Options Are Running Out In Thailand's South

[webfact]

EDITORIAL

It's a hard battle against an enemy one cannot see

Options are running out in the South; it's time to open up the dialogue on legitimacy

On Thursday last week in Yala's Banang Sata district, two Malay Muslim separatists took on about 50 police and soldiers in a standoff that lasted nearly six hours. One army corporal was shot in the leg, very likely from friendly fire, given the high number of security officials commencing fire.

In typical news coverage by the vernacular press, the 50 security officers were presented as heroes who had defended Thailand's sovereignty against Muslim separatists bent on carving out a chunk of the country for the local Malay population.

For the sake of argument, let's strip away the uniforms and identities of the participants of this recent gun battle and see the event for what it was. Two armed men, outgunned and outnumbered, holding up 50 armed security personnel for so long wasn't a bad effort - if one wants to look at it in those terms. The two men certainly did not have the national press behind them, either. How the Thai media and government troops could be so proud given those kinds of odds, we'll never know.

But while the authorities were painted as heroes, more sensible officials and observers said they were disturbed by what had happened. Besides the existence of a number of kleptomaniacs among the rank and file (expensive bird cages apparently being their favourite targets), these sensible officials are concerned that more and more militants are willing to die rather then surrender.

The father of one of the two suspects at the Banang Sata standoff tried to urge the two men to surrender. His son replied: "Go prepare my gravesite, Dad."

Similar incidents in the past have seen insurgents destroying their mobile phones to make sure that investigators could not trace their fellow militants. That may be a small task, but nevertheless it reflects their level of commitment and their state of mind as they prepare for their last moments on earth.

It's one thing to come across militants while conducting routine patrols. But when the militants are cornered with nowhere to run or hide, and decide to fight to the death, one can safely assume that the conflict has taken on a different meaning. Their level of commitment is unquestionable.

Of course, no government official or security officer would express such a view on the record because it doesn't follow the media script for domestic consumption.

The standoff in Banang Sata was not the first of its kind, and almost certainly will not be the last. A number of similar incidents have ended the same way. In November 2009 in Pattani's Khok Pho district, six gunmen were surrounded and eventually gunned down because they refused to surrender.

But behind the feelgood media coverage that follows such incidents is a long and hard road that will lead to more deaths on both sides.

No one can really say how or why the insurgency has degenerated to this point. Does it reflect the militants' commitment to a free Pattani?

It could be that they are convinced that all the international human rights agreements Thailand has signed over the years will still not guarantee them a fair trial or due process? Certainly the culture of impunity in the Thai security forces has long been a problem.

To what extent has Islam played a part? If it has played a large role, why haven't Muslims around the country become involved in the conflict or made a big stink about what's going on in the deep South. There is no clear-cut answer to any of these questions.

But as long as the government continues with a simplistic, zero-sum game and does not open up the discourse on the legitimacy of the Thai state in the Malay historical homeland, the end will be nowhere in sight.

Even if Thai troops succeeded in killing all the current militants, the same grievances and spirit that gave rise to this generation of separatists will certainly give rise to the next.

Conducting a counter-insurgency is one thing. But how does one come out "victorious" against enemies who are willing to fight to the death? You can't.

-- The Nation 2010-08-06

[webfact]

OVERDRIVE

The best man for the job

By Thanong Khanthong

BECAUSE Lt-General Phichet Wisaichorn, the commander of the Fourth Army Region, is going to be transferred back to Bangkok for promotion to deputy Army chief in the annual reshuffle, the vacancy for his important position is now the subject of speculation. For the man who succeeds Lt-General Phichet will have the huge responsibility of maintaining security and restoring peace to the deep South.

I have been down to the South several times to observe the security operations, and have come to learn much through Maj-General Chamlong Khunsong, deputy commander of the Fourth Army Region. Maj-General Chamlong is now one of the contenders for the position of Fourth Army Region commander.

Maj-General Chamlong is a Songkhla man by birth. But he grew up in Saiburi, Pattani. He belongs to Class 14 of the Military Pre-Cadet School. Apart from a military stint in Lop Buri, Maj-General Chamlong has spent most of his career in the South. He has been involved in combat exercises, the most important of which was a clash with foreign troops in Aranyaprathet.

Some time ago, I had an opportunity to talk to Maj-General Chamlong about his strategy to tackle the southern insurgency. I found his ideas quite interesting as the problems in the South are complex and require different implementations and dimensions all at once. Because Maj-General Chamlong has been working in the South on a daily basis, he has a good understanding of the position, and knows the problems inside out.

