Does Your Partner Appreciate Your Sacrifices?

[Loz]

So, I could never give up my values and desires for intellectual companionship among various other things that seem often compromised in "farang thai" relationships.

I wondered,

Firstly, does your thai partner know that you have made serious sacrifices to be with them?

Secondly, does your partner appreciate your cultural sacrifices?

finally, Not that relationships are about keeping score, but in your own experiences who do you think makes more cultural sacrifices?

As this is Thai visa these questions are aimed at those living here with their thai partners but anyone with experience is welcome to contribute, I'd just ask that they contextualize the response.

[IanForbes]

I don't think they appreciate it. They just expect it. It's not much different than North American marriages in that respect. Unfortunately, too many people don't realize the true cost of a serious, long term commitment in a relationship. In a marriage you give up most of your freedom and many of your former privileges. The gains depend on the couple. Occasionally, a partner will allow a spouse to have some former privileges if they get something in return. That is often the case where for financial security, a wife will look the other way when her husband has a second wife.

[john_bkk919]

^^

Do they appreciate it? No. I think most lack the framework to even conceptualize it.

[Shotime]

I tend to agree with Ian, but you always get in trouble when you speak in generalities. Here, in LOS though, it's even more true. However, there are exceptions. What you're willing to sacrifice is really your choice. A friend once told me a long time ago when I was complaining about what my partner at the time was expecting of me, said it was my fault because I allowed it.

I once asked my Thai GF if she was aware of the strong baht, and how my dollar was dropping, if she understood what that meant to my finances. She was honest in regard to certain things, and her answer was yes, but she could care less. She didn't say it in as many words, but I understood that in money matters, she understood fully. She just didn't give a shit.

As far as intellectual sacrifices, I don't really care that much. My Thai GF wasn't stupid, but she wasn't much into those type of discussions which was fine with me as I wasn't that interested in having very deep inyellectual conversations with her. I reserved that for the boys at the pool.

[jaideeguy]

My partner of 10yrs [generally] doesn't have a clue, refuses to have a clue, and will never have a clue. Seems to be the norm to just accept things for what they are. I do little [and big] favors all the time and very rarely get a thanks. The Asian way......

[cardholder]

My partner of 10yrs [generally] doesn't have a clue, refuses to have a clue, and will never have a clue. Seems to be the norm to just accept things for what they are. I do little [and big] favors all the time and very rarely get a thanks. The Asian way......

Pretty much spot on.

I also recognise that my partner does many things to try and help to bridge the cultural gap.

[sua77]

My wife of four years was very understanding of the sacrifices that I made when we were living in Thailand. She always thanked me for what I did, how I treated her family, and how I let myself become the butt of all the jokes ...

I also think she has gained a greater appreciation of what I went through as we have moved back to America and she is going through the culture shock. Maybe I am just lucky but I would say many of my friends in Thai/farang relationships feel the same way I do ....

[Loz]

167 views and only 6 replies. But as ever, Quality outways quantity and for that I thank you.

Are you familar with the Thoreau quote:

"Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them."

I think its important to let the song out hence my interest in the metaphysics of quality and value. I hope this thread will help illuminate qualitative issues around living "with" the benefits of the land of smiles. and how values differ between cultures.

:jap:

[TheWalkingMan]

My partner of 10yrs [generally] doesn't have a clue, refuses to have a clue, and will never have a clue. Seems to be the norm to just accept things for what they are. I do little [and big] favors all the time and very rarely get a thanks. The Asian way......

Rarely get a thanks? Sounds like poor upbringing to me. All of the Asian women I have dated (except one) have always said please and thank-you for things done, so I do not agree with "The Asian way..." Some IMHO, have better manners and others just do not care.

TheWalkingMan

[kissdani]

Does at least one of you consider that your partner made serious sacrifices , compromised and gives up a lot just to be with you?

No 'thank you' in 10 years of a relationship? Really? Would you be able to understand how your partner says thank you? Do you have a clue? How often does your Thai partner complains, despite all your massive sacrifices for them?

