I Sold My Condo

[wasaskater]

I will not use their names, since I assume it is against forum rules. Please do not be offended since I use nationality to tell them apart!

Back in April of this year a German(boyfriend)/Thai(girlfriend) couple came to look at my condo. They both liked it but he did not want to pay 1.4 million for it. A week later they come back, and ask to look at it again. He says he was willing to pay 1.2 million...but in Thai the girlfriend says she will pay the extra 200,000. So we agree to sign the contracts the next day. When they return they bring 3 other Thai people with them. One man and two women(on turns out to be her sister). The contracts are done in Thai, and are filled out by her sister(the contract says we will close in the month of August, so i can rent out the room till then). While we are filling out the contract the German goes and gets a massage...odd huh...I did not think about it at the time. Anyways, the sister fills out the contract for 1.4 million and the girlfriend, and the sister all sign as witness.(he did not obviously). Then they fill out a contract that says 1.2 million, and he comes back and signs it, with his girlfriend. I make copies of all the contracts and give them to the sister...and they in return give me a contract deposit. Since we dod not know when the are closing I ask that they give me 7 days notice so I can get the clear of debit letter, along with my email. It is getting dark by this point, and they ask if they can spend the night in the room. So I said sure ok...one night right?! In the morning, I find they have moved furniture, nailed pictures in the wall etc, broke dishes, etc. I tell them that all personal items have to go, until they buy the condo. No problem, they understand, see you in August.

Well I get a phone call in June...Hi we want to close sometime in July...what! I have a tenant already, when? Not sure, well email me with a date. No email.

July 19 @ 6pm they show up wanting to close...no phone call no notice nothing. Then they want to close Tuesday morning! I explain it takes 7 days to get a clear of debit letter. They say they want to stay in the condo till they close...learning from the prior mistake I say no, and tell them they can stay in the room once the have closed on the condo. I turn in the letter, and it is actually done in less than 7 days, but Monday & Tuesday are a holidays. In the meantime I have been emailing them trying to confirm Wed. as a closing date, but get no response. Then on Sunday they drop by the office and say they do not want to close...and they want their deposit back! What!!!!!

I tell them if they cancel the contract they do not get their deposit back, so just pick a closing date. Whatever they choose, to put it in writing in email, and for them to give me 7 days notice for closing in August, or cancelation.

So far I have not heard anything back from them, except 1. they want to close on Thursday afternoon , and 2. they want to cancel...in that order. Thursday rolls around and they are a no show, and I assume they are canceled.

Then friday the police show up!!! I tell them the same thing thing, they close or they lose the deposit...simple. Ok fine, no problem.

Then today I get a call from another police officer, and then a "Lawyer", I tell them the same thing, pick a closing date or lose your deposit!

I thought it would be simple, they pick a closing date, and show up with the money, and I provide my chanote, and the clear of debit letter.

Anyone else have a situation like this? Any advice?

Sorry for all the typos!

[wasaskater]

forgot to mention...the contract that says 1.2 million, was canceled...the night they stayed in the condo. When the girlfriend first signed it, she used a different signature. Warning Bell...I told her she had to sign the same as she signed the contract...she was not happy, but she did.

[jcon]

After reading your story (next time use more paragraphs, please), you sound like a super nice guy or a bit naive, perhaps both. I'm sure somebody will respond asking why you let them stay in the condo, etc. - but that's already passed and it's not issue now.

So to the point: if you have the signed contracts and they don't want to close - they don't get the deposit back, period. That's what the deposit was meant for.

Tell them to <deleted> off if they are not going to close and still want the deposit back. Not closing is not a problem, it can happen for any reason, but they are not entitled to the deposit. If they are too thick to understand that, just use their deposit money on police/lawyers to stuff these people back into the hole from which they crawled. Or you can be a ''nice guy'' and give back half and call it a day.

Next time go with your gut right from the beginning.

p.s. If you have the chanote - there should be no need to wait 7 days for any letter indicating that there aren't any debts on the condo (as you have the chanote). Further, that's really part of their due diligence, not yours. I'm not a contract lawyer so somebody please correct me if I'm wrong there.

[jackdawson]

<deleted> ?

cops involved ? twice ?

note to self ; continue to RENT

[HampiK]

That sounds horrible. Most person think this can never happen to them. But because this happen sometimes, there have to be people with this "unlucky"

I think, if they have good reason for not to close, or you agreed to give back the deposit.. then it is something. But if nothing of this happen, then i see no reason for give them back the money.

You already have to pay, because a tenant.. and also for the paperwork.. the deposit is what you need to do your work...

Else everybody can let you start work for nothing.. you also have expenses...

I want to know what other people think...

I wish you look.. and waiting to hear more.

[wasaskater]

That is what I was always told...if you agree to buy something you put a deposit down, so the "owner" can not sell it to someone else. If you did not buy it...you lost the deposit. The sad thing is I am in the hole 400,000 baht because I was expecting them to buy the condo, and put money down to buy another condo!

According to the condos bylaws, in order to transfer, you must have a clear of debit letter, or you can not transfer.

