Many Thai Red Shirts Abandoned By Their Leaders: Human Rights Activist

[march]

They haven't provided them with lawyers nor offered to pay bail or even request bail. This is while the multiple, multiple leaders are afforded some of the highest level of attorneys in Thailand. They also provided legal representation for the Red Bombers that were deported by Cambodia. The Red lawyers are numerous and I wouldn't think any of them are concerned one iota about the ramifications of representing Reds. These are high-powered lawyers who likely have multiple caseloads with just the Reds alone for the next decade.

Granted, they aren't always the best, however, as exemplified by putting Thaksin's convicted and imprisoned pastry-box briber lawyer back on the payroll after his sentence was completed. He's not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree.

You have not addressed the points I raised in my original statement. What part of the bank account freezing do you not understand?

I'm guessing you don't understand that the accounts were unfrozen last week.

Who are these high powered lawyers you are refering to? Please name a few of them and the specific reason why they are high powered. There have been enough public statements and actions taken to suggest that there is a concerted effort afoot to discourage legal counsel representation. Don't start making claims as to the "numerous" lawyers available to the redshirts when you haven't the slightest clue as to the current working environment for these lawyers. They are putting their lives and their families lives at risk when they take these cases. You are making your assumptions on what facts? Who are these lawyers that are available?

A cursory search reveals more than a couple of UDD/PTT/Thaksin lawyers would be available to defend these lower level Reds as they've been involved in other cases defending the hierarchy of the Reds:

Khamnuan Chalopathm

Winyat Chatmontri

Thanadet Puangpoon

Udom Prongfa

Peera Limcharoen

Boonsong Termwat

Noppadon Pattama

Phichit Chuenban

Somporn Pongsuwan

Vichai Tongtaeng

Anek Khamchum

with a couple of international lawyers thrown in for good measure, such as Canadian Robert Amsterdam and Dutchman Geert-Jan Knoops.

I would consider them high-powered by the fact that some of them were hired by the richest Thai in the world and were hired in cases with billions of baht at stake. I doubt with that much at stake, that they would hire a young recent grad of Rajabhat Institute.

Why do think "they and their families lives are at stake"? Have there been death threats made against any of these lawyers that I'm unaware of? The only death threats I recall lately were those issued to the writer who dissected Amsterdam's twisted propaganda piece and the head of the police outfit that is investigating the Reds.

[march]

People shouldn't be surprised about this. The reds have history of abandoning their people. The torpedo was left to rot and even complained about it. At one point the taxi driver leader was left unable to sort out bail until bizarrely Newin did it for him. The bombers returned from Cambodia are widely seen as having been set up by their own.

Thanks for the historical references as they have abandoned their "workers" on a number of occasions previously. Same with Giles. Despite his donning the Red Shirt and making his speeches on their stage, I don't see the UDD rushing to defend his legal foibles (not that it's really needed given his own elite background). For a further example, you could even slot in the calls for action from abroad that invariably led to that speaker's family being whisked away from Thailand just prior to the date called for.

The Shinawatra clan have racked up a number of air mileage on these excursions at the crucial moment and is a further case of, "it's good enough for you to get hurt doing my bidding, but it's certainly not ok for my precious Oak."

[Huey]

I am appalled by the responses that I see here. Most of the commentary is concerned only with red bashing and cynicism. These are human beings with lives and families, who are being held without charges or due process for the most part.

Is there no concern about their sufffering, their family suffering, their dignity ? -- or even their actual life itself ? Granted, many may be guilty of doing wrong, or following the wrong path towards their goals -- we do not know if most are guilty of any wrong-doing.

The red 'organization' has abandoned them ( if it was ever capable of helping them ), but the government is completely culpable here also --- they have incarcerated these people without any concern for their welfare, and abandoned them.

I have not seen one offer of help or visits from the posters here -- nor even any sympathy for their plight -- no concern whatever -- only bashing and accusations -- I remind you that these people, although Thai, are your brothers and sisters in this country . We do not know their guilt or inncocence -- we only know their suffering.

This looks more and more like Myanmar every day.

Terrorists are human beings as well. I'm just not the one for a ton of sympathy for them. They took money to kill people, burn, loot and attacked the capitol and the military. They are getting what they have coming. I only hope that Taxsin see's the worst of it.

[Siripon]

Interchangeable and same-same

A bit too easy answer. There has been an legitimate, grassroots organization striving for self-entitlement of the rural poor. It's only with the 'activities in 2009 / 2010 that UDD and red's may have become synonyms, I assume.

