Al Qaeda To Blame For London's Explosions?

[Neeranam]

Nice post Bkkmadness!

I agree 100% with you

[chonabot]

No doubt they will be relevant in a few weeks time when they have gathered the appropriate evidence.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My fears as well mate.....

[haha]

have you studied the war tactics presented by sun tzu?

http://www.sonshi.com/

what you are entailing is a perfect example of his philosophy.

"use confusion as a weapon in war."

granted, there is always a possibility that the media is controlled by the government to be used as propaganda. but in this case, I do not believe this is the case.

remember, the media including the internet who is presenting this information is in the middle east. home of the terrorist.

this is also why "we do know" where the terrorist are. the fact that the media in the middle east are telling us this.

so, do you really want us to believe that we control the media in the middle east?

let me remind you, the media in the middle east is part of the problem. they are spreading around hate to all the people over there. and as a result, they are coming at us.

also, you really have to be dense to believe that the people in iraq who are killing americans and even iraqis are people from within.

no, it is time to bring this conflict to them. they have declared war on us. now, it is time to reply in return.

these attacks have been going on for decades. check this website out.

http://www.almidfarah.fanspace.com/islamic_terr_even.htm

last but not least, I'm getting tired of people putting the blame on bystanders. the blame should be placed on the people who are pulling the triggers. namely the terrorists.

this "bush and blair should have known" BS is just that.

I'm pretty convinced that there is no conspiracy occuring here.

bring it on.

[britmaveric]

Bkk - believe you are on smth - completely mental if you think this is about oil and we attacked ourselves for an invasion. This is as plausible as pigs flying. Plain and simple these muslim fundamentalists hate the western world and all those in it. Stop trying to make more than what it is!!!

[dereklev]

Bkk - believe you are on smth - completely mental if you think this is about oil and we attacked ourselves for an invasion. This is as plausible as pigs flying.  Plain and simple these muslim fundamentalists hate the western world  and all those in it. Stop trying to make more than what it is!!!

Completely agree with you Brit.

When the facts are out they will show that this was an attack on our values and way of life.

I personally do not agree with the British government's stance on Iraq and now we have suffered the consequence for their actions.

One thing is for sure and that is that London and Londoners will be going about their daily business as near to normal as is possible today.

The British people have suffered many bombings before yesterday and have always shown that no matter how horrific the attacks may be we will not be terrrorised by the terrorists!!

[Neeranam]

Bkk - believe you are on smth - completely mental if you think this is about oil and we attacked ourselves for an invasion.

I am not on anything and I believe it ALL about oil.

Did we attack ourselves?. Maybe not but it is possible.

[britmaveric]

Neeranam - believe what you want mate, but normal thinking people dont work conspiracies, alterior motives, and the impossible into every animalistic action of these bloody fanatical nutters. It is what it is - a bombing caused by nutters. If we did this for oil I for one want to know why we aren't benefiting from it one satang!!! Oil should be flowing cheaper than evernot at record highs least for UK and Yanks!

Edited July 8, 2005 by britmaveric

[kreon]

for every 1,000 muslims killed only one non-muslim dies, that's why they have so many volunteers that lost complete families and are looking for revenge

and yes oil got's a lot to do with that, in iraq first russia, then france, china and now the yanks have a go at it, the stirring-up in iran about nuclear weapons is all about finding a reason to atack them and their oil

and yet, its okay for the g8 group to have their nuclear arsenal, it doesn't make sense to me

what most of the people seem to forget, that we all have ben at war since civilisation started, the war on terrorism is just an old one being going on for a thousands of years, so yes there is more to come

[bkkmadness]

Ok, just in the middle of some work now so cant reply much at the moment but will get back later.

Im not saying the government plants the bombs but you all should at least be aware that the USA government has benefitted from the 9/11 situation as they will benefit from this if only from support of their people. It hasn't hurt them in anyway that these attacks have happened and it would not shock me to find out they had prior knowledge but let the attcks continue. Why wouldn't they? Because of the dead individuals involved? not a chance.

Can you not see the convenience of these bombings? Does not that seem suspect to any of you?

[The_Eye_Of_Sauron]

The Gentleman Scamp arrived in London the night before the bombings.

