can buy any woman they want.

[jubby]

No need to go to the trouble of digging out more "news reports." I've already got a six-pack at hand, and I can turn out six stories in short order. I'll even include an interesting twist in each one that you won't get with the standard format articles. Let me know when and where to send them, and I'll set myself to work.

I wouldn't dream of making up a story and writing about it on here. Some on here wouldn't dream of NOT making up a story. What does it matter in the big scheme of things. Post the Six stories by all means. fact or fiction it makes no difference.

[spud1]

When I first spotted this thread a couple of weeks ago my first thoughts were <deleted>!?. What does it matter TIT !? , prostitution is so prevalent in Thai Society as sarahbloke points out that it almost makes the question irrelevent.

I was talking to a Bar Girl last night.

I had one beer in the Bar because I guess its expected of us to drink over priced Beer when in the company of these beautiful and not so beautiful girls. I was also drinking huge amounts of water with it in order to sober up. There where a few Guys in the Bar also, she made a bee line for me simply because I had bought her a 'lady drink' previously and she suspected I was an easy target.

I've always been a sucker for a pretty Girl, and pretty she surely was. She was pushy , wanted another drink, wanted me to bar fine her. I liked the girls company and found her intriuging, I'd really like to know what makes her tick.

The fact that I've never ever paid 'directly' for sex in my life (OK, maybe there was one time) would be lost on her.

I like a couple of beers but can't see the point of indulging, apart from maybe the excitement of the Chase, buts there's really no chase and after a couple of beers I'm pretty useless anyway. Sh*t, it does cross my mind, don't get me wrong. But I guess somewhere deep down I disaprove of prostitution for some reason or another.

The Girl probably thinks I'm some sort of weirdo or something, and maybe I am. I've never been able to have sex without having the emotional thing too. Thats what your right hand for. I try to explain she's better off sitting with one of the other Guys and finaly pay my Bill so I can release her from her relentless quest for my money.

Off she pops to pressure the next Guy.

Anyway, maybe I'm a hipercrite. I return home to one of my wives and lots of something I've no doubt "indirectly" paid for .

I guess different curcumstances , maybe different life experiences , maybe if I had been a soldier or something, had to go with out, I'd think differently about the whole thing. No doubt , I would have paid that Bar fine in seconds. I suspect its cheaper in the long run anyway.

More fool me ;-)

This is the classic example of the flawed " excitement of the chase" thing guys bring up.

Whether you know it or not you are maybe just insecure with yourself in some way and the "excitement of the chase" is really just an "excitement of the approval". You want to do it the hard way to try and prove yourself. Your ego just does not sit well with the idea of paying for sex.

You are basically saying that you would not want to be some male superstar or celebrity because there would be no "thrill of the chase".

For male celebrities there is no chase, they can have any woman they want.

Why do you think a high percentage of men come to LOS.It;s the nearest were going to get.

[jubby]

This is the classic example of the flawed " excitement of the chase" thing guys bring up.

Whether you know it or not you are maybe just insecure with yourself in some way and the "excitement of the chase" is really just an "excitement of the approval". You want to do it the hard way to try and prove yourself. Your ego just does not sit well with the idea of paying for sex.

You are basically saying that you would not want to be some male superstar or celebrity because there would be no "thrill of the chase".

For male celebrities there is no chase, they can have any woman they want.

And I quote :-

"apart from maybe the excitement of the Chase, buts there's really no chase"

I probably wouldn't want to be a male superstar or celebrity either but not for that reason.

Maybe I do need help for my insecurities . Can I book a couple of hours Therapy with you, you do seem good at it

[mark45y]

If you want to discuss women and child abuse just pick any and every country that has any degree of Taliban muslim control. Read something of the poor women who must wear burkas and are not allowed any schooling or medical care.

Again the argument that if you can find something worse happening elsewhere then abuse right under your nose can be ignored.

That asside, the topic is not abuse of women and chidren within extreme islamic states.

Aw come on Guest house. What about the Russians. You have something in common with the Russians. You both live in Thailand and don’t do whores? Why.

And the other question since I have got your attention, if sexual abuse is as common as you say it is and I think we all know who owns the sex industry in Thailand how can you support such people by living in Thailand? Living here and contributing to the economy makes you part of the problem? Yes?

[MB1]

This is the classic example of the flawed " excitement of the chase" thing guys bring up.

Whether you know it or not you are maybe just insecure with yourself in some way and the "excitement of the chase" is really just an "excitement of the approval". You want to do it the hard way to try and prove yourself. Your ego just does not sit well with the idea of paying for sex.

You are basically saying that you would not want to be some male superstar or celebrity because there would be no "thrill of the chase".

For male celebrities there is no chase, they can have any woman they want.

For Falangs in Pattaya there is no chase, they can buy any woman they want.

No they can't buy any woman they want cardholder some are unobtainable for sex for payment, but I get your drift, you mean the one that are working and for sale.

You can get the same deal in Bangkok with those that are available and on sale, but some people prefer to label them as a "girlfreind"...

[GuestHouse]

Aw come on Guest house. What about the Russians. You have something in common with the Russians. You both live in Thailand and don’t do whores? Why.

I have a Russian neighbor who over the past year or so has brought back dozens of Thai prostitutes to his apartment. The apparition of him leaning on his latest 'carry-out' is a common sight in the lift.

Are you saying that NO Russians pay for sex with Thai prostitutes ...... Or is this another one of your Myths?!

Edited July 23, 2010 by GuestHouse

[GuestHouse]

is it right to buy sex from people who may not be free to give their conscent

No it isn't, but as has been pointed out to you repeatedly, such people are almost non-existent in the sex industry that caters to Westerners in Thailand, so why do you keep harping on a mute point?

