Thai Immigration Cancells Visa And Blacklists Composer Mickhail Pletnev

[Jingthing]

A few posters have suggested that the Russian police are corrupt. That would explain why he was not found guilty of two previous charges.

What two previous charges exactly? First time I have heard of this.

[rametindallas]

These are the kind of decisions that are made by ministry officials who are in their positions because of corruption rather than competence. Non of the ministrys respect the other ministrys and each believe they are a power unto themselves. I am surprised the system functions as well as it does. In the end, those with connections, and/or money, will get proper justice. I think, if Mr. Pletnev should prevail in the courts, that he will have ample grounds to sue for defamation (very popular type of lawsuit here).

If this man didn't think he had a good chance in court, I can't believe he would come back. One doesn't need to live here for long to realize that. He possibly made an enemy somehow. Thailand is a dark and mysterious place; even for Thais.

[Jimi007]

Any links to these stories about him being accused elsewhere?

Here's one of the Thailand-based news reports I remembered reading previously on the subject....

Pattaya Daily News, repeating other media accounts

Interesting back ground. I am really wondering why he did come back in the first place after reading that. Jingthing read here!

Update:

Thailand revokes visa of Russian maestro on rape charge

BANGKOK, July 21, 2010 (AFP) - Thailand has cancelled the visa of Russian conductor Mikhail Pletnev, meaning he faces deportation even if child rape charges against him are dropped, an immigration official said Wednesday.

"The Thai immigration bureau has blacklisted him on the grounds that his behaviour is detrimental to Thailand," said Major General Pansak Kasamsan, deputy commissioner at the bureau.

"His Thai visa was automatically revoked after his name was blacklisted," he said. "He would eventually be deported whether it goes to trial or the charges are dropped."

Pletnev, artistic director of the Russian National Orchestra, was charged in early July with the rape of a 14-year-old boy in Pattaya, where he has a house.

He denies the charge, which carries a sentence of up to 20 years in jail, and was released on bail.

The award-winning maestro was allowed by a Thai court to travel overseas but is required to report back every 12 days. He returned to Thailand over the weekend after attending a music festival in Macedonia.

Pletvev told Russian media Wednesday that he had been given permission by the court to leave the country again. It was unclear whether the cancellation of his visa would affect his travel plans.

"My mother's birthday is in a few days and I cannot and don't want to miss it. The lawyer has just told me that permission had been obtained," Pletnev told RIA Novosti.

Pletnev, 53, founded the Russian National Orchestra in 1990 just before the break-up of the Soviet Union and his arrest has sent shock waves through Russia's musical world.

He is a member of President Dmitry Medvedev's advisory council on culture and art, and in 2005 won a Grammy award for best chamber music performance.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2010-07-21

So, he may be tried, or the charges could be dropped. Either way according to the law here as I know it, he would be detained until deported and or awaiting trial. That's what happened to guy I know that was just drunk on a motorbike and hurt a Thai person. Must be nice to be rich! Above the law? I really don't know....

[Jingthing]

If this man didn't think he had a good chance in court, I can't believe he would come back. One doesn't need to live here for long to realize that. He possibly made an enemy somehow. Thailand is a dark and mysterious place; even for Thais.

Sure, it LOOKS like he thought he had a good chance. But we can't know what was already decided before he left. Another factor ... do Russia and Thailand have an extradition agreement?

[jayjay0]

Perhaps someone who understands Thai law better than myself can clarify or confirm, but I was of the understanding that any foreigner who is charged or arrested automatically has their Visa revoked/cancelled and also is automatically blacklisted. I'm assuming also then that if that person is found Not Guilty after a Trial, they are then able to have this reversed.

I did some research for those that are interested (click here) . . . don't know how accurate it is but seems like #6 and #7 would apply in this case.

Good post I would tend to put 8 on the list also.

"it seems" the two of you are reading a very different link to me:

6. Having been imprisoned by the judgment of the Thai Court ….

7. Having behavior which would indicated possible danger to the public ….. or being under warrant of arrest by competent officials of foreign governments.