There are a number of grassroots organizations working on behalf of the rural poor. Many of the UDD leadership have in the past participated in suppressing these, as they are a threat to the provincial strongmen and local faction leaders (also the UDD leadership) dominance of the rural poor.

TH

Very very true.

And something many forget is that when Thaksin came to power one of the first things he did was destroy many long running traditional grassroots groups, that had campaigned on issues and not for or against any particular party, and replace them with his own creations.

The Forum of the Poor and the Pak Moon dam activists soon found Thaksin had no time for them once he gained power, only time for a once off photo shoot with him sharing somtam and chopped beef on a mat with them.

[animatic]

Probably a moot point, but are these fugitives 'reds' or 'UDD'? I may be mistaken, but I tend to see 'reds' as the original pro-entitlement protesters and UDD as organized to bring back our beloved leader K. Thaksin.

Reds = UDD

UDD = Reds

Interchangeable and same-same

A bit too easy answer. There has been an legitimate, grassroots organization striving for self-entitlement of the rural poor. It's only with the 'activities in 2009 / 2010 that UDD and red's may have become synonyms, I assume.

There are a number of grassroots organizations working on behalf of the rural poor. Many of the UDD leadership have in the past participated in suppressing these, as they are a threat to the provincial strongmen and local faction leaders (also the UDD leadership) dominance of the rural poor.

TH

Spot on.

[animatic]

People shouldn't be surprised about this. The reds have history of abandoning their people. The torpedo was left to rot and even complained about it. At one point the taxi driver leader was left unable to sort out bail until bizarrely Newin did it for him. The bombers returned from Cambodia are widely seen as having been set up by their own.

Thanks for the historical references as they have abandoned their "workers" on a number of occasions previously. Same with Giles. Despite his donning the Red Shirt and making his speeches on their stage, I don't see the UDD rushing to defend his legal foibles (not that it's really needed given his own elite background). For a further example, you could even slot in the calls for action from abroad that invariably led to that speaker's family being whisked away from Thailand just prior to the date called for.

The Shinawatra clan have racked up a number of air mileage on these excursions at the crucial moment and is a further case of, "it's good enough for you to get hurt doing my bidding, but it's certainly not ok for my precious Oak."

They are perfectly happy to discretely encourage people to wind up on the monarchy,

and then pretend they don't exist when they go a phrase or concept too far.

It serves their purpose, as long as they don't personally get publicly labeled as

against the king, in the eyes,of most Thai people. Despicable conduct to be sure.

[rubl]

Interesting to read about those 'many Thai red shirts abandoned by their leaders' and in another thread on those leaders 'Red-shirt attorney Karom Pontaklang called on prosecutors to question 120 more witnesses and review material evidence he submitted today.'. Everyone really too busy right now I guess. Just relax and enjoy the free food, your time will come.

As I mentioned in an earlier reply, time to read 'Animal Farm' again.

[tigermonkey]

People shouldn't be surprised about this. The reds have history of abandoning their people. The torpedo was left to rot and even complained about it. At one point the taxi driver leader was left unable to sort out bail until bizarrely Newin did it for him. The bombers returned from Cambodia are widely seen as having been set up by their own.

Thanks for the historical references as they have abandoned their "workers" on a number of occasions previously. Same with Giles. Despite his donning the Red Shirt and making his speeches on their stage, I don't see the UDD rushing to defend his legal foibles (not that it's really needed given his own elite background). For a further example, you could even slot in the calls for action from abroad that invariably led to that speaker's family being whisked away from Thailand just prior to the date called for.

The Shinawatra clan have racked up a number of air mileage on these excursions at the crucial moment and is a further case of, "it's good enough for you to get hurt doing my bidding, but it's certainly not ok for my precious Oak."

They are perfectly happy to discretely encourage people to wind up on the monarchy,

and then pretend they don't exist when they go a phrase or concept too far.

It serves their purpose, as long as they don't personally get publicly labeled as

against the king, in the eyes,of most Thai people. Despicable conduct to be sure.

This is really steering this thread too far off couse -- the thread is about the lack of assistance for the rank and file reds who have been accused of wrongdoing. They are only accused of something, as yet underfined, under the emergency decree -- not charged ! ..and they are held withour charges.

So far in this thread they have been CONVICTED of everything from looting to arson to terrorism to murder --- now you add destruction of the monarchy to the list . They are merely accused of something -- we do not know what , except for the 16 year old in Chiang Rai who is accused of unfurling a banner.

This is hate mongering at its worst .