[TokyoT]

Ok, just in the middle of some work now so cant reply much at the moment but will get back later.

Im not saying the government plants the bombs but you all should at least be aware that the USA government has benefitted from the 9/11 situation as they will benefit from this if only from support of their people.  It hasn't hurt them in anyway that these attacks have happened and it would not shock me to find out they had prior knowledge but let the attcks continue.  Why wouldn't they? Because of the dead individuals involved? not a chance.

Can you not see the convenience of these bombings?  Does not that seem suspect to any of you?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes I will concede the point that the US government received a benefit in the form of support. But I doubt government conspiracy. Why hit the Pentagon? Why go thru all of this to first deploy in Afghanistan, and then move on to Iraq. Why allow all of the attacks to continue. Certainly they would have gotten just about equal mileage out of a single plane.

Certainly they could have found a much more direct approach.

I do find many things suspect – the high level of Saudi participation, the high level of contact between G.W. and the Saudi’s. I do not see any convenience in the bombings – again much easier to stage something directly tied to Iraq, then to go thru all we have been thru in Afghanistan.

[haha]

for every 1,000 muslims killed only one non-muslim dies, that's why they have so many volunteers that lost complete families and are looking for revenge

and yes oil got's a lot to do with that, in iraq first russia, then france, china and now the yanks have a go at it, the stirring-up in iran about nuclear weapons is all about finding a reason to atack them and their oil

and yet, its okay for the g8 group to have their nuclear arsenal, it doesn't make sense to me

what most of the people seem to forget, that we all have ben at war since civilisation started, the war on terrorism is just an old one being going on for a thousands of years, so yes there is more to come

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

the reason why the western world has the nuclear bomb is because of something called ww2.

if you recall, there was an evil of great immensity who was trying to conquer the world at the time. nazi germany and samuri japan. they were working on the atom bomb then. so, we were forced to do the same.

thank god, we discovered it before they did.

check out these websites...

http://www.dannen.com/decision/index.html

http://centurychina.com/wiihist/njmassac/n...o.htm#njm_index

and as to your remark that "it is all about oil". well, let me remind you, since we invented the atom bomb, and were the only ones to have it for 3 years, we could have conquered the world. ...conquering the world would have meant that we would have control over ALL the oil wells, right?

but as history shows, we didn't go this route. why, you ask? simple, we didn't want to take anything that is not ours.

there are so many instances of this policy in the last century, it is mind boggling to me that so many people don't realize this.

kuwait, the philippines, okinawa, even japan, and germany. and let's not forget france. the list goes on.... all these places could have been part of america.

on your argument that survivors of previous conflicts are just trying to get revenge... the survivors are there because we didn't kill them.

what do you think the communist of the past would have done? or for that matter, the nazis, or the ww2 japanese?

remember nanjing, the concentration camps, or how about tianmen square?

maybe we SHOULD have killed them instead of letting them come back at us like this.

maybe america is TOO weak like they say. this shock and awe stuff doesn't make sense sometimes.

maybe america is too naive.

[camerata]

Friedman has a good column about all this in the New York Times today. Here's a snippet:

... But when Al-Qaeda-like bombings come to the London Underground, that becomes a civilizational problem. Every Muslim living in a Western society suddenly becomes a suspect, becomes a potential walking bomb. And when that happens, it means Western countries are going to be tempted to crack down even harder on their own Muslim populations.

That, too, is deeply troubling. The more Western societies - particularly the big European societies, which have much larger Muslim populations than America - look on their own Muslims with suspicion, the more internal tensions this creates, and the more alienated their already alienated Muslim youth become. This is exactly what Osama bin Laden dreamed of with 9/11: to create a great gulf between the Muslim world and the globalizing West.

So this is a critical moment. We must do all we can to limit the civilizational fallout from this bombing. But this is not going to be easy. Why? Because unlike after 9/11, there is no obvious, easy target to retaliate against for bombings like those in London. There are no obvious terrorist headquarters and training camps in Afghanistan that we can hit with cruise missiles. The Al Qaeda threat has metastasized and become franchised. It is no longer vertical, something that we can punch in the face. It is now horizontal, flat and widely distributed, operating through the Internet and tiny cells.