8. Reason to believe that entrance into the Kingdom was for the purpose of being involved in prostitution, the trading of woman of children, drug smuggling, or other types of smuggling which are contrary to the public morality.

He hasn't been imprisoned (or even judged) by a Thai Court, there is no mention of any foreign warrant out for his arrest, nor of his being a danger to the general public, a drug smuggler, or involved in the sex trade.

Maybe you can conjure up something else out of thin air.

Sorry you are rite he is not guilty of 6 I would like to commend you for reading the article although as you will see I disagree with you. Funny no one else picked up on that number 6.

Perhaps you should reread 7 and 8 they say nothing about

beaning imprisoned (or even judged) by a Thai Court, there is no mention of any foreign warrant out for his arrest, nor of his being a danger to the general public, a drug smuggler, or involved in the sex trade.

As has already been shown on this thread he has been charged in another country more than once. Now he is living in the city noted for this kind of activity in another country. With a record like his back in Russia why did he move to that kind of city. Seems suspicious to me.

Yes he has not been convicted but with his track record I would not let him baby sit my kids. Seems kind of funny every body hollering that he hasn't been found guilty yet well I am here to tell you he has not been found innocent yet. And unless people would let him baby sit there kids with out giving it a second thought I would suggest they say nothing. Just a suggestion.:jap:

Edited July 21, 2010 by jayjay0

[kuffki]

Perhaps someone who understands Thai law better than myself can clarify or confirm, but I was of the understanding that any foreigner who is charged or arrested automatically has their Visa revoked/cancelled and also is automatically blacklisted. I'm assuming also then that if that person is found Not Guilty after a Trial, they are then able to have this reversed.

I did some research for those that are interested (click here) . . . don't know how accurate it is but seems like #6 and #7 would apply in this case.

Good post I would tend to put 8 on the list also.

"it seems" the two of you are reading a very different link to me:

6. Having been imprisoned by the judgment of the Thai Court ….

7. Having behavior which would indicated possible danger to the public ….. or being under warrant of arrest by competent officials of foreign governments.

8. Reason to believe that entrance into the Kingdom was for the purpose of being involved in prostitution, the trading of woman of children, drug smuggling, or other types of smuggling which are contrary to the public morality.

He hasn't been imprisoned (or even judged) by a Thai Court, there is no mention of any foreign warrant out for his arrest, nor of his being a danger to the general public, a drug smuggler, or involved in the sex trade.

Maybe you can conjure up something else out of thin air.

Sorry you are rite he is not guilty of 6

Perhaps you should reread 7 and 8 they say nothing about

beaning imprisoned (or even judged) by a Thai Court, there is no mention of any foreign warrant out for his arrest, nor of his being a danger to the general public, a drug smuggler, or involved in the sex trade.

As has already been shown on this thread he has been charged in another country more than once. Now he is living in the city noted for this kind of activity in another country. With a record like his back in Russia why did he move to that kind of city. Seems suspicious to me.

Yes he has not been convicted but with his track record I would not let him baby sit my kids. Seems kind of funny every body hollering that he hasn't been found guilty yet well I am here to tell you he has not been found innocent yet. And unless people would let him baby sit there kids with out giving it a second thought I would suggest they say nothing. Just a suggestion.:jap:

The only rumor(that i am aware of) about being charged in another country is that he was charged in Russia.

To me its nothing but a rumor because noone has provided any links to the facts.

He is an advisor to Russian President on culture, so i really doubt this rumor to be true, because if he was i really do not think Russian President would want to have him as an advisor.

[stepenwolf1958]

Update:

Thailand revokes visa of Russian maestro on rape charge

BANGKOK, July 21, 2010 (AFP) - Thailand has cancelled the visa of Russian conductor Mikhail Pletnev, meaning he faces deportation even if child rape charges against him are dropped, an immigration official said Wednesday.

