Foreign Editorials Miss The Point On The Cause Of Thailand Crisis

[Insight]

Thanks for (finally) providing some real info other than the usual "snouts in the trough" accusations. I'm glad you do find it hard work - backing up vague claims often is. Frankly the levels of graft you highlight pales to the situation 5+ years ago, and all attempts appear to be getting a pretty tough time in the media yet the media is not being sued for billions with journalists being investigated for corruption. I was personally close to people aware of the corruption involved in the BJT hospital fund scandals and was pleased to see the Dems can it (as were the people aware), and hope all other uncovered attempts of graft go the same way. As mentioned, I would be far less optimistic of the same thing happening several years ago.

The "bloody hard work" remark was meant to be a joke. There is plenty of in-depth info and discussion about corruption in today's Thailand available here and elsewhere. responding to the constant demands for it starts to turn these threads into something resembling a telephone directory. Don't any of you apologists for the current regime ever read any of it? The current level of graft pales in comparison heh? In the cases of both the buses and fighter jets, detailed analysis of the maths shows around 30% graft for both. This amounts to around 20 billion baht/400 million quid/600 million dollars for the buses alone. This is small time, is it? Yeah, right .

Again, how much of the figures mentioned above have actually been approved, as of today?

[Siam Simon]

Thanks for (finally) providing some real info other than the usual "snouts in the trough" accusations. I'm glad you do find it hard work - backing up vague claims often is. Frankly the levels of graft you highlight pales to the situation 5+ years ago, and all attempts appear to be getting a pretty tough time in the media yet the media is not being sued for billions with journalists being investigated for corruption. I was personally close to people aware of the corruption involved in the BJT hospital fund scandals and was pleased to see the Dems can it (as were the people aware), and hope all other uncovered attempts of graft go the same way. As mentioned, I would be far less optimistic of the same thing happening several years ago.

The "bloody hard work" remark was meant to be a joke. There is plenty of in-depth info and discussion about corruption in today's Thailand available here and elsewhere. responding to the constant demands for it starts to turn these threads into something resembling a telephone directory. Don't any of you apologists for the current regime ever read any of it? The current level of graft pales in comparison heh? In the cases of both the buses and fighter jets, detailed analysis of the maths shows around 30% graft for both. This amounts to around 20 billion baht/400 million quid/600 million dollars for the buses alone. This is small time, is it? Yeah, right .

Again, how much of the figures mentioned above have actually been approved, as of today?

The buses deal was approved last September. You ask for proof, even though it's easy to find, I go to the trouble of doing your groundwork for you and providing you with it, then you ignore the proof and ask again! What's the matter with you? I will ask (note the word 'ask', not 'accuse') you again: Are you paid to post here?

[Insight]

The "bloody hard work" remark was meant to be a joke. There is plenty of in-depth info and discussion about corruption in today's Thailand available here and elsewhere. responding to the constant demands for it starts to turn these threads into something resembling a telephone directory. Don't any of you apologists for the current regime ever read any of it? The current level of graft pales in comparison heh? In the cases of both the buses and fighter jets, detailed analysis of the maths shows around 30% graft for both. This amounts to around 20 billion baht/400 million quid/600 million dollars for the buses alone. This is small time, is it? Yeah, right .

Again, how much of the figures mentioned above have actually been approved, as of today?

The buses deal was approved last September. You ask for proof, even though it's easy to find, I go to the trouble of doing your groundwork for you and providing you with it, then you ignore the proof and ask again! What's the matter with you? I will ask (note the word 'ask', not 'accuse') you again: Are you paid to post here?

Thanks for pointing me in the direction of that source. About the BMTA scheme, I'm pretty sure I can get away with quoting this from 11th July 2010:

However, cabinet said the BMTA could go ahead with the project only after it comes up with a clear early retirement scheme for staff, and provides plans for an electronic ticketing system, Mr Abhisit said.

Article is about BMA not following up on conditions laid out by cabinet. Pretty pro-active response IMHO - doesn't seem like it's getting such easy ride.

Regarding this groundless silly paid-to-post question: answer is no, absolutely not (as stated above). Why, are you? You seem moderately intelligent (if somewhat antagonistic). What's your excuse for supporting a cause intent on tearing the country apart?

Edited July 25, 2010 by Insight

[Insight]

Have I hit a nerve?

[SpoliaOpima]

Does it ever occur to apologists for the reactionary clique that controls Thailand that there is something rather odd in the fact that every reputable international media outlet somehow doesn't "get it" about Thailand?

Does it ever occur to Tai Rouge apologists that maybe international media news analysis might very well be wrong, as has been the case many times in the past?

Hitler and the rise of the Nazis was widely misreported in the American and British press in the 1930s, ditto the rise of the Khmer Rouge in 1975.

[zzaa09]

Does it ever occur to apologists for the reactionary clique that controls Thailand that there is something rather odd in the fact that every reputable international media outlet somehow doesn't "get it" about Thailand?

Does it ever occur to Tai Rouge apologists that maybe international media news analysis might very well be wrong, as has been the case many times in the past?

Hitler and the rise of the Nazis was widely misreported in the American and British press in the 1930s, ditto the rise of the Khmer Rouge in 1975.

So you're equating the UDD and political associates with the possibilities of a rising suppressive regime?

