Girl Friend Or Her Dad

[dumball]

Having learned during my many years in Thailand that a loan is not a loan to them , but thought of as a gift , even B100 is rarely if ever returned even by people you have known a long time , before making a loan I ALWAYS asked for collateral and put a time frame on it for the return of the money , it still rarely came back . As has been noted already , Thai live in only the short time sphere of the right now , offer to give them $5.00 now , $5,000.00 next week if they wait and guess what , they take the $5.00 now .

The ladies occupation is often shopping/sleeping/eating , mostly in that order , it is very difficult to break that often life time frame of thinking , sorry , did I mention 'Thinking'? Not on the agenda , unless it is the " Right now " agenda , even when I have told a beggar to come back later as I have no change right now , they never come back .

Despite a long time relationship where you have been a good provider to a person from a poor family , when it comes down to the nitty-gritty , family gets the precedence , they cannot see beyond the moment what they stand to lose should you leave/throw her out , just move back to the village .

I have found it difficult to understand expats who blithly pass off being ripped off as "It is their culture"' , What does that make them , the expats ? Morons who have more money than sense or mere clay to be molded in the hands of a user ? Sorry , I am not either and never will be .

[robblok]

In Thailand, family comes first. The sooner you realize that the better. Sounds like your girlfriend was under pressure from family to scam you. and, in Thailand, that is not considered wrong. Live and learn. Luckily, 27,000 baht is not a huge loss and a fairly cheap lesson. What doesn't kill or maim us makes us stronger and wiser.

what a crock of BS... the G/F knows very dam_n well that if she scams her BF that is wrong... asking for a temporary loan for a car and not paying back is wrong and they probably know that very dam_n well some people here talk like thai people are like monkeys or from another planet...

like i said... bad sign ! if my girl pulls a stunt like this she better be looking for a new place.. either ask for the money and be honest or dont how can u trust someone who tricks her own BF

No, it is NOT BS. It is the Thai way of thinking. The girlfriend was caught between helping her family and hoping the OP would go along with it. She was hoping that everything would work out, but had no idea how it would. As I've said many times, it is a Buddhist way of thinking. Poor Thais have no concept of time or payment. They live in the now and don't consider the future. Buddha is supposed to take care of that.

Not to comment you too much Ian but you hang around a really strange kind of girls. My gf knows not to trust her family with money because she got burned a few times and would not think of stunts like this. Not all Thai girls are the same. Some do put their bf before the family. Mother wanted a sin sod.. she never got it. Mother wanted a loan.. she never got it.. I don't mind loaning someone if i think i get the money back.. But seeing that my gf struggles to get money back she loans i don't do it. She even broke down one day saying her family only come to her for money nothing else. They forget her birthdates but expect her to pay diner for them on their birthday. So you cant say all Thai girls are the same.

The girls i meet are usually more educated and self sufficient in their income (no not thai chinese just Thai)

[robblok]

double

Edited September 1, 2010 by robblok

[robblok]

it was actually 270.000 bt trade in price,not 27000, well i suppose i am washing laundry in public, i just find it difficult to understand how women Thai women go down this road of deceit for what ever reason, my g/f wants for nothing educated good job committed to the company she works for, her family are not poor farmers they run successful business's rent out several properties so i think its not about the money for her family, after almost 6 years together she nows only to well i will not stand for any under handedness in any shape or form, its why i washing my laundry here maybe somebody can help me and others to understand why these acts of deceit go on,( that is somebody who is wise in the ways of thai family and not just a one line joker)

i hate to admit it to my self, the more i think about it the more i think the g/f has made a bad error of judgment in only trying to help out her family in some way,or even boasting,I'm having a new car ,you can have my old car,

If I may point out you errors in thinking.

1) Thai lady only thinks of today, today she can get a 270,000bht car for nothing, tomorrow you might leave, but if you lease she still has 270,000bht (5 years wages)

2) I must assume the car was in her name (as you haven't mentioned all the paperwork) so it was already her car, to do with what she will.

