Farangs Calling Thai'S Racist...

[moe666]

'Racism'?

I am not wasting my time here.

Good idea. A subject that brings out the worst.

[Hawkup2000]

There's a couple in Soi Thanya before Patpong, some more in Soi-33 etc.

Some other bars ban arabs, others ban indians and the list goes on.

My best best frined is japanese and he brought me to some clubs in Thaynia. Totally different settings in those clubs. For 1000 Baht in "entrance fee" you can drink how much Shōchū as you like. I guess they regretted to let a thirsty cheap charlie farang in on the premises.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Hawkup2000

[Johpa]

The OP's thesis is that an individual cannot be racist if s/he has not been 'indoctrinated with western history' or s/he doesn't know what racism is.

Yes I also picked up that hint of naivete that often results from over exposure to post-modernist blather lathered onto impressionable minds in institutions of higher learning throughout the Occident. Also, the OP has clearly lived a rather closeted life in Thailand if they have not encountered any racism. That being said, the vast majority of Thais do not seem to have any issues with white folks. The numbers change a bit in regards to black folks and escalate dramatically when talking of either Burmese or highland minorities.

And to further debunk the western basis of racism, the OP could read about the African students who rioted in Beijing a few decades ago to protest the over racism in that country.

[JiveTalker]

What are you jabbering on about today? Tactics? What are your tactics? Should I compose a set of tactics before I sit down to surf the Internet?

I'll call a Thai racist if he is racist. I'll call a foreigner racist if he is racist. I've met plenty in equal measures. Ignorance is no excuse for racism either. I don't really know why you feel the need to generalize people based on one quote or point of view. You shouldn't try so hard to shoehorn people into a particular box just because they don't share your viewpoint.

And for those of you that believe multiculturalism doesn't work, it does. It's worked in places all around the world for many years. Deal with it, it's here to stay.

[Jingthing]

Another comment about so called positive racism. That can be hurtful also, surprisingly enough. For example, Asian students in the US are positively stereotyped as being good at science/good at math, etc. How do you think that makes Asians who aren't and want to be oil painters feel? I am sure ANNOYED at the very least.

[yogi100]

What are you jabbering on about today? Tactics? What are your tactics? Should I compose a set of tactics before I sit down to surf the Internet?

I'll call a Thai racist if he is racist. I'll call a foreigner racist if he is racist. I've met plenty in equal measures. Ignorance is no excuse for racism either. I don't really know why you feel the need to generalize people based on one quote or point of view. You shouldn't try so hard to shoehorn people into a particular box just because they don't share your viewpoint.

And for those of you that believe multiculturalism doesn't work, it does. It's worked in places all around the world for many years. Deal with it, it's here to stay.

If you call one culture tolerating another it does work. One culture living in harmony with another is not always so common. Recent events around the world between those of different religions, tribes and nationalities would suggest that it is far from being here to stay. Look at Sierra Leone, Ruanda, Iran, Iraq, 9/11, 7/7, Madrid, Moscow, Chechnia, the old Yugoslavia as just a few examples of where it has not been too successful.

[wolf5370]

There are some Thai only and other limited access places around, but I don't have a problem with that. If Thailand had a law saying white people are not allowed in bars or black people can't go to temples or whatever, then I would say it was racist. However, if a bar sets up to cater for the culture of a set of people and thus attracts said peoples, then they do not want to loose their niche market by multiculturalising it. People have a choice to go or not to go - its choice that is the difference in institutional racism.

Individual racism is something entirely different, and although as a pool group we are fairly biased towards multiculturalism (else we wouldn't be here, yes?) , everywhere there are people who harbour discriminatary thoughts. Its usually lack of education (about the culture targeted) or envy or brainwashing (from certain groups with their own agendas).

Here in Thailand, the nationalistic indoctrination (fear of empire building? especially those in power) and biased media does a fairly good job of supporting the them-and-us ethos too. Thailand has be brought nup in modern times on a blame culture - finding who is to blame - and its much better for the nationalistic message to make sure the buck stops externally (anywhere but here) - just look how much coverage the one farang at the BKK riots got and how the Thai media instantly labelled the black clad men as Cambodians.

