Warning Big C South Pattaya

tropo · August 18, 2010

I agree with your point that most poorer Asia communities shop daily for perishables at wet food markets and hot meat stalls, and without boring you with the physiology and autolysis of food spoilage its an apt word "perishables" as the spoilage en route from "farm to fork" of these perishables is what you you personally dont see as they cannot sell the spoiled tainted food, you only see what has survived to the wet market and hot meat stall at the point of sale.

I don't know from where you drew these conclusions, but it wasn't from personal experience in poorer communities.

Having spent a lot of time in the Philippines and shopping at "wet markets" I can tell you that very little goes to waste. These people do not waste anything. These people cannot afford to waste anything. The people know exactly how long food lasts in their tropical climate and plan things so nothing gets wasted. The family's dog was run over by a car and quickly snapped up for 200 pesos. Sick (infected) pigs are still eaten when they die.

Rimmer · August 18, 2010

One off topic post deleted, please stay on the topic which is:

Warning Big C South Pattaya frozen food departement

not mobile phones

buddy · August 19, 2010

I don't know from where you drew these conclusions, but it wasn't from personal experience in poorer communities.

Having spent a lot of time in the Philippines and shopping at "wet markets" I can tell you that very little goes to waste. These people do not waste anything. These people cannot afford to waste anything. The people know exactly how long food lasts in their tropical climate and plan things so nothing gets wasted. The family's dog was run over by a car and quickly snapped up for 200 pesos. Sick (infected) pigs are still eaten when they die.

Eating Road kill and sick animals and the scene you describe above at the Philippine wet markets suggests a "subsistance" type of poor farming community?

The wet markets do exist in every part of Thailand/Asia, however from a cultural perpective I dont think Thai,s would eat sick animals?, they might eat roadkill depending on type of animal and the value of it, how it died, and to how much it is disfigured/shredded?

If conditions are right most subsistance farmers just about support themselves from the large family plot or small holding and they dont normally have to travel very far to deliver thier produce at the point of sale.

I,m generalising here so please forgive me,

This category of farmer provides (mostly) the same amount of produce to the wet markets you describe probably every single day in a single trip, thats why you have to go early as theres nothing left of any note at noon due to limited supply, ...this will (mostly) provide them for arguements sake with a dollar a day income, so agreed this type of scenario may not produce much waste, but it also doesnt eleviate the Farmers poverty and feed the wider polulation.

Now lets go up a level and take into consideration that most populations of the World now live in towns and cities, so billions of people have to rely on the efforts of farmers and the food they produce, and complimentary to the food produced a reliable supply chain (including Cold Chain) is essential to deliver the food to the point of consumption in those towns and Cities (from Farm to Fork).

The problems exaserbate when the subsistence farmers plan to produce surplus to requirements to rise above a dollar a day income (and why shouldnt he, a noble aspiration in anyones book).

How is the subsistence Farmer going to get the surplus food he plans to produce to market without waste so he has a chance to sell it ALL?...local Farmers cooperatives are one answer where they pool thier resources, Education another, Government assistance another.

It all sounds and sometimes looks very romantic for Westerners shopping every day for "fresh food" in wet markets and buying hung meat from un-refrigerated hot stalls, instead of the sterile Supermarket environments back in Falang land.

Its all part of the appeal of the World travel experience, different people, different cultures, strange sights, new tastes, new sounds and new smells in lands where exotic fruits, exotic vegetables, strange creatures and live flapping fish never seen before are all on display for consumption.

These type of markets do serve a market at a macro level, its when the surplus food issue arrises when they have to feed the larger population or export thier produce that wastage problems occur.

On a personal note I have great respect for a man who feeds his own family by his own sweat and toil, I and am not knocking wet markets, I use them for fruit and vegatables myself, however I have reservations about hygiene where hung meat is sold at un-referigerated "hot" meat stalls.

There is not normally any hot water supply to sanitize utensils and clean surfaces, so next time you visit look towards ground level near the bottom of the meat vendors Counter, its normally a bacteria breeding station!

tropo · August 19, 2010

Eating Road kill and sick animals and the scene you describe above at the Philippine wet markets suggests a "subsistance" type of poor farming community?

The majority of the nearly 100 million Philippine population buys food at wet markets. Probably more than half the population are subsistance farmers. T'he point I'm making is that I really don't believe food wastage is a problem in the poorer Asian countries. Shortage of food is the problem.

NanLaew · August 19, 2010

Thank you for the compliment Bobbin,

My comments hopefully convey a good example of Cold Chain importance and Falangs willing (and not make a million Dollar business out of it as the motivation), to transfer Falang" Technology and training to International standards to benefit Thailand.

