The Risk Of Killing Children

[CMX]

Let us consider those who race fast in Thailand and are dedicated in good part to testing their bikes to the limits on public roads. (Let us leave out entirely racing on tracks or off-road.) Recent discussions by speedy motorcycle riders include how to ride over a dog as safely as possible (get off the brakes). Pictures show their superb drivers after a spill. Anyone who has followed one of their fascinating videos of competitive riding has seen the many curves and hillocks over which their powerful (and marvelously expensive) machines speed in such a way as to be unable to see beyond the capability of their braking (thus the dead dogs). (Most of these, I am sure, are legal bikes – by which I mean are not owned by those who cower from paying taxes due to a developing nation and its many poor.)

What puzzles me is why so few of us seem concerned by these happy fellows for the risk that they pose to public. Thai Visa (or at least its biking contributors) are generally pretty reliable for attacks. If these reckless speeders go so far as to discuss safest way to run over a dog (braking in the blood and guts appears to be the real problem, they suggest), how are we to conclude that they do not take excessive risks with the lives of citizens (kids can be as small as a pooch; let us not discuss the statistics as the danger is so much more important)? Why do we not report them as a matter of conscience to the police?

The traffic laws here include vague catch-all restrictions specifically against harming others, not different from “wanton and reckless disregard” rules in the U.S. - which laws remove intent from the requirement of charging crimes as felonies, and thus assuring more severe consequences. Is it simply that we are waiting for the worst to happen so that we can prove to the police their lawbreaking habits, ensuring that the sentences match pretty closely the harm done?

Of course I am new here, just 7 months, but these are not, I suppose, Thai riders. What would happen to such racers in Western nations? Is this really freedom – or does it represent arrogant indifference, pride before the tragic fall?

Charlie Mike X-ray

[LivinLOS]

Dogs run out in front without any limits on 'safe breaking distance' often in highways and other places where children should not be. Yes there is a risk that awful parenting would allow children to be near a fast road, but its not nearly the same risk as the random soi dogs living on the edge of the road.

The barely veiled attack simply smacks of justifed jealousy..

[NanLaew]

mai pen rai springs to mind

[noahvail]

Quite the diatribe. I ride a Ninja 650, but I use it as a sports-cruiser, with emphasis on the cruiser. I like to smell the flowers more than scrubbed rubber on the asphalt.

HOWEVER...I do know how to run over a dog and stay upright. Going through villages here at 40 kph I still run the risk of hitting a dog. Of course, I also run the risk of getting hit by a scooter or having a kid run out in front of me. In all those cases I like to be able to twist the throttle and ride *around* the accident situations instead of into them with the brakes.

I would happily dump my bike into the side of the road, risking injury to myself, than to hit a kid. I'd feel less happy about that risk as opposed to hitting a scooter. But hit a dog and end up in hospital for six months? When I can do it with my personal safety in mind first?

Of course, it's always the biker's fault. Never the fault of the dog owner who doesn't keep the dog fenced or on a leash as the law demands. So much easier to blame the rider.

[RusticCharm]

Yes, kids can be "as small as a pooch", but they tend not to run across the road or sleep in the middle of it. Even in rural areas. 

Kids here are more at risk from cars and trucks driven by drunken Thais.

Your "those who cower from paying taxes due to a developing nation and its many poor" quote I found rather amusing. If you think the taxes we pay on our imported bikes go to helping the poor here, well..er.. as you said, you're "new here".

[nikster]

Anyone who has followed one of their fascinating videos of competitive riding has seen the many curves and hillocks over which their powerful (and marvelously expensive) machines speed in such a way as to be unable to see beyond the capability of their braking (thus the dead dogs).

Eh, no. They don't.

And that should be the end of that ill-informed diatribe.

Maybe you are indeed new to Thailand but dogs sometimes jump out on the road right in front of a bike / car. There's nothing you can do, except try to not crash. They also have the habit of sleeping in the middle of the road. I experienced the crassest example of this recently when my wife was driving our farang-mobile through a village, suitably slowly, maybe 30 km/h or less. Neither of us saw a dog anywhere on the road, yet we suddenly heard a crunch and a loud yelp and behind us, an unfortunate dog was on the road, he eventually got up and made it to the bushes but it didn't look good. That doggie must have literally jumped right in front of the car, in the blind spot behind the bonnet. Or maybe he jumped under our car - I don't know. In any case, there's no way we could have avoided hitting him.

