Enormous Cruise Ship With 2.100 Male Gays...

[LaoPo]

Gay Cruise Ship with 2.100 males...

...arrived in Amsterdam today for the Gay Pride 6-7 August

http://nos.nl/video/...-amsterdam.html VIDEO

&

Amsterdam Gay Pride 2010 gaypride

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCMNrX4uLB4

VIDEO

Impression of the Gay Pride Canal Tour in 2008; amazing images: Happy People VIDEO

LaoPo

[Jingthing]

That's all very nice, but international gay prides are now so corporate and commercial, aren't they? Who owns them? Absolut Vodka or some such? Now here is a REAL gay pride, back from the very edgy "dark ages" , not a corporate sponsor in sight ... Yes, I am PROUD I was in those groundbreaking marches, ha ha, the days of Harvey Milk's San Francisco. Real history, not corporate history.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Jingthing

[bangkokrick]

That's all very nice, but international gay prides are now so corporate and commercial, aren't they? Who owns them? Absolut Vodka or some such? Now here is a REAL gay pride, back from the very edgy "dark ages" , not a corporate sponsor in sight ... Yes, I am PROUD I was in those groundbreaking marches, ha ha, the days of Harvey Milk's San Francisco. Real history, not corporate history.

Nothing is ever Gay enough for you Jing thing is it?

[sibeymai]

Gives a new meaning to the nautical expression "gunkholing".

[Jingthing]

Nothing is ever Gay enough for you Jing thing is it?

Gay schmay, my post had nothing to do with gay enough; it was about soul ...

[Jingthing]

Gives a new meaning to the nautical expression "gunkholing".

Oh, I get it now! Gay cruise ship = anal sex. Stunning originality. You are a very cheeky monkey. Now have a banana ...

Edited August 7, 2010 by Jingthing

[sibeymai]

....bet the captain gets a lot of requests to "swing the compass" (I'll go and have that banana now)

[LaoPo]

I visited the Gay Pride - Gay Parade Canal Tour last year and just watched a documentary about the Parade Saturday afternoon.

It was -again- FANTASTIC, sensational, amazing, colorful and tolerant with around 500,000 people standing along the canals in Amsterdam.....and...it was a rainy day !

It was not commercially promoted by whatever -major- sponsor(s). There were around 100 larger and smaller boats, each one with a different theme.

Some examples:

A boat with the Mayor of Amsterdam - a Police boat (yes...from the Amsterdam Police with gay/lesbians officers), Television channel boats, mentally handicapped gay people on a special boat, Political Party boats, a boat with elderly gay and lesbians, a "Bridal" boat, a boat with gay/lesbians from Eastern European countries, a Boat with African gay/lesbians etc. etc

I could go on and is I can find a Video of the tour of today I will post it in the coming days.

LaoPo

[LaoPo]

A photo is worth a thousands words

Canal Parade 2010:

http://www.parool.nl...010.dhtml#photo (click on Vorige= -previous- or Volgende= -next- to see more photos)

"Audience and participants of the Canal Parade on Saturday the Amsterdam canals. Theme of the boat parade this year was Celebrate.

The canals in Amsterdam on Saturday colored completely pink during the Canal Parade, the highlight of the annual Gay Pride.

Around half past one eighty fur decorated boats left, often scantily clad gay men, lesbians, bisexuals, transsexuals, transgender, transvestites and gay activists on a tour through the canals. The weather was drizzly."

LaoPo

Edited August 8, 2010 by LaoPo

[Jingthing]

Not to be a party pooper, of course it's great that in advanced countries like Holland there can be such a big gay PARTY that pours massive Euros into the local economy, as such events now are mostly about the party and the commercial benefits to the host cities. Nothing wrong at all, well excepting the drug excesses of the circuit party boys, but that's their choice I reckon. Good fun and I have shared in it in other cities. I brought up the history of these events, because the roots of them had little to do with a big party and certainly nothing to do with money. They had to do with fighting oppression. And guess what, today, in large parts of the world, when a small group of gay paraders march down the street in a gay pride action, they are still risking everything, their jobs, their families, their lives. Party on but realize, yes, there is still real meaning to these events in large parts of the world today.

