Settlement Or Tourist

[Takeo]

A brief bit about me. Me and my TW are both 25 years old. She has never been out of Thailand, I am from England or UK to make things easier. We have known eachother for over a year and been in a relationship since we met. Since december we have been living together in Bangkok. We married in May of this year.

I am to return in a few weeks to the uk as (as i have posted before) i am to do a PGCE (a one year course to become a qualified teacher). I do not have any assets and will need to live at my family home. I do not have much in the way of savings, as in not much i mean a couple of hundred pounds. I will be using student loans as well as maintance grants to support myself, although of course i have support from family in terms of living costs.

I would like my wife to be able to join me. I understand that it may be hard to get a settlement visa granted at the moment due to my situation, though not impossible and if worked on can probably submit a good visa application with supporting documents.

Due to the long process of the settlement visa and the cost, i did not know if it would perhaps be a better option to apply for a tourist visa for her to come visit. Though i am under the belief that if she were to be accepted for a tourist visa it would probably have been enough to have been granted a settlement visa as much of the criterea are the same.

Im just looking for any advice that could be offered, i am trying to do this alone and am finding myself becoming muddled at times. We are just a young married couple in love and i dont really want to be parted from my wife for a whole year, im just looking at what possible options i have for her to be with me during my studies (even if only for a short time).

Any advice is much appreciated, i understand some might say i have no hope, though i am looking more for pratical advice i may be able to use, more than give up.

[jayinoz]

I been in the exact same situation when approx. 22yo and fell for a TG very hard. Even though in the end it did not work out for me I would never consider I wasted my time- it was a great time. We lasted 5 years and some exciting times and memories- I did the whole works- the ceremony, build a 2 storey Thai house, get the TW a PR in Aussie and went into serious debt to accomplish all this... Now over 10 years on and a bit wiser (Tiny bit), learnt the language, work here, have Co Ltd here, yet return to Aussie a few months pa.

So you can do it will very little money yet be prepared for debt, although maybe well worth it- depends on how much you love the girl basically. Come on- most of us get into debt for far worse reasons. As a romantic at heart LOVE is one of the better reasons to get into debt- god that sounds girly.

So the PR fee without a lawyer is approx $2200 Aussie, $1000 pounds (DIY).... you do need to prove you can support her for 2 years whilst she cannot work- although try get her to work in restuarants, etc for CASH. This will help, yet my girl was a glamour girl with visions of being on TV\Movies\etc, so she was not keen to work- just look pretty and acting lessons... Live and learn. Maybe your girl far more down to earth and realistic?

Apply in the UK, if possible... or she is meant to wait 2 years in Thailand- although you can get Tourist Visas in the meantime. Yet this is all at great expense also. As she will only get 6 months VISAs and you will need to fly back every 6 months at your expense. Additionally she cannot get ANY government benefits for over 2 years (Not sure of the rules in UK- I suggest similar). Character wise she must not have an issue on police record, must have a clean bill of health on the medical, you must be willing to financially support her and show you have the means to do so. If she not prepared to work- I can see who is now--- ask yourself 'What jobs has she done before you that you can confirm- were they jobs to simply catch a Farang- try be real with yourself'. If she worked in a factory for years- all good- restuarants will depend on what type and what did she do. Doe she think she will need to contribute to the household budget- if you in doubt then it means she not expecting to work, even if she states she will... many things she can do for cash in UK if really wants too.

Simply show your current job and future prospects and this should not be a concern as they evaluate your application for 2 years. As you do not have the monetary means as the older guys yet, however they consider your earning potential in the future. Basically you and your partner cannot be a burden on the welfare system or you may have issues.

My past glamour girl had issues in this regard, due to living off men since she mid teens. So l needed to fake jobs and employers for her..

Ultimately she got her PR and went onto benefits after 2 years- trying to get acting gigs in Aussie proved unsuccessful... so we went to live in Thailand, were she could get some minor glamour work and I ran a guesthouse. At a considerable loss of salary yet that was my sacrifice. Overall it was quite an experience for 5 years and we went our seperate ways- mutually with other partners.

Anyway we both tried hard, yet I could never respect that all she could do was be a glamour girl and nothing else... prefering to admire the women whom worked 12 hours per day 7 days pw. For her it was a blessing as she got a HK partner whom got her into some OK movies and he could make some of her dreams come true. Which was great...

