Can You Differentiate Between Native Thais And Chinese Thais?

[darhut]

Chinese Thais are more attractive than Chinese people because they have mixed with the Native Thais (to some extent). For some genetic reason, mixing races creates more attractive babies.

Thank you Dr Josef Mengele....

Couldn't have said it better.

Chunky1's post is absolute nonsense. He's comparing "attractiveness" from a small minority mixed ethnic group in Thailand with the looks of 1,3 Billion people.

How absurd.

LaoPo

Laopo I think Chunky1 is generalizing as the last part of his post would suggest. I personally cannot refute his statement but as they say" beauty up to you" or something similar.

Why are so many "superstars" in Thailand look krung?

I personally don't think I could have a relationship with a HiSo Chai as they have a different definition of fun to myself. I don't dislike them I just have different interests etc.

Edited August 25, 2010 by darhut

[gburns57au]

The Thais moved from their ancestral home in southern China into mainland southeast Asia around the 10th century AD. Prior to this, Indianized kingdoms such as the Mon, Khmer and Malay kingdoms ruled the region. The Thais established their own states starting with Sukhothai, Chiang Saen and Chiang Mai as Lanna Kingdom and then Ayutthaya kingdom.

Define "native Thai" please

[inthepink]

The Thais moved from their ancestral home in southern China into mainland southeast Asia around the 10th century AD. Prior to this, Indianized kingdoms such as the Mon, Khmer and Malay kingdoms ruled the region. The Thais established their own states starting with Sukhothai, Chiang Saen and Chiang Mai as Lanna Kingdom and then Ayutthaya kingdom.

Define "native Thai" please

I don't think you need to go back to the 10th century when defining natives. After all, if you do that then I might as well be French, Danish or German and virtually all residents of the USA and Australia would not be considered as natives.

I still think people are getting confused about the term "Chinese Thai" anyway. The Thai people I know use this term in English when they are referring to Chinese people (usually 3rd or 4th generation immigrants) who have married other ethnic Chinese and have Thai nationality. They don't use the term to describe people of mixed Chinese and Thai parentage. This is probably why an earlier person said they are quite easy to spot by the shape of their eyes, as indeed they are (ตาตี).

The hi-so side debate is a bit silly. Not all Chinese Thais (however you define them) are wealthy and there are plenty of hi-so families who are not Chinese Thais.

As to whether hi-sos are nice people or not I have found them to be much the same as any other type of person. 20% are nice, 30% are OK and 50% are complete kn**s. In my experience these percentages seem to hold roughly true for people of all nationalities and income groups.

Edited August 25, 2010 by inthepink

[gburns57au]

In Oz, the native Australian is indeed the Indigenous Australian or the Australian Aborigine.

The native American I believe is considered to be the American Indian.

The term native refers to the original inhabitants of a region or country, this certainly wasnt the Tai people from Southern China, as the Mon, Khmer and Malays occupied the area prior to the 10th century.

Hence my question.

My wife is Chinese Thai and takes pride in that, her father was Chinese. She is not Hi So, I think it is a misconception that all Chinese Thais are Hi So or consider themselves to be.

I also cant work out why all the girls go and work in bars in Thailand, especially as nearly all the ex pats are married to well off, middle income, educated Thai girls.

[StreetCowboy]

8>< NESTED QUOTES DELETED ><8

Actually no I wasnt trying to divert anything into an irrelevant side-road.......I was actually taking the p*ss..... ......Are you one of our colonial cousins who hasnt yet aquired the concept of sarcasm ?

sorry - no sense of humour whatsoever. SuperStarStatus pointed that out on another thread...

I can't believe that anyone would not take a thread such as this with complete seriousness. Gravitas, even.

SC

[bannork]

Many young Chinese Thais often wear glasses from a very young age and the older women either have a short perm or plain short hair and wear what I consider dowdy and drab blouses and trousers.

The top businessmen try to keep their businesses as Chinese as possible, Dhanin using Chinese facial characterisitics to decide employment and Charern ensuring a suitable Chinese background for his top staff,but in my experience the young are much more open.

[inthepink]

In Oz, the native Australian is indeed the Indigenous Australian or the Australian Aborigine.

The native American I believe is considered to be the American Indian.