This training and knowledge transfer would directly assist Thailand and give a lift up to any Thai aspiring Technicians who COULD be trained to International standards, it would be a life changing moment for an enthusiastic teenager from the rice fields of Isaan to be chosen to have the opportunity to be a "properly" certified trained Technician.

People from 1st World Countries expect a certain standard, Its almost a god given right, they individually or a company only have to pick up the phone and normally work is performed to a certain standard.

We all complain about cowboy builders purely because we have a set of standards we expect to be delivered, this standard just doesnt get delivered and appear out of thin air, there is a huge invisible training machine (forgive the pun) involved, the Engineer/Technician/Mechanic/Heating/Refrigeration Engineer etc has more than likely had to work many many years to gain qualifications before being let out on their own or work in a Technical team, and if its a hands on trade he would have gained these qualifications through a vocational training school or College, which i repeat is mostly invisible to the general public....this is the starting difference between the West and Thailand (1st World Countries versus 3rd World Countries).

Westerners and I include the Governments in 1st World Countries, Japan, Australia etc, financially support vocational training as these Governments positively reckognise how vitaly important it is to the advancement and development of the Nation and peoples safety, Engineering talent also has great overseas earning potential (how many Expat Engineers/Pilots/Trainers/Engineers/Techs/Managers/Oil & Gas etc etc already work in Thailand?).

Who ever wants any old Cowboy with no official certification and training walking in off the street fitting your gas boiler or Central heating system, nobody, lest you want you or your family to die by Carbon Monoxide poisening or blown to little fleshy bits whilst asleep?

We all had breaks at some time in our life, some people call them "life opportunities", a poor Thai Farmers son has few life opportunities to better himself or his family even if he wished to be say a Refrigeratiion Technicain, by the very fact he and his family cannot afford the fees for the training I am talking about, so assistance for him is required from the Thai Government.

Most of the trade "technicians" in Thailand just learn bad habits from one generation and pass it onto the next generation and so on, (not all, mainly Japanese motor trade) and culturaly a younger Thai guy will not normally criticize the older Thai guy even when he sees something wrong, and Boon Khun could also be a factor of his employment.

Just look out on the street at the wiring, the air-con standards, plumbing and poor standards of buildings and Thai infrastructure etc...this is mostly the result of no trade standards being set by vocational training schools because they dont exist, obviously pride in the workers own workmanship, deadlines and other factors may also have a play.

The will and training material, experience (hands on and management) is all readily available from Falangs with the requisite skills to deliver, but the corrupt officials of Thailand YET AGAIN prevent this and steal from thier own?

Vocational Technical training Colleges working to International standards is sorely needed in Thailand for setting a benchmark for a safe secure environment.

Its the only way forward!

bla bla bla bla blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.... my eyes are bleeding!!!

It's a fridge repair man your talking about, not a bloody rocket scientist!!

But if you want to make it sound high tech, air conditioning is a 'science' totally LOST on Thais and other natural born residents of the tropics; that's why it's cack. They don't see it as a life-preserving constitutional right to have ones <deleted> frozen in the office or mall at noon. It's the wimpy farangs that need ice cold air.

So if they tidied up the wiring and airconditioning and drainage and highways and... (tell me when to stop), then it wouldn't be friggn' Thailand now would it? Cold chain importance? First world my arse.

Strewth!

buddy · August 20, 2010

bla bla bla bla blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.... my eyes are bleeding!!!

It's a fridge repair man your talking about, not a bloody rocket scientist!!

But if you want to make it sound high tech, air conditioning is a 'science' totally LOST on Thais and other natural born residents of the tropics; that's why it's cack. They don't see it as a life-preserving constitutional right to have ones <deleted> frozen in the office or mall at noon. It's the wimpy farangs that need ice cold air.

So if they tidied up the wiring and airconditioning and drainage and highways and... (tell me when to stop), then it wouldn't be friggn' Thailand now would it? Cold chain importance? First world my arse.

Strewth!

NanLaew,

Have you got out of the wrong side of bed...having a bad day today are we?

If you want your eyes to bleed even more I'll bite and reply to your rant if you can be bothered to read it?

For clarification purposes a "Fridge" as you are refering to in your post, is a "Domestic refrigerator" like the one you most probably have in your house or hotel room, a Fridge repair man could repair that, but not repair a sophisticated Centralized Supermarket Refrigeration system as installed at Big C or the other large retailers in Thailand.

You find intelligent human beings in every Country of the World, 1st World or 3rd World, so you are being royaly superior sat on your throne looking down with that condescending attitude of yours to assume that Thai and Asian people who account for over 60% of the world population with almost 3.8 billion people are totally lost on any "science" subject (never mind Air-conditioning or Refrigeration technologies) that can improve thier lives.

