Thai Immigration Cancells Visa And Blacklists Composer Mickhail Pletnev

[elkangorito]

Surfrider, your post is totally unintelligible.

[SurfRider]

<br />Surfrider, your post is totally unintelligible.<br />

<br /><br /><br />

elkangorito,

That was due to ThaiVisa's spiffy new editor and an attempt to do an edit -- check now, I think it's been fixed

[krading]

Listening to the 'interview' this alledged rape happened "5 five or six year ago"

Why is it just coming out now?

[Wozzit]

Listening to the 'interview' this alledged rape happened "5 five or six year ago"

Why is it just coming out now?

It seems clear to me (and to the PDN reporter) that this is another set-up! The interview was staged by a Russian TV station. It does not say this is the boy who has made the allegations against Pletnev. It merely says he is a "14-year old boy" (despite the fact that he looks at least 20) who says he had sexual relations with Pletnev. But listen carefully to the audio and switch the sound up. You can clearly hear the boy being coached.

However the 'boy' only says he met Pletnev 5 or 6 years ago - meaning when he was 8 or 9 (if his 'claimed' age of 14 is correct)! He is then asked if he ever had sex with the accused. Yes, says the boy - and then, crucially, "about one month or two months ago". That is important because the police have charged Pletnev with offences in December and February. It would be impossible for anyone to have had any involvement with Pletnev "one month or two months ago" for the very simple reason he was not in the country between February and late June! The interview apparently took place about 3 or 4 days ago. Had the boy said "two or three weeks ago", it might just have been plausible. But it is all just a nasty set-up - for reasons we can only speculate.

[Jingthing]

Bingo. We can only speculate. The sources on this story from all sides lack credibility.

[Wozzit]

Listening to the 'interview' this alledged rape happened "5 five or six year ago"

Why is it just coming out now?

It seems clear to me (and to the PDN reporter) that this is another set-up! The interview was staged by a Russian TV station. It does not say this is the boy who has made the allegations against Pletnev. It merely says he is a "14-year old boy" (despite the fact that he looks at least 20) who says he had sexual relations with Pletnev. But listen carefully to the audio and switch the sound up. You can clearly hear the boy being coached.

However the 'boy' only says he met Pletnev 5 or 6 years ago - meaning when he was 8 or 9 (if his 'claimed' age of 14 is correct)! He is then asked if he ever had sex with the accused. Yes, says the boy - and then, crucially, "about one month or two months ago". That is important because the police have charged Pletnev with offences in December and February. It would be impossible for anyone to have had any involvement with Pletnev "one month or two months ago" for the very simple reason he was not in the country between February and late June! The interview apparently took place about 3 or 4 days ago. Had the boy said "two or three weeks ago", it might just have been plausible. But it is all just a nasty set-up - for reasons we can only speculate.

I forgot to add one other interesting issue to come out of that interview. The boy is asked if he has ever seen other boys with Pletnev. He says yes - indeed, he has a habit of saying "yes" to everything! He tells us he has seen 5 or 6 young boys. I then can not make out what he says they were doing but it sounds something like helping him with some "home business and learn piano". The very idea of one of the world's finest pianists, used perhaps sometimes to teaching some of the world's finest piano students, giving lessons to a bunch of Pattaya kids who had probably never been near a piano in their lives, is just mind-bogglingly ridiculous!

[jayjay0]

Wasn't there a report that he would be admitted back in to deal with court business?

more than likely. As I said earlier logical he would want a court case to clear him of the charges. A not guilty verdict would help restore his reputation what ever it is. If he is innocent it would make absulutly no sense for him to leave the country knowing he could not get back in. On the other hand it would make a lot of sense to leave never to return if he is guilty.

If you want to believe a lot of posters on TV it dosen't matter if he is innocent or guilty the courts are corrupt and he can just pay his way out of it.

I for one do not agree with that opinion.

[Wozzit]

Wasn't there a report that he would be admitted back in to deal with court business?

more than likely. As I said earlier logical he would want a court case to clear him of the charges. A not guilty verdict would help restore his reputation what ever it is. If he is innocent it would make absulutly no sense for him to leave the country knowing he could not get back in. On the other hand it would make a lot of sense to leave never to return if he is guilty.

If you want to believe a lot of posters on TV it dosen't matter if he is innocent or guilty the courts are corrupt and he can just pay his way out of it.

