Dark Days Loom For Late-night Swingers

[Jai Dee]

I've already read a lot of members of this group saying in different posts that if such restrictions will be forced they'll try to do whatever possible not to obey them.

Really?

Examples please...

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=37750

kindly read this post if you think I did't mean what I said

I just did, and after scanning the entire thread I think you'll find that the main consensus was that such an energy saving initiative was unfeasible and just a load of <deleted>!

Also, of the posts in there by members wanting to watch TV after midnight, they were opting for VCD/DVD alternatives... not trying "to do whatever possible not to obey" the restrictions.

[pachooon]

Why not deal with the visa renewals at imigration rather than sending 100,000 on a long mini bus tour to the border for stamping passports.

That is what I call a real saving when it's a win win situation!

[haha]

<snip>

As for this nonsense it was never said that over 1800cc cars were to be banned. They were talking about stopping future imports of gas guzzlers but even that idea was dropped yesterday.

The three things that are left on the list for discussion are garages closing at 10pm till 5am excepting those on major routes.

Billboard lights to be turned off at 9pm.

Major shopping centres have to be provided with meter taxi parking and the police will have to arrange this.

So as usual it was a load of &lt;deleted&gt; and please try to get yourselves up to date guys as this sort of posting causes unnecessary worry and grief.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

after doing some research, I realized that solar power may not be applicable for every situation, but for billboards, and airports... check out these following websites.

http://www.solarlighting.com/htmlsite/billboard.html

http://www.solarairportlights.com/Default.aspx

I don't know how much this will help out the situation in regards to this energy crisis, but I would think it would be worth a feasibility study.

[chaiyapoon]

In the Uk industry is the major user of power and may be the same in Thailand although I doubt that yet.Significant savings can be made getting them to change their ways like getting most cleaning and maintenence done during the shift so all lights and power can be turned off.Currently many factories will have all lighting running at night for just a few dozen people working.Just getting them to seriously look at energy management would be a start.

In the countryside you see outside lights on all night even in very poor communities.

Give some incentives(tax reductions/cheap loans) to replace the ancient gas guzzling, fume spewing trucks and buses you see everywhere with modern more efficient models.

Bring in some kind of annual test for all vehicles to take out the unsafe poorly maintained ones.Would take 10% or more of vechiles off the road that shouldn't be there anyway.

Reduce the Armed forces activities for a period of time.

Certainly agree the way to go is to get the Royal family behind any truly effective measures.

Edited July 6, 2005 by chaiyapoon

[bajajvivek]

I've already read a lot of members of this group saying in different posts that if such restrictions will be forced they'll try to do whatever possible not to obey them.

Really?

Examples please...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=37750

kindly read this post if you think I did't mean what I said

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I just did, and after scanning the entire thread I think you'll find that the main consensus was that such an energy saving initiative was unfeasible and just a load of &lt;deleted&gt;!

Also, of the posts in there by members wanting to watch TV after midnight, they were opting for VCD/DVD alternatives... not trying "to do whatever possible not to obey" the restrictions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am just talking about the attitude. I don't think anybody has come here just to break laws.

[Jai Dee]

I am just talking about the attitude. I don't think anybody has come here just to break laws.

No drama... most people will develop an "attitude" if told that they cannot do something anymore...

Certainly agree the way to go is to get the Royal family behind any truly effective measures.

Agree 100%

If HRH were to publically support the governments initiatives, then the people would follow.

[bajajvivek]

I am just talking about the attitude. I don't think anybody has come here just to break laws.

No drama... most people will develop an "attitude" if told that they cannot do something anymore...

I agree that use of force will only provoke rebeleous attitude, still as educated and sensible people, we should understand the need of time. critisising anything is very easy. anyway, I don't think there's any use dradding this topic any further.

Cheers!

Vivek

[andyadam]

How about swithc off 1/2 the lights on the expressway!!!

Or better still switch off all headlights, woks in Egypt!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chiangmai Paul]

How about swithc off 1/2 the lights on the expressway!!!

