Extension Of Stay

[sirhollyBKK]

my Non Immigrant O visa says must be utilized before september 25th 2010

I am 52 years old

planning to do my last visa run on september 23rd and stay another 90 days

can I apply for extension of stay based on retirement within those 90 days or should I do it before the last visa run

the problem is, I havn't wired the THB 800k into my thai bank account yet.

is HSBC Bangkok branch acceptable or does it have to be a "real" thai bank?

[Lite Beer]

Do the border run as planned on 23rd Sept.

Apply for the extension about 60 days after.

The money has to be in the bank 2 months before applying.

It has to be a bank in Thailand.

[sirhollyBKK]

thanks a lot for quick reply

very glad it still works out for me

[Cuchulainn]

HSBC (in a Thai branch) is absolutely fine.

[jfchandler]

If you're late on wiring the funds into your Thai bank account for retirement-based extension of stay, you always have the alternative of using the "combination" approach, which has no "seasoning" requirement.

If you have any documentable monthly income from any source inside or outside Thailand, you get a verification letter for that amount from your home country's consulate in Thailand.

Then you make up the difference through your lump sum bank deposit. Except using the combo method, the remaining money can be deposited into your Thai bank account any time up to right before you apply for the extension.

[Tod Daniels]

Actually the remaining money doesn't even need to be in a thai bank. You ONLY need the letter from your embassy stating you have the difference in income from your country. That is totally okay.

As an example:

I had an 'acquaintance' who had 600K baht in a thai bank account and got a letter from his embassy which said he had an additional 200K baht in income from his country.

Even thought that money wasn't here; (here, as in inside thailand), it flew thru with NO 'seasoning clause', and more importantly it flew thru with NO questions from the Immigration Officials at Changwattana as it met the minimum requirement for retirement 800K baht.

Edited July 28, 2010 by tod-daniels

[jfchandler]

Tod is more of an expert on these matters than me... but to add some clarification:

If someone uses the combination approach to satisfy Immigration's income requirement for a retirement-based extension of stay:

--the monthly income you document to and thru your Consulate's income letter can be from any (legal) source, inside or outside Thailand. The requirements for what kind of documentation the consulates want from you, in order to issue the income letter that you bring to Thai Immigration, vary from country to country.

--then regarding the other funds on deposit in the bank, I believe you'll separately need to document those to Thai Immigration via a recent bank letter/balance statement showing the necessary balance in your account. And usually, when the letters are coming from Thai banks, Immigration seems to want the bank letters dated very shortly before the date of your application for extension of stay.

And lastly, if memory serves, the combination method discussed here is only applicable for retirement-based extensions of stay, not for ones based on marriage to a Thai citizen where the income requirements also are different (and lower).

[Jingthing]

The 64,000 baht question that nobody has EVER been able to answer definitively here is how small can the income part be (in the embassy letter) using the combo method and still be accepted as a way to prevent the money seasoning requirement to be waived. For example, an income letter showing 10,000 baht and a bank account of 790,000 baht TECHNICALLY this is the combo method and TECHNICALLY there should be no money seasoning requirement for the banked part. In reality, nobody has been able to answer this question. There is nothing in writing about a minimum amount for the income portion in the requirements.

Edited July 28, 2010 by Jingthing

[AmericanInExile]

The 64,000 baht question that nobody has EVER been able to answer definitively here is how small can the income part be (in the embassy letter) using the combo method and still be accepted as a way to prevent the money seasoning requirement to be waived. For example, an income letter showing 10,000 baht and a bank account of 790,000 baht TECHNICALLY this is the combo method and TECHNICALLY there should be no money seasoning requirement for the banked part. In reality, nobody has been able to answer this question. There is nothing in writing about a minimum amount for the income portion in the requirements.

Why do you care...my understanding is that you are American. You can put whatever income figure you want on your "embassy letter" with no proof required. If you have to "pad" you monthly income a bit to equal whatever the baht-$ rate at the time requires, so be it. If a big white lie was good enough forPresidents Clinton ("I didn't have sex with that girl") and Bush (There are WMDs in Iraq") then a little one is surely good enough for ordinary Americans!