I for one do not agree with that opinion.

I note jayjay0 you have not responded to my post #231

Edited July 23, 2010 by Wozzit

[jayjay0]

wozzit

The link is on post number 98 by jfchandler. I hope you put more effort into your other investigations.

Stepenwolf1958

Thank you for your post. you at least read my posts and yes I am rude. That being said is not accusing 66,000,000 Thai's of being the same a spineless ignorant way of being rude. I simply and as you say rudely try to point out that that is not the case. It is fact a insult to my intelligence and it should be to yours.

I make no claim to denying there is corruption or there is greed but I do violently rudely deny that all Thai's are that way. Did you read the posts I made about sympathizing with the red shirts they would be vital to your understanding of my mind.LOL:lol:

Before I apologise for anything, I did in fact read that link. Perhaps you can kindly tell me exactly where it says anything about charges in Switzerland? I have read it several times and see nothing. Maybe your eyes are better than mine and you will enlighten me? But if you are referring to this paragraph -

To date, the ongoing case against Mr. Pletnev has caused the Orchestra of Italian Switzerland (OSI) to suspend their connections with the under fire conductor until the completion of legal proceedings, while his duties as artistic director of the Russian National Orchestra continue.

- you will note that it has nothing to do with any case inSwitzerland. It refers to the case in Thailand. As a result, the orchestra has suspended him pending the outcome of the Thai case. Did you say something about putting effort into investigations? Reading every single post on this thread takes some effort!

No I will not do any more research for you. following is a paragraph from that article

"As seems to be the case in any high profile scandal, various media outlets, largely Russian, have found information linking Mr. Pletnev to several other cases of paedophilia and child abuse dating back as far as the 1980’s. In total three further cases have been linked to Mr. Pletnev two of which he was acquitted any involvement and a third, which he states is a fabrication and has since been retracted by the media source/s involved.

I would imagine it was the third case that was in Switzerland. I don't know where it was but I read it on this thread. I have read all the the posts on this thread and you have not notice I had to ell you about this one. Now do your own work I am not going to help you. Sorry I can't remember where it was if I could I would be happy to post it. But when you read all the posts starting with number one you will understand why it is hard to remember where every thing is.

[Wozzit]

wozzit

The link is on post number 98 by jfchandler. I hope you put more effort into your other investigations.

Stepenwolf1958

Thank you for your post. you at least read my posts and yes I am rude. That being said is not accusing 66,000,000 Thai's of being the same a spineless ignorant way of being rude. I simply and as you say rudely try to point out that that is not the case. It is fact a insult to my intelligence and it should be to yours.

I make no claim to denying there is corruption or there is greed but I do violently rudely deny that all Thai's are that way. Did you read the posts I made about sympathizing with the red shirts they would be vital to your understanding of my mind.LOL:lol:

Before I apologise for anything, I did in fact read that link. Perhaps you can kindly tell me exactly where it says anything about charges in Switzerland? I have read it several times and see nothing. Maybe your eyes are better than mine and you will enlighten me? But if you are referring to this paragraph -

To date, the ongoing case against Mr. Pletnev has caused the Orchestra of Italian Switzerland (OSI) to suspend their connections with the under fire conductor until the completion of legal proceedings, while his duties as artistic director of the Russian National Orchestra continue.

- you will note that it has nothing to do with any case inSwitzerland. It refers to the case in Thailand. As a result, the orchestra has suspended him pending the outcome of the Thai case. Did you say something about putting effort into investigations? Reading every single post on this thread takes some effort!

No I will not do any more research for you. following is a paragraph from that article

"As seems to be the case in any high profile scandal, various media outlets, largely Russian, have found information linking Mr. Pletnev to several other cases of paedophilia and child abuse dating back as far as the 1980's. In total three further cases have been linked to Mr. Pletnev two of which he was acquitted any involvement and a third, which he states is a fabrication and has since been retracted by the media source/s involved.

I would imagine it was the third case that was in Switzerland. I don't know where it was but I read it on this thread. I have read all the the posts on this thread and you have not notice I had to ell you about this one. Now do your own work I am not going to help you. Sorry I can't remember where it was if I could I would be happy to post it. But when you read all the posts starting with number one you will understand why it is hard to remember where every thing is.

Well, I'll help you out. I have done the research - at your request. I don't need any help, thank you. You stated very clearly there was a case in Switzerland. There is and never has been any charge/case in Switzerland. Period!