[GuestHouse]

Where are these 'many millions of happily married interracial couples around the world' then? The US, Europe, China, India, Russia, the Middle East, Outer Mongolia? I live in London, probably the most multicultural city in Europe and possibly the world. There are approximately 130 different languages in use in the Metropolis and you might see a handful of mixed marriages, very few of which endure. Most people I've seen appear to select their matrimonial partners from within their own ethnic group.

As a Londoner you will of course be aware that almost all the 'White British Londoners' are only a couple of generations off the boat from Germany, France, Ireland, Hungary - anywhere where there has been war, civil strife of famine in the past two or three hundred years.

They've intermarried and while you can spot racial traits that indicate individuals ancestry they have all become White British Londoners.

Look back at the history of immigration to London and you'll find plenty of examples of the latest immigrants being singled out as a threat or as not having assimilated, two or three generations down the line they take their turn pointing their finger at the newest arrivals.

[wolf5370]

What are you jabbering on about today? Tactics? What are your tactics? Should I compose a set of tactics before I sit down to surf the Internet?

I'll call a Thai racist if he is racist. I'll call a foreigner racist if he is racist. I've met plenty in equal measures. Ignorance is no excuse for racism either. I don't really know why you feel the need to generalize people based on one quote or point of view. You shouldn't try so hard to shoehorn people into a particular box just because they don't share your viewpoint.

And for those of you that believe multiculturalism doesn't work, it does. It's worked in places all around the world for many years. Deal with it, it's here to stay.

If you call one culture tolerating another it does work. One culture living in harmony with another is not always so common. Recent events around the world between those of different religions, tribes and nationalities would suggest that it is far from being here to stay. Look at Sierra Leone, Ruanda, Iran, Iraq, 9/11, 7/7, Madrid, Moscow, Chechnia, the old Yugoslavia as just a few examples of where it has not been too successful.

All your examples are of countries that are very poor and/or under very several autocracies (or simular forms of government) - poor means lack of education and a need to blame and envy others and autocratic governments fear everything, so make imagined enemies to redirect internal hate and misdirect blame.

True harmony will never truley be achieved (if ever) until all countries and people have a somewhat similar expectation of life - almost a communist utopia is required, I guess. Until science banishes poverty, ill-health and over population and freedom of movement and trade are global and all people have the ability to rise to any position in life, then there will still be exceptions - as rich countries make other countries rich and people lift their heads and become educated, fed and can improve their lives, it will get better (and has - think of pre-war Germany or Japan - or China just a decade or so ago).

[wolf5370]

Where are these 'many millions of happily married interracial couples around the world' then? The US, Europe, China, India, Russia, the Middle East, Outer Mongolia? I live in London, probably the most multicultural city in Europe and possibly the world. There are approximately 130 different languages in use in the Metropolis and you might see a handful of mixed marriages, very few of which endure. Most people I've seen appear to select their matrimonial partners from within their own ethnic group.

As a Londoner you will of course be aware that almost all the 'White British Londoners' are only a couple of generations off the boat from Germany, France, Ireland, Hungary - anywhere where there has been war, civil strife of famine in the past two or three hundred years.

They've intermarried and while you can spot racial traits that indicate individuals ancestry they have all become White British Londoners.

Look back at the history of immigration to London and you'll find plenty of examples of the latest immigrants being singled out as a threat or as not having assimilated, two or three generations down the line they take their turn pointing their finger at the newest arrivals.

