Appeal Pending, Uk Finacee Settlement Visa

[norrona]

in short,

applied for UK settlement fiancee visa Feb 2010

Refused mid March 2010

Appealed 5th April 2010 and have sent further proof of relationship with appeal to Embassy

Recieved letter from Tribunals Service saying will write to me after 26th July 2010

That was last week and I just called the Tribunals Service and spoke to a helpful chap who informed me a letter has been sent to Thailand last week (I am not on the list as sponsor or representative) he couldn't tell me anything else other than letter has been sent to visa company that is marked as my representative, fair enough.

My gut feeling is this is a knock back and they want to take it to full appeal as if they were to overturn the decision with the ECO in Bangkok they would have just called my fiancee and said so?

Anyone else had experience with this?

There was 2 problems with our original application on the phone call from embassy my fiancee recieved, 1, she couldn't explain what my daily duties are for my job 2, was asked when we first met, she answered in person as opposed to our first point of contact (through an internet dating site)

Thanks

[bangkockney]

Sometimes it's much better for your appeal to be heard before an Immigration Judge in the UK - they have a habit of putting ECOs in their place! They do often seem to have a greater grasp of common sense.

Good luck with the appeal - hope it works out for you.

[7by7]

If the refusal is overturned in post then your fiance, or her representative, will be informed by the embassy. If not then she, or her representative, will be informed of the hearing date.

There's a lot of waiting involved, I'm afraid, and one can only counsel patience.

Good luck.

[norrona]

appreciate the good luck gestures,

would still be interested if anyone has gone through a similar experience as ourselves and how it went for them with regards to when their 4 months of waiting turned out?

I am preparing myself for a knock back as I kind of thought that if they overturned their decision then they would have contacted my fiance by telelphone and a letter coming from Tribunals Service is to inform us that it will go to hearing in U.K?

To be fair all this waiting has not done me any favours mentally and I kind of wish in hindsight that I just let a couple of months pass and re-applied, family, friends and work colleagues that ask me about this are shocked and appalled that a tax paying person like myself with solid full time employment, savings in the bank and a property owner has to wait and has no way of checking progress or even know where we are at!

Especially with the amount of assylum seekers we have that get fast tracked into the system that have nothing to offer this country!

I will let you all know the outcome of the 4 month letter as and when I hear myself.

Cheers

[seaneee]

appreciate the good luck gestures,

would still be interested if anyone has gone through a similar experience as ourselves and how it went for them with regards to when their 4 months of waiting turned out?

I am preparing myself for a knock back as I kind of thought that if they overturned their decision then they would have contacted my fiance by telelphone and a letter coming from Tribunals Service is to inform us that it will go to hearing in U.K?

To be fair all this waiting has not done me any favours mentally and I kind of wish in hindsight that I just let a couple of months pass and re-applied, family, friends and work colleagues that ask me about this are shocked and appalled that a tax paying person like myself with solid full time employment, savings in the bank and a property owner has to wait and has no way of checking progress or even know where we are at!

Especially with the amount of assylum seekers we have that get fast tracked into the system that have nothing to offer this country!

I will let you all know the outcome of the 4 month letter as and when I hear myself.

Cheers

Although certain posters on these threads offer good advice to people in your predicament, some always seem to be sticking up for the ECOs and blab on about how much pressure the ECOs are under blah blah blah! Well my take is that the Embassy charges a <deleted> fortune for applications and should show the applicants respect by allowing the appropriate time to look at applications.

Im sure that some applications deserve knocking back immediately, but im also sure that some are only a minor point or two away from being granted and we are all not gifted like certain posters to be able to submit perfect applications then i wonder if there could be another option like being able to pay a small fee to get an appeal looked at quickly if say its only 1 or 2 documents need to be re-submitted. This im sure would alleviate bad feeling etc that having to wait a year or more makes applicants feel toward the embassy staff..

[stament]

appreciate the good luck gestures,

would still be interested if anyone has gone through a similar experience as ourselves and how it went for them with regards to when their 4 months of waiting turned out?

I am preparing myself for a knock back as I kind of thought that if they overturned their decision then they would have contacted my fiance by telelphone and a letter coming from Tribunals Service is to inform us that it will go to hearing in U.K?

To be fair all this waiting has not done me any favours mentally and I kind of wish in hindsight that I just let a couple of months pass and re-applied, family, friends and work colleagues that ask me about this are shocked and appalled that a tax paying person like myself with solid full time employment, savings in the bank and a property owner has to wait and has no way of checking progress or even know where we are at!

Especially with the amount of assylum seekers we have that get fast tracked into the system that have nothing to offer this country!

I will let you all know the outcome of the 4 month letter as and when I hear myself.