As for the Russian 'charges', I have replied in several posts on this and other related threads that these allegations were made in one Moscow scandal magazine - I repeat, one. They were never printed in any other Russian media that I can find (using two major search engines, and having talked to a friend in Moscow who has also been searching for information), and have never, ever been printed in any of the western media. If there was any foundation to these 'stories', with the massive worldwide interest in the Pattaya case - and lets remember it is in virtually every newspaper around the globe - don't you think that one investigative reporter somewhere would have dug up something more than what has been reported in one Russian scandal magazine? The few references that have appeared recently are all traced back to that scandal magazine.

[honestly]

AS the Thais say "if you never came to Thailand there wouldn't be a problem!!!!!!!"

[Wozzit]

Before I apologise for anything, I did in fact read that link. Perhaps you can kindly tell me exactly where it says anything about charges in Switzerland? I have read it several times and see nothing. Maybe your eyes are better than mine and you will enlighten me? But if you are referring to this paragraph -

To date, the ongoing case against Mr. Pletnev has caused the Orchestra of Italian Switzerland (OSI) to suspend their connections with the under fire conductor until the completion of legal proceedings, while his duties as artistic director of the Russian National Orchestra continue.

- you will note that it has nothing to do with any case inSwitzerland. It refers to the case in Thailand. As a result, the orchestra has suspended him pending the outcome of the Thai case. Did you say something about putting effort into investigations? Reading every single post on this thread takes some effort!

No I will not do any more research for you. following is a paragraph from that article

"As seems to be the case in any high profile scandal, various media outlets, largely Russian, have found information linking Mr. Pletnev to several other cases of paedophilia and child abuse dating back as far as the 1980's. In total three further cases have been linked to Mr. Pletnev two of which he was acquitted any involvement and a third, which he states is a fabrication and has since been retracted by the media source/s involved.

I would imagine it was the third case that was in Switzerland. I don't know where it was but I read it on this thread. I have read all the the posts on this thread and you have not notice I had to ell you about this one. Now do your own work I am not going to help you. Sorry I can't remember where it was if I could I would be happy to post it. But when you read all the posts starting with number one you will understand why it is hard to remember where every thing is.

Well, I'll help you out. I have done the research - at your request. I don't need any help, thank you. You stated very clearly there was a case in Switzerland. There is and never has been any charge/case in Switzerland. Period!

As for the Russian 'charges', I have replied in several posts on this and other related threads that these allegations were made in one Moscow scandal magazine - I repeat, one. They were never printed in any other Russian media that I can find (using two major search engines, and having talked to a friend in Moscow who has also been searching for information), and have never, ever been printed in any of the western media. If there was any foundation to these 'stories', with the massive worldwide interest in the Pattaya case - and lets remember it is in virtually every newspaper around the globe - don't you think that one investigative reporter somewhere would have dug up something more than what has been reported in one Russian scandal magazine? The few references that have appeared recently are all traced back to that scandal magazine.

SInce jayjay0 has not responded to my post #250, I thought maybe it is because it's a long week-end. But he has posted on other threads, so I assume he has failed to respond to my post because he finally realises he is wrong. Let me add some further 'research'. That third allegation, which seems so important to jayjay0 was made in that same Russian scandal mag, Moskovsky Komsomolets – and only there, please note. It claimed it had taken place in Japan – not Switzerland. Let me quote from the Moscow Times of 8 July."Several years ago, when Pletnev was touring in Japan, the parents of a Japanese boy accused him of sexually molesting their son, Moskovsky Komsomolets reported Tuesday, without citing any sources." So the only source is Moskovsky Komsomolets. This, as I have explained before, is a well-known scandal magazine on the lines of The National Enquirer in the USA, far more used to printing rumour and innuendo than accurate news. This is how it isdescribed by wikipedia: "it is now regarded as publishing sensational orprovocative items on Russian politics and society."And this is your source?

So, yet again, you repeat gossip and rumour. What other sources do you have? Since you feel this rumoured third case (in Japan, remember - not Switzerland) is so material to your point, try looking up some of the Japanese media websites. I'll even give you a start – The Japan Times, Mainichi Daily News, Asahi Shimbun, Fuji News Network and Kyodo News Service. Check outtheir archives. Then, please let posters know how much you can find about Pletnev and this rumoured huhsed-up scandal.