The first strategy involves a peace offer. The government has already put in place a security law to offer amnesty to insurgents, who agree to turn themselves in and to get back to normal life in mainstream society. This law was passed about a year ago, and is now awaiting implementation. Only military personnel in the field can implement this programme, which will also involve interrogation, approval of the change behaviour of the insurgent, a prosecution process and finally a court ruling for amnesty.

Secondly, the authorities have to embark on in-depth intelligence gathering. They have to turn every stone to discover the objectives of the insurgents and their masterminds, and also their organisational structure. If the authorities know what the insurgents want, they can work out measures for a comprehensive game plan rather than using their imagination to handle the problems.

Only through this method can a certain level of trust be rebuilt. If the insurgents are really going for separatism, how should the authorities handle the situation? Of about 2 million Muslim Thais in Pattani, Yala and Narathiwat, only about 8,000 are thought to be insurgents with financial backing and training inside and outside Thailand.

Thirdly, a hawkish military stance remains necessary to apply pressure during the peace offer and reconciliation plan. For the military is still responsible for safeguarding the security of people in the South. The authorities will also have to quash the belief of the insurgents that they can win this war of terror. They have to try to bring the violence under control and prevent it from spreading outside the three affected provinces. Economic sufficiency projects to help the Muslim poor improve their living conditions are also necessary.

Finally, the authorities will have to listen to the opinions or proposals of the civil society in the South, as well as other government agencies, on how to tackle the military and socio-economic problems in the region. This will have to be done in a bottom-up fashion.

Other important measures include: Ensuring justice for all in this conflict situation; offering better education opportunities to the Malay Muslim population and recognising the degrees they have obtained abroad so that they can work in Thai society (most also wish to send their children to local Thai schools); improving economic conditions through projects in conjunction with the civic organisations and the broader society; and respecting their religion, culture and identity.

During our conversations, Maj-General Chamlong told me that it could take only two years to see real progress in the deep South. But this will require the full cooperation of all people and agencies involved.

Under the circumstances, it seems best to offer the vacant position of regional military commander to the person who knows and understands the problems of the South thoroughly.

-- The Nation 2010-08-06

[Werfer]

Wow, that article suxs. Fancy trying to give some credibility to a couple of terrorist thugs. They even credited them with how long they held off the security forces for.

This was only due to that fact that the security forces negotiated with them for so long and gave them every opportunity to end the situation peacefully.

These terrorist deserved their demise. Full credit to the forces that dispatched them.

[laosuwan]

these guys at the nation never get it. they do not understand that this is a war by islam against polytheists, buddhists. the motivation is rooted in the koran and suriahs; it has nothing to do with land or ethnicity. they keep grasping at straws, unable to understand But the eveidence is all around them with 1400 years of history. thailand has already lost its south, but still has not realized. thailand cannot even name the enemy that is fighting them and they certainly do not have the stomach to do what would have to be done to bring peace to the south, expell the muslim population. The UN and usa will always side with the OIC oil barons (think pakistan, kosovo, serbia, etc.). its a hopeless cause at this point and the jihadists know it. for them it is a priviledge to die fighting for the cause of allah. The mistake thailand will also make in the future is to assume this war is limited to the south. within 50 years most of thailand will be an islamic state. sound crazy? take a look at what will happen to britain, france or norway in another ten or 15 years. take a look at the mosques along the highway from suvarnaphumi announcing their intent to conquor this land. it is inevitable.

history of jihad dot org slash thailand for more historical background on the thai south.

Wow, that article suxs. Fancy trying to give some credibility to a couple of terrorist thugs. They even credited them with how long they held off the security forces for.

This was only due to that fact that the security forces negotiated with them for so long and gave them every opportunity to end the situation peacefully.

These terrorist deserved their demise. Full credit to the forces that dispatched them.

[jayjay0]

Wow, that article suxs. Fancy trying to give some credibility to a couple of terrorist thugs. They even credited them with how long they held off the security forces for.

This was only due to that fact that the security forces negotiated with them for so long and gave them every opportunity to end the situation peacefully.

These terrorist deserved their demise. Full credit to the forces that dispatched them.

Well said.

The line that caught my attention was

"To what extent has Islam played a part?"

They managed to make light of it with a large part of it.

Excuse me it is the whole not a part.