"The Thai immigration bureau has blacklisted him on the grounds that his behaviour is detrimental to Thailand, said Major General Pansak Kasamsan, deputy commissioner at the bureau.

"His Thai visa was automatically revoked after his name was blacklisted," he said. "He would eventually be deported whether it goes to trial or the charges are dropped."

Pletnev, artistic director of the Russian National Orchestra, was charged in early July with the rape of a 14-year-old boy in Pattaya, where he has a house.

He denies the charge, which carries a sentence of up to 20 years in jail, and was released on bail.

The award-winning maestro was allowed by a Thai court to travel overseas but is required to report back every 12 days. He returned to Thailand over the weekend after attending a music festival in Macedonia.

Pletvev told Russian media Wednesday that he had been given permission by the court to leave the country again. It was unclear whether the cancellation of his visa would affect his travel plans.

"My mother's birthday is in a few days and I cannot and don't want to miss it. The lawyer has just told me that permission had been obtained," Pletnev told RIA Novosti.

Pletnev, 53, founded the Russian National Orchestra in 1990 just before the break-up of the Soviet Union and his arrest has sent shock waves through Russia's musical world.

He is a member of President Dmitry Medvedev's advisory council on culture and art, and in 2005 won a Grammy award for best chamber music performance.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2010-07-21

Thanks for this amendment Georg. Now everything is much clearer.

It means this was all covered up in diplomacy. As they must to follow orders from the top of their establishment and Russians, all what they could do is just as they did it. Blacklist him so to cancel visa so to deport him.

Read my lips: LET HIM GO FREE. Shame for Thailand. Well done Russians. WHO lost the face?

He is a member of President Dmitry Medvedev's (so the Putin is there also) advisory council on culture and art, and in 2005 won a Grammy award for best chamber music performance.

So, this statement is so pathetic than.

"The Thai immigration bureau has blacklisted him on the grounds that his behaviour is detrimental to Thailand, said Major General Pansak Kasamsan, deputy commissioner at the bureau". Pathetic is even to try to give any explanation!!!

BTW how about the court first? Any proof for blacklisting of Pletnikof?

What's the message? ANY detrimental act is allowed in Thailand and no any penalty for you if you are rich and influental as Pletnikof?

Amazing Thailand.

P.S. I hope someone will ask PM to comment this all.

[jayjay0]

A few posters have suggested that the Russian police are corrupt. That would explain why he was not found guilty of two previous charges.

What two previous charges exactly? First time I have heard of this.

In Russia it has been posted on this thread.The article also says that there was a charge against him in Switzerland but it was dropped.

I see where a previous poster is liking him to Putin. Not sure if Putin would like the inference in the context the poster meant it.

Edited July 21, 2010 by jayjay0

[Wozzit]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think if there is no conviction, he DOES get his life back. As far as being depressed/suicidal, what could possibly be more depressing than getting sent to Thai prison on a long sentence?

I agree with the latter comment, but not the former. I have spoken with a friend who works in a classical music management company in Europe. He says the engagement diary of someone like Pletnev will normally be close to full for 2 - 3 years in advance. He added Pletnev is now being dropped from all engagements like a stone and replacement conductors being contracted in his place! No-one wants anyone on the concert platform with any connection to anyone suspected of being a pedophile. 'Case withdrawn' does not withdraw the stigma in the same way as 'found not guilty' does. So whether guilty or innocent, he will have precious little work for a minimum of 2 years. Add to that the lost income from recordings - who is going to buy a Tchaikovsky CD with a pedohpile conducting when you can get the same piece with Zubin Mehta and other 'normal' conductors? Whatever happens he is likely to lose well over a million bucks plus per year. That's a powerful argument for wanting to clear his name. Sure he doesn't have to wallow in a Thai prison for number of years, but if you have spent your life being in the limelight abd your livelihood is taken away from you, my guess is he will be more than miserable. My next guess is that he knows this, and that's as good a good reason as any, if he's innocent, for wanting the case to go to trial.