The term native refers to the original inhabitants of a region or country, this certainly wasnt the Tai people from Southern China, as the Mon, Khmer and Malays occupied the area prior to the 10th century.

Hence my question.

My wife is Chinese Thai and takes pride in that, her father was Chinese. She is not Hi So, I think it is a misconception that all Chinese Thais are Hi So or consider themselves to be.

I also cant work out why all the girls go and work in bars in Thailand, especially as nearly all the ex pats are married to well off, middle income, educated Thai girls.

Well, I think for the purposes of this discussion a native Thai is someone whose mother and father are not 100% ethnically Chinese (as in modern Chinese, not from 1000 years ago).

Perhaps use the UK as a comparison rather than Australia or the USA . I consider myself a native of the UK but if you go back 10 centuries then I could be French or Scandinavian. Go back even further and I could be Germanic. It's possible my ancestors were here earlier and were Celts I suppose but 1000 years later it's all pretty irrelevant as everyone will be a mix (apart from the inbred aristocracy)

I don't understand your last comment though? The kind of girls who go to work in bars are not from middle class families.

Edited August 25, 2010 by inthepink

[wintermute]

I also cant work out why all the girls go and work in bars in Thailand, especially as nearly all the ex pats are married to well off, middle income, educated Thai girls.

Are we talking about the same people here? You'll rarely find real chinese-thais in bars. If you do find them in the "working" areas of Bangkok they'll be in high class massage parlors or gentleman's clubs visited by wealthy Thai guys.

[Travel2003]

I also cant work out why all the girls go and work in bars in Thailand, especially as nearly all the ex pats are married to well off, middle income, educated Thai girls.

Are we talking about the same people here? You'll rarely find real chinese-thais in bars. If you do find them in the "working" areas of Bangkok they'll be in high class massage parlors or gentleman's clubs visited by wealthy Thai guys.

In other words, same same, just different name/locations.

[IanForbes]

Just as a bit of a hobby I try to figure out ethnic backgrounds of various Asian groups. You can generalize a bit, but nothing is an exact science. Northern Chinese and Koreans tend to be taller and have paler skin than Asians from more southern countries. Vietnamese and Japanese tend to be smaller and more fine featured than Chinese. Southern and eastern Thais tend to be more like the Vietnamese. Mongolian Chinese tend to have broader features and are visually less attractive by western standards. I can usually tell Filipinas from Thai women. Of course, intermarriage always changes everything. There is a lot of difference between North American native tribes. West coast natives have an entirely different body shape to the First Nations people from eastern Canada and the USA. I find it a bit odd that people from India have thick body hair but most Asian women from Thailand, Vietnam and the Philippines tend to have very little body hair, even though having thick hair on their heads. Male pattern Baldness tends to be a northern European trait.

[gburns57au]

I don't understand your last comment though? The kind of girls who go to work in bars are not from middle class families.

Gee I was being a little sarcastic in line with some comments here.....On Thaivisa it is hard to find an ex pat who has married a bar girl....most seem to have married the middle class, educated thai girls.....just ask them??

[wintermute]

I also cant work out why all the girls go and work in bars in Thailand, especially as nearly all the ex pats are married to well off, middle income, educated Thai girls.

Are we talking about the same people here? You'll rarely find real chinese-thais in bars. If you do find them in the "working" areas of Bangkok they'll be in high class massage parlors or gentleman's clubs visited by wealthy Thai guys.

In other words, same same, just different name/locations.

Real chinese-thais working in prostitution is still comparatively rare. Most of the "chinese" looking women that work in the massage parlors are actually from the rural areas and are probably mixed with northern Thais or not Thai at all.

[gburns57au]

Just as a bit of a hobby I try to figure out ethnic backgrounds of various Asian groups. You can generalize a bit, but nothing is an exact science. Northern Chinese and Koreans tend to be taller and have paler skin than Asians from more southern countries. Vietnamese and Japanese tend to be smaller and more fine featured than Chinese. Southern and eastern Thais tend to be more like the Vietnamese. Mongolian Chinese tend to have broader features and are visually less attractive by western standards. I can usually tell Filipinas from Thai women. Of course, intermarriage always changes everything. There is a lot of difference between North American native tribes. West coast natives have an entirely different body shape to the First Nations people from eastern Canada and the USA. I find it a bit odd that people from India have thick body hair but most Asian women from Thailand, Vietnam and the Philippines tend to have very little body hair, even though having thick hair on their heads. Male pattern Baldness tends to be a northern European trait.