Edited August 7, 2010 by nikster

[Garry]

After reading the OPS article, I now plan to hire a young lady or gent to walk in front of my motorcycle with a red flag for day time riding and a red lantern for night time riding. Hopefully all will be warned before the motrocycle rider is upon them. :jap:

Edited August 7, 2010 by Garry

[harrry]

After reading the OPS article, I now plan to hire a young lady or gent to walk in front of my motorcycle with a red flag for day time riding and a red lantern for night time riding. Hopefully all will be warned before the motrocycle rider is upon them. :jap:

May be an idea if you do. Killing a child here would certainly result in jail even if you did not so much wrong and I for one would not like to live in a Thai prison if they knew I had killed a child.

[Garry]

After reading the OPS article, I now plan to hire a young lady or gent to walk in front of my motorcycle with a red flag for day time riding and a red lantern for night time riding. Hopefully all will be warned before the motrocycle rider is upon them. :jap:

May be an idea if you do. Killing a child here would certainly result in jail even if you did not so much wrong and I for one would not like to live in a Thai prison if they knew I had killed a child.

You know I didn't mean that, stop twisting the statement. Most adult riders including myself will always tend be careful, I doddle through the village and then enjoy the open road depending on what the conditions are. Conditions being animal, vegetable or mineral on the road and what shape or form it is in on the road and where.. Last thing i would want to do is run over a kid, mine or anothers...geez..

[lennya12threh]

But there is a lot of freedom in Thailand. I won't be able to have as much fun and piece of mind at the same time in Canada when I go back.

Speeding back on the main highway going to Bangkok from Nakom Ratchasima, the cars in front of me going 180km/h were getting pulled over by the cops, but the sports bike coming up behind it just rips on through and they don't even look. I also have to admit, I do like to drive where bikes aren't supposed to ride because these tend to be the places where kids and dogs don't exist, and the cops just kind of look at me as I fly by and don't even attempt to stop me because as they start to pull their arm out I'm already 2 seconds away from them and then and not much longer a quarter mile ahead.

The odd time if I I'm going slow and we make more of an exchange of glances I will stop, and then they pocket 100 baht to buy their kids some supper or them self some whiskey.

In Canada, I would never try to run from the cops.

[ScubaBuddha]

A lot of good points have already been made. The comparison between dogs and kids obviously doesn't work, and I think readers will see through that bit of BS easily. Another error the OP has made is the generalizing the comments of one or few, using them to represent a larger group as a whole. I haven't seen this "how to survive running over a dog" thread, if someone can provide the link I would appreciate it.

The title is obviously quite inflammatory and sensationalist to say the least, but I guess that gets people to click the link. It's based on outside surface observations with little understanding of the facts. I definitely take exception to being called a "Child Killer", which is what the OP is implying. An inaccurate label for my riding friends, (many of who are fathers) and I, if there ever was one.

The OP assumes a lot and omits a lot, typical of someone that doesn't understand something. When we ride, (and I will speak of others I ride with as much as my experience and observations of them can allow) we ride to what the conditions allow. Yes that is a subjective thing, but a country road with good visibility, no dogs, people, cars etc. can be driven fast with reasonable safely (IE no children killed).

What the OP surely doesn't know is that sport bike riders ride using a technique called "hyper vigilance". It means that we are constantly evaluating and reevaluating the threats ahead of us and constantly making decisions and adjustments to our speed and position. We think about lane placement, how to obtain the best visibility, and how to best make ourselves visible to others ahead. We constantly assess threats ahead of us, and we communicate with each other if we see a threat emerging ahead. This makes our riding much safer, and it is something you will not find with any other road users in Thailand. Quite the opposite actually.

The general consensus of the sport riding community is that it is safest to ride a little bit faster than the fastest vehicle traffic. That position is officially sanctioned by the California Highway Patrol. In Thailand this often means a little bit faster than the black Fortuners and such that cruise at 150+. I think this may lead some to believe that we are all careless speed daemons. But speed doesn't kill. Bad judgment does. And, as mentioned, sometimes just bad luck. Like last weekend when my mate, while driving the speed limit had an unlicensed, helmetless, crippled and semi-blind (not kidding) older Thai man pop out of a soi and run right into the side of his brand new BMW S1000RR. Those kinds of situations (speeding cars in urban areas, unsafe overtaking, red light running, drunk drivers, helmet less kids) contribute 1000x more too the "Risk of Killing Children" than does a few carefully placed 200kph runs on a deserted road. If you want to write something about risks to children, then write about that.