Oh I forgot! Of course, it is only rumour and was hushed up! Give me a break! So this is the 'evidence' on which you base your assumptions? I'll let other posters make their minds up on this one. But then I forgot something. You find it "hard to remember where everything is." Until your memory gets better, I suggest it might be more appropriate to commence your statements with "I seem to remember . . ." andthen end them with " . . . but I may be wrong."

Edited July 25, 2010 by Wozzit

[jayjay0]

Wozzit

Still here.

But this is it no sense talking to a closed mind.

I was well aware of the Japanese case. I was referring to the one in Switzerland and not the cancellation of his job there. I read it on one of the earlier posts of witch I have read them all and you have not notice I had to find the one for you. That alone tells us two things 1 you can not research the simplest of things and two my memory is not that good it was not in the first three pages as I had said my mistake sorry. Now if I can not remember something like that how in the he--l do you expect me to remember where one single post is that I gave no real notice of if I had realized you were that interested I would have wrote it down..

As for Moskovsky Komsomoletsr They may or may not be a scandal magazine makes no difference if you will reread wikipedia you will notice it says nothing about being based on lies. That being said I doubt your ability to research News papers from pre internet and communist controlled media. Not surprising it was not in the communist approved News Paper. And if it is so iffy why did a modern day respectable paper print it.

GOODBY

[Wozzit]

Wozzit

Still here.

But this is it no sense talking to a closed mind.

I was well aware of the Japanese case. I was referring to the one in Switzerland and not the cancellation of his job there. I read it on one of the earlier posts of witch I have read them all and you have not notice I had to find the one for you. That alone tells us two things 1 you can not research the simplest of things and two my memory is not that good it was not in the first three pages as I had said my mistake sorry. Now if I can not remember something like that how in the he--l do you expect me to remember where one single post is that I gave no real notice of if I had realized you were that interested I would have wrote it down..

As for Moskovsky Komsomoletsr They may or may not be a scandal magazine makes no difference if you will reread wikipedia you will notice it says nothing about being based on lies. That being said I doubt your ability to research News papers from pre internet and communist controlled media. Not surprising it was not in the communist approved News Paper. And if it is so iffy why did a modern day respectable paper print it.

GOODBY

Hello! I don''t know how often I have to say it. There is absolutely NO case/charge/call-it-what-you-like in Switzerland. Period! It is not on any earlier post - and I have read them all not just on this thread but on all threads related to this case. And I re-read them all again when you were so certain I was wrong. So, you directed me to nothing. You ought not to be able to make false statements without someone bringing it to other posters attention If you or any other poster can provide any evidence that proves me wrong, I will apologise and make a contribution to a child welfare charity! I suggest again you don't make assertions you cannot follow up.

As to the Moscow scandal newspaper, I take it your view is therefore that anything published in a scandal magazine must necessarily be based on truth. That's a new one on me - and I am sure most other posters!

Edited July 25, 2010 by Wozzit

[JohnLeech]

From what I understand, he owns a house and an apartment. Plus he built with his own money a major sports complex for the people living in the area. This has several badminton courts with air conditioning (seems he is a keen badminton player), an Olympic size-pool, coffee shop etc.

I hope your other information is rather better sourced. The "major sports complex" is the Euro Badminton Club on Soi Chaiyapreuk 2,....(edited)

I am sorry if my use of the term sports complex was wrong or misunderstood.........But it is certainly far larger than the picture you portray of it. A "back garden" sized pool? Absolutely incorrect. Go and look at it. In fact,I defy anyone to look at the photo in the PDN and then say that is anywhere near a description of a "back garden" pool. It looks to be around Olympic length, but not as wide. One badminton court? I have not seen inside but you can see from the road that the area under that roof is very considerable. There is certainly a lot more than one badminton court there. You mention the bar, but you do not mention the coffee shop upstairs? I'm told the entrance is about Bt. 60 for farang. I do not know how that compares to other centres in Pattaya. (edited)

I have been to look at it, when I was looking for a table tennis room some time ago (I can recommend the Ambassador's).

I have seen the pool for myself, rather than just a photo, and it is anything but Olympic size (50m x 25m). It is similar to one I had in my first house here.

I have seen inside the badminton area, rather than taken a guess from the road, where it is not possible for more than one game to be played at a time without one game interfering with another.