[Jingthing]

One would hope that visa threads would be troll free. Oh well ...

[AmericanInExile]

One would hope that visa threads would be troll free. Oh well ...

Mai kow chai...what's you point?

I was being sincere...why would any American (myself included) be concerned with your question as it never has to apply to them (unless and until the American embassy changes its policy or Thai immigration officers learn to read better English.

[Tod Daniels]

To AmericanInExile youve got SIX frickin posts, and joined in FEB of 2010; but now youre a goddamn thai visa expert??

Now unless youve been here a LONG time on other visas; I think youre WAY outta your league here.

To answer the poster known as Jingthing (which I can only decipher as the real thing) . ..

I recently had an acquaintance that had only 10,000 baht in his thai bank account but had a letter from his embassy that said he had a pension of 790Kbaht a year.

FWIW: Thai Immigrations at Changwattana took it without a question, and gave him an extension of stay for a year based on retirement without any 'seasoning' of his money.

I have never taken an acquaintance out to Changwattana with only 1000 baht in a thai bank and a letter from their embassy with the difference and tried to push it thru, but believe me, when I do I will post it here..

P/S: to the poster known as "AmericanInExile". .. DON'T type frickin' thai words using engrish!! That is actually retarded!! There is NO standardized way to sa-pell thai in engrish; เข้าใจไหม (In Thai-engrish it is "DO YOU UNDER-SA-TAND???)

Edited July 28, 2010 by tod-daniels

[jfchandler]

I think the answer to your question would be that most Americans, myself included, are taught to try to play by the rules, however they exist.

And, this being a foreign country and given our status as guests here, it kind of makes sense that one would want to proceed cautiously and play within the rules, especially since Thai immigration has it within their discretion to ask for backup documentation verifying any income claimed on a consulate letter.

I've often wondered the answer to the same question posed by Jing, but don't recall ever reading many reports on that direct subject here on TV.... I'm guessing that's because most people either go the full monthly income route, or the money in the bank route, and not a combination of the two. Lots of folks may not even be aware that the combination approach can be done for retirement based extensions.

[jfchandler]

You tell 'em Tod!!!! WOW...what fire....what passion.... what....?????

[moe666]

There could be ramifications for lying, you are swearing, by signing document that your income is what you say it is.

[AmericanInExile]

I think the answer to your question would be that most Americans, myself included, are taught to try to play by the rules, however they exist.

And, this being a foreign country and given our status as guests here, it kind of makes sense that one would want to proceed cautiously and play within the rules, especially since Thai immigration has it within their discretion to ask for backup documentation verifying any income claimed on a consulate letter.

Sorry I was never in the Boy Scouts so I guess my values are different from yours. In any case, have you ever know an immigration officer to request back-up documentation? I have never been asked for any in over 10 years of renewing a "retirement visa" via the monthly income method.

[Jingthing]

I think it's better if we steer the discussion away from techniques that involve lying to two governments just to get your extension, arguably both are criminal acts.

[Jimi007]

The 64,000 baht question that nobody has EVER been able to answer definitively here is how small can the income part be (in the embassy letter) using the combo method and still be accepted as a way to prevent the money seasoning requirement to be waived. For example, an income letter showing 10,000 baht and a bank account of 790,000 baht TECHNICALLY this is the combo method and TECHNICALLY there should be no money seasoning requirement for the banked part. In reality, nobody has been able to answer this question. There is nothing in writing about a minimum amount for the income portion in the requirements.

Why do you care...my understanding is that you are American. You can put whatever income figure you want on your "embassy letter" with no proof required. If you have to "pad" you monthly income a bit to equal whatever the baht-$ rate at the time requires, so be it. If a big white lie was good enough forPresidents Clinton ("I didn't have sex with that girl") and Bush (There are WMDs in Iraq") then a little one is surely good enough for ordinary Americans!

One would hope that visa threads would be troll free. Oh well ...

Mai kow chai...what's you point?

I was being sincere...why would any American (myself included) be concerned with your question as it never has to apply to them (unless and until the American embassy changes its policy or Thai immigration officers learn to read better English.