Thay have stated many times that they the Muslims want to take over the world. It is part of there religion. They can not take over Thail;and with its strong Budihst belief so seperate and impose there law where they can.

The idea of being a part of is not in there belief. They believe that they should be the all. Perhaps if the Government were to try to address the problem instead of just fighting the radical ones they might do a little better. How I don't know but what they are doing will not make the problem go away. Nor will dening it or covering it up.

We all know that far and away the majority of Muslims want nothing to do with the radicals and are content to live in peace. It is the case of the tail waging the dog.

[laosuwan]

Wow, that article suxs. Fancy trying to give some credibility to a couple of terrorist thugs. They even credited them with how long they held off the security forces for.

This was only due to that fact that the security forces negotiated with them for so long and gave them every opportunity to end the situation peacefully.

These terrorist deserved their demise. Full credit to the forces that dispatched them.

Well said.

The line that caught my attention was

"To what extent has Islam played a part?"

They managed to make light of it with a large part of it.

Excuse me it is the whole not a part.

Thay have stated many times that they the Muslims want to take over the world. It is part of there religion. They can not take over Thail;and with its strong Budihst belief so seperate and impose there law where they can.

The idea of being a part of is not in there belief. They believe that they should be the all. Perhaps if the Government were to try to address the problem instead of just fighting the radical ones they might do a little better. How I don't know but what they are doing will not make the problem go away. Nor will dening it or covering it up.

We all know that far and away the majority of Muslims want nothing to do with the radicals and are content to live in peace. It is the case of the tail waging the dog.

the problem is that there is no such thing as moderate islam, there is just islam. this is why moderates can never rebut the radicals becasue the radicals have the texts on their side. if you look at so called christian nations like the us or italy you can see that most people dont really practice or even understand their own religous teachings. the same is true in thailand with muslims here; they really dont know much about their religion's teachings, and that is why they are moderate. as islam grows and becomes more pure, wherever that happens, you see the terror at non muslims and muslims who do not conform, increases proportionately. If you go through krabi or phuket, for example today you will see about maybe three percent of the muslim women wearing full black chadors with only the eye visible. ten years ago you would never have seen that at all.

its coming.

[junglist]

You all need a history lesson to understand this. It’s a sad story of people be lied to trick and used as slave labor. I don’t condole what they do it is wrong but when your backed into a corner and there is no hope, many will choose to fight. I only see a sad story becoming even sadder.

[zzaa09]

You all need a history lesson to understand this.

I was just thinking this same thing. It's quite unfortunate that most that expel commentary and opinions towards this fragile region are seemingly vacant as to it's history.

[phetaroi]

You all need a history lesson to understand this. It’s a sad story of people be lied to trick and used as slave labor. I don’t condole what they do it is wrong but when your backed into a corner and there is no hope, many will choose to fight. I only see a sad story becoming even sadder.

A few years ago -- before the latest round of trouble started -- I was down in the south for about a month and struck up a few conversations with some Muslims about the situation. When I asked them what they problem was they said that the Thai government was so unfair to them. But when I asked for some examples, they couldn't really think of any. The most specific examples I got from them were things like, "Bangkok is so far away from us and our problems." I got the sense that on the one hand they were saying we are different and want to be separate, and were then complaining that they were treated differently and were set to the side.

On the other hand, I kind of laugh when I read about solving the problem. What specifically has the Thai government done to solve the problems? Run their mouths, yes. Done anything...not that I'm aware of. Mai pben rai seems to be the strategy.

[CMX]

Considering the source, the first article is one of the most sophisticated and accurate setting out of issues that I have read (there). Author should be proud of having avoided the jingoistic babble that passes for the Nation's thinking, pap in its prime.

After all, what it asks is to know is what sincere efforts have been made by the Thai government to be more inclusive and understanding. It suggests that the military arm of government may have been, at least historically, a bit heavy handed and little supervised by civilian control. These issues of independence exist around the world, without regard to religion - I give you Catalonia or many neighbors of Russia.

The following contribution, "the problem is that there is no such thing as moderate islam..." - which we must admit is a popular view in some quarters - represents a disappointing lack of awareness of human history and a complete denial of the understanding of the Moslem faith by its vast majority.

[geriatrickid]

Maybe it is time to accept the fact that the annexation of the predominately Malaysian associated territory was wrong and that an attempt to force people that are more tied to the Malaysian culture to become Thai nationals is wrong.