Your statement "Its the wimpy farangs that need the ice cold air" ...Mmmmm?

Lets see what impact on the Thais "way of life" (as you describe it) would have if they did not have Air-conditioning (A/C) or Refrigeration -

No mobile phones - All mobile phone base stations require cooling....( I see a Thai revolution on the horizon).

No Internet - Date centres require cooling, No ThaiVisa, No Ebay, No email, No internet Banking/Stock Trading, No Skype to your Teelak or family back home and lost income on internet commerce etc.

No Karoake - DVD, CD;s etc require A/C clean rooms for thier production.

No Chang Beer, No Singha Beer, No Leo Beer, No Archer Beer or Tiger beer, or Hieneken or any other beer brewed under license in Thailand (refrigeration is vital for brewing).

No Cold beer at the bar or at home.

No Cold soft drinks, Coke, Sprite, Fanta etc (Coke must be the Worlds worst drink when warm).

No Ice.

No Chilled water.

No Air-conditioning in your home.

No vehicle Air-conditioning for Private cars, Pickups, Taxi,s, limo,s trucks, construction equipment, etc, buses to and from Bangkok and other parts of the Country.

No Hospital operating theatre A/C for medical tourism and vital operations, this also includes no CAT/PET scanners and other essential medical diagnostic equipment that require A/C to operate.

No storage of blood or vaccines.

No Aircraft Air-conditioning to fly in the 10 to 15 million tourists every year that support vast swathes of Thai people?

No Air-conditioning in the hotels for keeping the tourists comfortable?

No Air-conditioning whilst queing up at immigation/security at Suvarnabhumi Airport?

No Bangkok Sky train (BTS) A/C for passenger comfort?

No Marine Refrigeration A/C for import and exports?

Food preservation, Cold Chain, Supermarkets, Shopping Malls, Restaurants, Movie theatres, Gyms, Car manufacturing & Gas extraction in Rayong province, Theatres, A Go-Go bars blah blah blah just far to many applications to list here.

So this 1st World "Science" mix of applications is already in the Thai way of life wether you, or they are aware of it or not, do you think that they would wish it all to dissapear tomorrow?

Poor infrastucture does not make Thailand, Thailand, peoples impression of Thailand is subjective depending on your own experience.

Your inference that to go back to " the Good old days" where by you may consider socially engineering Khmer Rouge style for the Thai population to go back in time to the idylic back breaking poverty stricken peasant lifestyle sweating away under the heat of the Sun for years farming rice is an insult to the resourcefullness of the Thai and Asian peoples to better themselves.

Eyes bleeding yet?

Familyonthemove · August 20, 2010

Freezing is still one of the safest food preservation methods .... no chemical preservatives needed, temperature well below that needed for bacteria to grow, no airtight can/pouch that could cause botulism.

It's slow defrosting and refreezing when the temperature may be at above freezing for a long time that cuases the problem ... which is where microwaves can help to defrost quicker.

I gues one issue is the power needed to keep things below -18'C in a tropical country ... not very green ..... but I'm a fan of freezers and microwaves .... and chicken nuggets.

If us nugget eaters didn't eat the mechanically reclaimed sinews, beaks and feet then it would go to waste! Yummy!

bkkjames · August 20, 2010

Freezing is still one of the safest food preservation methods .... no chemical preservatives needed, temperature well below that needed for bacteria to grow, no airtight can/pouch that could cause botulism.

It's slow defrosting and refreezing when the temperature may be at above freezing for a long time that cuases the problem ... which is where microwaves can help to defrost quicker.

I gues one issue is the power needed to keep things below -18'C in a tropical country ... not very green ..... but I'm a fan of freezers and microwaves .... and chicken nuggets.

If us nugget eaters didn't eat the mechanically reclaimed sinews, beaks and feet then it would go to waste! Yummy!

My wife says something similar about cyclops - the one eyed hot dogs.

Rimmer · August 20, 2010

Oh OK we are back on topic so I wont have to close it after all!!

Edited August 20, 2010 by Rimmer

jori · August 20, 2010

bla bla bla bla blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.... my eyes are bleeding!!!

It's a fridge repair man your talking about, not a bloody rocket scientist!!

But if you want to make it sound high tech, air conditioning is a 'science' totally LOST on Thais and other natural born residents of the tropics; that's why it's cack. They don't see it as a life-preserving constitutional right to have ones <deleted> frozen in the office or mall at noon. It's the wimpy farangs that need ice cold air.

So if they tidied up the wiring and airconditioning and drainage and highways and... (tell me when to stop), then it wouldn't be friggn' Thailand now would it? Cold chain importance? First world my arse.

Strewth!