[jayboy]

Does it ever occur to apologists for the reactionary clique that controls Thailand that there is something rather odd in the fact that every reputable international media outlet somehow doesn't "get it" about Thailand?

Does it ever occur to Tai Rouge apologists that maybe international media news analysis might very well be wrong, as has been the case many times in the past?

Hitler and the rise of the Nazis was widely misreported in the American and British press in the 1930s, ditto the rise of the Khmer Rouge in 1975.

Leaving aside the crude abuse (Tai Rouge apologists) of those who challenge your view as well as the infantile and absurd historical comparison, I agree it's possible that one or two respected international media sources might get it wrong - but all of them? Get real.

[march]

jayboy:

Leaving aside the crude abuse

Indeed. In the context of your own description of other posters, that's rich.

A very short sampling. There's loads more:

feral posters with their inane bleating

slimy rednecks

This is obviously an extreme form of intellectual impoverishment

always amusing to mock the huge band of retired sexpats

[Siam Simon]

jayboy:

Leaving aside the crude abuse

Indeed. In the context of your own description of other posters, that's rich.

A very short sampling. There's loads more:

feral posters with their inane bleating

slimy rednecks

This is obviously an extreme form of intellectual impoverishment

always amusing to mock the huge band of retired sexpats

John, now that your Hideki persona has been banned, how do you decide between your March and ThaksinKharma personas to make your posts?

[jayboy]

jayboy:

Leaving aside the crude abuse

Indeed. In the context of your own description of other posters, that's rich.

A very short sampling. There's loads more:

feral posters with their inane bleating

slimy rednecks

This is obviously an extreme form of intellectual impoverishment

always amusing to mock the huge band of retired sexpats

John, now that your Hideki persona has been banned, how do you decide between your March and ThaksinKharma personas to make your posts?

Let him be.As the great Frankie Howerd observed "one shouldn't mock the afflicted".It's sad however that someone could be bothered to trawl through posts just to make a feeble point,in most cases taking mild invective out of context.And in any case I would robustly maintain there is a lot of harmless pleasure in mocking the army of retired sexpats.

[way2muchcoffee]

And in any case I would robustly maintain there is a lot of harmless pleasure in mocking the army of retired sexpats.

Please realize that when you do so you lower your own status to something only slightly above that of a trailer trash schoolyard bully.

Jayboy, you have interesting ideas and post reasonable arguments. Whether I agree with you are not I am always interested in your comments. You unfortunately have a nasty habit of heaping crude abuse on others.

Edited August 3, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[SamritT]

For domestic issues, no one beats Thai editorials.

[jayboy]

And in any case I would robustly maintain there is a lot of harmless pleasure in mocking the army of retired sexpats.

Please realize that when you do so you lower your own status to something only slightly above that of a trailer trash schoolyard bully.

Jayboy, you have interesting ideas and post reasonable arguments. Whether I agree with you are not I am always interested in your comments. You unfortunately have a nasty habit of heaping crude abuse on others.

I really don't mean to be a bully.But surely you are not saying that a little teasing is out of place, especially when the targets are so numerous and ludicrous?How can one walk down Lower Sukhumvit or anywhere in Pattaya and not snigger to oneself? And why are so many of them fat?

[yoshiwara]

And in any case I would robustly maintain there is a lot of harmless pleasure in mocking the army of retired sexpats.

Please realize that when you do so you lower your own status to something only slightly above that of a trailer trash schoolyard bully.

Jayboy, you have interesting ideas and post reasonable arguments. Whether I agree with you are not I am always interested in your comments. You unfortunately have a nasty habit of heaping crude abuse on others.

I really don't mean to be a bully.But surely you are not saying that a little teasing is out of place, especially when the targets are so numerous and ludicrous?How can one walk down Lower Sukhumvit or anywhere in Pattaya and not snigger to oneself? And why are so many of them fat?

There is a saying that 'if you are in a hole stop digging'.

[jayboy]

And in any case I would robustly maintain there is a lot of harmless pleasure in mocking the army of retired sexpats.

Please realize that when you do so you lower your own status to something only slightly above that of a trailer trash schoolyard bully.

Jayboy, you have interesting ideas and post reasonable arguments. Whether I agree with you are not I am always interested in your comments. You unfortunately have a nasty habit of heaping crude abuse on others.

I really don't mean to be a bully.But surely you are not saying that a little teasing is out of place, especially when the targets are so numerous and ludicrous?How can one walk down Lower Sukhumvit or anywhere in Pattaya and not snigger to oneself? And why are so many of them fat?

There is a saying that 'if you are in a hole stop digging'.

But sometimes blundering on is so delicious.

[GarryP]

Yes, blunder on we shall. Perhaps some do miss the point and perhaps some don't. A lot of the Thai editorials miss the point too, but that is more likely to be intended depending on the color of the publishers.

What gets me is the number of posters who spout on ad nauseam on their red or yellow soap boxes as to who is wrong and who is right, blah, blah, blah. The situation is clearly not black and white and there are hundreds of shades of gray involved. The average foreigner in Thailand, however, doesn't have enough of a grasp of the Thai language to understand this. His view is very superficial (and it could not be any other way). He must rely on the English language press (yellow for the most part) or be indoctrinated by his missus (usually red).

Claims that overseas editorials miss the point purely on the basis that they do not conform to what has been learned from reading the local English language press are not necessarily valid. How independent do you believe the local press is? It has to follow the gov't line you know.