Thai Students Pregnancy Bill Draws Much Controversy

[truthfulfox]

<br>In a mai ben rai culture, precautions of all sorts are given low regard. Wearing a helmet, of either type, requires a certain degree of reflection on cause and effect. <br><br>Wrong country.<br>

<br><br>the best quot ever <img src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/cheesy.gif" alt="" class="bbc_emoticon"><img src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/cheesy.gif" alt="" class="bbc_emoticon"><img src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/cheesy.gif" alt="" class="bbc_emoticon">

[TPI]

<BR>The worrying question here is whether or not politicians and civil servants are still eligible for further Education funding, <BR><BR>........................or if not eligible, what are the reasons for denying them these channels of development.<BR><BR>Rather than concentrating on ineffective measures to punish the vulnerable and to disenfranchise them,<BR>would it not be more effective to<BR><BR>1.   Ensure proper and informed effective and efficient health and sex education for the young, uncorrupted by personal religious belief.<BR><BR>2.   Acknowledge that the millions of youth living in present-day cities do not have the supportive networks of communal and village life anymore.<BR><BR>3.   Setting up a Child Support Agency with the facilities of pre- and post-birth DNA testing to establish paternity.<BR><BR>4.  Informing potential fathers of all ages and all social positions that in fathering a child will mean providing a minimum of financial support every month for that child ( say, 3,000 baht ) until they reach the age of 18 and that this legislation will be enforced by the Courts of Law and monitored independently by a U.N. delegation representing the Rights of the Child.<BR><BR><BR>.........0r if a student gets pregnant whilst attending school or University, <BR>a Government Cultural Agency could shut down the institution for 9 months or until the child is born, ( whichever is the sooner. )<BR>

<

Say again? Consider the fact that most Muslim communittes both here and o/seas see sex education as akin to devil worship.

Believe it or not young people do have communal support of some kind as it is the nature of Thai's to work together.

Looking to blame someone after the fact and then trying to impose a financial burdon on only one of the "offenders" will lead to the insanity that is practiced in Australia, where "Mum" lives with the new boyfriend and has all of her children paid for by past boyfriends (some as long as 25 years ago) while picking up pensions etc. from the Govt! Meanwhile the poor sap who can't even remember the event has his pay docked every week by the tax man to the point where he can't afford to look after his own children!

And where, pray tell, could a young student find B3000 a month?

My friend if you were to drift down to Earth and really, really think about your last comment, don't you wish you could edit it out.

Edited July 13, 2010 by TPI

[webfact]

OPINION

If it was your daughter, she'd get a second chance

By Tulsathit Taptim

Men and women are equal. Discrimination resulting from differences of origins, nationalities, languages, genders, ages, health or physical conditions, individual status, social or financial status, religious beliefs, constitutional political beliefs or education is prohibited. All citizens are entitled to support, assistance and promotion from the state when it comes to their liberty and rights. Thailand's 2007 Constitution

Did you have sex in high school or university? Be honest, because your answer may go a long way to helping society debate arguably the most controversial bill of all time. Personally, I don't think the "Juno Bill", being mooted by some people at the Public Health Ministry, to give pregnant students a second chance, will live to see daylight, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't give the issue real thought.

Tens of thousands of female students have to drop out of school or university every year due to pregnancy - either unwanted or unexpected. The bill seeks to allow them maternity leave, meaning they will no longer have to be forced out of their institutions of learning and end up languishing in informal schooling (if they still have the will to resume studying at all, that is).

The dilemma is obvious. Will a bill that is intended to salvage the futures of tens of thousands of "misled" girls lure numerous others into committing the very same mistake? The number of teens with unwanted pregnancies are already staggering despite the shame heaped upon them, so what will happen if the social barriers are lowered? If we make it easier for young people to buy cigarettes and liquor, naturally all we'll get will be an increase in the number of smokers and drinkers.

A subtle difference is, while lowering the drinking age will encourage young people to drink, allowing maternity leave is unlikely to make girls think, "Good, I should get pregnant". Will they feel freer to have sex? Maybe. Will the bill make them want a baby? No.