I have seen the "bar", which is no more than a usually unmanned booth.

I have seen the "coffee shop", which is smaller than my Thai kitchen.

I have compared the charges with other facilities in and around Pattaya.

You have evidently taken all your information either from the local press, what you have "been told" and what you imagine to be correct without actually seeing or checking anything for yourself.

"So, yet again, you repeat gossip and rumour. ........... You ought not to be able to make false statements without someone bringing it to other posters attention. If you or any other poster can provide any evidence that proves me wrong, I will apologise and make a contribution to a child welfare charity!"

In this case, at least, you are demonstrably and evidently wrong yet you still insist on defending your position rather than just admitting a minor and unimportant mistake - that, at least to me, has to cast some doubt over everything you post .

How much was that "contribution"?

[Wozzit]

From what I understand, he owns a house and an apartment. Plus he built with his own money a major sports complex for the people living in the area. This has several badminton courts with air conditioning (seems he is a keen badminton player), an Olympic size-pool, coffee shop etc.

I hope your other information is rather better sourced. The "major sports complex" is the Euro Badminton Club on Soi Chaiyapreuk 2,....(edited)

I am sorry if my use of the term sports complex was wrong or misunderstood.........But it is certainly far larger than the picture you portray of it. A "back garden" sized pool? Absolutely incorrect. Go and look at it. In fact,I defy anyone to look at the photo in the PDN and then say that is anywhere near a description of a "back garden" pool. It looks to be around Olympic length, but not as wide. One badminton court? I have not seen inside but you can see from the road that the area under that roof is very considerable. There is certainly a lot more than one badminton court there. You mention the bar, but you do not mention the coffee shop upstairs? I'm told the entrance is about Bt. 60 for farang. I do not know how that compares to other centres in Pattaya. (edited)

I have been to look at it, when I was looking for a table tennis room some time ago (I can recommend the Ambassador's).

I have seen the pool for myself, rather than just a photo, and it is anything but Olympic size (50m x 25m). It is similar to one I had in my first house here.

I have seen inside the badminton area, rather than taken a guess from the road, where it is not possible for more than one game to be played at a time without one game interfering with another.

I have seen the "bar", which is no more than a usually unmanned booth.

I have seen the "coffee shop", which is smaller than my Thai kitchen.

I have compared the charges with other facilities in and around Pattaya.

You have evidently taken all your information either from the local press, what you have "been told" and what you imagine to be correct without actually seeing or checking anything for yourself.

"So, yet again, you repeat gossip and rumour. ........... You ought not to be able to make false statements without someone bringing it to other posters attention. If you or any other poster can provide any evidence that proves me wrong, I will apologise and make a contribution to a child welfare charity!"

In this case, at least, you are demonstrably and evidently wrong yet you still insist on defending your position rather than just admitting a minor and unimportant mistake - that, at least to me, has to cast some doubt over everything you post .

How much was that "contribution"?

Well, you sound suspiciously like jayjay0! But I'll let that pass.

All I can say is the gardens in your first house and your present house must be palatial. Obviously I can not comment on the size of pools in your gardens because I never saw either of them. You are also correct - I have not measured the one in the Euro Club. At my request, a friend and his wife who have lived close to Pattaya for many years drove to the club yesterday. Although their observations were restricted to the outside and the coffee shop area, in his words, "it really is a big pool – far bigger than I have seen in virtually any hotels in Thailand." He walked along its length and reckons it is probably about 30 metres. Is that about the length of your pools?Still, I am happy to apologise for basing a comment on a photo and using a "looks like" description which was not accurate. Now perhaps you will tell us how long your pools were/are.

As to the coffee shop, the comment is "it's a large space with about six tables and seating for probably 20 – 24 people, but you could easily add in another 2 or 3 tables into the space." I never made any claim about its size, since I was merely pointing out the fact that you omitted mention of any coffee shop in your original post. You will agree that any space seating 20 – 24 people with room for another 8 – 12 more is far from small. So you obviously have an extremely large kitchen. I wonder how many it can seat comfortably?

No, you are incorrect. I made absolutely no comments on the bar. I didn't know there was one till you mentioned it in your earlier post. Further, regarding cost of admission, I clearly stated that I did "not know how that compares with other centres inPattaya." So your comment is inappropriate. But again I shall be interested to learn from you about the entrance charges of some other facilities in Pattaya. One day, I may wish to join one.