I am a female person, and do not want a confortation, and I hate limbo. I feel I have been very fair, and they are trying to scam me. Everytime the cops call, they make it seems like I don't want to close. Which couldn't be father from the truth! At this point, I figure I should just send them the same email that I sent them before.

1. They notify me 7 days before they want to close by email(closing must be within August).

2. They lose the deposit in full.

Sound fair?

[Slip]

It seems to me that you should get that letter sent by a solicitor.

Of course that means you have to tread that minefield too- and you may just end up worse off.

[PattayaParent]

After reading your story (next time use more paragraphs, please), you sound like a super nice guy or a bit naive, perhaps both. I'm sure somebody will respond asking why you let them stay in the condo, etc. - but that's already passed and it's not issue now.

So to the point: if you have the signed contracts and they don't want to close - they don't get the deposit back, period. That's what the deposit was meant for.

Tell them to <deleted> off if they are not going to close and still want the deposit back. Not closing is not a problem, it can happen for any reason, but they are not entitled to the deposit. If they are too thick to understand that, just use their deposit money on police/lawyers to stuff these people back into the hole from which they crawled. Or you can be a ''nice guy'' and give back half and call it a day.

Next time go with your gut right from the beginning.

p.s. If you have the chanote - there should be no need to wait 7 days for any letter indicating that there aren't any debts on the condo (as you have the chanote). Further, that's really part of their due diligence, not yours. I'm not a contract lawyer so somebody please correct me if I'm wrong there.

Yes you're wrong.

The seller needs the 'free of debt', why would someone buy a condo that has outstanding debts against it?

[taninthai]

how much deposit are we talking about

[dave111223]

Keep the deposit end of story. Maybe after they lose 2 or 3 more deposits they will figure how the real estate market works.

Letting them stay there for a night was a bit stupid...you're lucky you were able to get them out without much problem.

P.S. Not sure why you need 7 days for a debt free notice? The condo office should be able to print one of these off within a few minutes no?

[jcon]

p.s. If you have the chanote - there should be no need to wait 7 days for any letter indicating that there aren't any debts on the condo (as you have the chanote). Further, that's really part of their due diligence, not yours. I'm not a contract lawyer so somebody please correct me if I'm wrong there.

Yes you're wrong.

The seller needs the 'free of debt', why would someone buy a condo that has outstanding debts against it?

PP, if the OP has the chanote, then aren't we to assume there are no debts against the condo? That's what I was referring to.

[moe666]

I would not meet these people at my condo again only in Public witha few of my friends present.

[powderpuff]

As usual a few scamsters who think they are smarter than everyone else & the world owes them a living.

Glad you kept your wits about you.

Agree with above poster. Meet them off site in future.

[cmone123]

p.s. If you have the chanote - there should be no need to wait 7 days for any letter indicating that there aren't any debts on the condo (as you have the chanote). Further, that's really part of their due diligence, not yours. I'm not a contract lawyer so somebody please correct me if I'm wrong there.

Yes you're wrong.

The seller needs the 'free of debt', why would someone buy a condo that has outstanding debts against it?

PP, if the OP has the chanote, then aren't we to assume there are no debts against the condo? That's what I was referring to.

Not entirely true...,

Having the chanote "free of debt" is not enough. To transfer a condo one always needs a letter from the building saying that all condo fees are paid up. That is the letter the OP is referring to. And no, it should not take 7 days. Any "good organized" condo should be able to provide you with such letter almost instantly. If of course all fees are paid up to date...

[PattayaParent]

p.s. If you have the chanote - there should be no need to wait 7 days for any letter indicating that there aren't any debts on the condo (as you have the chanote). Further, that's really part of their due diligence, not yours. I'm not a contract lawyer so somebody please correct me if I'm wrong there.

Yes you're wrong.

The seller needs the 'free of debt', why would someone buy a condo that has outstanding debts against it?

PP, if the OP has the chanote, then aren't we to assume there are no debts against the condo? That's what I was referring to.

What if they haven't paid their maintenance fees? or utility bills? The free of debt is not related to mortgages.

[PattayaParent]

As usual a few scamsters who think they are smarter than everyone else & the world owes them a living.

Glad you kept your wits about you.

Agree with above poster. Meet them off site in future.

And maybe take along a smartly dressed Thai gentleman that can claim to be your lawyer.

[wasaskater]

yes the condo had the letter done the same day I asked for it...but refused to give it to us...because the bylaws say it takes 7 days. Similar to a budget surplus I guess? The building manager is only here two days a week....so maybe that is part of it. HOA must be paid one year in advance, and due to privacy rules, it doesn't always do that much good...if the owner is not being honest. We once bought a condo that owed a years worth of HOA the next day...the owner told us that they had paid a year in advance...lol!

So far I have not heard back from them...but who knows, what they are going to do next. Thanks everyone!

[Lumumba]

If any cop calls you again, just tell him you have made a statement to the cops at the Dusit cop shop, and give them your lawyers number to call. If you need one, just ask.

Like someone else said, if giving the deposit is much of a hassle, its not a bad idea.