Or better still switch off all headlights, woks in Egypt!!!!!!!!!!!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Great idea but Mr Big should start by turning the lights off or maybe only have 1 in 4 lights on along his red carpet raod in Sankamphaeng Chiangmai its a total nightmare (excuse the pun) travelling at night along this road as the lights are set to low and there are way to many

There must be more lights along this road then in the entire kingdom...such a waste

[BlackJack]

i would like it noted that:

1. it is brave to lump together the oil costs and the power costs

you need to seperate them

its like the USA using the World Trade saga to get rid of Saddam - in a way related but not true

here the electrical power is generated mostly from gas and lignite

the most power consumtion is used by aircon

oil is not the major power generator

oil - diesel, petroleum, etc for cars - 60% of oil imported

this is where the price is going up as CHina buys up stocks around the world

so the figures for oil and power generation will be different - ask any accountant

maybe the manufacturers and suppliers of gas, lignite, oil are just going for a massive payoff like SHELL _ CHECK THEIR DIV ON THE STOCK EXCHANGE

2. there are alternatives - bio fuels, solar, wind - that are being used to generate power around the world

did you know that there are recycling plants for rubber and plastics that generate power, reclaim oil and carbon black and gas

each one can generate enough power and fuel to run a small town

create jobs and make people less reliant on the grid

one country has been operating a trick little system that uses wind and solar -

the power output is equivalent to a small nuclear reactor

safe clean efficient - enough to run a large town and sell off power to the grid

BiO fuels - easily done

however a few things stopping the go ahead

1. capital outlay - not much compared to the trillions going up in smoke each year

2. whats in it for me syndrome - grease the path through the governent

3. the need to import farang know how -

4. remove tax - tax incentive - subsidise or interest free payments for investors

turning off the lights etc is like men having nose hair

they are a problem and if trimmed

they will grow back bigger than before

but then again - mai pen rai

[Insight]

I reckon that Mr T doesn't want to hike up the price of fuel to much as he's already loosing popularity. Instead, he's trying to get us to use less and keep it government subsidised.

Anybody else concour?

[Chua]

Enough complaints! Here's a constructive suggestion in regards to the oil issue before:

What if Thai government could DO ALL OF THESE THINGS AT THE SAME TIME, WITH THE STROKE OF A PEN:

* reduce oil/gas use

* reduce government expenses in foreign countries

* reduce traffic congestion, smog

* increase spending on Thai tourism

+ get a big boost of support from most of the Farang community

Sound impossible? Nope, it's dead easy:

Simply remove the requirement for Visas to be renewed OUTSIDE of Thailand!

NO MORE BORDER RUNS!!!

* no more wasted gas on hoards of vans, cars, trains, planes and buses on day-long trips to and from the borders

* farrang money spent on forced foreign overnight food / lodging would then REMAIN IN THAILAND! Many folks I know actually leave for days or weeks because they figure as long as their are being forced to leave the country, they might as well go for a while.

- only downside I see is loss of business for border-run companies -- but most of their expenses go for GAS, not Thai labor, and these outfits usually have other tour related bread & butter revenue streams.

All Thaksin has to do is shift the funding for staff currently handling these Visa in Malaysia, Singapore, Burma, etc to local Thai Immagration offices who can just as easily handle the rubber stamping.

= Chua =

[WhiteShiva]

One suggestion I have not seen yet - make Bangkok more pedestrian/cyclist friendly.

Repair/widen/clean up the sidewalks, keep motorbikes on the streets, and vendors off the footpaths. Provide more elevated walkways under the skytrain (like at Victory monument/Siam). Provide working traffic lights at pedestrian crossings.

In other words, give people an alternative. We don't all live & work along the sky-train route.......

WOW - 207 users reading this topic!!!!!

[PeaceBlondie]

It's very simple. All rooms in which government officials (starting with Mr. Thaksin) are present must not have any air conditioning, ever. Nobody ever again gets a motorcycle escort, except immediate members of the Royal family. All govt. officials must go to bed by 8 pm, and walk to work. No more plane flights, either.

[haha]

had some time, so, did some research on solar power. some very interesting stories about solar around the world. also, some forums.. enjoy.

http://www.solonmover.com/english/projekte/lproj.php

http://www.solarbuzz.com/News/NewsEUPR214.htm

http://www.alpinesurvival.com/system1swd.htm

http://www.scottevest.com/

http://www.batteriesareus.com/shop/product...products_id=113

http://www.odysen.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=116

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18424786.000

http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2004Dec/...41217028313.htm

[Joey Boy]

surely the tourist $$ being pumped into thailand on evening entertainment offset the amount being paid out of for the energy costs

[carlthailand]

I think they are just looking to up the ante on destroying the tourist dollar. Each department and ministers has to do their bit.

Some very good points on energy saving. Too many to quote. Been a great topic to read again on the energy issue.