The government of the 70's made huge mistakes in London. With the influx of immigrants (invited over from the commonwealth to rake up jobs is transport, NHS, and so on) the gov created ghettos. I was born in East London (yep a Cockney) and in my street growing up everyone knew every one. My next door neighbours were black (Caribbean) and I spent many days in their with my best friend (their daughter) and being fed things I'd never eaten before like fried bananas. Then came the decision by the gov to provide homes for the imported (and make no mistake they were imported - attracted to the UK intentionally by the government) immigrants from Bangladesh, Pakistan and India. Within just a year all the council houses in the area (most of our road were privately owned or rented) were taken by these families. Essex and Kent saw a large increase of East Enders moving away. My balck friend and her family were the first to move in our street. A year later only one family remained (we had moved out too by then). There was no chance for them to integrate and the massive culture shock it brought to locals was too much to bear. Knife fights were common as were pets going missing (being eaten was blamed?) teenagers deficating in the streets, and so on. This is no lie, I was there, I saw it. Later in places like Birmingham they did it much better and immigrants integrated much better. In London there are still whole areas (White Chappel/Bow/Mile end/etc) where English is a third language (and not known by many) and white faces are treated with suspicion. Schools run froim the public purse where English is taught as a foreign language and lessons are in Urdu. Even signs only written in Urdu script.

Outside of the East End, money and house prices have caused a similar ghettoisation (though at the other end of the scale so less obvious impact) - with parts on the West End being almost completely owned by Saudi/UAE/ME and wealthy Chinese.

In the other areas, there is integration. There are mixed marriages and friendships.

[elkangorito]

Normal Thai's just have not been indoctrinated with western history. They don't know about slavery in America. Or Apartheid in South Africa. Heck, most don't even know about Nazi Germany and what happened to the Jews. Even if they know about it, they don't understand the true horror that went on. You can't blame them. Reading about this sort of stuff as opposed to being immersed in the culture that practiced it is not the same thing. So calling a Thai person a "racist" is pretty close to meaningless.

You are correct. All Thai people can't be blamed for being denied the history of their neighbours on this planet.

But doesn't Buddhism say something about this 'racism' thing? Maybe someone can 'enlighten' me?

[jackr]

Op is trollish or just off the boat but clearly off-tangent with the thinking that Thais calling farangs farangs is not being racist, yet neglecting to acknowledge the real issue. Spend time among the masses remarking on their neighbours and tanned folk and you'll see how non-racist they are. Anyhow, would be better off labelling thread 'Thai's calling farangs farangs is not being racist' if just covering that angle.

[Jingthing]

I had a funny experience recently. I was talking to some Thai people trying to identify one Thai from another one that I was referring to (not in the room). Someone said THE BLACK ONE? I had to say, I don't know! I had never really noticed which of the two Thais was the darker skinned one.

[surayu]

Berkshire your statement: "In order for the term "racist" to have any sort of meaningful impact, there has to be an historical context" it's a complete nonsense which is perfectly in line with the rest of this topic you started, however i like to add that i am also not surprised.....

[surayu]

Maybe someone can 'enlighten' me?

[yellow1red1]

OP

ask the next 10 Thais you meet, yes or no only, Do you like blacks? yes or no

Then read worker wanted ads in any Thai paper. Draw a line through ones that contain, age, sex or race discrimination.

Then read up on how past PM's, and Others, called the Chinese, the 'jews of the East' and established laws discriminating them. That has been reversed in modern days, of course, with the Chinese Thais now the upper class.

Finally, in a perverted way, Thais are racist against themselves by using whitening cream and swallowing whitening pills. How idiotic, if not racist, is it to try to change one's skin color? how spell self mutilation due racial color?

How many women politicians are there compared to western ratio?

and Thais encourage Thais moving to Europe to keep Thai citizen, even new baby born there, but Immigrate to Thailand and you have to give up other passport. double standard thinking

Edit Berkshire has to write an essay to 4 dozens responses, or rofl at succes of Troll comment.. which one?

Edited August 10, 2010 by yellow1red1

[IanForbes]

All I can add is....... Him bad. Me good. :lol:

Same old generalization stereotyping topic.

[MidoriApple]

Pfff..I guess it is time for ThaiVisa to put the "Farangs' definition" as one of pinned thread. Been here for more two years, I think I seen this kind of threads for more hundred times already and they contributed nothing.

:S Sick really!