Now try and apply the same hobby to Thai provinces......I get Surin right pretty much all the time

[inthepink]

I don't understand your last comment though? The kind of girls who go to work in bars are not from middle class families.

Gee I was being a little sarcastic in line with some comments here.....On Thaivisa it is hard to find an ex pat who has married a bar girl....most seem to have married the middle class, educated thai girls.....just ask them??

Righty-ho. That went straight over my head then.

Actually I thought the majority of thaivisa posters were over 60 and living with an ex-bargirl in the sticks, eking out an existence on their pension, but that could just have been a vicious rumour I heard.

Edited August 25, 2010 by inthepink

[gburns57au]

Real chinese-thais working in prostitution is still comparatively rare. Most of the "chinese" looking women that work in the massage parlors are actually from the rural areas and are probably mixed with northern Thais or not Thai at all.

I have met quite a few in Bangkok.....not so many in Pattaya

[wintermute]

I can usually tell Filipinas from Thai women.

Filipinas tend to be larger in physique due to diet etc..

I find it a bit odd that people from India have thick body hair but most Asian women from Thailand, Vietnam and the Philippines tend to have very little body hair, even though having thick hair on their heads. Male pattern Baldness tends to be a northern European trait.

It's not odd at all that Indians have thick body hair. India is traditionally an ancient crossroad mix of Arabs, indigenous tribes, and ethnic nepalese type people. Plus the traditional diet in India and the environment also effects a lot.

It's also fairly difficult for SE Asian men to grow full mustaches and beards. This isn't the case for NE Asians though.

[wintermute]

Real chinese-thais working in prostitution is still comparatively rare. Most of the "chinese" looking women that work in the massage parlors are actually from the rural areas and are probably mixed with northern Thais or not Thai at all.

I have met quite a few in Bangkok.....not so many in Pattaya

Like I said, some women "look" Chinese and may even claim to be so to cater towards that higher level clientele but they usually aren't. Prostitution amongst Thai-Chinese is very much frowned upon and isn't viewed with a blind eye like how some Thais treat it in their community. They stand a good possibility of getting totally ostracized along with their family.

[wolf5370]

My wife (of 12 years and counting) is 1/4 Chinese. Her paternal grandmother was full mainland Chinese with tint wrapped feet and black bettel nut teeth. She died of few years back unfortunatly (not nicely either - stomach cancer!). She was not educated at Oxford (as an earlier post mentions), but went to a private schooland college in Bangkok. Her father was not a Captain of Industry etc, but a Naval officer (now retired). Ask her about her race and she will say "Thai". Her skin was very light when we met, but years of driving without any real concern for the sun (this changed in her about 5 years ago maybe), she has darkened up a bit (especially the right arm - driver's tan!). She's still not dark, but she is not particularly identifiable specifically as sino-thai. She never bothered to learn Mandarin (she was raised by her grandmother on the Thai side while daddy was serving) so it never presented itself when she was young enough. She has very smooth skin, with no hair on her legs or arms (the rest is my business!).

The only way I suppose one could tell is by her presense and her demeanor. Something about her commands respect; she is often taken for hi-so even though she is not (although this may be due to her clothing in some part too I guess). When we lived in the UK, there was a small enclave of Thais in the vaccinity (I never noticed until she came) - it took a while for her to make good friends - one friend told her that they all thought she was hi-so and would not want to mix with them! She is not offish or patronising and these girls had never spoken to her - it was all by visual queues - which they were at a loss to define either. She alwas gets served quickly in shops and is never ignored - indeed, shop assistant graviate towards her from other customers. She doesn't even notice it, but I do and tease her about it soemtimes. Of course all this is just as likely (if not more so) to do with her private schooling than anything else - all her friends were sino-thai and her mother had received two requests to discuss marriage with boys' families from the school/college - which she turned down. In her word, about one of them, 'He was Chinese, he was so slow at everything in school - dumb'.