The only rumor(that i am aware of) about being charged in another country is that he was charged in Russia.

To me its nothing but a rumor because noone has provided any links to the facts.

He is an advisor to Russian President on culture, so i really doubt this rumor to be true, because if he was i really do not think Russian President would want to have him as an advisor.

Macho Putin and Medvedev would surely never be associated with anyone with pedophile charges against him. Since they rule the state, they must check out everyone well in advance of there being put on official committees and the like.

Edited July 21, 2010 by Wozzit

[rametindallas]

If this man didn't think he had a good chance in court, I can't believe he would come back. One doesn't need to live here for long to realize that. He possibly made an enemy somehow. Thailand is a dark and mysterious place; even for Thais.

Sure, it LOOKS like he thought he had a good chance. But we can't know what was already decided before he left. Another factor ... do Russia and Thailand have an extradition agreement?

I agree. In Thailand, as far as I can tell, either the 'fix' is in or it is not at this man's socioeconomic level.

I would mention to a lot of posters who refer to the 'Thai Justice System' as though it was monolithic. It is not even cohesive. Each part is it's own fiefdom that cannot be challenged or someone will lose face and all his allies will lose face. This is why mistakes cannot get corrected and the system continues with the process. Guilt or innocence is secondary to 'face' and relationships in this country.

[MegaMik]

I just got a question: if the kid was yours, were all of you still supporting the paedophile farang and blaming Thai justice? LOL

Don't worry, if the court would prove he's guilty, not fabricating any evidence, most of us here probably write hateful posts about him.

You are missing the point, Thai justice has to prove his guilt before anyone can judge him, even you. LOL

[elcent]

with the revokation of the visa he wont be able to leave the country until the case is finished. It doesn't matter if the visa is revoked or not. The court may not grant another leave for these reasons until the case is finished.

Russian media is reporting the Court gave him permission to leave again and he is planning on going to Moscow for his mother's birthday later this week prior, he hopes, to returning for the next bail hearing. Remember also the original reports said if he was in the country, the police would apprehend him and escort him to the airport for deportation. So someone wants him out of the country before that next Court hearing.

http://www.mn.ru/int.../187942294.html

Frankly time will tell, but this is sounding like a face saving theater for both sides. He beats the charges or they are quietly dropped (but that would be a loss of face for the police/Thai authorities), kick him out (WHY? if not guilty!) ... to save face. Give and take, and maybe give up all his Thailand assets, which reportedly are a lot.

It certainly is no face-saver for the Russian. Without the chance to clear his name in court, he is for all time branded as a pedophile. He's forever guilty. Withdrawing the charges will only add to the conviction that he's been set-up and the Thai government wanted him out of the way before their case collapses. It may save face, but he still loses everything. Imagine yourself in his position (assuming he is innocent)! I'd be near suicidal, I think.

It could happen that he'll be held in IDC (VIP case) then until the case is finished, dropped or anything else and before deportation. This is what was practiced in the past. Not sure how they handle it now.

Certainly a big pressure is being put on the accused person.

[elcent]

always good to remember this http://civoc.com/m/articles/view/Reminder-of-Universal-Human-Rights-Declaration

Thailand has the seat in UNHRC, what happened to that? Should be a daily lecture in all executive offices and the ministry of justice.

[stepenwolf1958]

I do think that it's no more fair to say that Thailand is a haven for pedophiles than it is to prejudge the accused, nor an intelligent way of responding to the media, which everyone knows can't be taken seriously. The United States is crawling with them, they're loudmouthed and arrogant even where employed in school systems. Thankfully, I've not found myself required to share space with people like that or with heavy substance abusers, in fact, of the many people I know in Thailand, none of them are like that, so I'm proud and happy to be here. In the states, I couldn't get away from them. I hope and pray for a fair resolution of this tragic event, and encourage Thailand (and everyone) to be fair, reasonable and forgiving.

At last...a voice of reason. Well said sir!