I don't know the real statistics but I guess most teen pregnancies are caused by carelessness or naivety. We can't really tell how many such girls are fun-loving ones who go about asking for trouble, or how many are the more innocent type who make just one mistake that proves to be more than enough. But it doesn't really matter. All girls, constitutionally, are equally entitled to assistance from the state.

In what is obviously a revolutionary piece of legislation, its Article 5 states that every individual has reproductive health and sex rights, and the rights to access information, advice and reproductive health services from public health facilities. In the not-so-distant past, this wording would have given many people a heart-attack, not just in Thailand, but many other places.

In today's world, this bill may be telling us to take another look at reality. Pre-marital sex has become an unspoken norm, and much of it is happening between students. If the annual statistic that 20 per cent of every 800,000 pregnant women are under 20 is anything to go by, we must have a fairly sexually active younger generation.

Schools have their own rules, but whether Thailand's charter should be adjusted toward them or vice versa is a no-brainer. Morally, the debate can go on, but constitutionally the girls deserve the very same rights as the men who got them into trouble. In fact, the girls deserve the same rights as every other Thai citizen.

No pun intended here, but the "Juno Bill" may be aborted. And don't get me wrong, the other side has valid points in its opposition to the bill. The big problem that I will have if the bill fails to materialise is the fact that we are a society that loves to forgive everyone else - real criminals, corrupt politicians and so on. Most of the time, genuine victims are left unprotected because, ironically, we don't want to let go of some moral "principles".

If I had a daughter, you could ask if I would want her to study in an environment where pregnant friends sit next to her or where "Juno mothers" may easily become a trend. The answer would be "No". Yet, it seems at least to me that the Juno Bill does not seek to address that question primarily.

The real question, I think, is if "Juno" was my daughter, I would want her to have a second chance, whether I would not want her to walk alone. And since my answer would be "Yes", I can't see why it has to be different when it comes to somebody else's daughter.

-- The Nation 2010-07-14

[beano2274]

Sex education is a must.

Another idea was used in America, where young girls were given a toy baby, this baby cried, needed feeding, changing everything a normal baby needs. They kept the baby for a few weeks, each time the baby needed something they had to insert a key (not too realistic), and everything was kept on a small chip inside the baby, this was then used to see if the girls were good parents, for some it was a total nightmare. The amount of pregnancies in young girls after this experiment was reduced dramatically.

I realise this would not be of any consolation to those who are raped.

[Chalky]

OPINION

If it was your daughter, she'd get a second chance

By Tulsathit Taptim

Men and women are equal. Discrimination resulting from differences of origins, nationalities, languages, genders, ages, health or physical conditions, individual status, social or financial status, religious beliefs, constitutional political beliefs or education is prohibited. All citizens are entitled to support, assistance and promotion from the state when it comes to their liberty and rights. Thailand's 2007 Constitution

Did you have sex in high school or university? Be honest, because your answer may go a long way to helping society debate arguably the most controversial bill of all time. Personally, I don't think the "Juno Bill", being mooted by some people at the Public Health Ministry, to give pregnant students a second chance, will live to see daylight, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't give the issue real thought.

Tens of thousands of female students have to drop out of school or university every year due to pregnancy - either unwanted or unexpected. The bill seeks to allow them maternity leave, meaning they will no longer have to be forced out of their institutions of learning and end up languishing in informal schooling (if they still have the will to resume studying at all, that is).

The dilemma is obvious. Will a bill that is intended to salvage the futures of tens of thousands of "misled" girls lure numerous others into committing the very same mistake? The number of teens with unwanted pregnancies are already staggering despite the shame heaped upon them, so what will happen if the social barriers are lowered? If we make it easier for young people to buy cigarettes and liquor, naturally all we'll get will be an increase in the number of smokers and drinkers.

A subtle difference is, while lowering the drinking age will encourage young people to drink, allowing maternity leave is unlikely to make girls think, "Good, I should get pregnant". Will they feel freer to have sex? Maybe. Will the bill make them want a baby? No.