Are you really sure that you are able to offer a 'intellectual companionship'?

Are you able to appreciate it what it means to be with you? Do you have the framework to conceptualize it?

A look into a mirror will maybe help.

[bifftastic]

A very interesting topic, thank you.

I'm not living in Thailand so my comment will be about the last relationship I had here in England, and relationships in general, but I will throw in my thoughts so far about the long-distance relationship in Thailand as well, as far as it relates to the topic.

As with all relationships there is change in your life when you commit to another person, I'm not sure that this can be regarded as 'giving up privileges' exactly but the lifestyles of both partners will change. If you see it as giving up something then you may well come to resent that later on.

This would be the same, if not more so, if you believed you had somehow sacrificed liberty or location to reside in a different country in order to be with someone.

My ex once said, whilst commenting on the breakdown of her relationship with her most recent b/f, that I had never criticised her, found fault with her, argued with her because I just wanted to be more 'right' than she was, in the whole six years we were together. She said that she never appreciated that until it was too late, she also asked me "how come?" I said, "because I loved you, that's how come".

To me, none of these things she mentioned were difficult for me, it wasn't like I was biting my tongue or walking on eggshells or anything, I just genuinely didn't find anything she did worthy of criticism. Finding fault with people is an unpleasant and wasteful thing to do, and 'winning' arguments is boring.

So it wasn't a sacrifice. I could do what I wanted when I wanted, all that was required, not by her but by my own sense of courtesy, was that I tell her if I was coming home straight from work or going out drinking. Quite often when i said I was going out she would quite happily inform me that she was already doing the same!

So, the gist of my comment is, I think, that in any relationship in any location, if you think you have made sacrifices, if you actually regard it in those terms, you may well soon feel that you have been, somehow, short-changed. Because you have already put a value on what you have 'sacrificed' you will then have to put a value on what you perceive to have 'been given' in return.

Whether the two values add up will depend on how you're feeling at the time, if you're not getting on very well with your partner you may begin to 'de-value' what you currently have and nostalgically ramp up what you had before causing a feeling of resentment toward your partner as if hey are somehow partly 'to blame' for your predicament. This is true wherever you are, in your home country it may be your 'freedom' that you begin to value higher. In another country it may be 'home comforts' you decide have been sacrificed. Or conversations in your mother tongue, or anything that you miss. You can miss things without it being anything to do with how your partner values those things.

It may be very difficult to do something about it if what you realise you miss is going to the football with your mates if you're 9,000 miles away! For me it wasn't so hard, I can walk to the stadium from my house!

I think it is important to realise the very personal nature of this value system and the fact that other people may be completely unaware of it, which doesn't mean they somehow disregard it or dismiss it, it just means they haven't gone through the same 'putting a value on things' as you have.

Having said that, my current g/f has often mentioned how she's thought about how we both grew up so far apart, in different countries with different language and cultures but yet we are 'together'. I did once point out to her that I wouldn't have travelled so far to come to stay with her if I wasn't serious about her but I didn't mention it in terms of sacrifice in any way. As far as the feeling of having given things up goes, who knows? Maybe in a few years time, when I've, hopefully, moved permanently to Thailand I will feel differently but I have to say that I doubt it.

I hope the fact that I'm not currently living in Thailand has not detracted from the topic. I'll be very interested in what others have to say.

Cheers,

Biff

[bifftastic]

167 views and only 6 replies. But as ever, Quality outways quantity and for that I thank you.

Are you familar with the Thoreau quote:

"Most men lead lives of quiet desperation and go to the grave with the song still in them."

I think its important to let the song out hence my interest in the metaphysics of quality and value. I hope this thread will help illuminate qualitative issues around living "with" the benefits of the land of smiles. and how values differ between cultures.

:jap:

I wasn't familiar with that quote, but it's a good one, thanks yes, let the song out, nice sentiment.

[Shotime]

It seems like you finally got a woman's perspective of things.