Well said just because you are Thai?

[MegaMik]

Who really gives a dam_n what a Russian Ambassador has to say? The Russians are taking over organised crime all over Thailand. Do you think these rich Russians who were Communists and some former KGB officers word is worth a dam_n?! If you think Thailand is crooked, try Russia where every citizen is terrified of the police & the court system. How many tens of thousands of Russians do you thing are in the Russian prisons where they guards turn their heads and allow rape and murder every single day? Russia is not part of the West and cannot be compared, even with Thailand where people have many more rights than the average Russian. But, this guy is a rich Russian and expects to be treated as royalty in Thailand just as he has been treated in Russia.

You really amaze and amuse me sometimes Grey 13.

The fact that the guy we are talking about is Russian is irrelevant, he could be of any nationality.

It's the Thai authorities handling of this case is what this is all about, not how many Russians are mafia members.

We all know about the Russian mafia but that doesn't mean all Russians belongs to it.

[stepenwolf1958]

This is my opinion only;

They tried for a shakedown, but the guy didn't bite.

So they arrested him, he still didn't bite.

They saw that he wasn't going to play by Thai rules (where everything goes away if you throw Baht at it).

Realising that he was sticking to his story, was high(ish) profile and that the publicity meant that this one had to be ended somehow, they bailed him - but allowed him to leave the country, thinking that he would never dare return.

When he did return to face his accusers in court, they didn't want that, so they are going to kick him out of the country without giving him the chance to prove his innocence.

If they did allow him to go to court, and the court didn't find him guilty, some senior(ish) police would lose face, and they don't want to chance that.

No one now sees any way to make any money out of this one, so "let's just kick him out and forget about all this" is the easy option; if he never goes to court, then he must have been guilty, so everyone was right and face is saved.

Right to bull eye

Yes, could be like you said but this time all goes very high. That guy is a big shark in Russia and Thailand and he will not step back if they tried to extort some money, as very often they do to farangs. This time guy will show them (if he didn't do it) to DON'T MESS WITH RUSSIANS old and well known rule.

Notice that I haven't touched on whether he did it or not, that seems irrelevant to the Thai way of thinking. Baht is King, and Queen, and government..................... If right at the start someone hadn't seen the opportunity to trouser some folding, this would never have seen the light of day.

IMO of course.

[Seismic]

I think this thread has opened my eyes to the type of posting that goes on here, seems to be

1, check email

2, check for news clippings from thai visa

3, reply with [outrage, incredulousness, pomposity, moderator warning, agreement, new slant, here we go again,moderator warning, on-topic post(generally ignored), defence,attack,more defence,vitriolic attack(occasionally removed), Thai defence, on-topic post(generally ignored), humour,falang defence,vitriolic attack(occasionally removed),on-topic post(generally ignored), moderator warning, more Falang defence, post totally ignoring the first 3 pages], and......I think we are back to outrage again.........or could we see another quick Vitriolic attack before the obligatory 'news update by George',

Ok so lets go through that,

I have yet to see a credible (non expired) link to Pletnevs 'previous charges'

how can I say this to the 35% of posters, ahh I know, HE IS BACK IN THE COUNTRY !!,

Thai law allows Convicted criminals to be deported and have visa's cancelled, Sure they can cancel his visa anytime, it is the right of the issuing country, but as he hasnt been convicted of anything, or shown to have done anything detrimental to the country, then where is the rational??

The only current 'evidence' that is proven, would be considered hearsay in many other countries courts.

and just for the record, my personal pet hate................

for the last 12 years, we have seen lots and lots of front page pictures on "pattaya mail" et al, of farangs caught "in flagrante delicto" with young boys or the occasional young girl....has anyone seen a 3-6 month follow up in the same newspaper detailing their conviction and incarceration ??,

well I certainly havnt, which leads me to believe either ,

a) they were found innocent and released, but it wanst newsworthy, or

they managed to get out of the country.....a little poorer,

[RKASA]

Thinking that the guy is innocent just cause he came back to thailand is a bit too much. I'm not a cops fan, but i seriously doubt that an innocent man is pedo-charged for nothing. I guess most of us think the same here (thai legal system aside...)