[andrew55]

OP's made an effort, but ill-considered.

More close calls with pedestrians (why separate kids- emotional value?) at 25kph in BKK on my scooter than north at at 180kph on sporty.

[katabeachbum]

As I have run over some dogs with bike and car since i came to LOS, the day will probably come I run over a kid too. Mostly depending on its parents, if kid is allowed to play on or near a road

It is 99,99% likely this will happen at 25 kmh riding autobike locally, and very unlikely at high speed roads at +160 kmh with Ninja 650R.

[noahvail]

For those who understand, no explanation is necessary. For those who will not understand, no amount of explanation is adequate.

[andrew55]

Are you serious! You're resigned to probably running aver a kid? Stay home on TV for the children's sake...

quote name='katabeachbum' timestamp='1281175380' post='3801057']

As I have run over some dogs with bike and car since i came to LOS, the day will probably come I run over a kid too. Mostly depending on its parents, if kid is allowed to play on or near a road

It is 99,99% likely this will happen at 25 kmh riding autobike locally, and very unlikely at high speed roads at +160 kmh with Ninja 650R.

[neverdie]

I've never seen this thread about running over dogs before either.

I've never hit a dog in Thailand but hit a couple back in my home country, something I would much rather avoid than be proud of.

stange thread.

[katabeachbum]

Are you serious! You're resigned to probably running aver a kid? Stay home on TV for the children's sake...

yes I am realistic and serious

In my over 30 years and millions of km riding bikes, driving cars, trucks and buses I have never hit a human being or a dog before I came to LOS.

In my 7,5 years here and only 400k km I have run over plenty of dogs and been close on several kids. Motorbikes with 4 up entering mainroads without yuilding or even looking at others will probably be the reason, or a 12 year old racing his mums Wave or a 5 year old running after his mum to 7-eleven coming out from a 3 meter wide soi covering entrance to mainroad with concrete fence. Not avoidable. The more I think about it, the more likely I think it will be driving truck at 50 kmh on a main road

Time to take Ninja for an afternoon spin:)

[andrew55]

Guess I've been lucky. Reckon I've got 200k+. Up to Buddha.

[thaicbr]

As much as i don't want to agree with Kata. I find myself doing so. And its NOT due to idiotic riding or driving on my part but other peoples.

You only have to ride or drive here for a short time to realise it could happen.

Also the way some Thai people let their kids play in or at the side of busy roads dohhh . Riding with no lights, Riding overloaded double dohhh.

As for dogs sure as hel_l i'm gonna run it over rather than kill myself trying to avoid it.

Back to the OP. I think that he maybe is a little misguided with his thoughts on sport bike riders. I know a few and i think that on the whole they are paying FAR MORE attention than your average rider and certainly most drivers. It is after all their lives on the line. Also most videos i have seen have been clear roads.

By driving any vehicle there is a risk of accidents. Unfortantly here in Thailand they do not have the concept of road safety, Just take the death toll OVER Songkran as an example.

Edited August 7, 2010 by thaicbr

[neverdie]

Im just amazed that kata could be doing over 400,000km here in just 7.5 years, he must spend all his time driving/riding. Total driving experience, millions of km? really? I thought you were a young man kata, im not sure by your post if you've got 30 years driving history OR if you are 30 odd years old, but millions of kilometres.......& I use to think I drove alot .

The longer I stay here the less I want to drive.

[lennya12threh]

Only time I hit a kid I was going super slow threw the middle of two lanes of cars like everyone does, slower than the others to be careful. Then all of the sudden this kids came running across and didn't even look. I hit him and he got hit infront of of me, pretty hard. Even at 15 km/h that big sports bike packs a punch. He got up and I grabbed him and asked him if he was ok, then he ran away. Strange he wouldn't know to look for bikes before crossing the street. He must of been from some province with no traffic, or running from something and forgot that he was in Bangkok.

Never even came close to hitting someone when driving fast on the highway, except for some idiot crossing the highway to do a u-turn on a scooter, making me slam on the breaks. I just gave that guy a couple of revs as I floated by, and he knew what he did. Wasn't even driving fast then either.

[teddy_bare]

More likely to run a kid over after they are ejected from the car they are travelling in. Seat belt use is worse than helmet use. Most parents seem to think the can hold on to the kid in an accident. YouTube vids seems to prove otherwise. Safety ignorance is prevalent in this and many underdeveloped countries.

