Thai Cabinet To Consider Sex Harassment Regulations For Civil Servants

[webfact]

Cabinet to consider sex harassment regulations for civil servants

By Sathien Viriyapanpongsa

The Nation

The Office of the Civil Service Commission (OCSC) will propose draft legislation to the Cabinet today to try to prevent sexual harassment at state offices.

Offences under the new regulations that could cause civil servants to be punished include kissing someone, holding another's hands, telling dirty jokes to someone who doesn't want to hear them, and sending pornographic mail or e-mails.

OCSC legal official Pirun Pienlertlam said regulations to be issued under the Civil Service Act 2008 covered five types of behaviour deemed to be sexual harassment in the workplace.

First was sexual or physical contact, such as kissing, holding or touching certain parts of the body.

Second was sexualised talk, such as criticising or joking about body parts and telling dirty jokes to an unwilling audience.

Third was sexual gestures, such as looking at others in a "sexual" manner. Fourth was communication with sexual content such as sending letters, messages or e-mails with pornographic content. Fifth was other actions deemed sexual and disturbing to others.

Pirun said the regulations would cover state officials and people assisting the civil service. People "damaged" by such behaviour could file a complaint to supervisors, who would be authorised to assign officials via verbal or written orders.

If complaints were deemed to have grounds, a disciplinary committee would be set up to find out facts for judgement and determine appropriate punishment.

The OCSC would publish handbooks for distribution to civil servants once the rules were approved so people could understand what actions are deemed to be sexual harassment.

OCSC secretary-general Benjawan Salangnintara said the regulations would cover 381,000 state officials at 19 ministries and the offices of provincial governor offices nationwide. They would not cover teachers, educational personnel, university staff, members of the Army, police officials or judges.

She expressed pride that the regulations were finally being put forward for implementation, saying that female officials had often been afraid to file sexual-harassment complaints.

She hoped the new rules would help encourage women to come forward if they had problems. She said offenders would be fired from the civil service if found guilty of severe sexual harassment.

-- The Nation 2010-08-31

[Tropicalevo]

My first thoughts when I saw the headline were "Oh my goodness, they are going to make it compulsory."

For goodness sake - why make the legislation ONLY to cover government offices? It should be everywhere!

Only in Thailand

[exterminator]

My first thoughts when I saw the headline were "Oh my goodness, they are going to make it compulsory."

For goodness sake - why make the legislation ONLY to cover government offices? It should be everywhere!

Only in Thailand

About time! They got to start from SOMEWHERE.....hope it takes off. Not a NATO........

[Robby nz]

Well that leave a lot up to personal interpretation, for instance:

Third was sexual gestures, such as looking at others in a "sexual" manner.

Seems just about anything could be used as a complaint against someone you dont like.

Anyway how do you prove that 'she looked at me in a sexual way'

[toybits]

This should be applied throughout the Kingdom. wink wink...

[Thai at Heart]

My first thoughts when I saw the headline were "Oh my goodness, they are going to make it compulsory."

For goodness sake - why make the legislation ONLY to cover government offices? It should be everywhere!

Only in Thailand

It cannot and will never be implemented everywhere as long as there is a massage industry. Do the owners want to give these girls rights?

I could just see the girls and the BIB frog marching a load of sweaty farangs out of Nana for "sexual harrassment in the workplace." What an earner that would be for a short while.

[hoaker]

Wow, never thought this would be a new thing in the twenty first century. Lets go start verbal harassment toteachers, educational personnel, university staff, members of the Army, police officials or judges cause supposedly harassment is ok for this group and yet Benjawan is so proud that this is finally being implemented.

Only in Thailand where men are not created equal!!!

[Piengrudee]

Once my farang boss slap my bottom with a file. I think it was a friendly slap. However I felt quite unease, so I took the courage to tell him after 3 days. He never did it again, plus I got my promotion this year too. So, don't be afraid and speak up.