Cc

[rstrauss]

Shut down half of all taxis in Pattaya. Will save a lot of fuel and be great for traffic flow. Also i wonder, why nobody talks about the waste of fuel in Bangkok traffic jams.

Edited July 6, 2005 by rstrauss

[cclub75]

Very interesting "paper" indeed which reminds us a fundamental data : thailand is rice exporter number 1.

- the agriculture = 47 % of total workforce (industry 14%, services 37%, 2000 estimations)

-but agriculture = 9 % of GDP only (industry 44, service 46,7 %, 2004 estimations)

-and agriculture consumes a huge amount of diesel...

Do you start to understand why the government MAKE all what it can to... gain time ?

But time is runing out.

If you let the price of diesel "float" freely, and if the price of crude oil continue to increase (which is again almost 100 % sure)

... then thai rice become too expansive... then .... MILLIONS of thai farmers will be exposed to massive layoff, unemployment...

And if they decide to continue to subsidize the diesel, then the deficit will explode... starting a financial crisis (depreciation of the THB).

This is what we call "a cruel dilemna".

We have a major crisis ahead of us.

Once again, the key is the crude oil price. Thailand's economic fate lays somewhere in an oil barril... Scarry.

[Upcountry]

So much to think about and respond to (because I can't resist) here.

I'm glad I'm being prompted to think before turning lights on and off - more use of night lights, etc.

I'm planning to sell my thirsty old 95 octane car and get something that runs on gasohol and is more efficient

I completely agree with the idea that, with aircon being a huge consumer of energy, educating consumers to insulate their homes, etc., would be a MAJOR improvement that would benefit the country for years to come - it's appalling that houses are build without anything between the ceramic roof tiles and hung ceilings. Ignorance! How about light filtering film on windows? I'm going to do that ASAP as well. I'm also planning to plant trees that will shield the South-facing windows.

Personally, I try to turn off lights and put up with heat/humidity whenever I can. I walked home from the car dealer (where I inquired about selling, trading in, etc.) even though they offered my a ride- exercise it a good thing. ;-).

I'm scratching my head about more sensible education an polices. As above, insulation improvements, alternate fuels. Let's get ethanol going here. Import and reduce taxes on hybrids - unless batteries have such short lives here that they are totally impractical.

What about educating and making home energy generation available to the mid/upper classes? I saw a photo about a solar/wind power combination energy generator. Why doesn't something like this get more attention? If they can make a solar powered hydrofoil, why not (at least partially) solar powered aircon?

Pardon my intensity, but this energy scare really has my attention - if returning to my home country was an option for my family, I'd consider getting out of here before it gets worse. I'd take my environmental consciousness back home where it's also needed!

[ovenman]

All of the measures that the powers-that-be propose for saving energy strike me as akin to dieting by binges interspersed with alternating periods of short fasting. I don't see how they'll ever effectively reduce energy consumption by not altering the general daily behaviour of people (e.g. setting the air-con thermostat a couple of degrees higher all the time).

[Chua]

Thai officials have released these new rules to save oil:

All gas stations must shut down from 12:01 pm to 11:59 am. Experts predict this will reduce consumption by 98% !!!

Exception: on Monday nights, stations may re-open from 2:39 AM to 2:42 AM !!

All lights must be turned off by 5pm.

Government offices may leave lights on overnight to keep ghosts of reason away.

Ban use of cars with gas tanks holding over 1 liter

Exception: Advertising vans driving all over town blasting BladeRunner-esque promos for political candidates may have double capacity tanks and start operations two hours earlier every morning

Require all restaurants to stop use of freezers and refrigerators!

Exception: starbucks can continue using them for fresh coffee.

Television and Radio not carrying 24 x 7 pro Government propaganda must lower broadcast power from 50,000 watts to 1.5 Watts.

Exception: Stations employing specially designated alternative power sources may continue operations at highest possible power: approved energy sources: Ox dung, solar energy imported from Siberia, and chickens on treadmills.

=chua=

Edited July 6, 2005 by Chua

[jrincon17]

testing 1 2

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I thought I heard some stupid things before , but this has to take the cake . I cant believe that they actually said these things . 1.8 or smaller , close bars and clubs on mondays . A/C off at lunch , its going to take more energy to cool that room or office off after it gets so hot in 1 hour than just regulating the t-stat. I could be the new PM of Siam and do a better job

[The Dan Sai Kid]

Why don't they introduce a congestion charge on routes served by the skytrain and underground - with the money raised from the congestion charge they could use it to subsidise the alternatives to driving and bring down the cost of fares on the afore-mentioned methods of transport.