Edited August 9, 2010 by tigermonkey

[march]

Interesting to read about those 'many Thai red shirts abandoned by their leaders' and in another thread on those leaders 'Red-shirt attorney Karom Pontaklang called on prosecutors to question 120 more witnesses and review material evidence he submitted today.'. Everyone really too busy right now I guess.

Is this the beginning of the "civil war" that was mentioned a few months ago, only this time it's the Rich, Elite Reds versus the Poor Reds? It surely qualifies at least for a "double standard" within the organization in terms of where the Reds resources are expended.

[KhaoNiaw]

The Forum of the Poor and the Pak Moon dam activists soon found Thaksin had no time for them once he gained power, only time for a once off photo shoot with him sharing somtam and chopped beef on a mat with them.

Not to mention the murder of local activists who were involved in grassroots campaigns against business people with connections to the dear leader (allegedly).

Edited August 9, 2010 by KhaoNiaw

[animatic]

People shouldn't be surprised about this. The reds have history of abandoning their people. The torpedo was left to rot and even complained about it. At one point the taxi driver leader was left unable to sort out bail until bizarrely Newin did it for him. The bombers returned from Cambodia are widely seen as having been set up by their own.

Thanks for the historical references as they have abandoned their "workers" on a number of occasions previously. Same with Giles. Despite his donning the Red Shirt and making his speeches on their stage, I don't see the UDD rushing to defend his legal foibles (not that it's really needed given his own elite background). For a further example, you could even slot in the calls for action from abroad that invariably led to that speaker's family being whisked away from Thailand just prior to the date called for.

The Shinawatra clan have racked up a number of air mileage on these excursions at the crucial moment and is a further case of, "it's good enough for you to get hurt doing my bidding, but it's certainly not ok for my precious Oak."

They are perfectly happy to discretely encourage people to wind up on the monarchy,

and then pretend they don't exist when they go a phrase or concept too far.

It serves their purpose, as long as they don't personally get publicly labeled as

against the king, in the eyes,of most Thai people. Despicable conduct to be sure.

This is really steering this thread too far off couse -- the thread is about the lack of assistance for the rank and file reds who have been accused of wrongdoing. They are only accused of something, as yet underfined, under the emergency decree -- not charged ! ..and they are held withour charges.

So far in this thread they have been CONVICTED of everything from looting to arson to terrorism to murder --- now you add destruction of the monarchy to the list . They are merely accused of something -- we do not know what , except for the 16 year old in Chiang Rai who is accused of unfurling a banner.

This is hate mongering at its worst .

I was speaking directly of those doing the abandoning of underlings when their usefulness is at an end.

And I don't remember anyone saying they have been convicted except you.

Edited August 9, 2010 by animatic

[rubl]

We read almost daily that lawyers, PTP MPs and others are filing a bail request again for the detained UDD leaders. No news on their underlings, I guess? Still too busy with 19 leaders to have time for 300+ others who may start to wonder how they got into this ?

[Buchholz]

Three Red-Shirt Members Released Temporarily

Three red shirt members have been temporarily released on bail paid for by a fund.

Meanwhile, the Rights and Liberties Protection Department will seek to help the 50 other inmates who want to request bails.

Rights and Liberties Protection Department Director-General Suwana Suwanchuta said the Justice Fund has agreed to allocate money to bail out three of red shirt members who have been charged with a breach of the Emergency Degree.

Thiradet Sangkhatat and Sommai Inthanakha were set free temporarily with 60,000 baht each, while Boonyarit Sodakam was bailed out with assets worth 200,000 baht as he was also indicted for possession of weapons.

Meanwhile, the request for the release of two more red-shirt members are being considered by the court.

The Director-General went on to say that she will have a talk to Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to deliver help to 48 people who have been detained for violating laws involving security during the April bloody protest.

She said her department is examining the eligibility of those who request bail.

-- Tan Network 2010-11-10

[Buchholz]

Monies depleted from the Justice Ministry's Rights and Liberties Protection Department's Justice Fund will not be available for the other people its designated for (from the Ministry's website):

Assisting victims of crimes

Provide financial assistance for innocent injured persons and victims in criminal cases as provided by the governing law

Protect witnesses in criminal cases in accordance with the Witness Protection Act

[ianbaggie]

there exists a double standard as detained red-shirt leaders have received a lot of support but many ordinary red shirts do not.

But surely the whole point of the red shirt movement was to get rid of double standards - this is absolute conclusive proof that the red shirt movement is NOTHING to do with democracy - only to serve Thaksins interests and bring back the criminal to take revenge on those forced to throw him out for his corrupt, dictatorial ways - NO im sorry the red shirt movement, their people, their leadership, the PTP and their puppetmaster is rotten to its murdering lying core - there is nothing else to consider in this thread.

