Thai Immigration Cancells Visa And Blacklists Composer Mickhail Pletnev

[balo]

So his mothers birthday is coming up ?

I'm sure he will be surprised when he finds out he will never go back to Thailand....

[anotheruser]

So they blacklisted him and will deport him but they approved his trip to go to see his Mother? Something isn't making sense here.

[moetownblues]

If this story is in fact true, it makes a total mockery of justice in Thailand. Might this be because Pletnev has shown he will fight the case in Court and the authorities are so incensed by the international media response (which has highlighted the fact that Thailand is a haven for pedophiles rather than the efforts of the country to clean up its act) that they literally want the case and Pletnev to disappear? Wherever he is now, he cannot get back to Thailand and report back to the Court as ordered. So he is doubly damned. Accused of being a pedophile and treated as one without any shred of evidence being brought out in Court! Yet not even allowed to prove his innocence (if that is the case). What makes this even more disgraceful is that the Immigration Chief has acted before getting a reply from the "Child and Women Unit". I am shocked and appalled.

MAYBE WE SHOULD WAIT UNTIL HE IS CONVICTED ? JUST A THOUGHT LA !.....

Perfectly fair point. But it seems the Thai Justice System will not even give him that opportunity! I hope there is an international outcry over this.

They have already decided he is guilty. So why did he come back and what is the court case about?

[moetownblues]

So before even being found guilty these %% treat him like he is.........so much for the fair treatment rulling

In Thailand You are Guilty until you are proven innocent.

No different from anywhere else, UK is the same now, you are treated and assumed as being guilty until YOU can prove you are innocent.

That is not the official/Judiciary view,or Law in the UK.

Australia you are innocent until the legal system proves that you are guilty. The defendant doe's not have to prove innocence the courts have to prove guilt beyond all resonable doubt.

[Naam]

Assuming he beats the charges (there are strong hints in this latest news that he will) and he is kicked out Thailand, won't he have to forfeit all his massive assets here? Do the math.

Pattaya Immigration will take care of that

= mere assumptions, not based on facts but on thai-phobia

p.s. please list all those "massive" assets.

[bangkokbruce]

I'm never surprised at anything anymore after living in Thailand off and on for 35 years. The only winner here will be the attorneys. This is the thanks he gets for bringing in thousands of baht into the Thai economy and employing several Thai's. This is just another reason not to invest in Pattaya. It's no wonder business is down so much there.

Choke Dee Mr. Pletnev

[moetownblues]

If they follow this to the letter of the law then it will make a huge dent in tourism. Why not situate the new Transnational Crime Data Center at one end of Walking Street in Pattaya then every single male who is not in the company of a spouse could easily be rounded up and processed. After all it would fit the criteria of "Reasonable belief that he is there to procure a woman / ladyboy for the purpose of prostitution."

Blacklisted under Section 12 of the Immigration Act

8. Reason to believe that entrance into the Kingdom was for the purpose of being involved in prostitution, the trading of woman of children, drug smuggling, or other types of smuggling which are contrary to the public morality.

Section 9 of the 'Prostitution Prevention and Suppression Act' states

'Whoever

procures

, seduces, or traffics the

other person to commit the act of prostitution

, even with consent of the other person, no matter whether the commission of various acts which constitute the offence are committed inside or outside the territory of the Kingdom, shall be punished with imprisonment of one to ten years and an fine of twenty thousand to two hundred thousand baht.

.

[iko]

If they follow this to the letter of the law then it will make a huge dent in tourism. Why not situate the new Transnational Crime Data Center at one end of Walking Street in Pattaya then every single male who is not in the company of a spouse could easily be rounded up and processed. After all it would fit the criteria of "Reasonable belief that he is there to procure a woman / ladyboy for the purpose of prostitution."

Blacklisted under Section 12 of the Immigration Act

8. Reason to believe that entrance into the Kingdom was for the purpose of being involved in prostitution, the trading of woman of children, drug smuggling, or other types of smuggling which are contrary to the public morality.

Section 9 of the 'Prostitution Prevention and Suppression Act' states

'Whoever

procures

, seduces, or traffics the

other person to commit the act of prostitution

, even with consent of the other person, no matter whether the commission of various acts which constitute the offence are committed inside or outside the territory of the Kingdom, shall be punished with imprisonment of one to ten years and an fine of twenty thousand to two hundred thousand baht.