She is a very strong character and always speaks her mind (sometimes much to my chargrin). This may be due inpart to her training too - she was a newly qualified teacher when we were introduced. We were chaperoned whilst courting which was interesing made me feel like a kid). We met through family and business aquaintences - all Thai.

I have a frind who is half vietnamese, mostly half Thai and also of Chinese descent (a good few generations back) - his family is very wealthy (the Thai-Chinese side) - he calls himself Thai-Chinese and associates with Chinese, Thai-Chinese and farangs. Apparantly his grandfather did not approve of the marriage.

[otherstuff1957]

My wife is 1/4 Chinese (or possibly 1/8 Chinese and 1/8 Lao - Her Grandfather was ethnic Chinese from Lao), 1/4 Malay (the other Grandfather) and 1/2 Thai - one Grandmother from BKK and the other from Nakhon Sri Thammarat.

So, how did this combination turn out? - just look at a typical Malay girl (if there is such a thing).

[mark45y]

Have you really bought all that Thai stuff about being able to identify certain nationalities by character or looks?

Do you all realize how silly it sounds to anyone with any education or common sense or world travel experience?

It is like the guards at Sattahip naval base who only let in Thais. I drove in one day with two Indians, a Filipino and an African.

Gee guys. I am frankly astounded.

[wintermute]

My wife (of 12 years and counting) is 1/4 Chinese.

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of all SE Asians and NE Asians probably have 1/4 Chinese somewhere in their family line. It's like calling white Americans 1/4 British and 1/4 German.

[Johpa]

Define "native Thai" please

Thai is a political designation. When we speak of a "native Thai" we are speaking of not only the political designation but more to a genetic designation, specifically someone whose ancestry is native to Southeast Asia and who uses Thai as a native language, as opposed to someone whose family is from South Asia, East Asia, or Europe. My children are now Thai citizens, they speak Thai and act like Thais. But nobody would describe them as being "native Thai" just as most people do not describe those of East Asian ancestry as being native Thai. On the other hand, my wife comes from a non-Tai indigenous Southeast Asian minority group, speaks Thai as her native tongue (but not her mother tongue)and nobody thinks she is anything other than a "native Thai" and are often quite shocked to hear her speak to her family in the mother tongue.

[wolf5370]

My wife (of 12 years and counting) is 1/4 Chinese.

I'm pretty sure the vast majority of all SE Asians and NE Asians probably have 1/4 Chinese somewhere in their family line. It's like calling white Americans 1/4 British and 1/4 German.

Erm no - as I said, out of 4 grandparents one came for mainland China - one divided by four is a quater - in her case its fact, not a semantic gesture. However, like I said, she calls herself Thai and not Thai-Chinese.

[mark45y]

There isn’t any physical way to measure any difference between a Thai who came from Thailand and a Thai whose ancestors came from China. There is no way to measure how many Chinese ancestors a Thai person has even though he or she thinks all of his ancestors are Thai. So even though someone thinks he knows someone whose ancestors are 25% Chinese the combination of Chinese heritage in his Thai ancestors may add up to be more than 25%. In any event there is no discernable difference between a Thai person or a Chinese person other than language proficiency. The only other difference is in some peoples minds.

You are discussing a subject that has been the meat of bigots since the dawn of time.

Half breeds make pretty babies. If I said half breeds make ugly babies I would be a bigot. But the same is true in the first statement. The only reason people care to talk about their Chinese ancestors is a perceived elevation of status. Which is also bigotry the same as white people in some countries don’t like to talk about black ancestors.

There was a time when Chinese in Thailand were severely persecuted, not so long ago, only 65 years or so and then many people chose not to talk about their Chinese ancestry.

I used to date a Japanese/Chinese girl from Taiwan. Her mother was a captive of a Japanese brothel during WW II. She told everyone she was Chinese.

You don’t see how ill-informed this kind of talk is?

[gburns57au]

Define "native Thai" please

Thai is a political designation. When we speak of a "native Thai" we are speaking of not only the political designation but more to a genetic designation, specifically someone whose ancestry is native to Southeast Asia and who uses Thai as a native language, as opposed to someone whose family is from South Asia, East Asia, or Europe. My children are now Thai citizens, they speak Thai and act like Thais. But nobody would describe them as being "native Thai" just as most people do not describe those of East Asian ancestry as being native Thai. On the other hand, my wife comes from a non-Tai indigenous Southeast Asian minority group, speaks Thai as her native tongue (but not her mother tongue)and nobody thinks she is anything other than a "native Thai" and are often quite shocked to hear her speak to her family in the mother tongue.