In the US whole groups of people and families have been railroaded into prison and found years later to be innocent. When the charge is harming a child most peoples brain stop functioning and only anger rules their opinions. Natural I suppose, but we have seen enough cases by now we should chill out a bit. He was once accused before that only makes him a prim target for a scam. Always judge by the facts not the innuendo.

[Wozzit]

It could happen that he'll be held in IDC (VIP case) then until the case is finished, dropped or anything else and before deportation. This is what was practiced in the past. Not sure how they handle it now.

Certainly a big pressure is being put on the accused person.

The Court yesterday once again gave him permission to leave the country until the next bail hearing, and media sources are claiming he may already have left. If that is the case, then the Immigration authorities will ensure he does not return. Appalling!

[elcent]

I think this thread has opened my eyes to the type of posting that goes on here, seems to be

1, check email

2, check for news clippings from thai visa

3, reply with [outrage, incredulousness, pomposity, moderator warning, agreement, new slant, here we go again,moderator warning, on-topic post(generally ignored), defence,attack,more defence,vitriolic attack(occasionally removed), Thai defence, on-topic post(generally ignored), humour,falang defence,vitriolic attack(occasionally removed),on-topic post(generally ignored), moderator warning, more Falang defence, post totally ignoring the first 3 pages], and......I think we are back to outrage again.........or could we see another quick Vitriolic attack before the obligatory 'news update by George',

Ok so lets go through that,

I have yet to see a credible (non expired) link to Pletnevs 'previous charges'

how can I say this to the 35% of posters, ahh I know, HE IS BACK IN THE COUNTRY !!,

Thai law allows Convicted criminals to be deported and have visa's cancelled, Sure they can cancel his visa anytime, it is the right of the issuing country, but as he hasnt been convicted of anything, or shown to have done anything detrimental to the country, then where is the rational??

The only current 'evidence' that is proven, would be considered hearsay in many other countries courts.

and just for the record, my personal pet hate................

for the last 12 years, we have seen lots and lots of front page pictures on "pattaya mail" et al, of farangs caught "in flagrante delicto" with young boys or the occasional young girl....has anyone seen a 3-6 month follow up in the same newspaper detailing their conviction and incarceration ??,

well I certainly havnt, which leads me to believe either ,

a) they were found innocent and released, but it wanst newsworthy, or

they managed to get out of the country.....a little poorer,

An other aspect is that there are no cases of lets say Japanese pedos, which I think outnumbers all other nations. Any reasonable explaination for that? At least in the not so distant past it was custom for japanese business men to come here and buy underaged(12y/o +) virgins for their pleassures.

[Wozzit]

Last thought for the evening. Can any of our Thai posters tell us if this case has resulted in a lot of comment in the Thai media and in Thai chat rooms like this one?

[stepenwolf1958]

If this story is in fact true, it makes a total mockery of justice in Thailand. Might this be because Pletnev has shown he will fight the case in Court and the authorities are so incensed by the international media response (which has highlighted the fact that Thailand is a haven for pedophiles rather than the efforts of the country to clean up its act) that they literally want the case and Pletnev to disappear? Wherever he is now, he cannot get back to Thailand and report back to the Court as ordered. So he is doubly damned. Accused of being a pedophile and treated as one without any shred of evidence being brought out in Court! Yet not even allowed to prove his innocence (if that is the case). What makes this even more disgraceful is that the Immigration Chief has acted before getting a reply from the "Child and Women Unit". I am shocked and appalled.

MAYBE WE SHOULD WAIT UNTIL HE IS CONVICTED ? JUST A THOUGHT LA !.....

Perfectly fair point. But it seems the Thai Justice System will not even give him that opportunity! I hope there is an international outcry over this.