Well, also those in company of a spouse....What reasons do you have to go to pattaya, prostitution aside? The guy received an excellent tratment to me and was very lucky not to be behind bars right now. He's also most likely guilty (how do I know? Experience). Maybe the only mistake thais are committing is leaving this guy at large (him and his "instument").

[geriatrickid]

Luckily for TaT and developers, most foreigners;

1. Are oblivious to the the Thai juduicial environment and/or

2. Assume it won't happen to them.

The accused should be allowed a fair trial.

[Tatsujin]

Perhaps someone who understands Thai law better than myself can clarify or confirm, but I was of the understanding that any foreigner who is charged or arrested automatically has their Visa revoked/cancelled and also is automatically blacklisted. I'm assuming also then that if that person is found Not Guilty after a Trial, they are then able to have this reversed.

I did some research for those that are interested (click here) . . . don't know how accurate it is but seems like #6 and #7 would apply in this case.

Good post I would tend to put 8 on the list also.

"it seems" the two of you are reading a very different link to me:

6. Having been imprisoned by the judgment of the Thai Court ….

7. Having behavior which would indicated possible danger to the public ….. or being under warrant of arrest by competent officials of foreign governments.

8. Reason to believe that entrance into the Kingdom was for the purpose of being involved in prostitution, the trading of woman of children, drug smuggling, or other types of smuggling which are contrary to the public morality.

He hasn't been imprisoned (or even judged) by a Thai Court, there is no mention of any foreign warrant out for his arrest, nor of his being a danger to the general public, a drug smuggler, or involved in the sex trade.

Maybe you can conjure up something else out of thin air.

Sorry you are rite he is not guilty of 6 I would like to commend you for reading the article although as you will see I disagree with you. Funny no one else picked up on that number 6.

Perhaps you should reread 7 and 8 they say nothing about

beaning imprisoned (or even judged) by a Thai Court, there is no mention of any foreign warrant out for his arrest, nor of his being a danger to the general public, a drug smuggler, or involved in the sex trade.

As has already been shown on this thread he has been charged in another country more than once. Now he is living in the city noted for this kind of activity in another country. With a record like his back in Russia why did he move to that kind of city. Seems suspicious to me.

Yes he has not been convicted but with his track record I would not let him baby sit my kids. Seems kind of funny every body hollering that he hasn't been found guilty yet well I am here to tell you he has not been found innocent yet. And unless people would let him baby sit there kids with out giving it a second thought I would suggest they say nothing. Just a suggestion.:jap:

Jeez, you guys don't "read" things properly. In my post I asked if others who knew Thai law better could answer WHY he has been blacklisted. The only information I had found was the link I posted and I don't know the accuracy of that information. From my (limited) research, it seems to me that any Immigration Official can make the statement that someone is doing something that is detrimental to Thailand, that then means they can and will be blacklisted automatically (kind of like what has happened in this case, no????) because of this Officials 'belief'.

As I said, I'm still waiting for someone with a better understanding of the Thai legal system to clarify, but so far no takers, just the typical uninformed, opinionated bias from the usual TV posters.

I wait in hope . . .

[Will27]

with the revokation of the visa he wont be able to leave the country until the case is finished. It doesn't matter if the visa is revoked or not. The court may not grant another leave for these reasons until the case is finished.

What do you base this on?

Since when does not having a visa

preclude anyone from leaving a country?

Regards

Will

[jayjay0]

Who really gives a dam_n what a Russian Ambassador has to say? The Russians are taking over organised crime all over Thailand. Do you think these rich Russians who were Communists and some former KGB officers word is worth a dam_n?! If you think Thailand is crooked, try Russia where every citizen is terrified of the police & the court system. How many tens of thousands of Russians do you thing are in the Russian prisons where they guards turn their heads and allow rape and murder every single day? Russia is not part of the West and cannot be compared, even with Thailand where people have many more rights than the average Russian. But, this guy is a rich Russian and expects to be treated as royalty in Thailand just as he has been treated in Russia.

You really amaze and amuse me sometimes Grey 13.