[LaoPo]

Not to be a party pooper, of course it's great that in advanced countries like Holland there can be such a big gay PARTY that pours massive Euros into the local economy, as such events now are mostly about the party and the commercial benefits to the host cities. Nothing wrong at all, well excepting the drug excesses of the circuit party boys, but that's their choice I reckon. Good fun and I have shared in it in other cities. I brought up the history of these events, because the roots of them had little to do with a big party and certainly nothing to do with money. They had to do with fighting oppression. And guess what, today, in large parts of the world, when a small group of gay paraders march down the street in a gay pride action, they are still risking everything, their jobs, their families, their lives. Party on but realize, yes, there is still real meaning to these events in large parts of the world today.

Maybe you think Amsterdam is free of oppression but that wold be a mistake. Homosexuality is still a sensitive subject, even in Amsterdam and gays are still beaten up and discriminated...

Gay couples in various towns around the country have been forced to move out of their homes because of the terror they were facing, mostly by groups of young guys, mainly from North Africa.....

Of course it was a party but what is shown this weekend couldn't have been showed 10-15 years ago so the gay movement is still struggling.

But of course it's not as bad as in many other countries you described, especially in Eastern European countries and 99% of the African continent plus Arabic countries.

But Jingthing, why don't you talk to a few people, organize and talk to the Mayor of Pattaya/Jomtien and organize a Gay Pride in your area?

It would be an enormous success; the tour could start in North Pattaya, along the coast and all the way down to Jomtien.

Instead canal boats you can use trucks, pickup trucks etc.

Success guaranteed and a yearly invasion of Thai- and foreign tourists. It would boom the tourism market but above all, the awareness and acceptance of homosexuality in Thailand and beyond it's borders.

LaoPo

[isanbirder]

Not to be a party pooper, of course it's great that in advanced countries like Holland there can be such a big gay PARTY that pours massive Euros into the local economy, as such events now are mostly about the party and the commercial benefits to the host cities. Nothing wrong at all, well excepting the drug excesses of the circuit party boys, but that's their choice I reckon. Good fun and I have shared in it in other cities. I brought up the history of these events, because the roots of them had little to do with a big party and certainly nothing to do with money. They had to do with fighting oppression. And guess what, today, in large parts of the world, when a small group of gay paraders march down the street in a gay pride action, they are still risking everything, their jobs, their families, their lives. Party on but realize, yes, there is still real meaning to these events in large parts of the world today.

Yes, I admire their courage; I would never have done it. But I fear that gay parades in countries which are generally hostile to gays are counter-productive; the middle-of-the-road straight people whose votes we rely on to get the rights we want will tend to be turned off by gay flamboyance.

But then, I never thought demonstrations achieved much.

And the thought of 2100 gays cooped up together on a cruise ship (can't they cruise on shore?) appals me... the bitching! the scenes!

Edited August 8, 2010 by isanbirder

[LaoPo]

And the thought of 2100 gays cooped up together on a cruise ship (can't they cruise on shore?) appals me... the bitching! the scenes!

You're just jealous

Note:

The cruise started in Copenhagen/Denmark and sailed via Tallinn/Estonia and St. Petersburg/Russia, via Helsinki/Finland, Stockholm/Sweden to Amsterdam/Holland.

Maybe it isn't for you but 2,100 gay men thought different when they booked the -no doubt- expensive cruise....(not for me either)

And: of course they "cruise" onshore in all the harbours they went to; there are large parties everywhere and the "scene" in Amsterdam has to be seen to believe; Parties in the bars, squares and streets everywhere with large stages with live music; especially in the gay concentrated areas of course.