It is unfortunate that some people are unaware that parts of the region belonged to the Malay sultanates of Pattani and Kedah. Just because the English were trying to cement their control over Malaya and signed a deal with Siam in 1909 to cede the land, doesn't mean that the locals have to accept the loss of their culture or their land. The English were foreign occupiers and had no legitimate right to give away other people's territory.

There has been an outright civil insurrection since 1957. For all of the Thaksin haters out there, it is worth noting that the problems only started spinning out of control after Thaksin was ousted by the military. Note that total deaths up until 2006 were approx. 1400. Following Thaksin's ouster, the total recorded deaths were 2700 in 2007. Not that Thaksin treated the locals nicely, but the military approach has been inconsistent and unreliable. Time to fly the flag of surrender and accept defeat in a war of attrition that cannot be won.

[SamritT]

more tax money is needed to fix the problem. Said politicians.

[OzMick]

"But how does one come out "victorious" against enemies who are willing to fight to the death?" Well, first you kill them. This of course will then create animosity in their families/offspring but you can give them something their dead heroes never had, a decent education where religion is NOT the most important R. When they can read, write and count, they might possible find employment less than menial, and even resist being brainwashed with the BS promises of life eternal/heaven/virgin slaves.

Some of the other questions raised and not raised:

"Does it reflect the militants' commitment to a free Pattani?" Is Free Pattani a viable state? Probably not, on its own resources. So join Malaysia, with KL nearly as distant as BKK? Or exist as an extreme Muslim state funded by those currently funding the terrorism? Either way, would a Free Pattani have the social and religious freedoms that they have today?

"....why haven't Muslims around the country become involved in the conflict or made a big stink about what's going on in the deep South?" The obvious answer is that they just don't care. Could it be that they are happy living in Thailand where they have the freedom to (shock, horror, kill them) change/abandon their religion and marry whoever they choose? How many in the deep south are involved in or support the insurrection; surely not a majority? Should they have the radical views of a minority forced upon them?

".......... will still not guarantee them a fair trial or due process?" Perhaps they know the penalty for murder and terrorism?

".......... why the insurgency has degenerated to this point." OR Why have they become insurgents? What is their grievance/s? Is it racial, religious, or what Could it be that, when your main educational qualification is being able to recite the koran in Arabic, you can't get a job commensurate with your aspirations; that a life of praying and menial labour leaves you susceptible to foreign rabble-rousers with cash to throw 'round. Sure you might get killed, but you're going straight to heaven, aren't you? IT BEATS WORKING FOR A LIVING!

Edited August 6, 2010 by OzMick

[jayjay0]

You all need a history lesson to understand this.

I was just thinking this same thing. It's quite unfortunate that most that expel commentary and opinions towards this fragile region are seemingly vacant as to it's history.

The countries history has nothing to do with it. If it was a Buddiest or Christian dominated society there would be no problem. Perhaps you two should forget history and look at today instead.

Islam's thinking is where the Catholic Church was in the times of the Crusades. It has not changed one bit. Christianity still leaves a lot to change but at least they are changing.

Maybe we need a Crusade.

[jayjay0]

Maybe it is time to accept the fact that the annexation of the predominately Malaysian associated territory was wrong and that an attempt to force people that are more tied to the Malaysian culture to become Thai nationals is wrong.

It is unfortunate that some people are unaware that parts of the region belonged to the Malay sultanates of Pattani and Kedah. Just because the English were trying to cement their control over Malaya and signed a deal with Siam in 1909 to cede the land, doesn't mean that the locals have to accept the loss of their culture or their land. The English were foreign occupiers and had no legitimate right to give away other people's territory.

There has been an outright civil insurrection since 1957. For all of the Thaksin haters out there, it is worth noting that the problems only started spinning out of control after Thaksin was ousted by the military. Note that total deaths up until 2006 were approx. 1400. Following Thaksin's ouster, the total recorded deaths were 2700 in 2007. Not that Thaksin treated the locals nicely, but the military approach has been inconsistent and unreliable. Time to fly the flag of surrender and accept defeat in a war of attrition that cannot be won.

Just being curious but

How much of Thailand would be left if we just went and separated every different culture and said well this was your land now take it back and be a country on your own. Does it not strike you as different that the only ones who cry culture difference are the Muslims. All the other cultures seem to get along without road side bombs drive by shootings.

As a aside I heard that Malaysia didn't want them. They would be on there own to do what ever they wanted.