[Canada]

You gotta be kidding. This flies in the face of the basis of Thai (class) society. Exploit the exploitable by whatever means available or preferred. The underlying, unifying fabric that holds this country together and helps it turn a profit is sexual exploitation. This is like saying " we are drafting a bill that will prohibit corruption".....in a society that relies on corruption.

Funny, some of the headlines that come out on Thai Visa

Edited August 31, 2010 by Canada

[damian5000]

Well that leave a lot up to personal interpretation, for instance:

Third was sexual gestures, such as looking at others in a "sexual" manner.

Seems just about anything could be used as a complaint against someone you dont like.

Anyway how do you prove that 'she looked at me in a sexual way'

Exactly... This is not good news. Someone who doesn't want to be touched, yes I understand that. But these laws tend to bounce the other way dramatically where it gives the supposedly 'offended' a huge club to use however and whenever they want. Flirting is part of being human. It's natural and it's healthy and if it goes too far (in case man towards a woman), slap the jerk. Business attire for females usually includes some sort of v-neck top and a skirt, and beyond that they're the fairer species for a reason. Females don't look the way they do for nothing.

Get fired for what looking at or even flirting with what 6 billion years of evolution has coded us to do? F off. Go back to England or America if you like it like that.

[zthyadat]

Well that leave a lot up to personal interpretation, for instance:

Third was sexual gestures, such as looking at others in a "sexual" manner.

Seems just about anything could be used as a complaint against someone you dont like.

Anyway how do you prove that 'she looked at me in a sexual way'

I believe it is called "leering" and it is an expression everyone recognises, though difficult to prove without witnesses and multiple incidents. Laws are supposed to be based what is right, not on how easy it is to enforce them.

And I suppose now one have to preface one's blue comedy routine with "Hey! Who wants to hear a really filthy joke?!"

[zthyadat]

Once my farang boss slap my bottom with a file. I think it was a friendly slap. However I felt quite unease, so I took the courage to tell him after 3 days. He never did it again, plus I got my promotion this year too. So, don't be afraid and speak up.

That's amazing Piengrudee - especially considering you are actually a farang man masquerading as an attractive young Thai woman.

[Hakuchi]

Once my farang boss slap my bottom with a file. I think it was a friendly slap. However I felt quite unease, so I took the courage to tell him after 3 days. He never did it again, plus I got my promotion this year too. So, don't be afraid and speak up.

That's amazing Piengrudee - especially considering you are actually a farang man masquerading as an attractive young Thai woman.

not all farang bosses are interested in the bottoms of young women. nor are women the only victims of sexual harassment.

[rich54321]

<STRONG>The Office of the Civil Service Commission (OCSC) will propose draft legislation to the Cabinet today to try to prevent sexual harassment at state offices.<BR><BR>ONLY PROPOSE A DRAFT - to TRY TO PREVENT - in STATE OFFICES<BR></STRONG><BR>What nonesense as usual<BR>

[chmiroau]

Wow, never thought this would be a new thing in the twenty first century. Lets go start verbal harassment toteachers, educational personnel, university staff, members of the Army, police officials or judges cause supposedly harassment is ok for this group and yet Benjawan is so proud that this is finally being implemented.

Only in Thailand where men are not created equal!!!

ARE YOU SERIOUS! What country do you ocme from?

In many countries where such laws have been applied in a blanket way, it is the men that are usually if not always the culprits transgressing this ambiguious law. If a woman in Aus touches a man on the bum, she was just playing, the other way round, it is sexual. The gender inequality is rife in all countries where these laws exist. Should this come into place here and not be closely monitored ofr gender equality, then well it is a road well trodden and the story isn't good.

Look at what these laws have done to modern civalised countries, and you will see that the people are no way near as happy as they should be. I don'know how this is going to make the Thai people any happier.

This is not as serious an issue as the level of poverty here, where a government official still usually earns about 15k per month, while the government heads, well the skys the limits.