Also, do you think Taksin banned TV after midnight cos Liverpool are in the champions league, and it's just too painful to watch them play after his takeover failed!

[billd766]

Why are they pussyfooting around this issue and screwing up tourist traffic which generates revenue.

They can implement some very simple measures:

1.  Increase the tax on petrol/gasoline/benzene so that the price per litre is gradually increased by 25%, 50%, 75% and then 100% - which would effectively double the price of today. Will definitely help the coffers, and make many people think before they start their car.  Don't forget what it might do to traffic.

This would be a good idea if the poor people who live in the countryside on less than 150 baht a day can afford it.

2.  This would foil the plans of all those stupid people who rush out and buy a car as soon as they get a 10,000 Baht/Month job.

A good idea if it would work.

3.  This will also force others to use the Skytrain and the Underground more - improving traffic on those lines, as well as profitability.  Although I think it is time (may be long overdue) that Skytrain(BTS) added another carriage to all their trains, as it is not practical to only add carriages during peak time.

I would vote for that as soon as the sky train and underground reach me 400 km from Bangkok. There are far more people who live outside the cities than live in them.

4.  Increase the Sales Tax(VAT) on new cars only.  This would piss off Toxins's cronies.  Hey but we are trying to save the country.

Again another good idea providing that the tax is reduced when I buy my next pick up in about 7 years or so.

5.  Drivers turning off their engines at intersections like Asoke/Sukhumvit or Rama IV/Tarua Road as the wait is more than 5 minutes during peak hours (sorry do not know the name of the road, the one going to the port). Appreciate the new displays that gives me wait times which are supposed to encourage drivers to turn off their engines, but they do not work most of the time. These have already been identified as 2 of the 6 worst intersections in BKK.

All of these are a good idea but I would think that much more fuel is consumed, power wasted etc in the cities. Where I live the weekly traffic jam is about 2 minutes long, once a week on market day. Most people drive around in older cars and pick ups because they can't afford a V8 gas guzzling Benz such as the government use. Most of the public offices up here don't even have air conditioning, the bars are closed around 11 at night, there are no advertising hoardings and the majority of people are in bed before 10 pm.

The people out in the sticks have been doing their bit for a long time. It is about time the city folk did some as well.

If the government wants to save money, sell all the Benz and use Toyota Corollas converted to run on gas. There is a lot of that down there.

Edited July 7, 2005 by tukyleith

[dereklev]

Dear Billd766

You need to close quotes for them to work!!!!

Try previewing you post first....

Makes your post very difficult to read....

[Martin]

This item filled the front page of the Bangkok Post yesterday.

I was pleased to see that TS is prepared to spell out that either Thailand tightens its belt, or its pants drop off.

As club75 says, there is a cruel dilemma (and it applies to all countries which import more fuel (of all sorts) than they export).

If the government continues to subsidise diesel, a foreign currency deficit will soon have Thailand in trouble, much the same as 1997.

But if the Government stops the subsidy, the price of diesel goes up and some businesses start to run at a loss, shut down and lay off their workers, whereupon other firms find they are getting less customers and are losing money. So they too shut down and so it goes on.

The government's only hope is to keep the same level of economic activity going on a reduced amount amount of fuel by getting everybody to be less wasteful (i.e. more frugal) with their fuel usage.

A quote from the Bangkok Post: "Mr Thaksin maintained a clear message had to be communicated to people that serious frugality was in order". And that gave me an increased admiration for TS. Not many politicians (in fact I can only think of Lee Kuan Yew) have the guts to point out something that is necessary, when the voters won't like it.

But read this quote, and ponder it: "The country is not so desperate that it must regulate oil imports, he (the Energy Minister) said". He wouldn't have mentioned it if they felt far, far away from taking that draconian step. They must be really serious to even mention that. Good for them!

I think they are remembering how failure to take drastic action in time lost this country its foreign reserves in 1997, and they are not going to slide down the slippery slope again. Good for them!

[Martin]

Joey Boy said: "surely the tourist $$ being pumped into thailand on evening entertainment offset the amount being paid out of for the energy costs "

but it probably doesn't come anywhere near it. And even if it did, the tourist dollar is a busting flush, anyway. The tourist dollar comes in with long-haul tourists and their numbers are shrinking every time rising fuel costs make the airlines increase their 'fuel surcharge' on air fares.