Anyway be prepared for DEBT and do what you must do if you really want this girl. With little money and being young it is best you build savings in the UK. Hopefully you in a good paying field, you may end up back in Thai one day- if you sacrifice for her. Nowadays I prefer to be in Thai personally over Aussie. As I more cashed up these days (Knock on wood), as a stockbroker whom had some wins and losses.

Those 5 years is an experience i would never wish to change. It was apart of my journey in life- whilst I would never select on purely looks alone again it was exciting times.

The Thai ceremoney was unforgetable with 500 guests from her Village in Lamphun. The 2 storey house is used by extended family from her side and if I wished I could use it as a holiday home. As i have a 30+30 year lease over the property (only 30 yrs approved by Land Office), yet I am not evil enough to sell it out from underneath her family.

Would I do it again- NO... as I discovered I not made for Aussie. So why get a PR for another girl when I never intend to leave permanently in Aussie ever again. Just the occasional 6 month contract in melbourne or Perth as needed.

Anyway i wish you the best of luck- read some culture books to understand each other better (Like thailand Fever- Left hand side English and Right hand side Thai- read it together). As it will get you ready for what you will be in for in terms of cultural clashes. Plus what you up against back home... it all very true.

Chok Dee. Cheers Jay.

:jap:

[Takeo]

I appriciate the reply, and was interesting to hear your version of thing. However i feel you missed the point of what i was asking. As in im more than happy with my choice of partner and where i am at the moment. I was more enquiring as to which visa might best be suited to my predicament

[7by7]

Takeo, Living in shared accommodation with family or friends is fine, as long as there is at least one room for the exclusive use of you and your wife. It is also permissible to use your grants and student loans for financial support.

There have recently been at least two members in your position; if you put "PGCE' into search you should find some useful information*.

*Edit; Such as the two links I provided in your previous topic on this subject.

Edited August 17, 2010 by 7by7

[Takeo]

thank you 7by7. I appreciate what u said about the money and housing. I was not trying to revitalise and old post as i did read the posts about pgce's. My main point of posting this time was i did not know if i may have more luck with a tourist visa, than with a settlement visa. Think it is just more worry than anything kicking in, as i do feel i have a case for settlement anyways.

[davos09]

Hi Takeo.

Just been reading up on your situation. Mine is a bit similar but then again quite different! I married my wife May 2009, we've been together now almost three years, 2 and a half of which we've lived here in Thailand together. I suppose the main difference is we have two children, our daughter is 15 months and our son is 2 months old. Me, my wife and daughter went back to the UK last October, my wife had a family visit visa as the purpose of the trip was just that and my father was the sponsor.

We wanted to apply for my wife's settlement visa this year, but following the birth of our second child, funds aren't quite available yet. I work here as a teacher, so in effect you have to work twice as hard to get a good wage! However, my family is very keen on us returning a.s.a.p and so are prepared to provide accommodation which is suitable for the four of us plus my parents. So we're OK on that requirement. The biggest stumbling block I've got is similar to yours - little in the way of savings. Again my family is happy to provide third party assistance regarding finance, but my worry is will it be enough? I haven't got a job lined up yet but have a few avenues to explore. Being 25 like yourself, I don't think it will be so difficult to find one, but obviously it's something I need to set up in advance so it can be included in my wifes application.

So basically we're hoping to "have a go" at a settlement visa for my wife at the end of this year or early 2011. If we can do it, I'm pretty sure I'd be penniless on arrival to UK. Perhaps I'm being too optimistic thinking that we'd be successful, but it's the only way I see it happening for us. If it is successful it would be down to my parents. I'm not prepared to go back alone first and then bring my family over, I want us to all go together. However, sometimes I find myself thinking that me going first might be the only way!

The whole visa thing is a game of risk, no one wants to pay for a refusal, especially at that price! I'm like yourself, looking for some reassurance that it would be worthwhile applying.

Let us know what you go for.

Cheers

[Petergreet]

It really depends on what you intend to do after 1 year. If the intention is to return to thailand and you tell the ECO that in a settlement visa then it will fail.

Apply for a family visit visa for her. Normally these are only issued initially for 6 months, but if you are legally married and explain that you are returning to the UK for a period of 12 months I would think they are likely to give your wife a 12 month visa, providing they are satisfied that you will be able to support her. Of course she will not be able to work, but the visa will be cheaper.