The point is most all of us Americans that have lived here a while know <deleted> we have to do. UK and other embassies have different requirements (proof of income) than the US Embassy. At the US Embassy you are required to swear under penalty of perjury that your statement is true. So the flippant comment about the US Embassy and ex US Presidents is not really appropriate here. Understand now?

Edited July 28, 2010 by Jimi007

[Tod Daniels]

I concur with the poster known as “jfchandler”;

Very FEW if any ‘acquaintances’ of mine have EVER used the combination method of income verification for an extension of stay based on retirement.

Either they have sufficient funds in a thai bank, or they go the “embassy income statement” route. Rarely (as in over 250 ‘acquaintances’) yet only 3-5 people have I seen use the ‘combo route’ (as I call it). ..

Although FWIW: Changwattana knows about the “combination of funds dealy” and there’s never been a problem with my ‘acquaintances’ there before…

And NOT to disagree with “jfchandler”, as that poster is far wiser than I am in “all thingz thai”. ..

BUT; we are about as far from “guests” in this frickin’ country as you could throw a stick!!

I pay my own way, I ask NOTHING from this place, and that is NOT a guest, no matter how you ‘spin’ it!!!

[Jingthing]

So back to my question -- so you CAN use 10K income letter combined with 790K banked and be confident the money doesn't need to be seasoned?

[Jimi007]

So back to my question -- so you CAN use 10K income letter combined with 790K banked and be confident the money doesn't need to be seasoned?

I would have to ask why would you bother? You can say your income is from any source, not just a government pension. If you're going to pay the $50 fee for the income statement and you have money in the bank, that is in essence income to you, correct? I don't understand why you would want to claim $320 a year income, which may raise a flag, rather than state you have 800,000 Baht income from your bank account. You wouldn't be lying as you have the required amount of "income" for the year. If you want to try it, let us know what happens. But the easier path is fairly clear.

[Tod Daniels]

“Jingthing”; I really don’t know the answer to that question. .. I wish I could tell you one way or the other.. BUT, until I have an ‘acquaintance’ who meets those requirements as in 10K in an thai bank and 790K with an income verification statement from his embassy, I honestly don’t know the answer. Sorry … (I'm not too proud to say I don't have a frickin' clue ..

As an aside (to everyone NOT from the United States) :

Actually it is quite sad that the American Embassy only asks you “pinky swear” or for you US people; to say “Scouts Honor” before they notarize that B/S piece of paper, which the thai immigrations takes without a single question ever being asked. ..

I recently saw “how many hoops”, an ‘acquaintance’ from the UK (as well as one from OZ) had to “jump thru” to get a piece of paper which looked the frickin’ same as the piece of paper from the US, only he got it from his embassy so it had UK (or AUS) letterhead at the top!! He needed bank statements, pension letters, etc.. .

It was totally pathetic, labor intensive and very troublesome for him, (ahh, not so much for me ).

I wish the US Embassy vetted the income verification statements much better than they do now , (and FWIW; I’m American!!).

In all reality, the paper from the US is a total “crock of shit”, and certainly NOT worth the paper it's printed on (even at $50US) !!

((off topic remark removed per OP request - lopburi3))

As an aside to "Jingthing": If you know someone in the Bangkok area who can use Changwattana and has just a little bit of money in a thai bank BUT has the income verification statement from their embassy, send me a P/M. I go to Changwattana a coupla times a week. Let's see if it worx, that's the ONLY way we'll know where their "cut off" is as far as $$ in the bank. I'm out nothing for tryin' it, except time. And seeing as I do abos-tively poso-lutely nothing every day except study the thai language, err I'm out nothing.. .

Edited July 30, 2010 by lopburi3

[Jingthing]

So back to my question -- so you CAN use 10K income letter combined with 790K banked and be confident the money doesn't need to be seasoned?

I would have to ask why would you bother? You can say your income is from any source, not just a government pension. If you're going to pay the $50 fee for the income statement and you have money in the bank, that is in essence income to you, correct? I don't understand why you would want to claim $320 a year income, which may raise a flag, rather than state you have 800,000 Baht income from your bank account. You wouldn't be lying as you have the required amount of "income" for the year. If you want to try it, let us know what happens. But the easier path is fairly clear.