The fact that the guy we are talking about is Russian is irrelevant, he could be of any nationality.

It's the Thai authorities handling of this case is what this is all about, not how many Russians are mafia members.

We all know about the Russian mafia but that doesn't mean all Russians belongs to it.

I would think Grey13 share is relevant in that it talks about the lack of justice in Russia. There has been reports on Television about the police corruption there. This would have a bearing in the fact that he has been charged and found not guilty twice in Russia. Pretty hard to blindly accept his innocence out of a system such as that. Not to mention his close association with Putin. A national hero musically wide. No surprise he was found not guilty and no surprise out of all the places in the world he could move to he chose a city with a reputation for that kind of behavior.

[nikster]

Thinking that the guy is innocent just cause he came back to thailand is a bit too much. I'm not a cops fan, but i seriously doubt that an innocent man is pedo-charged for nothing. I guess most of us think the same here (thai legal system aside...)

That's wrong thinking then. It's innocent until proven guilty for very good reasons. People might be framed. Young girls have invented horrific rape charges out of thin air. People might want to get the guy out of the country for one reason or another. Strange stuff happens - who knows. He didn't run so that at least means there is no solid case against him.

Thailand has once again proven to the world that law and order mean nothing here. That this is a banana republic. I really wonder how the politicians in this country can let immigration get away with these kind of shenanigans.

[ricardofel]

Guilty or innocent...Pletnev did exactly what Taksin did.....he was able to flee the country due to incompetent officials who allowed him to leave. And like Taksin as soon as he landed claimed he was innocent and it was a conspiracy. They must be brothers (taksin & pletnev).

[hhiser]

Sorry, I'm reading this development a different way...

If he's blacklisted and has his visa canceled, he'd either have to leave the country, or be actively deported by the Thai authorities, and be unable legally to return.

In that case, he'd never be present for the completion of the pending legal proceedings. So I'm not sure how the case could proceed to a verdict in those circumstances.

It seems rather a way of Thailand getting rid of the guy without having to put a prominent Russian artist on trial.... If true, that would seem to benefit a fair number of different interests in this mess.

...leaving aside the question of whether the guy is guilty or innocent. He's been accused before, so this episode would just be another one added to the list.

Trial in absentia

in absentia (in ab-sensh-ee-ah) adj. or adv. phrase. Latin for "in absence," or more fully, in one's absence. Occasionally a criminal trial is conducted without the defendant being present when he/she walks out or escapes after the trial has begun, since the accused has thus waived the Constitutional right to face one's accusers. 

I am guessing that if he is deported then the trial could precede if the Thai court system interprets his being deported as "walking out".

[jayjay0]

I think this thread has opened my eyes to the type of posting that goes on here, seems to be

1, check email

2, check for news clippings from thai visa

3, reply with [outrage, incredulousness, pomposity, moderator warning, agreement, new slant, here we go again,moderator warning, on-topic post(generally ignored), defence,attack,more defence,vitriolic attack(occasionally removed), Thai defence, on-topic post(generally ignored), humour,falang defence,vitriolic attack(occasionally removed),on-topic post(generally ignored), moderator warning, more Falang defence, post totally ignoring the first 3 pages], and......I think we are back to outrage again.........or could we see another quick Vitriolic attack before the obligatory 'news update by George',

Ok so lets go through that,

I have yet to see a credible (non expired) link to Pletnevs 'previous charges'

how can I say this to the 35% of posters, ahh I know, HE IS BACK IN THE COUNTRY !!,

Thai law allows Convicted criminals to be deported and have visa's cancelled, Sure they can cancel his visa anytime, it is the right of the issuing country, but as he hasnt been convicted of anything, or shown to have done anything detrimental to the country, then where is the rational??

The only current 'evidence' that is proven, would be considered hearsay in many other countries courts.

and just for the record, my personal pet hate................

for the last 12 years, we have seen lots and lots of front page pictures on "pattaya mail" et al, of farangs caught "in flagrante delicto" with young boys or the occasional young girl....has anyone seen a 3-6 month follow up in the same newspaper detailing their conviction and incarceration ??,

well I certainly havnt, which leads me to believe either ,

a) they were found innocent and released, but it wanst newsworthy, or

they managed to get out of the country.....a little poorer,

You talk about a follow up six months after the original news report. Not sure what you are trying to say here. That is the accept norm in all news papers around the world. Are you sugesting Pataya is different. As for a credable non expired link what the heck is that supposed to mean. Just because it is a old link are you saying it is no longer a fact.