Organized by:

Gay-Travel Atlantis

from:

http://www.queer.de/...rticle_id=11489

EDIT:

They have a Thailand link as well, just discovered, but than again...I'm not a specialist

http://www.gay-thailand.de/

LaoPo

Edited August 8, 2010 by LaoPo

[Jingthing]

1. Dutch gays -- I never said it was a paradise but compared to most countries I am sure it is top of the heap for gay rights. I think you know that too.

2. Demonstrations -- I couldn't disagree with you more that they are useless. The alternative is to do what? Stay in the closet? While I wouldn't do it in Iran where they are murdering gays as part of the law, just showing that we exist is a powerful message that over time does make change. Flamboyance? You are talking about something else entirely, not interested in that discussion personally. Note that demonstrations and gay freedom day parades are not necessarily the same thing. There are demonstrations that occur throughout the year unrelated to gay freedom day parades, and some historic and current gay pride parades are in effect demonstrations. The ONLY WAY over the long term that gays win their rights is for more and more gays to come out of the closet, so that ultimately everyone realizes they have a gay friend or family member. That's how you get majority support for a hated minority.

I offer a case of one incredibly NON-FLAMBOYANT man's life which basically PROVES my point, gay demonstrating is not only useful, it is REQUIRED for any society seeking change towards gay rights.

Gay Is Good

How Frank Kameny changed the face of America

http://www.metroweekly.com/feature/?ak=2341

3. Gay Pattaya. There already are events here. I don't like them much. In any case, I don't think non-Thais have any business at all organizing gay parades in Thailand. They have happened in Bangkok and we all know about the repression of the recent event in Chiang Mai by the fascist red shirt 51 group.

Edited August 8, 2010 by Jingthing

[JohnLeech]

Demonstrations -- ......The alternative is to do what? Stay in the closet? .......gay demonstrating is not only useful, it is REQUIRED for any society seeking change towards gay rights.

"the alternative" ......why does the alternative have to be so black and white? So with me or against me? Can't you be out of the closet and not a demonstrator, "just showing that we exist" in everdyday life?

"REQUIRED"? While it cannot be quantified, I would imagine that at least as much, if not far more, has been achieved in the area of "gay rights" by those who have made no secret of being gay but have been accepted socially and professionally as individuals as by the "gay activists" who have blamed discrimination for every problem they have enountered.

"courage", isanbirder? It takes far more courage to make no secret of being gay (but not necessarily "flamboyant"!) 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, than it does to take part in any parade where there is at least some safety in numbers and where there is at least some police protection - and I am aware that police protection and violence levels vary, but it is usually the police who are on the receiving end more than any demonstrators.

"Iran where they are murdering gays as part of the law" Oh please, not Outrage! and Peter Tatchell again! You can bash Iran for so many things, justifiably and with good reason, but Mahoni and Ascari's execution was not because they were gay.

[endure]

1. Dutch gays -- I never said it was a paradise but compared to most countries I am sure it is top of the heap for gay rights. I think you know that too.

2. Demonstrations -- I couldn't disagree with you more that they are useless. The alternative is to do what? Stay in the closet? While I wouldn't do it in Iran where they are murdering gays as part of the law, just showing that we exist is a powerful message that over time does make change. Flamboyance? You are talking about something else entirely, not interested in that discussion personally. Note that demonstrations and gay freedom day parades are not necessarily the same thing. There are demonstrations that occur throughout the year unrelated to gay freedom day parades, and some historic and current gay pride parades are in effect demonstrations. The ONLY WAY over the long term that gays win their rights is for more and more gays to come out of the closet, so that ultimately everyone realizes they have a gay friend or family member. That's how you get majority support for a hated minority.

I offer a case of one incredibly NON-FLAMBOYANT man's life which basically PROVES my point, gay demonstrating is not only useful, it is REQUIRED for any society seeking change towards gay rights.