Wasnt asking you

[darhut]

There isn't any physical way to measure any difference between a Thai who came from Thailand and a Thai whose ancestors came from China. There is no way to measure how many Chinese ancestors a Thai person has even though he or she thinks all of his ancestors are Thai. So even though someone thinks he knows someone whose ancestors are 25% Chinese the combination of Chinese heritage in his Thai ancestors may add up to be more than 25%. In any event there is no discernable difference between a Thai person or a Chinese person other than language proficiency. The only other difference is in some peoples minds.

You are discussing a subject that has been the meat of bigots since the dawn of time.

Half breeds make pretty babies. If I said half breeds make ugly babies I would be a bigot. But the same is true in the first statement. The only reason people care to talk about their Chinese ancestors is a perceived elevation of status. Which is also bigotry the same as white people in some countries don't like to talk about black ancestors.

There was a time when Chinese in Thailand were severely persecuted, not so long ago, only 65 years or so and then many people chose not to talk about their Chinese ancestry.

I used to date a Japanese/Chinese girl from Taiwan. Her mother was a captive of a Japanese brothel during WW II. She told everyone she was Chinese.

You don't see how ill-informed this kind of talk is?

Maybe Eurasians look more attractive because they look healthier. It could be just a matter of looking for a healthy partner to reproduce with. (I know this has nothing to do with Chinese/thais)

[Tod Daniels]

Ahh, another 4 post newbie, asking biting yet insightful questions about all thingz whacky-n-wonderful here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" . The mind wobbles that this post has run 4 frickin' pages of marginal entertainment. ..

While this post is long, it is of marginal interest none the less. ..

FWIW: A short history lesson is required. If go far enough back in history (real history not the spoon fed rhetoric thai schools cram down the children’s throats nowadays), you will see nearly every thai in this country came from China.

The migration of the original Tai people began during the first few centuries of the Christian era, from what is believed to be the Guizhou and Guangxi areas in southern china, just northeast of present day Vietnam. Between the 5th and 8th centuries the ancestors of the speakers of the Southwestern group of the Tai language settled near the Black River, which runs from southern China into northern Vietnam and northeastern Laos. One group even went as far as the Assam area in the northeast corner of India. Some moved along the Mekong River and settled in Laos and northern Thailand, yet even others went further south and settled in northeastern Thailand. By the 13th century Tais had already settled many parts of present day thailand. At that time, thais for the most part, were only in several VERY small areas of present day thailand. Although NEVER mention to a thai that Bangkok was Khmer land once as they tend to come unhinged at this thought, and NEVER EVER say that almost all eastern thailand was Burma as that unhinges them too! Consider yourself warned! . Thais were mostly in Sukothai in central thailand, Lan Na & Payao, in the north). As the Ankor and Burman empires declined in power and lost their stranglehold on the region this changed until the thais hacked out what is mostly present day thailand.

So like I said, go back far enough in time and ALL thais are of Chinese ancestry.

But enough of the history lesson, and kudos for people who’ve read this far;

It is my experience the average, run-of-the-mill foreign miscreant, err I meant foreign expat, is unlikely to ever have any meaningful dialog with the plethora of rich, hi-so, white skinned, uni-educated thai-nese (thai-chinese) which populate this country.

True, you may catch a glimpse of them in their natural habitat, during their weekly shopping forays at Siam Paragon, Emporium, Gaysorn. You will also see them in every television commercial, or on every b/s thai soap opera. You will however, rarely see them in vehicles; due to the black out tinting they use on their multi-million baht face-gaining ‘status symbol’ modes of transportation.

That someone would make a post about one's ability at discerning between what ever the O/P means by 'native thais' and the 'thai-nese' (many who've been here for GENERATIONS and are just as much thai as anyone else) shows the fixation foreigners have with this 'breed' of people, (the thai-nese I mean).

I feel even worse now too, that I found it necessary to reply to this thread.