If you had been reading the previous posts you would know that he has been charged for this before. Are you sure you didn't just check your e mail and rush to post?

Yes some of the really high profile cases will give a follow up but we are only talking about a very small percentage of the cases.

[Comehome]

To the post who wrote "Come on boys and girls, TIT!" earlier:

Just because this is Thailand, it doesn't mean it is ok.

The "TIT"attitude is EXACTLY the reason why fundamental things (like following the rules) is not working in this country AT ALL!

It has nothing to do with how much experience and knowledge you have about Thailand.

The "TIT"-expression only shows that you are willing to accept almost everything until it personally hits you. Then reality suddenly bites.

[jayjay0]

Sorry, I'm reading this development a different way...

If he's blacklisted and has his visa canceled, he'd either have to leave the country, or be actively deported by the Thai authorities, and be unable legally to return.

In that case, he'd never be present for the completion of the pending legal proceedings. So I'm not sure how the case could proceed to a verdict in those circumstances.

It seems rather a way of Thailand getting rid of the guy without having to put a prominent Russian artist on trial.... If true, that would seem to benefit a fair number of different interests in this mess.

...leaving aside the question of whether the guy is guilty or innocent. He's been accused before, so this episode would just be another one added to the list.

thanks for your opinion. I am pretty fed up with the Thai haters. Its nice to get one not based on Bias

Not being the lawyer most of these posters are I really can't say that he has to be deported because they canceled his visa. I am sure that the Thai legal system is the same as the one's I am familiar with in the US and Canada. You will notice I said legal system not Justice system. They are two separate animals. It is not uncommon in both countries to have a law that will nullify another one. In point perhaps they can hold him under another law.

Yes every one is rite he has not been convicted. However this is not his first charge would all these high moral minded people let him baby sit there kids.

Yes the Russian embassy might come in with there guns a blazing. But why, are they afraid he might return to Russia remember he has a reputation there for this kind of thing.

Oh, this is too much even from you man. This time you surpassed yourself, even.

Where you get that that any one here said he is innocent?

Again, as million times before yo did it here, you misunderstood whole point.

The point here is about juidicial system allowed him to go free without any chance we see he is guilty or not. That was the point here and read all posts carefully. This way it looks like you just want to opone again.

BTW don't be sarcastic to all of us here so to say we are high moral minded people because yes we ARE high moral minded people in this discussion.

Charged or not in some other country, it's irrelevant here and in this case and we are commenting about Thai way to accuse the man and after that to let him go. We are wondering how come. That's all.

What are you on about now. I never said he was innocent or guilty or any one else has. As for the judicial system I pointed out that I don't know. That is more than most of you high moral minded Thai hating expats have done you just attack it saying it is wrong.

[Deeral]

"How do I know? - experience"

THat just about the most ridiculous comment on the whole thread - someone who can't recognise his own prejudice when it smacks him in the face!

[moetownblues]

If they follow this to the letter of the law then it will make a huge dent in tourism. Why not situate the new Transnational Crime Data Center at one end of Walking Street in Pattaya then every single male who is not in the company of a spouse could easily be rounded up and processed. After all it would fit the criteria of "Reasonable belief that he is there to procure a woman / ladyboy for the purpose of prostitution."

Blacklisted under Section 12 of the Immigration Act

8. Reason to believe that entrance into the Kingdom was for the purpose of being involved in prostitution, the trading of woman of children, drug smuggling, or other types of smuggling which are contrary to the public morality.

Section 9 of the 'Prostitution Prevention and Suppression Act' states

'Whoever

procures

, seduces, or traffics the

other person to commit the act of prostitution

, even with consent of the other person, no matter whether the commission of various acts which constitute the offence are committed inside or outside the territory of the Kingdom, shall be punished with imprisonment of one to ten years and an fine of twenty thousand to two hundred thousand baht.