[CMX]

I am surprised to understand that some folks are unaware of ThVi postings that are frightening in showing irresponsible driving by bikers. I do not see the value of pointing fingers, but what raised this issue in my mind was a thread that contained statements such as these two, but there are others and videos and photos:

"The occasional dog that doesn't get out of the way gets run over. Fortunately most Thai dogs aren't that big so running them over with a bike really isn't much of a problem."

***I should add that the original included a strategy for avoiding such incidents - one that does not work very well.-CMX

"Just don't brake whilst hitting them; the loss of traction of shredded guts plus locked brakes could be disasterous."

Yes, I'm new in Thailand and am not yet comfortable seeing dogs killed with such regularity and cavalier indifference in order to allow enthusiasts to enjoy racing where people are squirting out of nowhere, even in the countryside and forests. I was taught to drive no faster than I could see to stop. I have always thought that this speed/seeing/stopping ideas were worthwhile. No?

And I was thinking too that someone would suggest that the parents would be to blame, and so someone did. That a biker's inability to stop before hitting a child would be the fault of others seems to me the wrong approach to thinking and it goes, I suggest, to demonstrating the attitude responsible for the danger. (Also, I can guess that no Thai court would see the parent's lapse as contributory.)

On the other hand, who can deny that every biker would drop self and bike to avoid another human? If at all possible. There's the rub.

The issue that troubles this biker is speed, sight, and braking/steering. Do racers ever, or even often, exceed with speed their ability to stop - or direct the crash - on the public highways? Race courses and tracks with limited access are one thing; driving on curving hilly public roads another. Let me propose too that where dogs lie in the streets there are frequently villages.

The rotten thing is that all the denials, all the changing the of subject, shifting ground, all the attributions to motives are avoiding the issue that conduct that would be condemned and punished in the West as being far too risky to life is being enjoyed here, and defended, by those who can get away with it. Hoping for luck. And no, it is not only their business; the answer is jail time.

Edited August 7, 2010 by CMX

[katabeachbum]

Im just amazed that kata could be doing over 400,000km here in just 7.5 years, he must spend all his time driving/riding. Total driving experience, millions of km? really? I thought you were a young man kata, im not sure by your post if you've got 30 years driving history OR if you are 30 odd years old, but millions of kilometres.......& I use to think I drove alot .

The longer I stay here the less I want to drive.

I am 47, started working as travelling salesman at 19 doing more than 100k km a year. Later worked for an upmarket carmaker, doing same km and wrecking some cars during testing. Later had my own car import/export/dealer business, allways enjoyed driving and riding

Here in LOS I have been developing property at the same time in Hua HIn and Phuket 1400km apart roundtrip, doing approx 70k km on one vehicle each year, adding normal driving/riding on other vehicles, 400k km in LOS is quiet accurate so far.

With an average speed of 110 kmh on long trips, its only 3600 hours in 7,5 years. How many hours do you have a year, guessing 4-500?

But I have very few frequent flyer miles in airlines:)

Dont use car/truck much locally, only in heavy rain or when something or someone needs to be transported, prefere bikes, but just did a 9 day roadtrip up north at 3800km pluss a few hundred km on Ninja 650R while up there.

Edited August 8, 2010 by katabeachbum

[neverdie]

Im just amazed that kata could be doing over 400,000km here in just 7.5 years, he must spend all his time driving/riding. Total driving experience, millions of km? really? I thought you were a young man kata, im not sure by your post if you've got 30 years driving history OR if you are 30 odd years old, but millions of kilometres.......& I use to think I drove alot .

The longer I stay here the less I want to drive.

I am 47, started working as travelling salesman at 19 doing more than 100k km a year. Later worked for an upmarket carmaker, doing same km and wrecking some cars during testing. Later had my own car import/export/dealer business, allways enjoyed driving and riding

Here in LOS I have been developing property at the same time in Hua HIn and Phuket 1400km apart roundtrip, doing approx 70k km on one vehicle each year, adding normal driving/riding on other vehicles, 400k km in LOS is quiet accurate so far.

With an average speed of 110 kmh on long trips, its only 3600 hours in 7,5 years. How many hours do you have a year, guessing 4-500?

But I have very few frequent flyer miles in airlines:)

Dont use car/truck much locally, only in heavy rain or when something or someone needs to be transported, prefere bikes, but just did a 9 day roadtrip up north at 3800km pluss a few hundred km on Ninja 650R while up there.