[phetaroi]

I went to Thailand for two reasons. One was that it was something I always wanted to do when I retired, although I was torn between retiring in Thailand and retiring in Colorado (I was from Virginia). I could have been happy either way. What made me decide on Thailand was that someone I had been close with for over 15 years was there, and I thought we could have a very nice relationship. So I made the sacrafices. Sold most of my personal belongings, sold my townhouse and car. Landed in Thailand and he (we are gay) forgot to meet me at the airport. Profuse apologies. Forgot to mention ahead of time that he had contracted hepatitis B from a blood transfusion. Profound apologies. In the first year was only willing to give up Saturday music lessons (Thai classical music) twice, and badminton tournaments on Sundays twice. Contented relationship, but he made not a single sacrifice...other than no longer living in a crappy flat, no longer subsisting on street food 100% of the time. He never had it so good. And by the way, not a bar boy...a professional educator with a Masters Degree who works in the Education Ministry in mid-level management. After a decade of repeated and extended hospital stays each year due to aplastic anemia, for the year that I fed and housed him, not one hospital visit. Not a word of appreciation. Just expected.

So, along came the riots and arson, which got close enough to our soi that black smoke billowed down the soi in the afternoon. Not the Thailand I signed up for. Decided to return to the States. Got all my funds transferred back to the States, all my property shipped back. The only thing not completed was selling the car I had just bought. The sale was in progress, but would not be completed by the time my flight out was scheduled. So I told him he could have half ($15,000 USD), and then he could wire me the other half. Pretty good "alimony"...more money than he had ever had in his life...not to mention that I had gone ahead and rented our apartment for him for several months up front.

But you guessed it. I never heard from him again. Never got the $15,000.

Kamoy!

And this was one of the well educated, almost middle class Thais.

So any sense of sacrifice? No...just a sense of what could he get his hands on.

And me -- well king-sized "sucker"!

[PattayaParent]

My partner of 10yrs [generally] doesn't have a clue, refuses to have a clue, and will never have a clue. Seems to be the norm to just accept things for what they are. I do little [and big] favors all the time and very rarely get a thanks. The Asian way......

Not my experience with my Vietnamese wife.

So maybe The Thai Way.

[JPPR2]

Interesting topic for which I hope it stays polite and on subject.

My comments. My GF of nearly 2.5 years has a firm understanding of the things I will no longer have access to both material and culture wise. I do not call them "sacrifices" per-say. I enjoy the changes this relationship has offered both of us and look forward to finding new things to replace what I have left behind. In a way it is quite refreshing in that most women in the US(generalizing here but what I have witnessed for years) are not very appreciative at all anyway, in fact most expect far too much for what little they give in return.

Up to this point it life has been far more simpler, practical and down to earth. Closer family bonds by far. Living with less is a way of life and I enjoy that. I feel far less stress. My GF is very appreciative of what I do for her and us and comments frequently. I will agree that we have not had deep conversations about anything in particular but she is cognizant of a wide variety of subjects that we touch on when it comes to light. I help her and a lot of her friends with work projects and English corrections or interpretations. They help me with Thai.

I think in any relationship what you both put into it, is what you will both get out of it.

[bkkjames]

I think mine appreciates it but as is often the case you don't realise what you have until its gone.

[robblok]

As i had a Thai wife for 4 years in Holland and now live here almost 5 years i have seen both sides of the coin. Its hard to imagine what sacrifices the other makes till you really live it.

The relation i am in is quite equal in stuff we pay so we don't have to thank each other and stuff like that. I never have the feeling im owed a thank you but i do have the feeling she does not know what i have given up to be here. But we discussed this when we started the relation. She came to Holland for 3 months and because i seen what living abroad can do to a Thai wife (first one) and the value of her diploma's we decided to live here.

I am happy here but i did give some things up (mainly family contact and job opportunities). I think she does not realizes how much it was but im not the kind of guy who needs a thank you for everything. But i must say Asians in general thank less and take things as they come. I seen plenty of examples of that. But the object of giving something is not getting a thank you back.