Well, also those in company of a spouse....What reasons do you have to go to pattaya, prostitution aside? The guy received an excellent tratment to me and was very lucky not to be behind bars right now. He's also most likely guilty (how do I know? Experience). Maybe the only mistake thais are committing is leaving this guy at large (him and his "instument").

I don't think those who go with a spouse are out to procure the services of a working girl unless they swing. Maybe if they were caught kissing in public then they could offend public morality but it would be harsh to get blacklisted for that.

[jayjay0]

Just a few thoughts:I suppose the authorities have the power whether or not someone is convicted of a crime here in Thailand or not, to cancel that person's visa and a similar power if it suits the authorities to blacklist him. Across the world immigration authorities or equivalent have the powers for example to refuse visa's etc to anyone without giving reasons.

Correct?

This is correct. It is not a right to enter any country. You can be denied entry for any reason that any country wants to, There is no burden of proof needed to be declared undesirable to enter.

People in general have no idea how lucky they are here in Thailand. I tried to take my Thai wife to visit in the States and Canada. Yes I can do it but the hoops you have to go through make it difficult. For instance you have to go to the Canadian Embassy for a interview the local consulate is not good enough. And that is just one of the requirments.

In this case based on previous charges and his preference to live in a enviroment that is famous for that kind of activity I would think they have made a reasonable decision. As has been pointed out here he is still allowed to leave the country and return. There is apparently other points in the law that are in play here. If it worries some one let them do some investigation and come back here with the results.

[ableguy]

If this story is in fact true, it makes a total mockery of justice in Thailand. Might this be because Pletnev has shown he will fight the case in Court and the authorities are so incensed by the international media response (which has highlighted the fact that Thailand is a haven for pedophiles rather than the efforts of the country to clean up its act) that they literally want the case and Pletnev to disappear? Wherever he is now, he cannot get back to Thailand and report back to the Court as ordered. So he is doubly damned. Accused of being a pedophile and treated as one without any shred of evidence being brought out in Court! Yet not even allowed to prove his innocence (if that is the case). What makes this even more disgraceful is that the Immigration Chief has acted before getting a reply from the "Child and Women Unit". I am shocked and appalled.

MAYBE WE SHOULD WAIT UNTIL HE IS CONVICTED ? JUST A THOUGHT LA !.....

Perfectly fair point. But it seems the Thai Justice System will not even give him that opportunity! I hope there is an international outcry over this.

I think you may be looking at it the wrong way.

They've stopped his visa so he can't come back and face charges.

What if influential people from whichever country have found a way to let him go free without Thailand losing face.

The Thais can't prosecute him because they've put him on a blacklist and won't let him back into the country.

I wonder who gets to keep all the guy's assets in Thailand. Hasn't he got houses and businesses all over the place?

Makes you think.

Read the papers, he is back in Thailand, and reported to police in Pattaya on time, he said he was prepared to fight the case and added the police found nothing on his computers or in his home.

[spectrumisgreen]

I do think that it's no more fair to say that Thailand is a haven for pedophiles than it is to prejudge the accused, nor an intelligent way of responding to the media, which everyone knows can't be taken seriously. The United States is crawling with them, they're loudmouthed and arrogant even where employed in school systems. Thankfully, I've not found myself required to share space with people like that or with heavy substance abusers, in fact, of the many people I know in Thailand, none of them are like that, so I'm proud and happy to be here. In the states, I couldn't get away from them. I hope and pray for a fair resolution of this tragic event, and encourage Thailand (and everyone) to be fair, reasonable and forgiving.

Good point well made, I'd say!!! Who knows who's guilty or innocent til they've been through the 'justice' system, but we do know there's a lot of em out there... everywhere!!! :jap:

[Wozzit]

If you had been reading the previous posts you would know that he has been charged for this before. Are you sure you didn't just check your e mail and rush to post?

I ask you the same question. Have you checked the sources of the information about previous charges? If not, I suggest you spend some time searching the internet. One of the Pattaya papers picked up something from a Russian newspaper Moskovsky Komsomolets. This appears to be a scandal rag like the National Enquirer in the US. The reporting in that newspaper is, shall we say, not always accurate. Why are those charges not found in any other Russian newspaper - especially now when the Russian media is crucifying Pletnev more than almost anywhere else? The worlds media has been all over the Pletnev Pattaya case. If the previous charges were anything other than a figment of someone's imagination, why have we not heard more detail about them? Why is no other newspaper in the world talking about them?