Kind of misleading saying that there was far fewer deaths before Thaksins ouster. The reason for that is the changes he made in the handling of the south and his successors adhering to it.

There is another thread where the army admits that there is still a big problem but they have made some huge inroads into it in the last few years. Remains to be seen what will happen if they change the General in charge of the situation. Hope fully he will carry on and maybe improve on the program.

[TheBarbarian]

Welcome to the heartland of the Democrat Party, it is full of terrorists, real terrorists not the kind of nice people that simply demonstrated for what is truly their right. Unfortunately Muslims have a very thin skin and are all members of a very peaceful religion. A peaceful religion that shows it true colors from iraq to Indonesia and from Britain to the US.

Good luck with the South, just dig the canal over there. It makes it more difficult to move places and will bring Thailand prosperity. Or just hand it back to Malaysia who cares?

[z9999]

"But how does one come out "victorious" against enemies who are willing to fight to the death? You can't."

You CAN, only if you recognize and accept what results in victory. In the end victory is always achieved by those who are most willing to achieve it as a finality. Read the Quo'ran.

[fxe1200]

You all need a history lesson to understand this. It’s a sad story of people be lied to trick and used as slave labor. I don’t condole what they do it is wrong but when your backed into a corner and there is no hope, many will choose to fight. I only see a sad story becoming even sadder.

And as long the people responsible for the massacre in Tak Bai on October 25th 2004 are not behind bars, there will be not a chance of peace in the South. Have a look at Youtube.

[HakimKlunker]

Well said.

The line that caught my attention was

"To what extent has Islam played a part?"

They managed to make light of it with a large part of it.

Excuse me it is the whole not a part...

AND:

...We all know that far and away the majority of Muslims want nothing to do with the radicals and are content to live in peace.

Is this now a new religious forum?

Make a point now my friend: Do they, or do they not want?

And what actually do they want? In YOUR eyes?

I am a Muslim myself, and I don't give a dam_n of who is right or wrong there. Same goes to Palestine: These are local affairs and if religion is involved, then as usual by individuals to exploit their personal options.

If your idea would be correct, I would be there now to bomb out 'enemies', too.

The world must be freed indeed - - - freed from stupid prejudices.

Salam!!!

[mark51mark]

You all need a history lesson to understand this. It's a sad story of people be lied to trick and used as slave labor. I don't condole what they do it is wrong but when your backed into a corner and there is no hope, many will choose to fight. I only see a sad story becoming even sadder.

And as long the people responsible for the massacre in Tak Bai on October 25th 2004 are not behind bars, there will be not a chance of peace in the South. Have a look at Youtube.

i agree, well said

[march]

the problems only started spinning out of control after Thaksin was ousted by the military.

No, it didn't.

There's volumes that have been written that it began during Thaksin's regime in 2004.

An example of which comes from Agence France Presse dated Jan 4, 2008:

No end in sight as south Thai rebellion enters fifth year

Brutal killings have reached unprecedented levels in Thailand's Muslim-majority south, experts say, as the region enters the fifth year of a separatist insurgency that is tearing communities apart.

Former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra's heavy-handed tactics were widely blamed for exacerbating the unrest in Yala, Pattani and Narathiwat provinces

The practice of beheading began in 2005, including five in a two week period in June, during Thaksin's time.

The practice of bombings became prominent in 2006, with 70 in just one night (August 1), still during his regime.

[zzaa09]

On the other hand, I kind of laugh when I read about solving the problem. What specifically has the Thai government done to solve the problems? Run their mouths, yes. Done anything...not that I'm aware of. Mai pben rai seems to be the strategy.

Though, granted the handful of extremists in those southern provinces are far from sainted, but the contemporary collective Thai governments have really done nothing but agitate the situation. For they aren't sugary pure themselves. It's never brought to attention or even suggested that the Thai establishment are playing their own underground guerrilla war as well. In some circles, it's quite well known that false flag operations and agent provocateur activities are ongoing - especially since the Thaksin era, whom conveniently borrowed the Americans War on Islam conditioning. Naturally, perpetuating the horrific brutality that seemingly indoctrinates the observing public that such "terrorism" is always one-sided. One has to carefully understand the southern peoples, as well. It's really not a universal movement that is greatly supported by the overall average folks of the region, but a small mindless faction that certainly doesn't reflect the mood of the Thai-Malay Islamic community nor represent their truer sentiments. As it is with current events and historic consciousnesses, it is a given that most of us will indifferently take in only one side of the story - a fabricated and necessary tool within every body of established convention. These ongoing hostilities are not recent {last 10 years} either.....the anxiety goes way back to the turn of the last century. Remembering that those 4-6 southern provinces {can be argued as to the number} were forcibly colonized by the Siam-British consortium, and in time gobbled up by the ever expanding Thai state. 'Tis wonder they've been steadfast towards their rebellious behaviour. Also lost in historic convenience is the fact that one-quarter of today's land within Thai borders was basically stolen or colonized.