I don't know the real statistics but I guess most teen pregnancies are caused by carelessness or naivety. We can't really tell how many such girls are fun-loving ones who go about asking for trouble, or how many are the more innocent type who make just one mistake that proves to be more than enough. But it doesn't really matter. All girls, constitutionally, are equally entitled to assistance from the state.

In what is obviously a revolutionary piece of legislation, its Article 5 states that every individual has reproductive health and sex rights, and the rights to access information, advice and reproductive health services from public health facilities. In the not-so-distant past, this wording would have given many people a heart-attack, not just in Thailand, but many other places.

In today's world, this bill may be telling us to take another look at reality. Pre-marital sex has become an unspoken norm, and much of it is happening between students. If the annual statistic that 20 per cent of every 800,000 pregnant women are under 20 is anything to go by, we must have a fairly sexually active younger generation.

Schools have their own rules, but whether Thailand's charter should be adjusted toward them or vice versa is a no-brainer. Morally, the debate can go on, but constitutionally the girls deserve the very same rights as the men who got them into trouble. In fact, the girls deserve the same rights as every other Thai citizen.

No pun intended here, but the "Juno Bill" may be aborted. And don't get me wrong, the other side has valid points in its opposition to the bill. The big problem that I will have if the bill fails to materialise is the fact that we are a society that loves to forgive everyone else - real criminals, corrupt politicians and so on. Most of the time, genuine victims are left unprotected because, ironically, we don't want to let go of some moral "principles".

If I had a daughter, you could ask if I would want her to study in an environment where pregnant friends sit next to her or where "Juno mothers" may easily become a trend. The answer would be "No". Yet, it seems at least to me that the Juno Bill does not seek to address that question primarily.

The real question, I think, is if "Juno" was my daughter, I would want her to have a second chance, whether I would not want her to walk alone. And since my answer would be "Yes", I can't see why it has to be different when it comes to somebody else's daughter.

-- The Nation 2010-07-14

So N.I.M.B.Y's have come to Thailand!

The author/journalist does not want her "daughter" to be discrimated against if she "makes a mistake" but with the previous breath does not want others who have made a similar "mistake" to sit next to her daughter.

T.I.T.W. (The World!)

[Rucharee]

OPINION

If it was your daughter, she'd get a second chance

By Tulsathit Taptim

Men and women are equal. Discrimination resulting from differences of origins, nationalities, languages, genders, ages, health or physical conditions, individual status, social or financial status, religious beliefs, constitutional political beliefs or education is prohibited. All citizens are entitled to support, assistance and promotion from the state when it comes to their liberty and rights. Thailand's 2007 Constitution

Did you have sex in high school or university? Be honest, because your answer may go a long way to helping society debate arguably the most controversial bill of all time. Personally, I don't think the "Juno Bill", being mooted by some people at the Public Health Ministry, to give pregnant students a second chance, will live to see daylight, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't give the issue real thought.

Tens of thousands of female students have to drop out of school or university every year due to pregnancy - either unwanted or unexpected. The bill seeks to allow them maternity leave, meaning they will no longer have to be forced out of their institutions of learning and end up languishing in informal schooling (if they still have the will to resume studying at all, that is).

The dilemma is obvious. Will a bill that is intended to salvage the futures of tens of thousands of "misled" girls lure numerous others into committing the very same mistake? The number of teens with unwanted pregnancies are already staggering despite the shame heaped upon them, so what will happen if the social barriers are lowered? If we make it easier for young people to buy cigarettes and liquor, naturally all we'll get will be an increase in the number of smokers and drinkers.

A subtle difference is, while lowering the drinking age will encourage young people to drink, allowing maternity leave is unlikely to make girls think, "Good, I should get pregnant". Will they feel freer to have sex? Maybe. Will the bill make them want a baby? No.

I don't know the real statistics but I guess most teen pregnancies are caused by carelessness or naivety. We can't really tell how many such girls are fun-loving ones who go about asking for trouble, or how many are the more innocent type who make just one mistake that proves to be more than enough. But it doesn't really matter. All girls, constitutionally, are equally entitled to assistance from the state.

In what is obviously a revolutionary piece of legislation, its Article 5 states that every individual has reproductive health and sex rights, and the rights to access information, advice and reproductive health services from public health facilities. In the not-so-distant past, this wording would have given many people a heart-attack, not just in Thailand, but many other places.