Too funny, I just logged in and you just replied . Well well well, you certainly do drive a fair bit then, wonder how many accidents you have caused (just kidding). You know how it is, I often read or hear people remark how many miles they have travelled over the years, yet when push comes to shove they havent driven that much at all. You seem to be the exception to that rule, hopefully I havent bruised you by asking. As for me, how many hours do I have a year, I don't know, I've never really thought about it, however unfortunately I spent a large part of my career driving (when I would of rathered been flying), so without sitting down and crunching numbers I would be getting up there. As for driving/riding in LOS, that would be much easier for me to work out by knowing how many km's Ive travelled on my few bikes and couple of cars, plus also allowing for the few miles Ive clocked up on or in hire things. Theres absolutely NO WAY Ive done 400k and thats in dribs and drabs over quite a few years, probably half of that, which is honestly enough, its a dangerous world out there .

I had a friends who drove alot, a salesman, a cigarette rep and a courier but it was fairly mundane stuff, whereas the kilometres travelled by me were often done at high speed & were far from boring miles but I also managed to park a couple of them upsdie down and I once also managed to park my car with one half on one side of the road and the other half on the other side. ahhh they were the good old days.

Back on top though, this heading about killing children is a little dramatic because really if you really thought about it, every driver has the chance every time he drives of being in a situation where a child/dog/man or woman could be killed. Every pilot also risks the same situation EVERY TIME he puts the aircraft into the air. Every backyard pool or waterway provides the opportunity for a child to drown, I mean we could apply this to almost everything in life.

ps: edit to say, I agree with the bit of the OP's title where he states in minor text about 'racing' on the open street. Theres alot of that thing that goes on here and the Police seem too pre-occupied with other things to worry about it. Then again, what some people call racing and what others do are two different things, my granny use to say, "Look at these idiots racing" yet it was hard to point out to her that they were not actually racing, just going quicker than her.

Edited August 8, 2010 by neverdie

[katabeachbum]

Im just amazed that kata could be doing over 400,000km here in just 7.5 years, he must spend all his time driving/riding. Total driving experience, millions of km? really? I thought you were a young man kata, im not sure by your post if you've got 30 years driving history OR if you are 30 odd years old, but millions of kilometres.......& I use to think I drove alot .

The longer I stay here the less I want to drive.

I am 47, started working as travelling salesman at 19 doing more than 100k km a year. Later worked for an upmarket carmaker, doing same km and wrecking some cars during testing. Later had my own car import/export/dealer business, allways enjoyed driving and riding

Here in LOS I have been developing property at the same time in Hua HIn and Phuket 1400km apart roundtrip, doing approx 70k km on one vehicle each year, adding normal driving/riding on other vehicles, 400k km in LOS is quiet accurate so far.

With an average speed of 110 kmh on long trips, its only 3600 hours in 7,5 years. How many hours do you have a year, guessing 4-500?

But I have very few frequent flyer miles in airlines:)

Dont use car/truck much locally, only in heavy rain or when something or someone needs to be transported, prefere bikes, but just did a 9 day roadtrip up north at 3800km pluss a few hundred km on Ninja 650R while up there.

Too funny, I just logged in and you just replied . Well well well, you certainly do drive a fair bit then, wonder how many accidents you have caused (just kidding). You know how it is, I often read or hear people remark how many miles they have travelled over the years, yet when push comes to shove they havent driven that much at all. You seem to be the exception to that rule, hopefully I havent bruised you by asking. As for me, how many hours do I have a year, I don't know, I've never really thought about it, however unfortunately I spent a large part of my career driving (when I would of rathered been flying), so without sitting down and crunching numbers I would be getting up there. As for driving/riding in LOS, that would be much easier for me to work out by knowing how many km's Ive travelled on my few bikes and couple of cars, plus also allowing for the few miles Ive clocked up on or in hire things. Theres absolutely NO WAY Ive done 400k and thats in dribs and drabs over quite a few years, probably half of that, which is honestly enough, its a dangerous world out there .

I had a friends who drove alot, a salesman, a cigarette rep and a courier but it was fairly mundane stuff, whereas the kilometres travelled by me were often done at high speed & were far from boring miles but I also managed to park a couple of them upsdie down and I once also managed to park my car with one half on one side of the road and the other half on the other side. ahhh they were the good old days.