The PDN quotes, "Mr. Pletnev was acquitted in a high profile "child sex" case at the Hamovnicheskogo district court in Moscow". Try searching "Pletnev Hamovnicheskogo child sex" on google and see what you get. Nothing, except for the PDN and a couple of commercial sites promoting children's and insurance products! And you call this proof???? I'll happily look at proof, but not unfounded rumour.

And to repeat a point made before, do you seriously think a Russian President would permit someone with any "alleged pedophile" label to serve on an official government advisory council chaired by the President himself? It makes no sense.

Read the papers, he is back in Thailand, and reported to police in Pattaya on time, he said he was prepared to fight the case and added the police found nothing on his computers or in his home.

Sorry, but you haven't read the latest. On Tuesday the Pattaya Court again gave him permission to depart, and it is reported he is already on his way to Moscow for his mother's birthday. If Thailand does not permit him to return to fight the case, I can see international musicians starting a major world campaign to boycott Thailand. It's so interesting that the latest twist by the Immigration Chief seems to have turned world opinion on its head.

Edited July 22, 2010 by Wozzit

[Asianrider]

this case has certainly taken an interesting twist. What amazed me was not he came back, but permission to leave in the first place !

[LuckyLew]

it's interesting how thailand can set the rules on who it lets come here / stay here .

i was flabbergasted when the conductor returned here .

What is so interesting about it

Thailand can decide who it lets in and who it doesn't

Who should be allowed who gets to enter? The British?

Regarding the composer ....

If it looks like a duck ... walk like a duck ... quacks like a duck ...

Not the first time this person has had this type of issue

Well aren't you the lucky one that no one has ever pointed a finger at you.

Wold not call it lucky, would call it smart

I do not put myself in any situations that

could lead to such issues

[Alwaysright]

it's interesting how thailand can set the rules on who it lets come here / stay here .

i was flabbergasted when the conductor returned here .

What is so interesting about it

Thailand can decide who it lets in and who it doesn't

Who should be allowed who gets to enter? The British?

Regarding the composer ....

If it looks like a duck ... walk like a duck ... quacks like a duck ...

Not the first time this person has had this type of issue

Well aren't you the lucky one that no one has ever pointed a finger at you.

Wold not call it lucky, would call it smart

I do not put myself in any situations that

could lead to such issues

Since they deleted my prior post I have to agree with you.He put himself in the position to be charged.He fits the profile,where there is smoke there is fire.Pay the kid enough ,he will change his story,how about the others?Look at his picture. B) B) B)

[LomSak27]

Good PR to - we need some heading into a holiday weekend.

[jomtienbob]

By now everybody knows who is behind the setup of this man. Maybe someone can check the bank transfers into the account of the immigration chief. First there were pictures than there were not, than there were movies and x rated images on a computer than they were suddenly not. What stayed was the big company that had to settle a score. the lesson: Do not do business in Thailand. When the influential see that you are doing too good, they will use any trick in the book to get you out and their hands on your assets.

As a rule however, messing with influential Russians isn't usually good for one's longevity even if you are a policeman in a foreign country.

This story will run well beyond him being blacklisted (although he is apparently in the country under the terms of his bail), and I think we may find that this blacklisting may well be just a terrible slip of the tongue. How are they going to effect the visa cancellation? Arrest him and deport him. Now that is going to look very nice on world news.

Russian deported because policeman decided he was guilty. It is almost as though the immigration department forgot to notice that courts even exist in Thailand. The press will have a field day with it.

This is so obviously a travesty of justice that not even the government can ignore it.

The Russian embassy will be all over this story like a rash, hopefully Thailand's esteemed Foreign Minister has received a call already. What is Abhisit's contact number again to get in touch?

The even sadder case is in fact the lack of any journalistic scruples let alone real investigative journalism here or even in the west. Yes of course the obvious travesties of justice should be complained, but the media do nothing. Not here not in the west either. what have we come to?

[Piengrudee]

Judging from all the information I receive, I think this man is innocent. Perhaps a scam that when wrong, and someone is trying to cover it up.