Because there is no obvious target to retaliate against, and because there are not enough police to police every opening in an open society, either the Muslim world begins to really restrain, inhibit and denounce its own extremists - if it turns out that they are behind the London bombings - or the West is going to do it for them. And the West will do it in a rough, crude way - by simply shutting them out, denying them visas and making every Muslim in its midst guilty until proven innocent.

And because I think that would be a disaster, it is essential that the Muslim world wake up to the fact that it has a jihadist death cult in its midst. If it does not fight that death cult, that cancer, within its own body politic, it is going to infect Muslim-Western relations everywhere. Only the Muslim world can root out that death cult.

[snip]

From "If It's a Muslim Problem, It Needs a Muslim Solution":

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/08/opinion/08friedman.html?hp

(Free registration required)

[TokyoT]

for every 1,000 muslims killed only one non-muslim dies, that's why they have so many volunteers that lost complete families and are looking for revenge

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Would be interesting in seeing where these numbers come from, and they certainly do not paint a clear picture of what is happening. This is not the west vs the Muslims. There are many Muslims who have lost their lives as the results of the violence surrounding this issue that are not terrorists, or on the terrorists side. Thousands died in 9/11 in one day – therefore there should be millions of Muslims?

and yes oil got's a lot to do with that, in iraq first russia, then france, china and now the yanks have a go at it, the stirring-up in iran about nuclear weapons is all about finding a reason to atack them and their oil

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Certainly one cannot separate oil what from what happens in the Middle East. But if oil were the only reason then why is the west bent out of shape over the nuclear issues in North Korea? They are not Muslims, and they don’t have any oil. The issues surrounding Iran are not all about oil.

and yet, its okay for the g8 group to have their nuclear arsenal, it doesn't make sense to me

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think that most people would agree the world would be a better place without nuclear weapons. Since that is not likely to happen in the short run, the best we can hope for is to try and limit the number of countries that have the ability to produce them, and work towards reducing the arsenals of those countries that do have them. Then work in the long run for elimination of their existence (nukes that is).

Sadly enough your are correct in your closing there is certainly more to come.

[chaiyapoon]

I know a forum such as this must reflect the whole spectrum of opinion, but we seem to have some seriously warped views flying around.

No wonder when in LOS you see ill mannered louts mouthing off in bars and clubs it seems some of them are here as well.Some people have realy shown themselves up in their true colours.

Personally I'm very disappointed.

[haha]

I know a forum such as this must reflect the whole spectrum of opinion, but we seem to have some seriously warped views flying around.

No wonder when in LOS you see ill mannered louts mouthing off in bars and clubs it seems some of them are here as well.Some people have realy shown themselves up in their true colours.

Personally I'm very disappointed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

being human is everybody's problem. I know how you feel. when people you know get murdered, let's see how you feel.

[sadman]

Thanks to all who sent messages. My mate wasn't as badly hurt as was at first believed, I took his missus to the hospital to see him, she went into labour and so the baby was born in hospital with dad present. All is well, thank God.

I've read this thread with interest and understand all the viewpoints (except the one where MI5 carried out the bombing), but would just offer for consideration the fact that in the hospital last night there were Muslim casualties, Muslim doctors and nurses, Muslim orderlies and Muslim visitors. No-one actually gave a flying one about their religion and their sense of solidarity was against terrorists, not Islam or Muslims or the Western world.

The Muslims' biggest fear was that they were going to have a rough time from the media/public just because of their religion. The non-Muslims' biggest fear was that the BNP etc were going to capitalise on this and cause problems for the Muslims. Everyones' concerns were for other humans, not national or governmental issues.

The message was clear: condemn the criminals (lets call them what they are) but not the groups from which they come - and which they don't represent. Let the law do its job and lets work together as a community.

Interestingly, the issue of Iraq didn't really come into it to any great extent. Some agreed with the war, some disagreed, but all condemned the bombings (incl. NY, Bali, Madrid etc). Its a start.

And by the way, IMHO the conspiracy theories don't hold water for a number of reasons, the main one being that I don't believe that everyone involved in such such a venture would keep their mouths shut. Someone, somewhere would get angry, disillusioned, drunk, bribed or whatever, and it would all come out.

Thanks again.