Edited July 26, 2010 by Wozzit

[Wozzit]

Wozzit

Still here.

But this is it no sense talking to a closed mind.

I was well aware of the Japanese case. I was referring to the one in Switzerland and not the cancellation of his job there. I read it on one of the earlier posts of witch I have read them all and you have not notice I had to find the one for you. That alone tells us two things 1 you can not research the simplest of things and two my memory is not that good it was not in the first three pages as I had said my mistake sorry. Now if I can not remember something like that how in the he--l do you expect me to remember where one single post is that I gave no real notice of if I had realized you were that interested I would have wrote it down..

As for Moskovsky Komsomoletsr They may or may not be a scandal magazine makes no difference if you will reread wikipedia you will notice it says nothing about being based on lies. That being said I doubt your ability to research News papers from pre internet and communist controlled media. Not surprising it was not in the communist approved News Paper. And if it is so iffy why did a modern day respectable paper print it.

GOODBY

Hello! I don''t know how often I have to say it. There is absolutely NO case/charge/call-it-what-you-like in Switzerland. Period! It is not on any earlier post - and I have read them all not just on this thread but on all threads related to this case. And I re-read them all again when you were so certain I was wrong. So, you directed me to nothing. You ought not to be able to make false statements without someone bringing it to other posters attention If you or any other poster can provide any evidence that proves me wrong, I will apologise and make a contribution to a child welfare charity! I suggest again you don't make assertions you cannot follow up.

As to the Moscow scandal newspaper, I take it your view is therefore that anything published in a scandal magazine must necessarily be based on truth. That's a new one on me - and I am sure most other posters!

SInce this issue of a case in Switzerland is clearly bugging you - and you are unable to provide any proof whatever of its existence or even of its having been written about, I am using my media accreditation pass to seek information from the press office at the Federal Department of Foreign Affairs in Bern. I will inform you and other posters of the result.

Edited July 26, 2010 by Wozzit

[JohnLeech]

I am happy to apologise for basing a comment on a photo and using a "looks like" description which was not accurate.

Apology accepted - and that "contribution" you promised?

To answer your questions, although they have little to do with Pletnev:

Present garden about 3 rai (some 5,000 m²); I live outside Pattaya and paid less than 5% of what I would have paid in Pattaya, so that does not mean that my house (or Pletnev's, despite what has been implied here) is "palatial" . First pool 25m. No pool now as I have 2 large freshwater lakes.

Sorry, but I don't agree about the size of the coffee shop per se; There's a small comfortable part and "a large space", as your friend said, with some decrepit furniture. My Thai kitchen is under my house where you could park 10 - 12 cars (I don't!), so it could seat quite a few.

I cannot be incorrect correcting you about the bar, as I didn't - I simply described it to put it the "major sports complex" into perspective.

Entrance charges vary widely as do the facilities. The Euro Club charges compare poorly as their facilities are poor - if you are interested in badminton try the Pattaya badminton club on 3rd road, near Tony's, or the Ambassador.

These points are all minor and unimportant and I could honestly not care less how accurate they (or you) are. It was no more than a demonstration of just how wide of the mark some of the reports on Pletnev were which were being taken at face value and how unwise it was to say that "You ought not to be able to make false statements without someone bringing it to other posters attention" unless you are sure of everything you post on that topic, as "someone" may have nothing better to do than point out some "false statements" you have made yourself.

Bye.

[Wozzit]

I am happy to apologise for basing a comment on a photo and using a "looks like" description which was not accurate.

Apology accepted - and that "contribution" you promised?

To answer your questions, although they have little to do with Pletnev:

Present garden about 3 rai (some 5,000 m²); I live outside Pattaya and paid less than 5% of what I would have paid in Pattaya, so that does not mean that my house (or Pletnev's, despite what has been implied here) is "palatial" . First pool 25m. No pool now as I have 2 large freshwater lakes.

Sorry, but I don't agree about the size of the coffee shop per se; There's a small comfortable part and "a large space", as your friend said, with some decrepit furniture. My Thai kitchen is under my house where you could park 10 - 12 cars (I don't!), so it could seat quite a few.

I cannot be incorrect correcting you about the bar, as I didn't - I simply described it to put it the "major sports complex" into perspective.