[phetaroi]

On the other hand, I kind of laugh when I read about solving the problem. What specifically has the Thai government done to solve the problems? Run their mouths, yes. Done anything...not that I'm aware of. Mai pben rai seems to be the strategy.

Though, granted the handful of extremists in those southern provinces are far from sainted, but the contemporary collective Thai governments have really done nothing but agitate the situation. For they aren't sugary pure themselves. It's never brought to attention or even suggested that the Thai establishment are playing their own underground guerrilla war as well. In some circles, it's quite well known that false flag operations and agent provocateur activities are ongoing - especially since the Thaksin era, whom conveniently borrowed the Americans War on Islam conditioning. Naturally, perpetuating the horrific brutality that seemingly indoctrinates the observing public that such "terrorism" is always one-sided. One has to carefully understand the southern peoples, as well. It's really not a universal movement that is greatly supported by the overall average folks of the region, but a small mindless faction that certainly doesn't reflect the mood of the Thai-Malay Islamic community nor represent their truer sentiments. As it is with current events and historic consciousnesses, it is a given that most of us will indifferently take in only one side of the story - a fabricated and necessary tool within every body of established convention. These ongoing hostilities are not recent {last 10 years} either.....the anxiety goes way back to the turn of the last century. Remembering that those 4-6 southern provinces {can be argued as to the number} were forcibly colonized by the Siam-British consortium, and in time gobbled up by the ever expanding Thai state. 'Tis wonder they've been steadfast towards their rebellious behaviour. Also lost in historic convenience is the fact that one-quarter of today's land within Thai borders was basically stolen or colonized.

The current map of the world is the map of the world. You cannot begin to change borders now to accommodate history. To begin, which point in history do you go back to? Which treaties do you ignore or honor? Which wars were just or unjust?

[asiawatcher]

Considering the source, the first article is one of the most sophisticated and accurate setting out of issues that I have read (there). Author should be proud of having avoided the jingoistic babble that passes for the Nation's thinking, pap in its prime.

After all, what it asks is to know is what sincere efforts have been made by the Thai government to be more inclusive and understanding. It suggests that the military arm of government may have been, at least historically, a bit heavy handed and little supervised by civilian control. These issues of independence exist around the world, without regard to religion - I give you Catalonia or many neighbors of Russia.

The following contribution, "the problem is that there is no such thing as moderate islam..." - which we must admit is a popular view in some quarters - represents a disappointing lack of awareness of human history and a complete denial of the understanding of the Moslem faith by its vast majority.

I doubt political correctness will win this conflict here or offshore. Islam is becoming a burgeoning danger to the whole world right now with its ancient teachings that has not and will not adjust to the modern day. Ask the guy who has his wife top to tail in a shroud and face mask and he walks in front with Nike sandals and sports shorts. The rules don't apply unless you are in Pakistan and look at the true state of other 'believers'. Beards (why?) and unkempt poor people basing their existence on a 'prophet'. It is a long road to travel and between religion and politics, Thailand may well be the melting pot of a way forward. But I fear it will ba lll out war as Islam treats Thai's as well as westerners as 'infidels' and still incite decapitation and death as our only right!

In my own country they have started putting down the 'imports' who refuse to adjust their way of life after pleading for political asylum. Malaya in 1967 (pre Malaysia) saw many Islamic people cross the border into Thailand to get away from the conflict but the problem started way before. Political correctness more openly known as leniency has led to the problem. It is also now hard to find many Thai speaking individuals in the deep south of Thailand - that is the start of it and look at the plethora of mosques opening around the country - blaring its rubbish out as if we really need to hear it - what ever happened to noise pollution and integration ad respect for the law and others in the community? ... soon to rival the 100,000 Wats? They remain in their own communities, do not attempt to intersperse with other civilisations and refuse to become mixed community members as taught in the 'book' spelt any way you want ... it is a road to hel_l for the believers and a road to misery for the rest of us! So let the sh*t his the fan - it won't be long .....