[WhiteShiva]

Thanks to all who sent messages. My mate wasn't as badly hurt as was at first believed, I took his missus to the hospital to see him, she went into labour and so the baby was born in hospital with dad present. All is well, thank God.

I've read this thread with interest and understand all the viewpoints (except the one where MI5 carried out the bombing), but would just offer for consideration the fact that in the hospital last night there were Muslim casualties, Muslim doctors and nurses, Muslim orderlies and Muslim visitors. No-one actually gave a flying one about their religion and their sense of solidarity was against terrorists, not Islam or Muslims or the Western world.

The Muslims' biggest fear was that they were going to have a rough time from the media/public just because of their religion. The non-Muslims' biggest fear was that the BNP etc were going to capitalise on this and cause problems for the Muslims. Everyones' concerns were for other humans, not national or governmental issues.

The message was clear: condemn the criminals (lets call them what they are) but not the groups from which they come - and which they don't represent. Let the law do its job and lets work together as a community.

Interestingly, the issue of Iraq didn't really come into it to any great extent. Some agreed with the war, some disagreed, but all condemned the bombings (incl. NY, Bali, Madrid etc). Its a start.

And by the way, IMHO the conspiracy theories don't hold water for a number of reasons, the main one being that I don't believe that everyone involved in such such a venture would keep their mouths shut. Someone, somewhere would get angry, disillusioned, drunk, bribed or whatever, and it would all come out.

Thanks again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said - Most sensible post in this thread, IMHO.

Good to hear that your friend & family is doing well.

[Thomas_Merton]

Thanks to all who sent messages. My mate wasn't as badly hurt as was at first believed, I took his missus to the hospital to see him, she went into labour and so the baby was born in hospital with dad present. All is well, thank God.

I've read this thread with interest and understand all the viewpoints (except the one where MI5 carried out the bombing), but would just offer for consideration the fact that in the hospital last night there were Muslim casualties, Muslim doctors and nurses, Muslim orderlies and Muslim visitors. No-one actually gave a flying one about their religion and their sense of solidarity was against terrorists, not Islam or Muslims or the Western world.

The Muslims' biggest fear was that they were going to have a rough time from the media/public just because of their religion. The non-Muslims' biggest fear was that the BNP etc were going to capitalise on this and cause problems for the Muslims. Everyones' concerns were for other humans, not national or governmental issues.

The message was clear: condemn the criminals (lets call them what they are) but not the groups from which they come - and which they don't represent. Let the law do its job and lets work together as a community.

Interestingly, the issue of Iraq didn't really come into it to any great extent. Some agreed with the war, some disagreed, but all condemned the bombings (incl. NY, Bali, Madrid etc). Its a start.

And by the way, IMHO the conspiracy theories don't hold water for a number of reasons, the main one being that I don't believe that everyone involved in such such a venture would keep their mouths shut. Someone, somewhere would get angry, disillusioned, drunk, bribed or whatever, and it would all come out.

Thanks again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said - Most sensible post in this thread, IMHO.

Good to hear that your friend & family is doing well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree.

[Harry2]

Thanks to all who sent messages. My mate wasn't as badly hurt as was at first believed, I took his missus to the hospital to see him, she went into labour and so the baby was born in hospital with dad present. All is well, thank God.

I've read this thread with interest and understand all the viewpoints (except the one where MI5 carried out the bombing), but would just offer for consideration the fact that in the hospital last night there were Muslim casualties, Muslim doctors and nurses, Muslim orderlies and Muslim visitors. No-one actually gave a flying one about their religion and their sense of solidarity was against terrorists, not Islam or Muslims or the Western world.

The Muslims' biggest fear was that they were going to have a rough time from the media/public just because of their religion. The non-Muslims' biggest fear was that the BNP etc were going to capitalise on this and cause problems for the Muslims. Everyones' concerns were for other humans, not national or governmental issues.

The message was clear: condemn the criminals (lets call them what they are) but not the groups from which they come - and which they don't represent. Let the law do its job and lets work together as a community.

Interestingly, the issue of Iraq didn't really come into it to any great extent. Some agreed with the war, some disagreed, but all condemned the bombings (incl. NY, Bali, Madrid etc). Its a start.

And by the way, IMHO the conspiracy theories don't hold water for a number of reasons, the main one being that I don't believe that everyone involved in such such a venture would keep their mouths shut. Someone, somewhere would get angry, disillusioned, drunk, bribed or whatever, and it would all come out.