Cheers

Hi Norrona,

Sorry to hear all the problems you've had it must be very, very stressful for you. I can't offer any help or pearls of wisdom on appeals I'm afraid. All I've read on these forums is that people tend to recommend waiting and then re-submitting a new application which addresses the reasons why they refused the original application. I think the reason being not because they can't win the appeal, but more to do with the fact that appeals take a lot longer than re-applying.

As I said this isn't first hand experience just what I've read consistently from other forum members who know more about such things than me.

Good luck and do come back and tell us what happens. We'll all be keeping our fingers crossed for you.

[norrona]

Ok the 4 month letter has arrived and guess what???? they have decided I send further evidence to them by 21st September and then......well there is no commitment from them as far as I know of yet.

so to summarise the 16 weeks was waited out along with further evidence of relationship shown, skype history, msn, western union transfers etc and well you wait and then get this to wait a further 6/7 weeks and still then there is no commitment saying with this we will then decide your fate!

I am finding it very difficult at the moment to feel sorry for anyones work load or back log of paperwork so please lets not hear anymore of how they have a difficult job!

I am waiting for a scan of the letter and if I think there is anything in there worth showing on here will post it up.

My advice to anyone who gets a refusal is absolutely do not appeal, simply walk away for a couple of months and re-apply, unless you want to waste a year+ of your life.

I cannot even focus on work at the moment it has messed with my mind that much!

[norrona]

ok so here is what it has taken 4 months + to recieve, upon reading this it appears that the ECO in BKK hasn't even sent the original application nor any further supported evidence to the Tribunal Service in the U.K so they require the whole lot to be sent to them by 21st September, something I did read another poster off of here experienced.

These people can get away with this as they are faceless and you cannot contact them direct to bring what they have or have not done to question, really what was so difficult for the ECO in BKK to forward the documents they were asked for?

[stament]

Awful service. Feel really bad for you. Isn't there some sort of standard they must adhere to or are they still within their long timeframes?

Edited August 4, 2010 by 7by7
Unnecessary full quote of preceding post, including copy documents, deleted.

[norrona]

From what I know they do not have to adhere to anything or anyone, I mean the Tribunal Service has requested this paper work by official letter off of them and they haven't bothered one bit, this is the same embassy and people who when my fiancee emailed them only last month to try to chase them up she was told 'we have 16 weeks and intend to take the full 16 weeks' you must wait!

The only thing that has settled me is the fact that Tribunals have confirmed once they have recieved the paper work they aim to get back to us within 2 weeks of 21st september, the fact that they are in the U.K gives me some hope that the right thing will be done.

but after that decision....who knows what hoops we'll be jumping through next?

Note to anyone with refusal, my experience and all this hold up seems to be pretty standard!

It gets me questioning: did the person who interviewed my fiancee not like her and is making this some kind of vindication? if that is a ludicrous thought then please someone with the info on how these ECO's work with their excessive backlog of paperwork and extreme amount of pressure they are under shine some kind of light as to why all this is happening?

I'm big enough and ugly enough to be told no, so if it is a no then lets deal with it, why stall, delay and not do what has been requested?

Cheers

[bangkockney]

Sorry to hear more drama in the nightmare you face. However, there will be a record of who has dealt with your application and who has/has not carried out their duties correctly.

Once you have your case settled I would strongly suggest raising this as a formal complaint. You can complain to the Embassy and the UKBA directly. They are required to process any complaint within strict time frames and hopefully provide you with an adequate reply.

Something to consider for the future.

Edited August 4, 2010 by 7by7
Did it above, so may as well do it here too; unnecessary full quote of preceding post deleted

[norrona]

the complaints thing is something defienetly on my list of things to do, I would imagine that many people who have been ill treated like ourselves when they do finally get their visa are so elated that they don't bother.

One thing that does stick out with regards to what you have said is about how once my case has been settled to then complain, those who know about Thailand and the way it works over there know you do not question with these people who have something you want or make a complaint as they have the power to not give you what you're originally entitled to be it a thai or farang!

that is my feeling with regards to us appealing and questioning their decision:angry:

[7by7]

As has repeatedly been said to you, without knowing what the refusal notice actually said, any comment on the reasons for the refusal would be pure conjecture and worthless. You have chosen to not post the contents of the refusal notice; which is your right.

Having said that, the fact that the embassy have yet to overturn the refusal or return the file to the Tribunals Service is inexcusable. They have a maximum time in which to do one or the other, and as that deadline has passed they should have done so. By all means make a complaint if you so wish, see How to make a complaint. Do not be put of by any thoughts you may have about "Thailand and the way it works over there." Remember that it is a UK government department and it's officials you are dealing with and one would hope that any concerns you may have in this area are groundless.