[StreetCowboy]

Ahh, another 4 post newbie, asking biting yet insightful questions about all thingz whacky-n-wonderful here in the glorious "Land 'O Thais" . The mind wobbles that this post has run 4 frickin' pages of marginal entertainment. ..

While this post is long, it is of marginal interest none the less. ..

FWIW: A short history lesson is required. If go far enough back in history (real history not the spoon fed rhetoric thai schools cram down the children's throats nowadays), you will see nearly every thai in this country came from China.

The migration of the original Tai people began during the first few centuries of the Christian era, from what is believed to be the Guizhou and Guangxi areas in southern china, just northeast of present day Vietnam. Between the 5th and 8th centuries the ancestors of the speakers of the Southwestern group of the Tai language settled near the Black River, which runs from southern China into northern Vietnam and northeastern Laos. One group even went as far as the Assam area in the northeast corner of India. Some moved along the Mekong River and settled in Laos and northern Thailand, yet even others went further south and settled in northeastern Thailand. By the 13th century Tais had already settled many parts of present day thailand. At that time, thais for the most part, were only in several VERY small areas of present day thailand. Although NEVER mention to a thai that Bangkok was Khmer land once as they tend to come unhinged at this thought, and NEVER EVER say that almost all eastern thailand was Burma as that unhinges them too! Consider yourself warned! . Thais were mostly in Sukothai in central thailand, Lan Na & Payao, in the north). As the Ankor and Burman empires declined in power and lost their stranglehold on the region this changed until the thais hacked out what is mostly present day thailand.

So like I said, go back far enough in time and ALL thais are of Chinese ancestry.

But enough of the history lesson, and kudos for people who've read this far;

It is my experience the average, run-of-the-mill foreign miscreant, err I meant foreign expat, is unlikely to ever have any meaningful dialog with the plethora of rich, hi-so, white skinned, uni-educated thai-nese (thai-chinese) which populate this country.

True, you may catch a glimpse of them in their natural habitat, during their weekly shopping forays at Siam Paragon, Emporium, Gaysorn. You will also see them in every television commercial, or on every b/s thai soap opera. You will however, rarely see them in vehicles; due to the black out tinting they use on their multi-million baht face-gaining 'status symbol' modes of transportation.

That someone would make a post about one's ability at discerning between what ever the O/P means by 'native thais' and the 'thai-nese' (many who've been here for GENERATIONS and are just as much thai as anyone else) shows the fixation foreigners have with this 'breed' of people, (the thai-nese I mean).

I feel even worse now too, that I found it necessary to reply to this thread.

You certainly did a good job perpetuating the stereotypes.

I reckon its easy to tell the Thai Chinese - they have Chinese script above their store and they speak Thai. Having said that, I've never actually asked the owner of such a store whether he was Thai Chinese, Chinese, or aboriginal Thai. The chap I accidentally started speaking Chinese to in the market, I'm guessing was Chinese immigrant - I don't know how many of the Thai Chinese speak Chinese...

SC

[MidoriApple]

Interesting thread really..just like one time I wondered how to know his/her nationality when a Caucasian come pass by.

For me, I cannot 100% seeing differ for pure Thai and Thai-Chinese. Usually I see from their looks. Small eyes, straight hair, pale skin.. How they speak/talk..etc. But many times I missed too.. Some Chinese can have dark skin and look similar to pure Thai.

I am pure chinese, which means my papa and mama are both Chinese, I never called myself as a Chinese but Thai. I think we Overseas chinese also have some different characteristics from Chinese in chinaland, so they don't count us as same nationality.

[Peterbigeyes]

You certainly did a good job perpetuating the stereotypes.

I reckon its easy to tell the Thai Chinese - they have Chinese script above their store and they speak Thai. Having said that, I've never actually asked the owner of such a store whether he was Thai Chinese, Chinese, or aboriginal Thai. The chap I accidentally started speaking Chinese to in the market, I'm guessing was Chinese immigrant - I don't know how many of the Thai Chinese speak Chinese...

SC

I believe most do. A friend's wife whose parents had a trace of chinese ancestry speak fairly fluent mandarin and so does most of her generation in the family tree

Edited August 26, 2010 by Peterbigeyes