I think you may be looking at it the wrong way.

They've stopped his visa so he can't come back and face charges.

What if influential people from whichever country have found a way to let him go free without Thailand losing face.

The Thais can't prosecute him because they've put him on a blacklist and won't let him back into the country.

I wonder who gets to keep all the guy's assets in Thailand. Hasn't he got houses and businesses all over the place?

Makes you think.

Some of you are totally missing the point. The guy CAME BACK LAST WEEK AND REPORTED TO COURT JUST AS HE SAID HE WOULD DO. After his court appearance he told the press, he came back to prove his integrity, and to show he's a man of his word. He also stated he knows who is behind the charges, and that it's pretty much a frame up. THAT is not what the Thai courts expected. They figured he would not come back, but when he did, and reported to the court as he was supposed to, they had to come up with something else. So, cancel the visa and blacklist him, even though he's hasn't been found guilty of a single thing.

If I were the Russian Ambassador, I would be DEMANDING a meeting with Abhist and voicing my serious disapproval of what is going on, and then call a major press conference with every news media, local and international, and totally trash the justice system here in Thailand, exposing it for the corrupt entity that it really is.

Thank God you are not Russian Ambassador, othervise you would make a war so easy. Joking, of course, sorry..

But to tell you" even if there will be not any protest note in diplomacy, it might be all is hushed up, covered by influent and powerful politicians from Rusia as he has very big sharks there as friends.

If he is man of honour, as he said he will keep his word to be back so he did, he will not give up.

Ig Thais don't want to open process, as someone tried to extort his money and set him up-he will engage a lawyer and evil one who will shake Thais as well. It's expected if diplomacy didn't cover all.

Next, what is purpose to call PM? Again to hear story what we know? I don't think any diplomat will do. They will use protest note as way. We will see...

[MegaMik]

Sorry, I'm reading this development a different way...

If he's blacklisted and has his visa canceled, he'd either have to leave the country, or be actively deported by the Thai authorities, and be unable legally to return.

In that case, he'd never be present for the completion of the pending legal proceedings. So I'm not sure how the case could proceed to a verdict in those circumstances.

It seems rather a way of Thailand getting rid of the guy without having to put a prominent Russian artist on trial.... If true, that would seem to benefit a fair number of different interests in this mess.

...leaving aside the question of whether the guy is guilty or innocent. He's been accused before, so this episode would just be another one added to the list.

thanks for your opinion. I am pretty fed up with the Thai haters. Its nice to get one not based on Bias

Not being the lawyer most of these posters are I really can't say that he has to be deported because they canceled his visa. I am sure that the Thai legal system is the same as the one's I am familiar with in the US and Canada. You will notice I said legal system not Justice system. They are two separate animals. It is not uncommon in both countries to have a law that will nullify another one. In point perhaps they can hold him under another law.

Yes every one is rite he has not been convicted. However this is not his first charge would all these high moral minded people let him baby sit there kids.

Yes the Russian embassy might come in with there guns a blazing. But why, are they afraid he might return to Russia remember he has a reputation there for this kind of thing.

Another two posts where they judge without a previous sentence.

Read the Moscow news http://www.mn.ru/arts/20100708/187918310.html

He was NOT convicted.

I don't know if he's guilty or not and you don't either.

Don't go for - where's there smoke.....

I'll wait until he's proven guilty, if it ever will go to court.

Furthermore, I don't think many people here writing posts in TV forum are Thai haters, only pretty tired of being targets for what Thailand is known for, corruption and I'll bet you most Thais are also pretty tired of it.

[stepenwolf1958]

Sorry, I'm reading this development a different way...

If he's blacklisted and has his visa canceled, he'd either have to leave the country, or be actively deported by the Thai authorities, and be unable legally to return.

In that case, he'd never be present for the completion of the pending legal proceedings. So I'm not sure how the case could proceed to a verdict in those circumstances.