3) Thai lady think what most important to me? answer a) parents, children, c) pets, d) village, e) former Thai bfs, f) foreign bf (or something like that)

If you think the relationship is worth 270k you stay with her, if you think it isn't, you leave.

The Thai ladies always assume that tomorrow you will leave, this is what they learn from prior experience and all their friends, I don't think you can ever change this. My concern for you now is ........ whose name is the new car in?

And finally (to make you feel better a little story about my MIL I found out this week)

In the village a few years back my mother in law was given some land (by her husband). Neither of them could read or write so they got their daughter (not my wife) to fill in all the paperwork for them, whose name did she put down as the new owner .... her own of course, stole the land from her own mother.

As Mulder says "Trust No One"

Seems you guys really hang out with the wrong kind of girl. Think that is what you get if you fish outside of the range you can normally get. Then they are out for financial compensation anyway they can get. Its ok as long as you realize that.

[PattayaParent]

it was actually 270.000 bt trade in price,not 27000, well i suppose i am washing laundry in public, i just find it difficult to understand how women Thai women go down this road of deceit for what ever reason, my g/f wants for nothing educated good job committed to the company she works for, her family are not poor farmers they run successful business's rent out several properties so i think its not about the money for her family, after almost 6 years together she nows only to well i will not stand for any under handedness in any shape or form, its why i washing my laundry here maybe somebody can help me and others to understand why these acts of deceit go on,( that is somebody who is wise in the ways of thai family and not just a one line joker)

i hate to admit it to my self, the more i think about it the more i think the g/f has made a bad error of judgment in only trying to help out her family in some way,or even boasting,I'm having a new car ,you can have my old car,

I reckon the trouble is that you did not explain your plans adequately to your girlfriend, and did not listen to any hints she might have been making along the way.

Presumably her father could not put his hands on quarter of a million at the drop of a hat, and had not had time to plan how he was going to find that sort of money - presumably he had never had a chance to comment on whether he could afford that or not...it sounds like a piece of poor planning and inadequate communication all round, but quite possibly a perfectly honest mistake, that no-one will admit to because it would result in loss of face.

I am going through a similar thing with my dear old mother at the moment...

SC

So what happened to the money from the recent sale of the 12 month old truck I wonder?

Doesn't sound like inadequate communication, poor planning or an honest mistake to me.

[GarryP]

I would be sorely pissed off. But then again, through experience, I would not have allowed the car to be moved from my house until money was in hand. I willl not give loans to anyone either, nor will my wife. We have both learned our lesson there. Friends and family tend to remain on very good terms when money is not involved. When money becomes involved those relationships very quickly breakdown. Sad but true.

Hope you get to the bottom of what has really happened. I mean you cannot be pis8ed off at the gf's father if she gave it to him. You need to sort out who said what to who and what was promised and when.

[spud1]

I,m not sure how you have let yourself be succumbed to releasing the car without payment.I personally wouldn't let these type of shenanigans happen with my own family members,I have no doubts

if you confront your G/F about the situation she will eventually turn aggressive and all the blame will be turned on your good self.This will be followed by a period of the silent treatment.I can only

imagine it's going to put a strain on your relationship.The only way to resolve the problem would be to forget about it,to which I think is impossible.Good luck.

[neverdie]

OP. Its easy for people to say this and that to you and offer all the best advice, but this time you are the one in the hotseat.

I agree with spud above, this situation involving 270k has the potential to cause alot of problems. Its alot of money for anyone, lets face it if you were walking to the shops and dropped 270k, no matter who you were you would quickly scurry along the path looking for your cash.

Make no mistake about this, a fair bit of thought has gone into this entire transaction, its just nobody thought to include you in the decision making process, afterall you're only the finanicier. This is not acceptable but now you are left to deal with this no matter how foul the taste is in your mouth. I urge you to put yourself first and don't let this sort of rubbish happen again & if you have any position regarding the new car then perhaps you should also exercise that.