[Buchholz]

In the other paper, the Red Shirt lawyer said that there are 100 Red Shirt protesters due to be released from prison soon.

Not because the Red Shirt Leaders have obtained their release or secured their bail or anything that organization had done, but because they are finishing up their prison sentences.

Red Shirts went to a prison today for the release of one of them, but when they arrived, they learned he had already been released.

Edited November 11, 2010 by Buchholz

[tomhuayyai]

However the red shirts/UDD are not a credibe force to generate real discusionor action. None of the red shirt leaders have even given a detailed presentation to their (paid) followers about democracy etc etc. None of their leaders have evenb taken part in a moderated debate, etc etc etc. They are nothing more than ruthless no morals low life who would do anything, use anybody as needed to get a big personal payout. It's well established that their leaders are on a 100million BAht payout (each) if they can reinstall the paymaster.

Sorry to show my ignorance - just how is it 'well established that their leaders are on a 100million BAht payout (each)'?

[Buchholz]

I guess the abandonment by the Red Shirt Leaders is now complete. The government, and not the Red Shirt Leaders, secured the bail for the Red worker bees and once let out of confinement, they don't go to see Jatuporn or Veera, instead they...

Released Red-shirt Suspects Meet PM

Two red shirt members under prosecution for violating emergency law meet with the prime minister after being released on bail paid for by the government.

Two red-shirt supporters, who have been charged with a breach of the Emergency Degree, have been bailed out this morning following the court's approval for the Justice Ministry's request for their temporary release.

The two then met with Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva at Parliament.

Sommai Intanaka, one of those released, disclosed that he was notified of the prime minister's request to meet with him after the premier learned that he and his friend have not been provided legal assistance in their defense.

The red-shirt member further said the premier assured him of the government's policy to help those who have never been given legal aid, easing his concern for other fellow red shirt members who remain jailed.

Sommai was arrested when he participated in a red shirt rally at Lumpini Park on May 15 for violating the Emergency Decree.

He was released with the Justice Ministry's help after spending six months in jail.

-- Tan Network 2010-11-11

Edited November 11, 2010 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

Red Shirts released from jail meet PM

BANGKOK, Nov 11 -- Two anti-government Red Shirt supporters released on bail met Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva on Thursday after serving a six-month jail term for violating the emergency decree during the extended Red Shirt protest in May.

Sommai Inthanaka, 32, one of the two Red Shirt prisoners meeting the prime minister, was arrested at Lumpini Park in Bangkok on May 15 and was sentenced to a one-year imprisonment without suspension.

After serving six months in jail, he was granted bail by the Justice Ministry to fight the case in the Court of Appeals and was released from Klong Prem Central Prison on Thursday.

Mr Sommai said after meeting with the prime minister at Parliament that Mr Abhisit will help all of those arrested during April-May Red Shirt protest.

Meanwhile, some 30 Red Shirt supporters on Thursday gathered at Klong Prem Central Prison around 8.30am to welcome their comrade Wissanu Kamolman who was due to be set free Thursday morning after he completed serving a six-month jail term.

However, the Red Shirts were disappointed as Mr Wissanu had earlier left the prison at 7.15am.

The anti-government Red Shirts -- the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) -- who are also supporters of former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, ousted in 2006, intensified their movement's protest in Bangkok in March this year, demanding that prime minister Abhisit Vejjajiva call a snap election. The protesters moved to encamp at Ratchaprasong, the capital’s most exclusive business and shopping area on April 3, forcing major shopping malls and business offices in nearby high rises to close.

-- TNA 2010-11-11

[Robby nz]

Monies depleted from the Justice Ministry's Rights and Liberties Protection Department's Justice Fund will not be available for the other people its designated for (from the Ministry's website):

Assisting victims of crimes

Provide financial assistance for innocent injured persons and victims in criminal cases as provided by the governing law

Protect witnesses in criminal cases in accordance with the Witness Protection Act

It is s real shame that money earmarked for helping those in need as per the quote had to go to bailing out the reds.

And the shame of course is on the red leaders who never lifted a finger to help any of those who are being bailed or released.

We must hope that it gets through to them that it was the Govt who had to come to their assistance when their brave "I will take responsability" leaders abandoned them.

[Robby nz]

And now we have:

Red shirt sues the PM against a charge on its members

BANGKOK, 11 November 2010 (NNT)-The red shirt’s lawyer has file a lawsuit against Prime Minister Abisit Vejjajiva and government officials claiming that they have wrongfully taken legal action against the red-shirt and arrested many of its members.