It seems rather a way of Thailand getting rid of the guy without having to put a prominent Russian artist on trial.... If true, that would seem to benefit a fair number of different interests in this mess.

...leaving aside the question of whether the guy is guilty or innocent. He's been accused before, so this episode would just be another one added to the list.

thanks for your opinion. I am pretty fed up with the Thai haters. Its nice to get one not based on Bias

Not being the lawyer most of these posters are I really can't say that he has to be deported because they canceled his visa. I am sure that the Thai legal system is the same as the one's I am familiar with in the US and Canada. You will notice I said legal system not Justice system. They are two separate animals. It is not uncommon in both countries to have a law that will nullify another one. In point perhaps they can hold him under another law.

Yes every one is rite he has not been convicted. However this is not his first charge would all these high moral minded people let him baby sit there kids.

Yes the Russian embassy might come in with there guns a blazing. But why, are they afraid he might return to Russia remember he has a reputation there for this kind of thing.

Oh, this is too much even from you man. This time you surpassed yourself, even.

Where you get that that any one here said he is innocent?

Again, as million times before yo did it here, you misunderstood whole point.

The point here is about juidicial system allowed him to go free without any chance we see he is guilty or not. That was the point here and read all posts carefully. This way it looks like you just want to opone again.

BTW don't be sarcastic to all of us here so to say we are high moral minded people because yes we ARE high moral minded people in this discussion.

Charged or not in some other country, it's irrelevant here and in this case and we are commenting about Thai way to accuse the man and after that to let him go. We are wondering how come. That's all.

[Jingthing]

OK, on the face of it, now knowing of previous legal entanglements in Russia (but no convictions) the blacklisting of Mr. Pletnev makes more sense. Certainly someone who was convicted of pedo charges would expect to be blacklisted here if that was known to the Thai authorities. The key here is that he has yet to be convicted of anything like this anywhere as of this date.

Edited July 21, 2010 by Jingthing

[anotheruser]

Just a few thoughts:I suppose the authorities have the power whether or not someone is convicted of a crime here in Thailand or not, to cancel that person's visa and a similar power if it suits the authorities to blacklist him. Across the world immigration authorities or equivalent have the powers for example to refuse visa's etc to anyone without giving reasons.

Correct?

This is correct. It is not a right to enter any country. You can be denied entry for any reason that any country wants to, There is no burden of proof needed to be declared undesirable to enter.

[somchai69]

The Court yesterday once again gave him permission to leave the country until the next bail hearing, and media sources are claiming he may already have left.

If that is the case, then the Immigration authorities will ensure he does not return. Appalling!

That does appear to be the situation, fascinating, eh?

Did someone pull some strings to make sure he cannot face the court???????????????

[moe666]

Just a few thoughts:I suppose the authorities have the power whether or not someone is convicted of a crime here in Thailand or not, to cancel that person's visa and a similar power if it suits the authorities to blacklist him. Across the world immigration authorities or equivalent have the powers for example to refuse visa's etc to anyone without giving reasons.

Correct?

This is correct. It is not a right to enter any country. You can be denied entry for any reason that any country wants to, There is no burden of proof needed to be declared undesirable to enter.

There is no right to stay there either.

[anotheruser]

Just a few thoughts:I suppose the authorities have the power whether or not someone is convicted of a crime here in Thailand or not, to cancel that person's visa and a similar power if it suits the authorities to blacklist him. Across the world immigration authorities or equivalent have the powers for example to refuse visa's etc to anyone without giving reasons.

Correct?

This is correct. It is not a right to enter any country. You can be denied entry for any reason that any country wants to, There is no burden of proof needed to be declared undesirable to enter.

There is no right to stay there either.

This is also correct.

[MAJIC]

So before even being found guilty these %% treat him like he is.........so much for the fair treatment rulling

In Thailand You are Guilty until you are proven innocent.

No different from anywhere else, UK is the same now, you are treated and assumed as being guilty until YOU can prove you are innocent.

That is not the official/Judiciary view,or Law in the UK.