[Chunky1]

Just tell the family car is sin sod. problem solved.

I didn't pay any sin sot.

[Chunky1]

When are you going to go get your car back OP?

[Chunky1]

name was transferred? he doesn't mention that in op

[IanForbes]

27,000 is unfortunate, but something most of us can live with. 270,000 is far worse and pretty much ends any kind of relationship for the future. It's a tough loss and would be hard for anyone. It's why I always say... never a lender or borrower be. In Thailand you have to consider ANYTHING you loan to someone as a gift. If you get something back then well and good, but don't expect it. Time to start selling off what you can and hit the road. And, do it quietly without any discussion or warning. No turning back.

[AAACEEE]

OUCH 270K ???

MAN thats a waste off money !! i can have allot off fun for that money here in BKK

[Kilgore Trout]

it was actually 270.000 bt trade in price,not 27000, well i suppose i am washing laundry in public, i just find it difficult to understand how women Thai women go down this road of deceit for what ever reason, my g/f wants for nothing educated good job committed to the company she works for, her family are not poor farmers they run successful business's rent out several properties so i think its not about the money for her family, after almost 6 years together she nows only to well i will not stand for any under handedness in any shape or form, its why i washing my laundry here maybe somebody can help me and others to understand why these acts of deceit go on,( that is somebody who is wise in the ways of thai family and not just a one line joker)

i hate to admit it to my self, the more i think about it the more i think the g/f has made a bad error of judgment in only trying to help out her family in some way,or even boasting,I'm having a new car ,you can have my old car,

This crap about Thai culture is BS; Thais know the difference between right and wrong.

You are right; there is probably something going on you don't know about or she is just of low moral character. You are probably just going to have to confront them and demand the truth; or just shut up and forget about it. Hey; 270k is a lot of money where I come from. As they say; up to you :jap:

[StreetCowboy]

But the 270,000 was never there. That was the discount the vendor of the new motor was willing to offer for trade-in; not an estimate of the real value of the car that the OP gave to his father. Presumably it was worth a good deal less than that, hence why the OP's FIL is unwilling to fork out over the odds for a motor that his daughter said was surplus to requirements. I imagine the vendor of the new motor is creasing himself laughing, having sold the new motor at near list price when he was willing to offer a discount of quarter of a million against the OP's previous Heap.

It's good to talk, and better to listen... I'm surprised the FIL has not been on to explain why he's hired a hitman after being bad-mouthed in a public forum - he does speak English and have internet access, doesn't he?

SC

[mca]

When reading these kind of threads a thought must go through a person's mind. Is this person really the person I'm going to spend the rest of my life with? My potential wife? My partner? Possibly the mother of my children? Somebody who shows me this much disrespect?

[prakhonchai nick]

How long I wonder before Dad sells his new car.

[Kwasaki]

it was actually 270.000 bt trade in price,not 27000, well i suppose i am washing laundry in public, i just find it difficult to understand how women Thai women go down this road of deceit for what ever reason, my g/f wants for nothing educated good job committed to the company she works for, her family are not poor farmers they run successful business's rent out several properties so i think its not about the money for her family, after almost 6 years together she nows only to well i will not stand for any under handedness in any shape or form, its why i washing my laundry here maybe somebody can help me and others to understand why these acts of deceit go on,( that is somebody who is wise in the ways of thai family and not just a one line joker)

i hate to admit it to my self, the more i think about it the more i think the g/f has made a bad error of judgment in only trying to help out her family in some way,or even boasting,I'm having a new car ,you can have my old car,

After six years of being together you really should know " whats it all about Alfie" to put this personal problem here is asking for one line jokers.

I think you have already had all the advice you are going to get: : if you don't take it my advice is take the ' r ' out your post name.