Mr. Karom Poltaklang (คารม พลทกลาง), the lawyer, said the lawsuits had already been filed against the Prime Minister, the Director of the DSI : Tarit Pengdit (ธาริต เพ็งดิษฐ์), and policemen involving in the crackdown on the red shirts earlier this year.

According to the lawyer, the lawsuits came in light of irregularities found in the legal process which the defendants had taken against the red shirts. He added that since the bloody crackdown on the anti-government rally, the autopsies of the 89 deceased red shirt members have been unusually slow.

Mr. Karum has expressed his opinion that it is not too late to fight back by legal means since the Court has not made the final ruling in the cases filed by the DSI yet.

Wouldnt it be nice if some of the money being spent on this and other stupid actions, like the case we are told K Jataporn is taking to the international court, could have been spent on helping those reds really in need.

If that had been the case it is likely many of them would have been out earlier.

[phiphidon]

Keep an eye out for a new book called 'Guarded Conversations' which parodies the antics of 'Sintax' (guess who?) and the people he conspires with to trample the peons.

Would that be the ebook that you've written? I've heard a lot about it on this forum.

[Asa]

Don't the detainees have right to food, clothes, medical care, and shelter? If the basic right had been denied to them, then is it the Red Shirts or the state agencies' duty to see to it first hand.

Edited November 12, 2010 by Asa

[whybother]

Don't the detainees have right to food, clothes, medical care, and shelter? If the basic right had been denied to them, then is it the Red Shirts or the state agencies' duty to see to it first hand.

They are being sheltered. In jail.

[Buchholz]

Don't the detainees have right to food, clothes, medical care, and shelter? If the basic right had been denied to them, then is it the Red Shirts or the state agencies' duty to see to it first hand.

Not heard any reports of starving, naked, dying, un-sheltered Red detainees.

Only about those languishing in jails because of their abandonment by the rich, elite Red Shirt Leaders who won't part with a few baht for their bail.

[Buchholz]

Most red-shirt detainees too poor to seek release, says report

Most of the red-shirt supporters in jail are garbage collectors, homeless people, and the mentally ill who cannot seek legal help or find enough money for bail. The People’s Centre for Information (PCI) revealed its initial investigation on the April-May crackdowns yesterday.

It collected information about 169 red-shirt protesters who are now under detention in the provinces of Maha Sarakham, Ubon Ratchathani, Udon Thani, Khon Kaen, Mukdahan, Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai over charges of taking part in illegal gatherings as well as arson or terrorism.

PCI discovered that most of the detained red shirts could not find lawyers or enough money for bail. Most of the detainees are garbage collectors, homeless people, and people with mental health problems.

Some of the detainees were coerced into confessing to crimes of arson or terrorism, while some were told to pay more than Bt1 million in bail.

Meanwhile, the National Human Rights Commission revealed that about 180 red-shirt protesters are in jail, with some suffering from health problems and some needing to continue their education. Most of them do not have access to legal aid.

Krittiya Achavanichkul, a member of PCI, said there was not enough evidence for police to detain the red-shirt protesters and that some were tortured into signing confessions. She called on the government to release the detained red-shirt protesters because the Constitution gives them the right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty. The authorities have already released some protesters under the caveat that they will be put behind bars again if they violate any regulations. This condition is believed to be a tool to suppress opposition.

-- The Nation 2010-11-19

Edited November 20, 2010 by Buchholz

[rubl]

Interesting mix of incarcerated red-shirts upcountry. I guess it was low season, school's out, etc. April / May.

For the obvious cases the best the government can do is a special court session to push through the accused and let them go, unconditionally.

[Buchholz]

Hopefully, the mentally ill Reds will get help once they are released.

[phiphidon]

Hopefully, the mentally ill Reds will get help once they are released.

More likely that the garbage collectors, homeless and mentally ill were just caught up in the SOE roundups that took place and are nothing to do with the redshirts. Still don't let that get in the way of an unsubstantiated claim.

[whybother]

Hopefully, the mentally ill Reds will get help once they are released.

More likely that the garbage collectors, homeless and mentally ill were just caught up in the SOE roundups that took place and are nothing to do with the redshirts. Still don't let that get in the way of an unsubstantiated claim.

There have been several people in jail who say they were "just caught up in the SOE". Some of them said they had been going to the rallies, but (conveniently) not at the time they were caught. One was "directing traffic" and another had been there to "convince his brother to go home".