Entrance charges vary widely as do the facilities. The Euro Club charges compare poorly as their facilities are poor - if you are interested in badminton try the Pattaya badminton club on 3rd road, near Tony's, or the Ambassador.

These points are all minor and unimportant and I could honestly not care less how accurate they (or you) are. It was no more than a demonstration of just how wide of the mark some of the reports on Pletnev were which were being taken at face value and how unwise it was to say that "You ought not to be able to make false statements without someone bringing it to other posters attention" unless you are sure of everything you post on that topic, as "someone" may have nothing better to do than point out some "false statements" you have made yourself.

Bye.

Let's agree on one thing. Yes, the points are minor. I erred re the pool size, accepted - although when I am not certain of something I add , as I did in this case, "it looks like" or sometimes "seems to me", which is how any normal person will make a comment of which he is not 100% certain. On the other hand, in making specific underlined statements but then failing to provide any detail, you definitely give the impression that things are not quite what they are.

You state your pool is 25 metres in length. I am sure very few people reading this will accept that this is the average size of a garden pool for a house in Pattaya. It is far larger.

Equally, from what you say, my friend's comment re the coffee shop is perfectly pertinent. I defy anyone to agree that a space that can accommodate "10 - 12 cars" is a normal-sized, or even a large, kitchen. It is certainly big enough for a coffee shop and could certainly, in that case, accommodate 30 or more people. My statement was therefore correct, but in saying it is "smaller than my Thai kitchen" and then not pointing out the relative size of your kitchen, you leave posters with the mistaken impression that the coffee shop is a great deal smaller than it is. I have no idea about the furniture, and I have never raised it other than discussing the number of people that my friend felt could be accommodated. Further, you continue to comment that the entrance charges "compare poorly", yet you give no comparison. But now you are concentrating your argument on the quality of the facilities relative to price rather than price itself. So you twist again!

As for making a contribution, I did not make any false statement. My "looks like" estimate of the pool size was incorrect. That is completely different from my suggesting that those betting Pletnev would definitely not return to Pattaya 8 days ago were wrong, and that if they were indeed wrong I would take them up on their bet - on the understanding that the loser would make a contribution to charity. Again, you twist the argument. But for your information, the two who made such bets and lost have both informed me that they will fulfill their agreement. One has even asked for my advice on the charity. In my reply, I thanked him for his honesty, pointing out that the intention was never for one person to win and another to lose - merely for a charity to gain. I have therefore matched the amount he is donating for the same children's welfare charity. I trust that answers your question. If you wish to see a payment slip, I will gladly send a copy to you.

Edited July 27, 2010 by Wozzit

[Wozzit]

Wozzit

Still here.

But this is it no sense talking to a closed mind.

I was well aware of the Japanese case. I was referring to the one in Switzerland and not the cancellation of his job there. I read it on one of the earlier posts of witch I have read them all and you have not notice I had to find the one for you. That alone tells us two things 1 you can not research the simplest of things and two my memory is not that good it was not in the first three pages as I had said my mistake sorry. Now if I can not remember something like that how in the he--l do you expect me to remember where one single post is that I gave no real notice of if I had realized you were that interested I would have wrote it down..

As for Moskovsky Komsomoletsr They may or may not be a scandal magazine makes no difference if you will reread wikipedia you will notice it says nothing about being based on lies. That being said I doubt your ability to research News papers from pre internet and communist controlled media. Not surprising it was not in the communist approved News Paper. And if it is so iffy why did a modern day respectable paper print it.

GOODBY

Hello! I don''t know how often I have to say it. There is absolutely NO case/charge/call-it-what-you-like in Switzerland. Period! It is not on any earlier post - and I have read them all not just on this thread but on all threads related to this case. And I re-read them all again when you were so certain I was wrong. So, you directed me to nothing. You ought not to be able to make false statements without someone bringing it to other posters attention If you or any other poster can provide any evidence that proves me wrong, I will apologise and make a contribution to a child welfare charity! I suggest again you don't make assertions you cannot follow up.

As to the Moscow scandal newspaper, I take it your view is therefore that anything published in a scandal magazine must necessarily be based on truth. That's a new one on me - and I am sure most other posters!

SInce this issue of a case in Switzerland is clearly bugging you - and you are unable to provide any proof whatever of its existence or even of its having been written about, I am using my media accreditation pass to seek information from the press office at the Federal Department of Foreign Affairs in Bern. I will inform you and other posters of the result.