[bonobo]

I think that part of human nature is that we focus on our perceived sacrifices while not really appreciating those of others. My ex-wife, an American, left me twice only to come back once and try to come back the second time as she did not recognize what I had to offer until she left. Even now, I resent putting her through medical school and all that entailed, I resent her leaving me, I resent her spendthrift ways. However, it takes a hard introspective to acknowledge that even while studying, she took the time to do all those sweet little things which made me happy.

I have had limited mid-to-long-term relationships with Thai women. One was with a woman who never acknowledged any of my "sacrifices," I guess you could call them, but was very easy-going, accepting what came down the pike, and non-demanding. Another was with a woman who continually was lovey-dovey, who thanked me all the time, who told me how lucky she was to have me, etc, but who was overly jealous, demanding of my time, and could get angry when she felt things were slipping away from her.

The OP's question is a valid one and interesting, but for me, not too important in a relationship. For me, the bottom line is if you are happy in the relationship, happier in in than if you were out of it.

[thomo]

Firstly, does your thai partner know that you have made serious sacrifices to be with them?

Yes.

Secondly, does your partner appreciate your cultural sacrifices?

Yes.

[IanForbes]

Interesting topic, and well worth discussing. I thought Bifftastic's reply to be quite inciteful... :jap:

My ex once said, whilst commenting on the breakdown of her relationship with her most recent b/f, that I had never criticised her, found fault with her, argued with her because I just wanted to be more 'right' than she was, in the whole six years we were together. She said that she never appreciated that until it was too late, she also asked me "how come?" I said, "because I loved you, that's how come".

To me, none of these things she mentioned were difficult for me, it wasn't like I was biting my tongue or walking on eggshells or anything, I just genuinely didn't find anything she did worthy of criticism. Finding fault with people is an unpleasant and wasteful thing to do, and 'winning' arguments is boring.

So it wasn't a sacrifice. I could do what I wanted when I wanted, all that was required, not by her but by my own sense of courtesy, was that I tell her if I was coming home straight from work or going out drinking. Quite often when i said I was going out she would quite happily inform me that she was already doing the same!

I get pleasure from giving, so it is not a sacrifice. Unfortunately, some women expect more than a man can give. And, very often they lose respect for men who are TOO giving. If you are treated with scorn after trying to be helpful then it easy to become resentful. It's like flipping a switch from one side to the other. One moment you are happy and the next moment you are angry.

To me, marriage was all about sharing and raising children. I loved watching my children grow up and learn about life. It appears my first wife and I did a pretty good job of it. Both our children are now well adjusted adults who are training our grandchildren in a proper manner. But, other than the children we had very little in common with each other. She is better suited with the man she is with now and I'm happy for both of them. She also did me a favour by ending our marriage with infidelity.

[Kwasaki]

Firstly, does your thai partner know that you have made serious sacrifices to be with them?

Yes.

Secondly, does your partner appreciate your cultural sacrifices?

Yes.

Thirdly ? In answer to that I suppose it would have to be me who has sacrificed most but then that was my decision and I have no regrets so I would not call it a sacrifice.

In my experiance I am with thomo, there are too many permutations in what you ask into what people think in this situation.

Edited August 23, 2010 by Kwasaki

[Loz]

too many permutations?

surely that is an invitation to enrichen the responses with diversity?

no barriers, no boundries!

I'm most glad that people have come to this thread openly without agenda. I hope it will be one that benefits many if only giving them pause for thought and reflection leading to a better understanding.

Thanks again to all contributors.

[thomo]

Firstly, does your thai partner know that you have made serious sacrifices to be with them?

Yes.

Secondly, does your partner appreciate your cultural sacrifices?

Yes.

Thirdly ? In answer to that I suppose it would have to be me who has sacrificed most but then that was my decision and I have no regrets so I would not call it a sacrifice.

She sacrificed more than me, ahelluva lot more than me, and for much longer periods. She gave up her job and life in Chiang Mai to move to sticksville Isaan where there was no job/life for her, and I was too broke (and too much of a dick) to be able to help her in anyway. She moved down for a year of being bored and broke to keep the reltionship alive.

I don't really sacrifice that much. Besides meeting the family for 3 days per year at NYE.