IMO, there are racisms in Thailand, definitely! Same as in other countries all around the world. I was discriminated many times especially in Western countries....in USA, Germany, UK..Belgium also...by many reasons..

Even within ThaiVisa, I got racists too.

A member told me since early days, I must be careful and be strong enough, many here hate Thai-Chinese!

Can't complain, Thai made too much bad reputations..especially Thai women.

I do care and effected but no desperate! Positively made me more tough, and my English communications has been a lot better after that.

So Guys, it is so ordinary..every nation does racisms.. Should stop arguing about this..don't you think?

[streetlife]

It was a little strange when retuning to the UK for a visa renewal for Asia that I was served by absolutely everyone that was from er.... Asia.

I stayed in Hounslow just by Heathrow Airport as my base for a few days. I was driven by taxi to my hotel by a British Asian, checked in by a British Asian, shown to my room by a British Asian, had breakfast served in the morning by a British Asian, took the bus to the town center driven by a British Asian, had my hair cut by a British Asian, went shopping and was served by an British Asians....you get the picture.

Nothing wrong with that its the way it is now the world is changing i don't for one minute feel unwelcome here in Thailand due to racism, if that message is trying to get pushed across to me its not registering, not for one minute, why should i let it if i have accepted that my own county has changed so much.

I believe times will change here also, the next generation will be more tolerant and so on. There are lots of old school Thais still around that when see you they give the impression they have just seen a martian from another planet, that will all change its just a matter of time...or at least i like to think so.

[thaifkrlim]

In about 10 years to come, when overseas Thai return to Thailand, a little strange thing will follow, we will see Thai farang working at the taxi stand, Thai american driving taxis, Thai russian selling fruits by push carts, Thai Jews serving breakfasts, Thai Arabs cutting your hair and massaging your feet, Thai germanic working at mcdonalds, Thai African selling cocaine, Thai swedes making somtam, Thai Japs selling women etc....

I believe times will change here , the next generation will be more tolerant and because the kids from intermarriages in 90's - 00's will start their adulthood by then, There are lots of old school Farang tourists still visiting Thailand will see their martian brotthers growing up wonderfully on another planet

[thepanicandthevomit]

OP

ask the next 10 Thais you meet, yes or no only, Do you like blacks? yes or no

Then read worker wanted ads in any Thai paper. Draw a line through ones that contain, age, sex or race discrimination.

Then read up on how past PM's, and Others, called the Chinese, the 'jews of the East' and established laws discriminating them. That has been reversed in modern days, of course, with the Chinese Thais now the upper class.

Finally, in a perverted way, Thais are racist against themselves by using whitening cream and swallowing whitening pills. How idiotic, if not racist, is it to try to change one's skin color? how spell self mutilation due racial color?

How many women politicians are there compared to western ratio?

Terrific stuff!

[thepanicandthevomit]

'Racism' is a word thrown around by the liberal politicians intended to stifle any objection to our governenments' devotion to a global multicultural Utopia. It's never worked throughout history and is not working now. Human nature dictates that we stick with our own kind and nothing can alter that fact. Falangs only come to Pattaya for the cheap sex with young women not because they wish to embrace Thai culture. We don't go in Thai bars and Thais don't go to Falang hangouts.

So it is a "fact" that human nature dictates we stick with our own kind huh? The many millions of happily married interracial couples around the world would seem to be at odds with that fact. It is probably better that you stick with your own kind though; whatever kind that is.

Where are these 'many millions of happily married interracial couples around the world' then? The US, Europe, China, India, Russia, the Middle East, Outer Mongolia? I live in London, probably the most multicultural city in Europe and possibly the world. There are approximately 130 different languages in use in the Metropolis and you might see a handful of mixed marriages, very few of which endure. Most people I've seen appear to select their matrimonial partners from within their own ethnic group.

And whenever I feel the need of your advice regarding with whom I should associate with I'll let you know.

Sociology 101 - opposites DO NOT attract: almost all people marry people they look like, usually from their own street. Same the world over.