The first major change in gay rights in the UK (the 1967 Sexual Offences) came about because of public disquiet over the prosecution of a number of prominent people (Lord Montagu, Peter Wildeblood, Michael Pitt-Rivers and separately, John Gielgud). It was felt that the police were hounding homosexuals as a matter of policy so a Home Office committee chaired by John Wolfenden, the Vice Chancellor or Reading University was set up. The Wolfenden Report eventually led to a change in the law without any demonstrations taking place.

[Jingthing]

The UK had to wait until 1967 to decriminalize homosexuality. Many people went to PRISON in the UK for being gay. The Wolfenden report was in 1957. My conclusion, it was a big mistake NOT to demonstrate. Change would have happened quicker that way.

Apparently there were demonstrations about the laws about unequal age of consent laws, and those laws WERE changed to create equality for gays, which is what these fights are all about, simple equality.

Edited August 8, 2010 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

Here's another country's gay pride parade movement that has helped move things for the better for gay rights (and also Arab Israeli relations, 55555) ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBWiMXEQPcg

Adam Ezekiel, from the Zionist Jewish Group, added: "This is the only gay parade here. In other places, gay people are being hanged. It's very important to ensure our rights and opinions are heard."

Sajron Jegerman, a spokesman for Pride, said: "There are so many people here. Today is a day of freedom, a day to be free.

He added he had heard of no religious opposition to the festival in its run-up and said everything was going "perfectly ok".

He also expressed sadness at the barring of Israeli gay activists from having a float at Madrid Pride.

Mr Jegerman said he was "disappointed" at the clash between politics and human rights but added: "It will not stop us co-operating with them in future for gay rights."

City officials had angrily countered Madrid's perceived snub, with one inviting Madrid officials to visit Tel Aviv Pride in order to meet gay Arabs who could not be open about their sexuality at home.

A moment of silence is to be held later in memoriam of those killed at a Tel Aviv gay meeting last July. Two people were killed and a further 15 were injured when a gunman opened fire on the venue.

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2010/06/11/tel-aviv-pride-kicks-off/ Edited August 8, 2010 by Jingthing

[endure]

The UK had to wait until 1967 to decriminalize homosexuality. Many people went to PRISON in the UK for being gay. The Wolfenden report was in 1957. My conclusion, it was a big mistake NOT to demonstrate. Change would have happened quicker that way.

Your conclusion is wrong. There were many (including the Home Secretary Mawell-Fyfe who was a homophobe and who commissioned the report) who would have used the fact that demonstrations were taking place to crack down even more.

When was homosexuality decriminalised in the USA?

[Jingthing]

The UK had to wait until 1967 to decriminalize homosexuality. Many people went to PRISON in the UK for being gay. The Wolfenden report was in 1957. My conclusion, it was a big mistake NOT to demonstrate. Change would have happened quicker that way.

Your conclusion is wrong. There were many (including the Home Secretary Mawell-Fyfe who was a homophobe and who commissioned the report) who would have used the fact that demonstrations were taking place to crack down even more.

When was homosexuality decriminalised in the USA?

My conclusion is wrong based on your presumption. Waiting until 1967 to avoid prison for being gay is a shameful history. The UK should have done better. Think of the thousands of ruined lives. I truly don't think the fabled British reserve served you well with that one.

In the US, it is state by state so that is impossible to say because it never was criminalized nationally like the UK. However, as a general rule the laws were never nearly as bad as the UK laws.

Edited August 8, 2010 by Jingthing

[endure]

The UK had to wait until 1967 to decriminalize homosexuality. Many people went to PRISON in the UK for being gay. The Wolfenden report was in 1957. My conclusion, it was a big mistake NOT to demonstrate. Change would have happened quicker that way.

Your conclusion is wrong. There were many (including the Home Secretary Mawell-Fyfe who was a homophobe and who commissioned the report) who would have used the fact that demonstrations were taking place to crack down even more.