Edited September 1, 2010 by Kwasaki

[Beetlejuice]

it was actually 270.000 bt trade in price,not 27000, well i suppose i am washing laundry in public, i just find it difficult to understand how women Thai women go down this road of deceit for what ever reason, my g/f wants for nothing educated good job committed to the company she works for, her family are not poor farmers they run successful business's rent out several properties so i think its not about the money for her family, after almost 6 years together she nows only to well i will not stand for any under handedness in any shape or form, its why i washing my laundry here maybe somebody can help me and others to understand why these acts of deceit go on,( that is somebody who is wise in the ways of thai family and not just a one line joker)

i hate to admit it to my self, the more i think about it the more i think the g/f has made a bad error of judgment in only trying to help out her family in some way,or even boasting,I'm having a new car ,you can have my old car,

I only have one word to say to you:

EXTRICATE.

[Chunky1]

But the 270,000 was never there. That was the discount the vendor of the new motor was willing to offer for trade-in; not an estimate of the real value of the car that the OP gave to his father. Presumably it was worth a good deal less than that, hence why the OP's FIL is unwilling to fork out over the odds for a motor that his daughter said was surplus to requirements. I imagine the vendor of the new motor is creasing himself laughing, having sold the new motor at near list price when he was willing to offer a discount of quarter of a million against the OP's previous Heap.

It's good to talk, and better to listen... I'm surprised the FIL has not been on to explain why he's hired a hitman after being bad-mouthed in a public forum - he does speak English and have internet access, doesn't he?

SC

this is all wrong. a dealer will offer less than book value. duh.

[BigPanda]

Sounds like my ex girlfriend...

[uptoyoumyfriend]

in any case you can write off the 270 k .the consensus of the posts show just what i think my self - the car is gone,and even if the bf comes first the gf will never have a standoff with the parents,if you force her to do that than you're choking your relationship. this is Thailand. in all your dealings with the family you have to remember the children's obligation towards the parents and sad as it is it could have been more expensive a lesson . if you want to continue here you have to lie and finagle too.you should have told her and them that you just don't have enough to buy the new car without the trade in. the gf does not need to see your bankbook / finances ever.you are the man .you are to tell her whats's happening, if you are not willing to act that way then there are only two alternatives leave or continue to get sucked dry/feel bad.

Edited September 1, 2010 by uptoyoumyfriend

[StreetCowboy]

But the 270,000 was never there. That was the discount the vendor of the new motor was willing to offer for trade-in; not an estimate of the real value of the car that the OP gave to his father. Presumably it was worth a good deal less than that, hence why the OP's FIL is unwilling to fork out over the odds for a motor that his daughter said was surplus to requirements. I imagine the vendor of the new motor is creasing himself laughing, having sold the new motor at near list price when he was willing to offer a discount of quarter of a million against the OP's previous Heap.

It's good to talk, and better to listen... I'm surprised the FIL has not been on to explain why he's hired a hitman after being bad-mouthed in a public forum - he does speak English and have internet access, doesn't he?

SC

this is all wrong. a dealer will offer less than book value. duh.

No - the dealer offers a good deal on the trade-in rather than offer a discount on the new car, so that the OP does not tell his mates "I managed to get this for quarter of a million less than asking price" and they all come wanting a discount. If he'd not been buying a new car, the dealer would have said "Well, it needs so much work doing, you'd almost be as well scrapping it. I suppose our workshop is quiet, so I can offer you a little, but I'm really just buying the work...". As it is, the dealer had probably aready arranged to sell it to the FIL for 150K, but this way, when the FIL finally agrees to pay 100K towards to the OP, everyone will be happy, and we can all have a good chuckle and crack open a case of Chang. Until the FIL reads all the cruel words on the internet and suddenly doesn't see the funny side any more, and nor do his mates from the kitchens...

SC

[Forethat]

You spend 27k on a car for the GFs dad? It's family for crying out loud, why are you being so cheap?

I tell you what; call her old man, first apologize and then tell him you're buying him some decent wheels next week.

He has corrected the sum. It was 270k

Oh. Sorry, I missed that.

Hmmm, there's a Buddhist say "dont speak unless silence is improved", in this case that is the lesson for me.