Surely 206 bart per 8 hour day, with no government protection for job security is more important that a glance that could be misconstrude as sexual!

[zthyadat]

Well that leave a lot up to personal interpretation, for instance:

Third was sexual gestures, such as looking at others in a "sexual" manner.

Seems just about anything could be used as a complaint against someone you dont like.

Anyway how do you prove that 'she looked at me in a sexual way'

Exactly... This is not good news. Someone who doesn't want to be touched, yes I understand that. But these laws tend to bounce the other way dramatically where it gives the supposedly 'offended' a huge club to use however and whenever they want. Flirting is part of being human. It's natural and it's healthy and if it goes too far (in case man towards a woman), slap the jerk. Business attire for females usually includes some sort of v-neck top and a skirt, and beyond that they're the fairer species for a reason. Females don't look the way they do for nothing.

Get fired for what looking at or even flirting with what 6 billion years of evolution has coded us to do? F off. Go back to England or America if you like it like that.

Oooohh, sounds like some people came out here specifically to get away from such rules... Seems fair enough to me if the woman gets sick of some slobbering old goat in the office leering away at her, and making "flirtatious" remarks. If the flirting isn't mutual, it isn't flirting, it's harassment. By the way, '6 billion years of evolution' has also coded us to rape the women of rival tribes, but that is against the law too - in most countries.

It does seem to me though that the handbook should specify that the object (or 'victim') of the harassment should let the person know their attentions are unwanted before they go running to the boss to file a complaint. Fair's fair - the guy may be too insensitivew to realise he is annoying the woman and making a fool of himself, so should get the opportunity to sort out his behaviour without his job being at risk.

You know, when new legislation was brought in, a lot of guys in Canada didn't understand why they could get in trouble with the law for hooting at women out of cars at 2 in the morning "Hey baby where you going?! You need a ride home?!" They'd protest that they meant no harm - it was just innocent fun and further that the girls were stuck up bitches for getting annoyed by it. What the guys failed to realise was that it frightened the women, and also that they suffer this crap all the time and feel bullied by it.

And yes, there is always one woman at the office with an axe to grind who decides to start laying charges on everyone, but that soon finds its balance. People like that don't get taken very seriously in the end - nobody wants to promote them to their department because they are dangerous. In fact, in Thailand I think the hardest part will be getting any of the complaints taken seriously. There are some big shifts in mentality for most of the men here to understand how some of their behaviour might just be considered a bit abusive, not just "boys being boys".

[zthyadat]

Wow, never thought this would be a new thing in the twenty first century. Lets go start verbal harassment toteachers, educational personnel, university staff, members of the Army, police officials or judges cause supposedly harassment is ok for this group and yet Benjawan is so proud that this is finally being implemented.

Only in Thailand where men are not created equal!!!

ARE YOU SERIOUS! What country do you ocme from?

In many countries where such laws have been applied in a blanket way, it is the men that are usually if not always the culprits transgressing this ambiguious law. If a woman in Aus touches a man on the bum, she was just playing, the other way round, it is sexual. The gender inequality is rife in all countries where these laws exist. Should this come into place here and not be closely monitored ofr gender equality, then well it is a road well trodden and the story isn't good.

Look at what these laws have done to modern civalised countries, and you will see that the people are no way near as happy as they should be. I don'know how this is going to make the Thai people any happier.

This is not as serious an issue as the level of poverty here, where a government official still usually earns about 15k per month, while the government heads, well the skys the limits.

Surely 206 bart per 8 hour day, with no government protection for job security is more important that a glance that could be misconstrude as sexual!

Legislation isn't necessarily about creating happiness amongst the general masses... But in the case of someone getting persistently harassed and having no recourse, such legislation can make a few people less miserable.

By the way, are you serious that in Australia you couldn't lay a complaint against a female employee for grabbing your bum? I doubt that somehow - unless Australian law really does have separate rules for men and women.