When was homosexuality decriminalised in the USA?

My conclusion is wrong based on your presumption. Waiting until 1967 to avoid prison for being gay is a shameful history. The UK should have done better. Think of the thousands of ruined lives. I truly don't think the fabled British reserve served you well with that one.

In the US, it is state by state so that is impossible to say because it never was criminalized nationally like the UK. However, as a general rule the laws were never nearly as bad as the UK laws.

On the contrary decriminalisation in the US didn't occur nationwide until 2003 with Lawrence v Texas. The list of states below (which I've stolen from Wiki) shows the state of play at 2003 when Lawrence v Texas was heard by the Supreme Court.

You'll notice that penalties in those states where it was still illegal range from a $500 fine to life imprisonment. The maximum sentence in the UK was 14 years.

You'll also notice that only one state (Illinois) decriminalised it before 1967.

State laws at time of 2003 Supreme Court decision

U.S. Supreme Court decision Lawrence v. Texas (2003) invalidated sodomy laws in the fifty states, the District of Columbia, and Puerto Rico. At that time, the laws stood as follows:

* Alabama — All sodomy acts illegal – affects only unmarried couples.[23][24] Penalty = (1 year/$1,000)

* Alaska (repealed through legislative action 1980)

* Arizona (repealed through legislative action 2001)

* Arkansas — struck down by Jegley v. Picado, 80 S.W.3d 332 (Ark. 2001)

* California (repealed through legislative action 1976)

* Colorado (repealed through legislative action 1972)

* Connecticut (repealed through legislative action 1971)

* Delaware (repealed through legislative action 1973)

* Florida — All sodomy acts illegal. Penalty = (60 days/$500)

* Georgia — struck down by Powell v. Georgia, 510 S.E.2d 18 (1998)

* Hawaii (repealed through legislative action 1973)

* Idaho — All sodomy acts illegal. Penalty = (5 years to life)

* Illinois (repealed through legislative action 1962)

* Indiana (repealed through legislative action 1976)

* Iowa (repealed through legislative action 1978)

* Kansas — Same-Sex sodomy acts illegal. Penalty = (6 months/$1,000)

* Kentucky — struck down by Commonwealth v. Wasson, 842 S.W.2d 487 (Ky. 1992)

* Louisiana — All sodomy acts illegal. Penalty = (5 years/$2,000)[25]

* Maine (repealed through legislative action 1976)

* Maryland — struck down by Williams v. State, 1998 Extra LEXIS 260, Baltimore City Circuit Court, January 14, 1999

* Massachusetts — struck down by GLAD v. Attorney General, SJC-08539 (Mass. Supreme Judicial Ct. 2002)

* Michigan – struck down by Michigan Organization for Human Rights v. Kelley in 1990. Prior law defined sodomy as a felony punishable by up to 15 years imprisonment for a first offense and up to life in prison for repeat offenders. [23][26]

* Minnesota — struck down by Doe v. Ventura, No. MC 01-489, 2001 WL 543734 (Minn. Dist. Ct 2001)

* Mississippi — All sodomy acts illegal. Penalty = (10 years)

* Missouri — Same-Sex sodomy acts illegal. Penalty = (1 year/$1,000), then repealed through legislative action in 2006[27]

* Montana — struck down by Gryczan v. Montana, 942 P.2d 112 (1997)

* Nebraska (repealed through legislative action 1978)

* Nevada (repealed through legislative action 1993)

* New Hampshire (repealed through legislative action 1975)

* New Jersey (repealed through legislative action 1979)

* New Mexico (repealed through legislative action 1975)

* New York — struck down by People v. Onofre, 415 N.E.2d 936 (N.Y. 1980) and repealed by the legislature in 2000.