Edited August 6, 2010 by asiawatcher

[elcent]

Self denial is the biggest enemy from within and blocks any attempts to win over cruel fanatics, - that is. - Moderates included, because and according to the book ithey do not exist.

Individually you can meet great people from the Muslim community, but bear in mind they're in a big company where the managers actually don't like the maids and the helpers who do the dirty job but also know they are neccessarry to run the enterprise, hmm ...

Also in many cases it is rather a traditional membership to Islam than an active one (fortunately).

[jayjay0]

Perhaps People might have a better idea of the situation in the south if they read this article. On a thread three days ago. Amazing there was only 4 replies to it.

Not sure about any one else but that kind of makes me think it is all true. Normally you would have that many Thai haters denying it.

Posted 2010-08-03 08:13

Army commander sees hope for reconciliation in the South

By The Nation

Thanong Khanthong talks to Lt General Phichet Wisaijorn, commander of the Fourth Army Region, on the latest situation in the deep South.

How would you assess the problems of suspicion and violence in the deep South?

We have been pursuing a principle of understanding, getting into their heart and development" and introducing the philosophy of economic sufficiency to help improve the living conditions of people in the South. This has significantly improved the situation. We have authorities looking after all the villages with incidences of violence, which is a total of 217 out of 2,000. Before, there was no trust between the locals and the authorities, and the children would raise their feet to soldiers passing by. Now the children wave to us instead. I have told my personnel that if they don't get a wave from local people, they have flunked the test. We are maintaining an economic sufficiency centre to help educate local people on how to earn their own living.

Is the violence increasing or has the situation been improving?

Violent incidents and acts of sabotage have decreased in terms of statistics. But the degree of violence has increased. This means that they [the insurgents] are aiming for "quality" in their operations. They want the media to apply pressure on military personnel. However, before, shops and other public places closed before 7pm. Now they're still open until 10pm. Confidence has started to return. The Red Cross Fair, for example, attracted a large crowd.

If you look at Hat Yai, there are now more people going there for leisure or shopping. This helps to improve the social psychology. There are two million people in the three southern provinces [Pattani, Yala and Narathiwat], and only 8,000 are believed to have been involved in acts of violence. It is not possible to end the violence all at once. We have to rely on the justice system. We give the people liberty. We do not infringe on their identity. We also support their travel to the hajj. They elect their own leaders in the local administrations.

Are there enough military personnel to handle security in the South?

At the moment we have 60,000 in total. Some 30,000 are soldiers, and the other half work as tutors and officials in the villages. Given the fact that there are 2,000 villages we need to look after, the number of personnel isn't that much. If you divide 30,000 by 2,000, then we have 15 people in each village. Our daily operation is very tight. We have 2,600 routine operations on a daily basis. We need to provide protection to teachers and monks, secure the roads, and handle other security tasks.

Some people criticise us for having too many personnel down here, but the number is not high at all. My staff has to work hard. They work for 45 days straight before resting for 10 days. I would like to thank Army Chief General Anupong Paochinda for looking after the welfare of the military personnel. Their morale has been boosted. The task down here is very tense.

We have heard that the Fourth Army's dentistry programme to help southern Muslims has received a very positive response. How does it work?

We have doctors and dentists at the Sirindhorn Military Camp in Pattani. We have received a mobile van for dentistry, and are now providing dental service to the local people there. Most of them have poor dental health. Many people in their forties no longer have any teeth. They have difficulty chewing their food. We have provided false teeth for free. So far, more than 600 people have received false teeth through our service. This has changed their lives and improved their personality. They have more confidence.

We also operate static-electric chairs to help local people suffering from paralysis. We have 40 chairs, and can treat 500 people a day. It works. Those who have to be carried from cars to receive the treatment now can walk by themselves. Those with high-level diabetes have also been treated. High blood pressure rates have also improved. During the treatment, we serve coffee and cookies. We put out a box for donations, and ask for only five baht each time. If they have money, they can donate. If they don't, they don't need to.

You're probably the most popular general in the South. We've heard that people wait for you in the early morning, every day.

I wake up at five o'clock every morning for exercise. At 5.30, I make my way to the operations centre [at the Sirindhorn Military Camp] to review and oversee the operation for the day. At about 6.45, the villagers come to the camp. Many of them are waiting for new teeth or for eye-glasses. We hand out eye-glasses to them so that they can read or see more clearly at distance. So far we have given out 6,000 pairs of glasses. I tell them that they can now read the Koran more easily.