It's been pointed out to you that there is a serious disparity between reported abuse in Thailand and actual abuse in Thailand ..... "Police not having time to investigate" .. ring any bells?

[TAWP]

Which again, has nothing to do with the topic.

The OP didn't ask "..if she has been tricked into the trade and you know it?".

[GuestHouse]

Which again, has nothing to do with the topic.

The OP didn't ask "..if she has been tricked into the trade and you know it?".

The OP didn't mention being tricked into the trade or even to being female.

But I will accept you do not know that.

[TAWP]

Which again, has nothing to do with the topic.

The OP didn't ask "..if she has been tricked into the trade and you know it?".

The OP didn't mention being tricked into the trade or even to being female.

But I will accept you do not know that.

We are not required to answer anything the question did not state or ask.

Nor are we required to defend some imaginary issue that you think overshadow the original question.

[GuestHouse]

And the other question since I have got your attention, if sexual abuse is as common as you say it is and I think we all know who owns the sex industry in Thailand how can you support such people by living in Thailand? Living here and contributing to the economy makes you part of the problem? Yes?

Urhmmmm .... No!

Unless you are telling me the multinational I work for owns Thailand's sex industry.

But you have suggested that you might know who owns Thailand's sex industry...... can you please enlighten the rest of us, or are do the arguments you present rely upon information that you have and that is denied to the rest of us?

[GuestHouse]

Which again, has nothing to do with the topic.

The OP didn't ask "..if she has been tricked into the trade and you know it?".

The OP didn't mention being tricked into the trade or even to being female.

But I will accept you do not know that.

We are not required to answer anything the question did not state or ask.

Nor are we required to defend some imaginary issue that you think overshadow the original question.

The topic is.... Prostitution : Is It Wrong To Pay For Sex ?

It is a very good example of what is known as 'an opened ended question'.

To examine, right and wrong, we surely must examine the multiple facets of 'Right and Wrong'.

Or would you prefer we only discuss points of view that you personally agree with?!

[TAWP]

Yes, that is the question. A very limited question.

Now, *if* you whish to add a declarative that you agree that it is ok to buy sex *if* the person is doing it volontarily than do so. However, you have *no* right to call out other members for saying that they think it is ok to buy sex, without adding the declarative. Nor that they by not adding it, perhapss by an oversight, support the abuse. Nor that they by saying it is ok, even with adding the declarative, is ignorant that there is abuse in some limited cases that [in your mind] makes all transactions tainted.

Do you understand?

[thaifkrlim]

it is not wrong to pay for sex only if the government pass new legislation to deter foreigners from owning or operating brothels and massage parlours, keep them away from exploiting the economies of scale in this very competitive industry through their network effort and profiting it in large sums from oversupply output, recruiting at low costs. Licences should be revoked, new licences not granted to foreigners to establish massage parlours outlets because the industry is ancient old in thailand and should be promoted to nationwide level and international level by Thai people only to protect its nationalistic values of the kind beautiful & sexy female thai born inhabitants , to boost income, revive the economy alongside the reconciliation plan, home ministry trade and commerce and respective government agencies, must act and reclaim this profitable industry , reorganise the system, protect industry only for thais, claim taxes on industry employees , establish workers union, set standards to the profession, standardised pimp fees and commission to tarriff rates, introduce code and ethics of legalised prostitution. discontinue the underground sex trade FTA, making it only available in Thailand uniqueness. & drive the japs out of the industry

[MB1]

Which again, has nothing to do with the topic.

The OP didn't ask "..if she has been tricked into the trade and you know it?".

So when rape was discussed mr member of the forum police, or are you really a mod in disguise, was that off topic, well for your info mr, a mod said it was ok and mentioned it was the way the thread had gone, so come on tell ?, who gives you the right to tell people what can be posted in a thread and what can't, infact by posting what you are, are you not off topic, and IMO trying to bait GH, trolls do that, or are you just trying to derail the thread or get it closed....<deleted> get a life some people and stop trying to be kings of the forum...

Feel free to use the report button...

Edited July 23, 2010 by MB1

[MB1]

@Sokal

Yeah yeah yeah, all of these guys are going on first dates, splitting the costs down the middle and getting sex. Suuuuure.

It just does not work that way and the statistics do not back that up. Look at the statistics on how many sex partners the average woman has and how many the average man has. It never computes because the men clearly lie every time. No different then some of the men commenting on this topic.

It takes a more secure guy to actually tell the truth about a topic like this then it does to just pop in and lie about how much imaginary free sex you have had.

Some women give sex away for free, men accept it, though in seems to be in your eyes that if a guy claims to get free he's a liar...You get better by the post....

[IanForbes]

Ah yes, the old thrill of the chase topic. No question that the thrill of the chase is lost when dealing with prostitutes. But it's also lost when married. And there is no question that the thrill of the chase heightens the excitement when meeting someone new. I'm an angler and much prefer fishing places where it takes more skill to catch wild fish with a fly, but occasionally, I'm quite happy fishing in a pay for play fishing park. I just don't want a steady diet of it. Boredom probably kills more marriage than anything. That is why prostitution is so popular with married men. Guys like Tiger Woods have gorgeous wives, but Tiger still couldn't resist sampling prostitutes and low life scheming women who prey on married men.

[MB1]

It takes a more secure guy to actually tell the truth about a topic like this then it does to just pop in and lie about how much imaginary free sex you have had.

Imaginary free sex sounds better than nothing.

Sadly it seems that some people may have only ever had imaginary free sex, or have had to pay for it with a prostitute, but the prostitute isnt really a prostitute if you label her a girlfreind . Aah well never mind, Dear John, life go's on...

Edited July 23, 2010 by MB1