I have this morning received a call from the Swiss Embassy in Bangkok re my written request to the Swiss Government's Federal Department of Foreign Affairs. The Department confirms that there is no outstanding criminal charge of any nature against Mikhail Vasilievich Pletnev in Switzerland. Further, there has never been any criminal charge of any nature.

I have yet again reread every post and every attachment. In your post #120, you state “The article alsosays there was a charge against him in Switzerland but it was dropped.” There is no such article or allegation.

[Piengrudee]

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<br />Wozzit<br /><br />Still here. <br /><br />But this is it no sense talking to a closed mind. <br />I was well  aware of the Japanese case. I was referring to the one in Switzerland  and not the cancellation of his job there. I read it on one of the  earlier posts of witch I have read them all and you have not notice I  had to find the one for you. That alone tells us two things 1 you can  not research the simplest of things and two my memory is not that good  it was not in the first three pages as I had said my mistake sorry. Now  if I can not remember something like that how in the he--l do you expect  me to remember where one single post is that I gave no real notice of  if I had realized you were that interested I would have wrote it  down..  <br /><br />As for <font face="Arial"><font size="3"><font size="2">Moskovsky Komsomolets</font></font></font>r  They may or may not be a scandal magazine makes no difference if you  will reread wikipedia you will notice it says nothing about being based  on lies. That being said I doubt your ability to research News papers  from pre internet and communist controlled media. Not surprising it was  not in the communist approved News Paper. And if it is so iffy why did a  modern day respectable paper print it. <br /><br />GOODBY<br />

<br /><br />Hello! I don''t know how often I have to say it. There is absolutely NO case/charge/call-it-what-you-like in Switzerland. Period! It is not on any earlier post - and I have read them all not just on this thread but on all threads related to this case. And I re-read them all again when you were so certain I was wrong. So, you directed me to nothing. You ought not to be able to make false statements without someone bringing it to other posters attention If you or any other poster can provide any evidence that proves me wrong, I will apologise and make a contribution to a child welfare charity! I suggest again you don't make assertions you cannot follow up. <br /><br />As to the Moscow scandal newspaper, I take it your view is therefore that anything published in a scandal magazine must necessarily be based on truth. That's a new one on me - and I am sure most other posters!<br />

<br /><br /></font></font><br />SInce this issue of a case in Switzerland is clearly bugging you - and you are unable to provide any proof whatever of its existence or even of its having been written about, I am using my media accreditation pass to seek information from the press office at the Federal Department of Foreign Affairs in Bern.  I will inform you and other posters of the result.<br /><br />

<br /><br />I have this morning received a call from the Swiss Embassy in Bangkok re my written request to the Swiss Government's Federal Department of Foreign Affairs. The Department confirms that there is no outstanding criminal charge of any nature against Mikhail Vasilievich Pletnev in Switzerland. Further, there has never been any criminal charge of any nature. <br /><br />I have yet again reread every post and every attachment. In your post #120, you state<font size="3"> </font><font face="Times"><font size="3">"The article alsosays there was a charge against him in Switzerland but it was dropped." There is no such article or allegation.</font></font><font face="Times"><font size="4"> <br /></font></font><br />

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"I have this morning received a call from the Swiss Embassy in Bangkok" You think we all believe you?

[Wozzit]

"I have this morning received a call from the Swiss Embassy in Bangkok" You think we all believe you?

As I said before in post #257, I am an accredited journalist. I have the right to pose any question I wish to any Embassy or government. As also mentioned earlier, mine was written directly to the Swiss government, partly because there is a Foreign Affairs media team and partly because I expected the Embassy here was closed for the long week-end. I did what I said I would do - and no-one queried it then! The answer came via the Swiss Embassy - which is quite natural in such situations. You have as much right to believe or not believe me as you do any other poster. Should you not believe me, fine. It's not that important. What is, I suggest, more important is that no case involving Mr Pletnev ever existed in Switzerland. Nor has one ever been posted on this thread.

Edited July 29, 2010 by Wozzit

[Wozzit]

A report from the German Press Agency dpa has just appeared on the internet stating that Mr Pletnev returned to Thailand and appeared in Court again this morning for the 12-day bail renewal hearing. It states that he was accompanied by a female relative. It adds that the police have still not submitted the case to the Court.

http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/news/337175,case-a-challenge-god.html