Thanks again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

These are NOT just criminals they are specifically Muslim terrorists acting according to the basic tenets of their uniquely evil & horrific religion. The terrorists draw ideological direction from their evil faith & financial & logistical support from the wider Muslim community.

The non-Muslims greatest fear is that the BNP might capitalise on it - ridiculous. Non-Muslims - decent people from all the great religions of the world (excluding Islam by definition) - don't want their loved ones getting their legs blown off by these evil 7th century savages. The best way to ensure the BNP do not capitalise on it is to protect people from the Muslims & their evil repellent religion, instead of doing what the useless Labour bunch are doing & appeasing each monstrous demand that comes from them.

[Thomas_Merton]

Thanks to all who sent messages. My mate wasn't as badly hurt as was at first believed, I took his missus to the hospital to see him, she went into labour and so the baby was born in hospital with dad present. All is well, thank God.

I've read this thread with interest and understand all the viewpoints (except the one where MI5 carried out the bombing), but would just offer for consideration the fact that in the hospital last night there were Muslim casualties, Muslim doctors and nurses, Muslim orderlies and Muslim visitors. No-one actually gave a flying one about their religion and their sense of solidarity was against terrorists, not Islam or Muslims or the Western world.

The Muslims' biggest fear was that they were going to have a rough time from the media/public just because of their religion. The non-Muslims' biggest fear was that the BNP etc were going to capitalise on this and cause problems for the Muslims. Everyones' concerns were for other humans, not national or governmental issues.

The message was clear: condemn the criminals (lets call them what they are) but not the groups from which they come - and which they don't represent. Let the law do its job and lets work together as a community.

Interestingly, the issue of Iraq didn't really come into it to any great extent. Some agreed with the war, some disagreed, but all condemned the bombings (incl. NY, Bali, Madrid etc). Its a start.

And by the way, IMHO the conspiracy theories don't hold water for a number of reasons, the main one being that I don't believe that everyone involved in such such a venture would keep their mouths shut. Someone, somewhere would get angry, disillusioned, drunk, bribed or whatever, and it would all come out.

Thanks again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

These are NOT just criminals they are specifically Muslim terrorists acting according to the basic tenets of their uniquely evil & horrific religion. The terrorists draw ideological direction from their evil faith & financial & logistical support from the wider Muslim community.

The non-Muslims greatest fear is that the BNP might capitalise on it - ridiculous. Non-Muslims - decent people from all the great religions of the world (excluding Islam by definition) - don't want their loved ones getting their legs blown off by these evil 7th century savages. The best way to ensure the BNP do not capitalise on it is to protect people from the Muslims & their evil repellent religion, instead of doing what the useless Labour bunch are doing & appeasing each monstrous demand that comes from them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting rhetoric.

What practical acts would you advise the Labour government (indecently the Labour Government represents the consensus of both Houses of Parliament, at this time) to take?

[daleyboy]

now, as I see it, if we have absolute proof that the al qaeda are in iran.  then,  LET'S GET THEM!!!!

bring it on.

Just wondering haha where your gonna start to get them? The U.K the U.S.A Afagnistan etc etc They are all over the world my friend you will never kill them all this is just a silly notion that just isnt possible.

I feel as angry as the next person about what is happening to this world but you cannot kill every person you suspect of being Al queda. It just isnt possible.

Another solution needs to be found to the problem, and believe me i dont know the answer just like the next person wont, but i do know coming out with comments like that WILL do more harm than good. All this is doing is inciting(sic) racial hatred in this country against the majority of INNOCENT Muslims.

I agree something has to be done, but i am not sure what. If you kill 100 then there families, sons and daughters will take their place and this will never end.

[mtnthai]

Here is an excerpt you can read online from a great book on why SOME Muslims feel as they do, and then act as they did in London yesterday. It tends to put some perspective on the events:

Imperial Hubris: Why the West is Losing the War on Terror by MICHAEL SCHEUER

[Ijustwannateach]

At the risk of sounding unreasonable, you catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar. If we "westerners" acted like we gave a fig towards the countries which export the terrorists, helped develop them, and built infiltration networks of our own during the process, we'd have the intelligence necessary to take care of these small (and yes, they're small) groups of terrorists, plus the support of the local governments and population in doing so.