In a few years, we will be saying "What a white elephant we have in this big airport. The old airport at Don Muang easily handled this number of passengers". And the passengers won't be tourists with return flights booked; they will be pensioners coming here, on one-way tickets, to live where they don't have the winter heating costs of Scandinavia, Northern Europe etc.

It won't be a matter of beating swords into ploughshares. More a matter of turning hotels into Old Folks Homes. Thailand will probably do less badly than lots of other countries---the bamboo bends so it doesn't break.

Edited July 6, 2005 by Martin

[IMA_FARANG]

Dark days loom for late-night swingers

BANGKOK: -- Thailand is looking at more energy-saving measures to cut ballooning oil-import bills, which are slowing economic growth, officials said yesterday.

Thais may have to pay more for electricity, cut out evening trips to the golf-driving range or even stay home on Monday nights as bars and clubs are forced to close if the Cabinet approves a new raft of proposals, they said.

“We are testing the water with different ideas, to sound out which measure can be implemented,” Pornchai Rujiprapha, a senior Energy Ministry official said.

“For golf-driving ranges, as an occasional swinger I don’t think 9pm is the time to play,” Pornchai said.

Other proposals included obliging petrol stations to close at 10pm, instead of midnight and raising duties on, or banning cars with 1.8-litre engines or bigger, he said.

Pornchai said his ministry was working on estimating the amount of money the country could save from these measures, some of which have proved effective in the past.

“When we decided to close service stations from midnight to 10, oil demand went down by three to four per cent,” he said, referring to a voluntary campaign two years ago.

“So this time we expect demand to fall by at least two per cent after we close the pumps at 10,” he said.

It was not immediately clear which proposals the Cabinet might approve at its meeting next week.

Finance Minister Somkid Jatusripitak had opposed restricting oil imports and lowering strategic oil reserves and told reporters on Monday that such proposals had been dropped.

The government launched a voluntary campaign last month urging motorists to drive below 90kph, turn off air-conditioning during lunch breaks and switch off at least one light.

Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra has expressed disappointment at the results and threatened tougher measures unless people fell into line.

The government has spent Bt92 billion in subsidising retail fuel prices since January 2004, most of it on diesel used by millions of farmers who make Thailand the world’s biggest rice exporter.

It ended the subsidy on petrol in October and is phasing out that on diesel.

Thailand, which imports 90 per cent of its crude oil, spent Bt1 trillion on all fuels last year, the equivalent of 15 per cent of its gross domestic product, Energy Minister Viset Choopiban said last week.

“Revenues from our annual rice sales could pay for less than two months of crude purchases,” he told a business seminar on energy consumption.

“Oil prices will continue to keep their upward trend and will rise even further when the winter comes, therefore we must save now,” he said.

Chaipranin Visudhipol, president of the Advertising Association of Thailand, expressed support for the Energy Ministry’s proposal for lights on outdoor billboards to be turned off at 9pm.

“It’s a good measure. During this period of economic difficulty, it is the duty of everybody to help save energy,” said Chaipranin, who is also managing director of advertising agency TBWA\Thailand Co Ltd.

Chaipranin said the restriction would not create any difficulties for outdoor-media businesses or their clients. The hours after 9pm are not a prime-time period for billboards and few vehicles are on the road at that time, he said.

Chatchai Wiratyosin, marketing manager of Boonrawd Brewery Co Ltd, the maker of Singha Beer, said his company, which employs outdoor billboards as a major advertising medium, had no problems with the restriction.

“It doesn’t make much difference whether you turn the lights out at 9pm or midnight. People usually see the billboards in the daytime,” he said.

--The Nation 2005-07-06

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was in BKK from the 6th to 17 July.

I noticed that at least 25% of the hotels, condos, etc. have lights that remain on in the rooms all night. This seems to be especially true in many condos and apartments that cater to the higher-income residents that live there.

Tourist hotels also seem to have a large portion of the rooms lit until very late (after 2 to 3 a.m.). All you have to do is walk/drive down Sukhumvit Road to see what I mean.

[haha]

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18424786.000

http://www.geek.com/news/geeknews/2004Dec/...41217028313.htm

the website above talks about a new paper thin solar panel that is flexible and lightweight.

it just came to me that such a product could be adapted in such a way that it could be installed on the outer structures of buildings.

imagine the amount of power that could be generated by doing this.

then, imagine having this stuff put on the walls of all buildings in bangkok.

what do you think? good idea?

maybe some students at one of the universities here could look into it for a project.

just brainstorming....