I have sold about 5 cars since I came to town, I just sign a couple of papers for the buyer at the place I am picking up the new one, drive off with the new one , leaving the old one behind. Never had a any problem.

[hhgz]

I read your post several times, and I do not know why you thought you sold your condo.

[taninthai]

I read your post several times, and I do not know why you thought you sold your condo.

umm if someone gave me a deposit and signed a contract for something i was selling i would have pretty much consider it sold ....yes or no

[stgrhe]

I read your post several times, and I do not know why you thought you sold your condo.

umm if someone gave me a deposit and signed a contract for something i was selling i would have pretty much consider it sold ....yes or no

I suppose so, but to be sure one must know whether there are any other clauses that affect to contract and in particular if there is an escape clause and also if the contract has an EDC (effective date of contract) clause. Even if money changed hands to contract may not necessarily be in force.

[taninthai]

I read your post several times, and I do not know why you thought you sold your condo.

umm if someone gave me a deposit and signed a contract for something i was selling i would have pretty much consider it sold ....yes or no

I suppose so, but to be sure one must know whether there are any other clauses that affect to contract and in particular if there is an escape clause and also if the contract has an EDC (effective date of contract) clause. Even if money changed hands to contract may not necessarily be in force.

yes a sale is never final until all monies is paid a deposit is supposed to show you are a serious buyer and the propertyy would be taken off the market once deposit payed , however some people do play silly buggers and mess people around ,you cannot expect your deposit back if you just pull out as you have wasted the sellers time and he may have missed other potential buyers had he not taken the property off the market...

[brewsterbudgen]

I find it astonishing that you would try to sell property without using a solicitor/lawyer! Would you do this in your home country?

[frenchfarangjomtien]

Who still wants to make any contract with Thai when we know that any contract can be broken by any judge ?!

If they want to buy they just go with you to the land department and sign papers there, i don't understand why doing any other way, but would like to be taught what i don't know.

thanks.

[frenchfarangjomtien]

I find it astonishing that you would try to sell property without using a solicitor/lawyer! Would you do this in your home country?

I wouldn't do it in my own country because it's not possible, but as one's just need to go to the land department to transfer property in Thailand I i wonder why paying a cheater lawyer for a cheap property a 1.2 MB ?!

[PattayaParent]

^In UK you can do it yourself, and it will be quicker than if a solicitor does it, but it's time consuming and you really have to understand what you're doing.

[dave111223]

I find it astonishing that you would try to sell property without using a solicitor/lawyer! Would you do this in your home country?

I wouldn't do it in my own country because it's not possible, but as one's just need to go to the land department to transfer property in Thailand I i wonder why paying a cheater lawyer for a cheap property a 1.2 MB ?!

Agreed, why pay a lawyer for something you can easily do yourself?

Different countries have different real estate laws and regulations; what you would do in your home country is irrelevant to Thailand.

[equinox]

For honest people, buying and/or selling a condo is actually (relatively) easy. A lawyer can do no more (or less) than anyone who understand the basics of the process. It just nice, and sensible in most cases, to have someone trusted and who is Thai and Thai/English speaking (or whatever your native language might be) to accompany you through the whole process - and especially at the land office.

The so-called "debt letter" is nothing to do with the Chanot, or loans on the property. The 7 days point is with regards to its "validity".

Some Condo Juristic's might take a week to prepare it, others can do it straight away. The letter simply states if there are any outstanding debts, utility bills, annual maintenance etc., or not. Even WITH massive debts you can still sell or buy a condo. But this point has to be acknowledged (and usually settled) at the Juristic office or Land Office on or before transfer day. If the letter is out of date - and this applies to the 2nd letter pertaining to Thai/foreigner ratios (that the juristic must also supply) - then the land office will simply send you away to get a new one. Or, request an under the table donation (not advisable) 555.

The condo is only truly sold when all the fees and taxes are paid and the buyers name is on the Chanot. It goes without saying that if there is a bank loan on the property it cannot be legally sold until the loan is paid. Again, this is something that is generally handled at the land office, as typically a seller cannot pay-off their loan until after receiving the buyers cheque. In reality, however, it is all done at the same time and (during THIS danger time) no lawyer in the world is going to be able to help you, as ultimately it all has to be done on trust of the officer(s) at the land office.

Any buying/ selling contract (which can be in any language) simply states the terms. What those terms are, are entirely up to the buyer and seller and/or agent or broker. It can be as fancy or as simple as you want. There is no law, as such, that states what the timeframe or size of deposit etc. must be, or that you even need such a contract . Hence the reason why you do not "need" a lawyer - but you do need common sense and honest Land Office officers.

[stgrhe]

Well, if a condo purchase is made off plan than it is IMO highly recommended to hire a lawyer for the due diligence of the building company.

[HampiK]

Well, if a condo purchase is made off plan than it is IMO highly recommended to hire a lawyer for the due diligence of the building company.

Even when it is a big company like CBRE or Pruksa?

The only 2 very big building companies i know.

Edited August 12, 2010 by HampiK