Massive retaliatory bombing and violence does nothing except create martyrs and kill massively high ratios of innocents to guilty people, all of whose relatives become potential recruits for the next round.

Truly effective efforts against terrorism involve engagement with Muslim society on a global scale over generations, and every Muslim occupation or retaliatory incident involving innocents we "westerners" sponsor puts the beginning of this process further and further into the future, at the price of blood and pain for both groups. That doesn't mean the engagement will be without friction and competition- but with respect and a tacit agreement that terrorism is unacceptable.

It's not surprising that people are baying for blood- it's exactly what the terrorists want. If we did what I outlined above, they'd eventually be out of business. With our ineffective retaliation and society-punishing responses, they can count on another generation of suicidal patsies.

It would be truly scary to the terrorists if the response of the British people were one *uninfluenced by terror*. A measured, calculated, long-term response designed not to punish Muslims, but to catch terrorists.

"Steven"

Edited July 8, 2005 by Ijustwannateach

[Clip_My_Wings]

It's too far fetched for Boon Mee to believe for sure. I think he actually believes the US government gave a sh.it about those people in 9/11.

Like those 3000 odd people were of actual importance in the grand scheme of things to the American government and its future plans. Just a drop in the ocean to them, 'a sacrifice for the better good'.

A little harsh there perhaps, bkkmadness.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have to disagree, I don't think it's harsh at all. These are governments that plan there future far ahead, they look at the great scheme of things, not how will tax be next year, but how will America/Europe/China stand in the next hundred or so years.

If the death of 3000 citizens means they can get more power at a later date and keep and increase their superpower status then its hardly a decision for them. Its an enormous game of chess, pawns need to be sacrificed and that precisely how the American government would view 9/11. Lets be honest about it people, it gave them a great excuse to go into Afghanistan and Iraq, it worked out very well for them, the troops dying there everyday and the initial victims of the tragedy means nothing to them.

Don't tell me the real powers that be in the American government didn't hear this news today and think to themselves "Well this will help us get some more backing for our war on terror, this will give us more excuses to perform illegal invasions and treatment of prisoners"

Or do you think they all had a good cry and felt really bad that 33 people they didn't know died.

They couldn't give a shit, we are all being led down the garden path with propaganda, cover ups and b.ullshit from the governments of the world, and its a shame that we have little power to do anything about it. Sad fact is that most people are sheep.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

if the usa wanted to conquer the world, they could have done this a long time ago. when the usa first invented the nuclear bomb, they were the only ones to have it for over 3 years.

if hitler had the atom bomb, he would have conquered the world. but because the usa has the good guy mentality, they didn't go this route.

they would rather have friends around them then slaves.

you need to get off this conspiracy idea...

if the usa is so bad, why did they invest all that money in japan and europe shortly after ww2 with the marshall plan?

from reports in the news, it seems that iran is sheltering terrorists, it is only logical to confront iran with this issue, and tell them to give up the terrorists. if they don't, then, go in with force. otherwise, these scenarios will occur again and again, and again. it won't end.

as I see it, the ones sheltering the terrorists are just as guilty as the terrorist.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The "investment" by the US after world war II did come with now so familar "attached conditions" , namely it allowed the US to position air bases all over the world and help their political agenda to become a super power and replace the faltering british , who in relation to size, had achieved a disproportiate amount of global control over its neighbours ...

so please be aware that US investment after the war was not merely out of goodwill and kindness.

nothing really has changed in the political environment of almost all countries in the world .. the modus operandi is to put self interest ahead of global interest, even if this is to the detrment of society as a whole ... nothing illustrates this more widely than the kyoto agreement, where the US refuse to sign up as it "harms US interests" ... or quite visably big busniess may loose a few million dollars and those part chief executives might have decide between a yacht or a private plane when of course they are desering of the ownership of both ...

back on subject , now what we really need to do is try to understand the thinkings of a person so angry that they are prepared to blow up innocent people in order to achieve their objectives whatever they are.. now some posters suggested that they want to eliminate all NON-muslims and claim global control of the world ... now this is obviously a far to simplistic view of the situation ... the problem is the protagonists (those in power), who convince and control the masses are the real people to blaim .. the iconic figure heads, the osama bin ladens the clerics, those who have the greater responsibility and can change the opinion of the followers, include also the western leaders in this category.