Back on top though, this heading about killing children is a little dramatic because really if you really thought about it, every driver has the chance every time he drives of being in a situation where a child/dog/man or woman could be killed. Every pilot also risks the same situation EVERY TIME he puts the aircraft into the air. Every backyard pool or waterway provides the opportunity for a child to drown, I mean we could apply this to almost everything in life.

ps: edit to say, I agree with the bit of the OP's title where he states in minor text about 'racing' on the open street. Theres alot of that thing that goes on here and the Police seem too pre-occupied with other things to worry about it. Then again, what some people call racing and what others do are two different things, my granny use to say, "Look at these idiots racing" yet it was hard to point out to her that they were not actually racing, just going quicker than her.

Neverdie, no bruises:D

The thing is being realistic about kids. Driving Hua Hin - Phuket at 160 kmh I am not likely to hit one, there arent any around, and if there would be I am very focused and can avoid it if enough room. Doing 25-50 kmh around locally it can happen any time, as it has happened with dogs.

[Garry]

Riding and driving in Thailand I've had my fare share of close calls with children, dogs, buffalo's, drunks etc on the roads. I will do what I can to avoid injuring myself or anybody else, but I won't have the mindset of some that want to be bubble boys. Thailand and Oman have definitely honed my skills on aggressive & not so aggressive crash avoidance. Anyone who has done a bike school knows of these methods or similar. I'll keep carrying out my avoidance maneuvers when needed and I will keep enjoying my riding along with it.

[LivinLOS]

You know how it is, I often read or hear people remark how many miles they have travelled over the years, yet when push comes to shove they havent driven that much at all.

For a few years back in my 20's I would put on about 5k kms a week.. You would put 100k on a car over a summer..

[neverdie]

You know how it is, I often read or hear people remark how many miles they have travelled over the years, yet when push comes to shove they havent driven that much at all.

For a few years back in my 20's I would put on about 5k kms a week.. You would put 100k on a car over a summer..

Well I will take your word for that, but thats HUGE km for a long time, given that for a few years (meaning more than two which is a couple) that you put on about 5,000km per week. That would mean for 3 years you did almost 800,000kms, of course in most places theres generally a speed limit of around 100km/h (give or take) and when you drive you are lucky if you can average only 90km/h, therefore you would be driving non stop for approximately 60 hours in every given 168 hours (1 week) & of course once you take into consideration all the other things you need to achieve in the week, such as sleeping, eating, bathing, servicing the vehicle and so forth, you were indeed a VERY busy man.

I believe I have also driven alot but a 100k km and or a million km's is a very long way indeed. In fact in my home country (which is a very vast land) Interstate truck drivers are governed by regulations that restrict how much driving they can do in any given period of time. Now depending on where the person is licenced in that country there is roughly a maxium of 288 hours of driving in any given 28 day period. If you imagined driving on roads where other cars were, road/weather conditions wernt perfect, numerous other delays and considerations its possible that most these drivers only average about 80-85km/h. It would mean they would do no more than about 25,000km per month, in any such case most likely 250k-300k per year as a maxium. Anyone that exceeds these sort of driving km's is really at the extreme end of the game. So indeed to get up around these figures you must be driving a hel_l of a lot. As for a 100,000km's in a Summer, <deleted>, how many seasons do they have where you are from, we have 4, all roughtly 3 months long each, 100,000km in 3 months OMG!

Anyway, I'm probably holding you up from churning out another 5,000kms so i will let you go

[LivinLOS]

I ran a pan european construction company / employment agency with sites ranging from east germany, almost to poland, berlin, on one side and the belgian / french border on another.. Men were paid in cash (I would be carrying 250k - 400k euros in cash weekly) and were visitied every week.

It wasnt consistent year round, it would drop in the winter, but summer months were pure crazy. For a long period when I had a big berlin job, I would be up 4am on a thursday, do anything from 500 - 1000 kms around holland and belgium, go home (south holland) to shower, then drive overnight to berlin, meet the men, get a bar cheque from the client, cash it at his bank, and drive home friday night to get home early hours saturday, munching uppers and coffee and caning down those autobahns. That was a ballpark 2500kms in 48 hours and I did that week in week out for months. Add in the mon / tues starting new men on sites spread all over n europe and those are the kind of miles we put in, my car was my office and I worked 7 days a week 18 hours a day.

Fun times, fast cars, huge money, good game for a young guy.