[thepanicandthevomit]

What are you jabbering on about today? Tactics? What are your tactics? Should I compose a set of tactics before I sit down to surf the Internet?

I'll call a Thai racist if he is racist. I'll call a foreigner racist if he is racist. I've met plenty in equal measures. Ignorance is no excuse for racism either. I don't really know why you feel the need to generalize people based on one quote or point of view. You shouldn't try so hard to shoehorn people into a particular box just because they don't share your viewpoint.

And for those of you that believe multiculturalism doesn't work, it does. It's worked in places all around the world for many years. Deal with it, it's here to stay.

If you call one culture tolerating another it does work. One culture living in harmony with another is not always so common. Recent events around the world between those of different religions, tribes and nationalities would suggest that it is far from being here to stay. Look at Sierra Leone, Ruanda, Iran, Iraq, 9/11, 7/7, Madrid, Moscow, Chechnia, the old Yugoslavia as just a few examples of where it has not been too successful.

JiveTalker has clearly never been to bradford.

[thepanicandthevomit]

Where are these 'many millions of happily married interracial couples around the world' then? The US, Europe, China, India, Russia, the Middle East, Outer Mongolia? I live in London, probably the most multicultural city in Europe and possibly the world. There are approximately 130 different languages in use in the Metropolis and you might see a handful of mixed marriages, very few of which endure. Most people I've seen appear to select their matrimonial partners from within their own ethnic group.

As a Londoner you will of course be aware that almost all the 'White British Londoners' are only a couple of generations off the boat from Germany, France, Ireland, Hungary - anywhere where there has been war, civil strife of famine in the past two or three hundred years.

They've intermarried and while you can spot racial traits that indicate individuals ancestry they have all become White British Londoners.

Look back at the history of immigration to London and you'll find plenty of examples of the latest immigrants being singled out as a threat or as not having assimilated, two or three generations down the line they take their turn pointing their finger at the newest arrivals.

There are second/third generation immigrants that STILL consider the land of their ancestors to be home. Tell me how THAT is an example of successful multiculturalism.

[ronz28]

Race is one of the easy filters we initially use to understand each other with before getting to to know someone themselves for their behavior, beliefs etc. Another meaningless filter is like how is this person before me dressed...a slob or appropriately dressed but this this is a better measure than one's race.

Its a defensive mechanism that should be replaced with other observations to discern what that person is all about. I think every race has racial views of other races and someone could survey that here. We can't get to know everyone but its a big mistake to base decisions about someone based on race.

[wintermute]

Thais may discriminate on nationality but they aren't "racist" in the traditional western sense. I'd say they are definitely nationalistic and practice prejudice about a lot of things but "racist" doesn't really fit the bill.

You can't really call their discrimination against Cambodians or Burmese "racist" because they are the same race. It's just discriminatory nationalist behavior similar to how people from "lesser developed" non EU affiliated eastern european nations would be look at in western europe.

[maccaroni man]

I've met many more truly racist expats in Thailand than racist Thai's. Farangs that really believe that Thai's are racist should seriously consider why they are here. I certainly wouldn't want to live in a place where I'm hated. I think that deep down, farangs that call Thai's racist know that they're not being truthful. They think that if they say it enough, it would shame the Thai's to make a change. Has it worked? Not even a little bit. You may want to reconsider your tactics.

sometime taking ones own advice creates great change

[canuckamuck]

My wife says Thais are racist and she is Thai. Is she just saying it to shaming Thais to make a change.

She is always amazed that when she is in Canada she is treated like a favored guest, and she can't recall a single racial incident from her 5 trips overseas.

[kikoman]

Berkshire,

You are so correct in your post !

Most falangs do not know the reality of living in a land of official government decreed racism , Such as South Africa ,USA etc.

Keep fighting the good fight.

You are on the side of the enlightened.

Cheers:

[Ulysses G.]

Most falangs do not know the reality of living in a land of official government decreed racism , Such as.. USA

Keep fighting the good fight.

You are on the side of the enlightened.

He may be, but if you think the government of the U.S. is "racist" you may need a little therapy.