Now there is alot going in the world which causes mistrust, hatred and fear in our world .. and it really pisses me off .. the bigger picture which we are not really aware of ... issues such as:

invasion of iraq/afghanistan

and particlarly the israel/palenstine crisis, an issue so complex and engrained which can be easily understood by observers from far a field like myself.

in order to obtain a safer and more peaceful world we require gradual change and understanding a coming together of the masses .. its not something that will be achieved overnight by "killing all terrorists" , "withdrawing troops" or any other drastic suggestions made in haste after another terrible terrorist attack ...

unfortunately the majority are being failed by our leaders .. the leaders of the world be it western leaders and muslim leaders alike ..

[Thomas_Merton]

Here is an excerpt you can read online from a great book on why SOME Muslims feel as they do, and then act as they did in London yesterday. It tends to put some perspective on the events:

Imperial Hubris: Why the West is Losing the War on Terror by MICHAEL SCHEUER

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I've got a scanned version of this book as a pdf file.

IMHO it is an absolute must read for all seriously interested in solutions to this Gordian Knot.

PM me if you want a copy - give me an email address and I'll send it as an attachment. It is about 1.5MB in size.

[The_Moog]

In the Thai 6pm news it was just announced that Thaksin is sending a plane to London to bring people back to Thailand.

[sadman]

These are NOT just criminals they are specifically Muslim terrorists acting according to the basic tenets of their uniquely evil & horrific religion. The terrorists draw ideological direction from their evil faith & financial & logistical support from the wider Muslim community.

The non-Muslims greatest fear is that the BNP might capitalise on it - ridiculous. Non-Muslims - decent people from all the great religions of the world (excluding Islam by definition) - don't want their loved ones getting their legs blown off by these evil 7th century savages. The best way to ensure the BNP do not capitalise on it is to protect people from the Muslims & their evil repellent religion, instead of doing what the useless Labour bunch are doing & appeasing each monstrous demand that comes from them.

Terrorism is an end - to frighten people so that their lives are so disrupted that they become miserable and exert pressure on politicians. Terrorists use crime to do this - they are criminals, nothing more and nothing less.

I don't pretend to know Islam inside out, but I do know that it is neither evil nor horrific - although some individual Muslims are indeed such. As for being uniquely so, Catholicism has shown again and again that if the general message is ignored but instead isolated parts are relied upon (known as 'fundamentalism' - recognise it?), the results are pretty awful - the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, etc etc etc. By the way, I'm a practising Catholic and not just papist-bashing.

Harry 2, IMHO I fear that your reaction is exactly what will cause problems and precisely that desired by the murderous scum who orchestrated and executed these attacks. Don't rise to the bait, or we'll simply add petrol to the flames.

[Clip_My_Wings]

Neeranam - believe what you want mate, but normal thinking people dont work conspiracies, alterior motives, and the impossible into every animalistic action of these bloody fanatical nutters. It is what it is - a bombing caused by nutters. If we did this for oil I for one want to know why we aren't benefiting from it one satang!!!  Oil should be flowing cheaper than evernot at record highs least for UK and Yanks!

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there is perverse effect when it comes to oil ... prices rise but the oil companies make record profits .. so while the normal everyday man is not beneffiting from the oil reserves obtained from iraq, and the pipeline built on afghan soil , sure as ###### the rich business man is ... it just so happens that bush and he's cronies have a vested interest in oil ..

not to mention good old halliburton ...for anyone who dioesn't know a good old american company .. who have profited from the war by being awared major multi millon dollar contracts .. and who happens to have "vested" interest in this company .. why who else but good old Mr Cheney himself ..

please i implore everyone to watch micheal moore 9/11 .. it makes interesting viewing ..

the wool is being pulled over our eyes ... by both vile parties .. muslim and western leaders ... i far one plan to find myself an island in the ocean and not let these pigs effect my life or control my destiny

[davethailand]

In the Thai 6pm news it was just announced that Thaksin is sending a plane to London to bring people back to Thailand.

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Thats a help!

Idiot