Of course if you intend to stay in UK after 1 year then you should look at a settlement visa, on which your wife will be able to work.

[liveforever]

takeo,

i was in the same situation last year; in the end we went for the family visa, (we've been together 7 years, married for 18 months), we got that ok, no problem; we're now waiting for a decision on the settlement visa; its a great question on which is the harder visa to get, maybe 7 by 7 could shed some light on it. for me i thought it was a foot in the door to try for the family visa first, maybe i was playing safe, but thats my story.

good luck to you.

cheers

[7by7]

The problem with a family visit visa is that, although any visit visa may have a term of up to 10 years, the maximum that one can spend in the UK as a visitor is 6 months per visit. In addition there is a convention that a visitor should not spend more than 6 months out of any 12 in the UK. If it became apparent to an Immigration Officer that the visa was being used to live in the UK with one's spouse/partner then entry would probably be refused.

Applying for a family visit visa and telling the ECO that one wishes to remain in the UK for 12 months will, in my honest opinion, result in failure.

If one does get the visa, then arriving at a UK port of entry and, if questioned, saying one intends to remain in the UK for 12 months will, IMHO, result in entry being refused.

If one does enter the UK and stays for more than 6 months then one will be, IMHO, an illegal overstayer and, if discovered, could be removed and/or banned from the UK for up to 10 years; possibly life. The last three times I have left the UK Immigration Officers have been standing just after security checking passports, so the likelihood of being discovered is high.

Unfortunately, although returning to the UK to study, if one is a British citizen then one's spouse/partner cannot apply as a student dependent.

This leaves just a settlement visa; which in my opinion is the only option, for the reasons stated above. It may not fit perfectly, but does have the flexibility of being converted into ILR after 24 months and even British citizenship after 3 years in the UK should the couple decide to stay.

As said, the above is just my opinion; I stand to be corrected.

[Petergreet]

Interesting post 7, by definition a settlement visa is issued to immigrants coming to live in UK permanently. I think, but again not sure, that the ECO has discretion to issue a visit visa which allows for a 12 month stay in UK, although this is not the norm. If not then we are concluding that should the truth be told to the embassy then it is not possible for a British Citizen living abroad to return with his wife for a period of 12 months. Seems really odd to me that after 6 months she would have to return and they will be forced to live apart for 6 months. Supposing this was to happen regularly? may husBand spends a year in tHAILAnd then a year in UK on a regularly basis.

[7by7]

The immigration rules do allow entry as a visitor for 12 months if accompanying an academic visitor

41. The requirements to be met by a person seeking leave to enter the United Kingdom as a general visitor are that he:

(i) is genuinely seeking entry as a general visitor for a limited period as stated by him, not exceeding 6 months or not exceeding 12 months in the case of a person seeking entry to accompany an academic visitor, provided in the latter case the visitor accompanying the academic visitor has entry clearance

However, the professional advice I have received in the past is that the spouse/partner of a British citizen returning to the UK to study would not be counted as accompanying an academic visitor because their British spouse/partner would not be such a visitor. Couples in this position, and the one you mentioned, are not catered for in the rules and applying for settlement is, IMHO, their only option. Although the intention when most people apply for settlement is to live in the UK indefinitely, plans do change and leaving the UK before the initial 27 months is up and so not obtaining ILR would be no bar to that person applying for settlement again at some point in the future.

Obviously, if possible, the couple should remain in the UK long enough for the foreign partner to obtain British citizenship; then they can both come and go as often and for as long as they like.

However, if you can find anything in the immigration rules, entry clearance guidance or any other UKBA publication that says otherwise, I will gladly concede the point and correct my viewpoint.

[Petergreet]

7, I am sure what you say is correct, and certainly agree with you that an SV does not have to be followed by ILR. Quite right that plans can change and this would not impact any future SV application.

But you know, members are always advised to tell the truth, but in this case if the OP were to state that they plan to return to Thailand in one year to live, then this would be grounds for an automatic failure of a SV application, as they are not actually intendeing to settle in the UK. Smililarly, if the applied for a 6 month visit visa, this would be denied as there is good grounds to suggest that as husband is going for 12 months it is likely that she would overstay and certainly would not be able to satisfy the 'reason to return' if it were to mean being apart from her husband.

[phuketrichard]

not to hijack this psot but what with the pop over for flights that shows up on this thread,

its fuc_king annoying!!!!