In today's world, this bill may be telling us to take another look at reality. Pre-marital sex has become an unspoken norm, and much of it is happening between students. If the annual statistic that 20 per cent of every 800,000 pregnant women are under 20 is anything to go by, we must have a fairly sexually active younger generation.

Schools have their own rules, but whether Thailand's charter should be adjusted toward them or vice versa is a no-brainer. Morally, the debate can go on, but constitutionally the girls deserve the very same rights as the men who got them into trouble. In fact, the girls deserve the same rights as every other Thai citizen.

No pun intended here, but the "Juno Bill" may be aborted. And don't get me wrong, the other side has valid points in its opposition to the bill. The big problem that I will have if the bill fails to materialise is the fact that we are a society that loves to forgive everyone else - real criminals, corrupt politicians and so on. Most of the time, genuine victims are left unprotected because, ironically, we don't want to let go of some moral "principles".

If I had a daughter, you could ask if I would want her to study in an environment where pregnant friends sit next to her or where "Juno mothers" may easily become a trend. The answer would be "No". Yet, it seems at least to me that the Juno Bill does not seek to address that question primarily.

The real question, I think, is if "Juno" was my daughter, I would want her to have a second chance, whether I would not want her to walk alone. And since my answer would be "Yes", I can't see why it has to be different when it comes to somebody else's daughter.

-- The Nation 2010-07-14

So N.I.M.B.Y's have come to Thailand!

The author/journalist does not want her "daughter" to be discrimated against if she "makes a mistake" but with the previous breath does not want others who have made a similar "mistake" to sit next to her daughter.

T.I.T.W. (The World!)

"Tens of thousands of female students have to drop out of school or university every year due to pregnancy - either unwanted or unexpected."

Is this a fact?

A dozen or so is more likely, and I mean for the whole of Thailand.

[Bruce1]

I reckon if my daughter had to sit next to a pregnant student she would be LESS likely to get pregnant, not more.

I also notice the current law banning pregnant girls says nothing about the fathers of those babies being made to take responsibility for the results of their actions. That seems discriminatory.

The bill should be passed and girls should not be discriminated against because of reproduction.

[seanocasey]

It can be argued that the current policy of expelling pregnant students is against the law, as Thailand is signatory to the convention on the rights of the child.

I have respect for mister Wallop, but think he is wrong. The best protection for students against early pregnancy is education, which should be mandatory. Now parents complane if their children get educated about birth control and sex.

I agree that there is a need to deal with the underlying causes of such an astonishing number of pregnancies in young (let's face it) children! We see so many youngsters carrying their small children around with them (and struggling to do so, given that many of them are not that much bigger themselves)! By sending out a signal that students will be allowed to take time out to care for their children, this is also sending out an indirect signal that it is okay for such students to become pregnant anywhere from 15 onwards. It would be far better to provide appropriate education as a sufficiently early stage in an effort to reduce the number of teenage pregnancies.

Finally some sensible legislation comes out of Parliament.

The worrying question here is whether or not politicians and civil servants are still eligible for further Education funding,

........................or if not eligible, what are the reasons for denying them these channels of development.

Rather than concentrating on ineffective measures to punish the vulnerable and to disenfranchise them,

would it not be more effective to

1. Ensure proper and informed effective and efficient health and sex education for the young, uncorrupted by personal religious belief.

2. Acknowledge that the millions of youth living in present-day cities do not have the supportive networks of communal and village life anymore.

3. Setting up a Child Support Agency with the facilities of pre- and post-birth DNA testing to establish paternity.

4. Informing potential fathers of all ages and all social positions that in fathering a child will mean providing a minimum of financial support every month for that child ( say, 3,000 baht ) until they reach the age of 18 and that this legislation will be enforced by the Courts of Law and monitored independently by a U.N. delegation representing the Rights of the Child.

.........0r if a student gets pregnant whilst attending school or University,

a Government Cultural Agency could shut down the institution for 9 months or until the child is born, ( whichever is the sooner. )

I am without sadness as I see so much pain.