Edited August 6, 2010 by jayjay0

[jayjay0]

For myself this was a real eye opener

"Are there enough military personnel to handle security in the South?

At the moment we have 60,000 in total. Some 30,000 are soldiers, and the other half work as tutors and officials in the villages. Given the fact that there are 2,000 villages we need to look after, the number of personnel isn't that much. If you divide 30,000 by 2,000, then we have 15 people in each village. Our daily operation is very tight. We have 2,600 routine operations on a daily basis. We need to provide protection to teachers and monks, secure the roads, and handle other security tasks.

Some people criticise us for having too many personnel down here, but the number is not high at all. My staff has to work hard. They work for 45 days straight before resting for 10 days. I would like to thank Army Chief General Anupong Paochinda for looking after the welfare of the military personnel. Their morale has been boosted. The task down here is very tense."

[MUYTHAI]

Maybe it is time to accept the fact that the annexation of the predominately Malaysian associated territory was wrong and that an attempt to force people that are more tied to the Malaysian culture to become Thai nationals is wrong.

It is unfortunate that some people are unaware that parts of the region belonged to the Malay sultanates of Pattani and Kedah. Just because the English were trying to cement their control over Malaya and signed a deal with Siam in 1909 to cede the land, doesn't mean that the locals have to accept the loss of their culture or their land. The English were foreign occupiers and had no legitimate right to give away other people's territory.

There has been an outright civil insurrection since 1957. For all of the Thaksin haters out there, it is worth noting that the problems only started spinning out of control after Thaksin was ousted by the military. Note that total deaths up until 2006 were approx. 1400. Following Thaksin's ouster, the total recorded deaths were 2700 in 2007. Not that Thaksin treated the locals nicely, but the military approach has been inconsistent and unreliable. Time to fly the flag of surrender and accept defeat in a war of attrition that cannot be won.

Sorry...your post is not logical. If you want to give the 'islamic' Thai provinces to Malaysia, etc. people all over the Erth shoud start carving up their countries and giving territory back to those who owned it or controlled it before it changed ownership and then do it again because those peole most likely conquered and took the land from smeone else. For thousands of years there has been a waxing and waning of territorial control by powers that have come and gone. Let us give the western USA back to the Mexico, then give Mexico back to Spain, them have Spain give the land back to the indigenous Native Americans that were there when the Spanish took their land, then give the land back to the tribes that previously hald the land before it was taken by antoher invading tribe. Is there a particular date that you believe should be used as a cutoff date it terms of giving land back to previous owners?

That being said, I believe that Krom Campuchea (Cochinchina) now known as south Vietnam should be given back to Cambodia. It was given to Vietnam in 1949. There Vietnamese have been persecuting the Khmer, Champa, Cambodian, etc. people of this area ever since France gave this territory to Vietnam. Ethnic and cultural cleansing by the Vietnamese government...indeed.

Sorry...I am too tired to spell check this post.

[Hardie]

G-kid's post is very logical. No, you don't have to give everything back, but in many cases it should be considered, or at the very least the ethnicity of its inhabitants ACKNOWLEDGED. Thais won't even acknowledge that the 'yawi' spoken there is a dialect of Malay, and therefore they are part of something much bigger than Thailand, that includes Malaysia. Brunei, and Indonesia. This is always the hardest part in Thailand, establishing a basis of truth and honesty, not just self-serving face-saving. Phuket, Similan, and many others- likely even 'Bangkok'- are all names that derive from Malay.

In response to a previous post, yes, new countries can be created. Many have done so in the last decade, and others are waiting in the wings. Ever heard of Abkhazia or Transdniester? You likely will soon. That's the beauty of our modern mostly war-less world. Countries don't have to meld together out of external fears. If that means 1000 little countries, then so be it. Northern Thailand only officially joined the Kingdom less than 200 years ago.

What to do in the south? Start with a semi-autonomous region, standing more on its own... and with consequently less central support. They just might start appreciating what their association with Thailand gives them... or not. The old days of colonialism and direct rule imposed on distant provinces is no longer necessary.

p.s. Muslims- and Arabs- are some of the nicest people in the world, and their religion is the equal of any. I've seen more Christian missionaries in far-flung countries than I have Muslim.