* North Carolina — All sodomy acts illegal. Penalty = (10 years/discretionary fine)

* North Dakota (repealed through legislative action 1973)

* Ohio (repealed through legislative action 1974)

* Oklahoma — Same-Sex sodomy acts illegal. Penalty = (10 years)

* Oregon (repealed through legislative action 1972)

* Pennsylvania — struck down by Commonwealth v. Bonadio, 415 A.2d 47 (Pa. 1980) and repealed by the legislature in 1995.

* Rhode Island (repealed through legislative action 1998)

* South Carolina — All sodomy acts illegal. Penalty = (5 years/$500)

* South Dakota (repealed through legislative action 1977)

* Tennessee — Struck down in Campbell v. Sundquist, 926 S.W.2d 250 (1996)

* Texas — Same-Sex sodomy acts illegal. Penalty = ($500)

* Utah — All sodomy acts illegal. Penalty = (6 months/$1,000)[28]

* Vermont (repealed through legislative action 1977)

* Virginia — All sodomy acts illegal. Penalty = (1–5 years)

* Washington (repealed through legislative action 1976)

* West Virginia (repealed through legislative action 1976)

* Wisconsin (repealed through legislative action 1983)

* Wyoming (repealed through legislative action 1977)

* District of Columbia (City Council repealed law in 1995; Congress did not veto repeal as it did the first time in 1981)[29]

* Puerto Rico (repealed through legislative action 2005)[30]

[LaoPo]

1. Dutch gays -- I never said it was a paradise but compared to most countries I am sure it is top of the heap for gay rights. I think you know that too.

2. Demonstrations -- I couldn't disagree with you more that they are useless. The alternative is to do what? Stay in the closet?

I didn't write anything about demonstrations or that they would be useless; maybe you confuse my posts with someone else?

LaoPo

[Jingthing]

Unlike the UK, it was VERY RARE for US persons to go to prison for private consensual gay sex in the last century. The UK laws were widely enforced and many people went to prison for years. You are off base here just looking at that raw legal data. Yes, that was a big supreme court case, but actually you are wrong, there never was a federal sodomy law, so the supreme court showed precedent but changed no specific federal law. It was a ruling on a state law. Sorry if this is too complicated for you.

[endure]

Unlike the UK, it was VERY RARE for US persons to go to prison for private consensual gay sex in the last century. The UK laws were widely enforced and many people went to prison for years. You are off base here just looking at that raw legal data. Yes, that was a big supreme court case, but actually you are wrong, there never was a federal sodomy law, so the supreme court showed precedent but changed no specific federal law. It was a ruling on a state law. Sorry if this is too complicated for you.

Don't be patronising. I know full well how the law works in the US. The fact remains that there were states up until 2003 that had life imprisonment as punishment. The fact also remains that the UK decriminalised homosexuality before all but one state in the US.

[Jingthing]

Like I said, you need to look at enforcement. Also, quite spectacularly most of those are about SODOMY which includes heterosexual sex acts. The notorious UK repression laws were specifically targeted at homosexuals. Prostitution is illegal in Thailand. Does it FEEL illegal?

[endure]

Stop wriggling. You know nothing about the 'notorious UK repressions laws'. You weren't there. I was. Homosexuality was decriminalised in the UK in 1967. The US had to wait for 36 years for the same thing to happen.

[Jingthing]

Stop wriggling. You know nothing about the 'notorious UK repressions laws'. You weren't there. I was. Homosexuality was decriminalised in the UK in 1967. The US had to wait for 36 years for the same thing to happen.

Actually I do know about it. Don't be patronizing.

[RabC]

And of course all the US Pride marches did so much for your servicemen.

[Jingthing]

And of course all the US Pride marches did so much for your servicemen.

That's about to happen. Obviously, activism takes on many forms, coming out publicly, focused demonstrations, pride parades, voting, legislation, court battles, lobbying, political action groups, etc. etc.

Edited August 9, 2010 by Jingthing

[Lumumba]

I have thoughts I might wish to express, but I rather not.

Spread the word if it makes the world a better place.