The letters she has had from the Tribunals Service are fairly self explanatory. Basically she should send any further evidence she may wish directly to the Tribunals Service, to reach them by the 21st September. I believe that this is standard procedure when a refusal has not been overturned in post and the file returned to the Tribunals Service and the appellant has requested the decision be made on the papers alone without a hearing. As the embassy have failed to return the file by the due date, they have been given until two days before this date to do so; otherwise the appeal will be decided on the evidence submitted by your fiance alone. The file has not been returned by the embassy and any new evidence she submitted with the appeal will be in that file, so she should submit that new evidence again to the Tribunals Service.

That is my understanding of the situation; but I am by no means an expert in appeals. So I stand to be corrected by someone who is.

[norrona]

this topic is really about my experience since the visa was refused to warn anyone else about the pitfalls of appealing against the ECO's decision and just how bad a service they give once you have paid your money, because there has been some sly but well deserved digs at them from me the defenders will always come out.....regardless of the original refusal which by the way is in Thailand with my visa agent but I have read it myself and it is the 2 points I have mentioned above, if it was about anything else surely I would have written that when asking for advice before?

From trawling the posts on here I can recall 2 other posters who have been waiting their 16 weeks and both of them were let down by the ECO from not forwarding the documents when asked by the Tribunal Service, it seems that although they are part of the U.K government when questioned by other departments and asked to produce documents they do not want to play ball and certainly do not fear any reprisals or discipline actions, if they did then surely they would have forwarded the documents?

I appreciate all advice offered and messages of support, the comment about how people in power work in Thailand is based on 10 years of living there with 6 years of that working with a work permit and dealing with both thai and farang and their approach to doing their job when in positions of power, people who have worked out there will have experienced these frustrations which is part of the reason I do not work there anymore.

Back on topic, I have already written a complaint by email and so has my fiancee, maybe it was the wrong thing to do at this stage but when you have been wating for someone to do what they have been asked to do by one of their own and they blatantly disregard that request frustration and anger both take over, I have had a reply from the embassy already......yes I was quite impressed also when I first see the email?

Sadly it was to inform me that they have recieved the email and look to get back to me within 20 working days:whistling:

[norrona]

Further update,

My email has got through, however my fiancees email was returned as they have blocked her:angry:

This is after she emailed them in July asking about progress, a Thai lady called her and said about how they were going to use the full 16 weeks they have, she also said that if her contact details change then to email them.

Anyways I am flying out next week for the 4th time this year I might add!

I still can't quite grasp what their problem is:whistling:

[norrona]

Further update for those who are interested, I sent a complaint to the embassy on 4th August explaining how we had waited for them to send the paperwork to Tribunals Service and feel let down and was greeted with this whilst in Thailand,

Dear Mr Numbnuts Thank you for your e-mail of 04 August 2010. We are sorry to hear that you have been dissatisfied with the appeal process.

However an appeal for the above named still on the the list waiting to be reviewed by an Entry Clearance Manager. Please note that we are operate the appeal system on first come first served basis, unfortunately from time to time we do experience exceptionally busy periods. It is at these times we may take a little bit longer than time frame to review the appeal.

Once appeal has been reviewed, should the decision to refuse her visa subsequently be overturned she will be notified as soon as possible. However, should the decision stand then all the documentation with the Entry Clearance Officer's Explanatory Statement will be sent to the Hearing Centre where an appeal has been scheduled to be heard before 21 September 2010.

We hope this clarifies the position.

Yours sincerely,

they really are a bunch of charlatans there, first come first served? A certain poster on here submitted his appeal after me and through the same agency and has had his answer:angry:

I feel now I have enough to make an official complaint and intend to do so!

watch this space

Edited August 31, 2010 by norrona

[seaneee]

Further update for those who are interested, I sent a complaint to the embassy on 4th August explaining how we had waited for them to send the paperwork to Tribunals Service and feel let down and was greeted with this whilst in Thailand,

Dear Mr Numbnuts Thank you for your e-mail of 04 August 2010. We are sorry to hear that you have been dissatisfied with the appeal process.

However an appeal for the above named still on the the list waiting to be reviewed by an Entry Clearance Manager. Please note that we are operate the appeal system on first come first served basis, unfortunately from time to time we do experience exceptionally busy periods. It is at these times we may take a little bit longer than time frame to review the appeal.

Once appeal has been reviewed, should the decision to refuse her visa subsequently be overturned she will be notified as soon as possible. However, should the decision stand then all the documentation with the Entry Clearance Officer's Explanatory Statement will be sent to the Hearing Centre where an appeal has been scheduled to be heard before 21 September 2010.

We hope this clarifies the position.

Yours sincerely,

they really are a bunch of charlatans there, first come first served? A certain poster on here submitted his appeal after me and through the same agency and has had his answer:angry:

I feel now I have enough to make an official complaint and intend to do so!

watch this space

I really hope that you take it all the way. They treated my wife and myself abysmally....and eventually issued the visa 3 days before the tribunal hearing, and they didnt even bother replying to the tribunal just as in your case.

I feel sure that you will get your visa on appeal, but the wait is hel l