[akirasan]

How could they understand? Most of them have never lived outside of Thailand.

[MidoriApple]

Yes, I do!

Words "Thank you", "Yes,please", "lovely" are always in my thoughts...to everyone..

Only for my man, ummm...I will say with more passionate..lol

[Chonburiram]

Firstly, does your thai partner know that you have made serious sacrifices to be with them?

This isn't the case in our relationship, not for her ( her kids ) neither for me .

Secondly, does your partner appreciate your cultural sacrifices?

Cultural sacrifices?

I grew up in an occidental environment and living in Thailand, learning the language and the way of live here, gives me a great insight/ knowledge in oriental/ Thai culture; so, a definitive gain, not a sacrifice.

finally, Not that relationships are about keeping score, but in your own experiences who do you think makes more cultural sacrifices?

See first answer.

Edited August 23, 2010 by Chonburiram

[H2oDunc]

So let me see now, I moved here from living in London.

I gave up having to travel 2-3 hours on crowded buses,trains and the tube with the most ignorant, bigoted people in the whole world and paying around 250 pounds a month for the privilege to boot.

Spending 10-12 hours at work having to listen to up their own <deleted> health and safety men tell me how to do my job then having to face the same journey back

I gave up paying 1100 pounds a month to live in a small basic flat in a not very nice neighbourhood

I gave up having to pay ever increasing tax and national insurance to keep workshy scum in beer, fags and sky TV.

I gave up when going for a ride having to carry 40 pounds of stainless steel chain and 400 pounds sterling in padlock to secure my bike. Along with a disc lock, steering lock, and category 1 alarm / immobiliser and never knowing for sure whether the thing was going to be there when I returned. ( Lost 2 )

I gave up miserable weather, food and vastly expensive EVERYTHING

So does my wife know what I gave up to come here.

YES

I make sure she knows every day I am much happier here than I ever was back there. and the main reason I am so happy is her!

[IanForbes]

Well said, Dunc. :lol:

I love my home country (Canada) but I'm quite happy leaving it for 5 months each winter. It's actually a break even situation financially. I own my home in Canada outright, but it's cheaper to close the doors and rent a hotel room in Chiang Mai rather than turn on the heating. I'm a good cook, so eating is not expensive for me in Canada, but I can eat just a cheaply (or cheaper) in Thailand if I eat in Thai cafes. So, as far as living expenses are concerned it's an even trade. But, what I CAN'T have in Canada is a reasonable sex life. I can have anything I want in Thailand and for much cheaper than being married or having a permanent relationship. I don't need or want someone to take care of me, but I'm quite willing to help others in need. I get pleasure from giving whether the women appreciate it or not. Idon't spend anything I can't afford and if someone tries to play me like an ATM machine then I just shut off the source. It doesn't even upset me.

But, it still comes down to each individual. Everybody is different and I would no more think of telling someone else how to live their life than fly to the moon. All I can do is give advice from my point of view if it is asked for. Otherwise I mind my own business. I know three farang men married to ugly, fat Thai women and they bicker and fight all the time. Why they stay together I have no idea, but it's not up to me to advise them. I sometimes think they deserve each other, and they prefer fighting with each rather than actually trying to do something about it.

[nocturn]

I tend to agree with Ian, but you always get in trouble when you speak in generalities. Here, in LOS though, it's even more true. However, there are exceptions. What you're willing to sacrifice is really your choice. A friend once told me a long time ago when I was complaining about what my partner at the time was expecting of me, said it was my fault because I allowed it.

I once asked my Thai GF if she was aware of the strong baht, and how my dollar was dropping, if she understood what that meant to my finances. She was honest in regard to certain things, and her answer was yes, but she could care less. She didn't say it in as many words, but I understood that in money matters, she understood fully. She just didn't give a shit.

As far as intellectual sacrifices, I don't really care that much. My Thai GF wasn't stupid, but she wasn't much into those type of discussions which was fine with me as I wasn't that interested in having very deep inyellectual conversations with her. I reserved that for the boys at the pool.

would that be the pool at the Malaysia hotel?