You know, men are usually the culprits in these new laws because the vast majority of such actions is committed by men. There are exceptions, but this behaviour stems from men bullying women and holding them down for hundreds if not thousands of years. Old habits die hard.

Edited August 31, 2010 by zthyadat

[rubl]

The OP doesn't state it explicitly and in the last few paragraphs only relates to harassment of female staff. In my innocence I assume that also harassment of men by females is covered? Or any other combination for what it matters?

Edited August 31, 2010 by rubl

[TPI]

ARE YOU SERIOUS! What country do you ocme from?

In many countries where such laws have been applied in a blanket way, it is the men that are usually if not always the culprits transgressing this ambiguious law. If a woman in Aus touches a man on the bum, she was just playing, the other way round, it is sexual. The gender inequality is rife in all countries where these laws exist. Should this come into place here and not be closely monitored ofr gender equality, then well it is a road well trodden and the story isn't good.

Look at what these laws have done to modern civalised countries, and you will see that the people are no way near as happy as they should be. I don'know how this is going to make the Thai people any happier.

This is not as serious an issue as the level of poverty here, where a government official still usually earns about 15k per month, while the government heads, well the skys the limits.

Surely 206 bart per 8 hour day, with no government protection for job security is more important that a glance that could be misconstrude as sexual!

Legislation isn't necessarily about creating happiness amongst the general masses... But in the case of someone getting persistently harassed and having no recourse, such legislation can make a few people less miserable.

By the way, are you serious that in Australia you couldn't lay a complaint against a female employee for grabbing your bum? I doubt that somehow - unless Australian law really does have separate rules for men and women.

You know, men are usually the culprits in these new laws because the vast majority of such actions is committed by men. There are exceptions, but this behaviour stems from men bullying women and holding them down for hundreds if not thousands of years. Old habits die hard.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but, when the law was implimented in Oz there was a rush of litigates to the court, nearly all women! When the dust had settled you could see that the punishments didn't fit the crime and that merely being brought before the court was enough to destroy most defendants career and home lifes........most plaintiffs walked out of court.....wheather they won or lost....and trotted off on their merry way while the defendant was proffessionally and socially ruined!

I think that "assault laws" should be enough to protect the innocent?

How will this law fit in with the ridiculous libel laws in this country, where, even if you're right...you're wrong!

[hyperdimension]

This would be bad news for lonely office ladies who want to be approached by men (including those who are in more senior positions) in the hope of having a relationship (possibly leading to marriage).

[Piengrudee]

"Not all farang bosses are interested in the bottoms of young women". I have to agree. In fact I knew for a fact that most farang boss are interested in the bottoms of young MEN. Take the Russian conductor as an example.

[slapout]

Well the police are exempt as are a few other groups and a committee will be formed to determine punishment. We sure would not blanket coverage for all groups nor would we want to set punishment guidelines along with the described offenses. I think this is what some people may refer to, as a job done half arse.

[Loz]

Sexual Harasment is an integral part of the promotion process. They will have to think this through carefully or women who who complain will be easy to identify as they will be the ones who's career never quite takes off!

Also, the idea that "reporting it to your supervisor" is going to help is joke as the supervisor is the most likely culprit! And as he (like as not) "bought" his job from his supervisor, its unlikely that going over his head will help

or is short hand: what utter borrox!

Can't wait to see the racism bill..

[asiawatcher]

My first thoughts when I saw the headline were "Oh my goodness, they are going to make it compulsory."

For goodness sake - why make the legislation ONLY to cover government offices? It should be everywhere!

Only in Thailand

Exactly - why stop at public servants? Are they somehow above the rest of society?

[TAWP]

Kissing and holding hands...is this against an unwilling person?

[TAWP]

Kissing and holding hands...is this against an unwilling person?

Anyone know?

Edited September 3, 2010 by TAWP