I would never tell such a lie, so this is irrelevant to me. The reason is to avoid MONEY SEASONING!!

[jfchandler]

Tod, sorry, but I find this below an uncharacteristically senseless comment...

You make it seem like it's an issue of having vs not having sufficient funds for living here....

That's not the issue... The issue, for many people, is one of not wanting to park a goodly sum of money here earning virtually nothing, when instead, it could be earning much better and helping secure a good retirement by being wisely invested elsewhere.

IMHO: If you don't have 800K in a thai bank for 2 or 3 months outta the year you have NO business retiring here.

[Jimi007]

So back to my question -- so you CAN use 10K income letter combined with 790K banked and be confident the money doesn't need to be seasoned?

I would have to ask why would you bother? You can say your income is from any source, not just a government pension. If you're going to pay the $50 fee for the income statement and you have money in the bank, that is in essence income to you, correct? I don't understand why you would want to claim $320 a year income, which may raise a flag, rather than state you have 800,000 Baht income from your bank account. You wouldn't be lying as you have the required amount of "income" for the year. If you want to try it, let us know what happens. But the easier path is fairly clear.

I would never tell such a lie, so this is irrelevant to me. The reason is to avoid MONEY SEASONING!!

How is it a lie? For example; I have several million baht in a US bank account. I transfer from my US bank account to my Thai bank account. I can show that I spend well over 800,000 baht a year by my Thai bank account statements. As the dollar is down, why would I want to lose money on the current exchange rate to "season" my money. I also have money deposited into my US account every month from non governmental sources. When I applied in the US for my O-A visa I had to show I have the equivalent to 800,000 Baht in my US account to get my visa. And now if I was to reapply in the US, I would still have more than the required money. So, I don't understand what it matters as to what country your money happens to be in as long as you fulfill the required income level. I guess once again it is semantics between us... But I guess it's up to you what you consider income, I know I transfer more than the required amount per month or year to fulfill the intent of the law and the letter of the law. But if you interpretation of income doesn't include money you have here and are planning on spending here, I guess you are technically correct. I don't lie as I transfer money monthly and fulfill the requirements to the letter of the law.

[Jingthing]

This is silly. Money sitting in a bank is not income by any stretch of the imagination. Tell it to Bernie Madoff, I guess.

[jfchandler]

No, but interest or other recurring earnings generated from money that is sitting in the bank is income...for purposes of qualifying under the Immigration guidelines....

[Jimi007]

This is silly. Money sitting in a bank is not income by any stretch of the imagination. Tell it to Bernie Madoff, I guess.

Oh, but money sitting in a Thai bank account for three months is okay? Then I can spend it? It can't sit in a US bank account and be transfered monthly? I don't see the logic... It is money coming into Thailand and spent here. So, instead of extending my visa I should fly to the US every year and get a new one based on my accounts there?

[Jingthing]

No, but interest or other recurring earnings generated from money that is sitting in the bank is income...for purposes of qualifying under the Immigration guidelines....

Agreed. 100 percent. To be clear, I never said differently.

[Jingthing]

This is silly. Money sitting in a bank is not income by any stretch of the imagination. Tell it to Bernie Madoff, I guess.

Oh, but money sitting in a Thai bank account for three months is okay? Then I can spend it? It can't sit in a US bank account and be transfered monthly? I don't see the logic... It is money coming into Thailand and spent here. So, instead of extending my visa I should fly to the US every year and get a new one based on my accounts there?

I don't understand what your point is; we are talking about different things I think. There are four ways to retire here --

0-A visa (yes the money doesn't have to be in Thailand), eventually you need to convert to retirement extensions, but yes you could keep getting new O-A's in your home country

retirement extensions --

800K in Thai bank (SEASONED) OR

65K monthly income OR

combo income PLUS banked Thai money totaling 800K

Choose any method you prefer, but be clear not all applicants CAN use any method. For example, those without the qualifying income method can't use the 65K method; those without 800K saved can't use the 800K method, etc. This is not a one size fits all. There are options. If you can find one option that works for you, you're in. If you can swing multiple options, you then have a CHOICE.

Next ...

Edited July 28, 2010 by Jingthing