In case of the OP, your lesson was more expensive. To prove I didn't learn a thing from MY lesson I will recommend OP not to provide opportunities like this to a Thai in the future. In my opinion Thais don't come up with scams like this on purpose, they take advantage of things like this because the situtation presents itself to them. He probably didn't do this on purpose, he may even keep in mind that he must pay for the car, but right now he can find better use for the money, and after 30 years this is likely to be the case. But he never meant to scam anyone.

Kiss your 270k goodbye.

Edited September 1, 2010 by Forethat

[Thakkar]

The FIL helped himself to a 270k car. You know that Sin Sod bullet you happily thought you had dodged? Well, think again.

Asian women, born and brought up in Asia, apart from the few that are thoroughly Westernized, marry for reasons of which 'love' is but one, and only a minor one at that. These other reasons include: security, desire for family and motherhood, societal expectations, family expectations (and eventually, family pressure, and finally, family ultimatum) and companionship.

When a Thai woman moves in with a Westerner, he might assume that she's embraced the Western notion of love and companionship divorced from all those other notions. She, her family and her social circle (and yes, it's a collective) assume it's the man that's embraced Thai notions. She expects to make major compromises and adjustments, but not on the core issues of filial piety and visibly meeting the expectations of her social circle.

Look at it from the father's perspective (and perhaps applies even to the gf): OP's been sucking at the teats of the family cow for 6 years. He refuses to buy the cow, sire offspring or materially secure the cow's future for when she'll be all dried up and of no use to anyone. What's she to do if one day the man just buggers off, or, god forbid, dies in a car crash? It's crude thinking and not the way it should be, but that's the way it is. In case you haven't noticed, Asian women are different from Western women. I read on TV how so many western men have come to Thailand seeking a different kind of woman, someone gentler, more attentive to their needs. Well, to a large extent, it's a package deal; you can't pick and choose only the traits you want.

She was probably giddy about the prospective new car and while talking about it may have got herself cornered into promising her dad the old one. They, in their subtly devious Asian ways, held her to that and she couldn't think of a way out; she concluded it would be easier to wrangle the OP than them. Besides, she figured, after 6 years, what's her take-home?

Granted, I've made a lot of assumptions here, but isn't that the ThaiVisa way?

I'm not saying she didn't do wrong. I'm saying the OP and his gf/gf's family may have had different ideas about the nature of their union and this was never properly trashed out, in which case, the OP is partly complicit in creating the situation he finds himself in.

The OP's feelings and interests should be paramount to her. Perhaps, under different circumstances, they would be. The circumstances may need to be that they have to be properly married and for him to have successfully convinced her that he's with her for good and that what's his is also hers. When everything is both yours and hers, then woe betide anyone who tries to take it away from the plural 'you', she would not let it happen.

I hope the OP and girlfriend find a way past this incident. When it comes to relationships, it's hard to say what would constitute a no-turning-back deal breaker. Whatever the case, I think the OP needs to confront the situation head-on. Calmly and politely, without accusations (there's time for that later), demand a clear-cut explanation. Then map out a way forward both acceptable and face-saving for everyone.

Good Luck.

[Englander]

Someone owes you 5500 pound and doesnt pay, what you do is go round there and politely ask for your money and get a date when theyll pay it.

Then when this dates comes you go round and collect it, if they dont pay you bounce their head off a wall, no matter who it is.

And then park the girl up for causing you such a headache.

[drum]

some very interesting and thoughtful replies,and yes very funny one liners,i want to go down the road of a misunderstanding by all parties,has some post have indicated,i say our car the trade in one i brought 2 years back in g/f name,she paid all running costs and insurance,the trade in value offered and agreed by dealership was bt 270.000 the new car cost 3 times this amount paid for by me and all running costs and insurance paid by g/f and yes brought in her name,if she had asked can we have a new car and give old one to dad i would of said no chance,he can buy is own,

so I'm back to the point,why did he sell is nearly new truck,I'm told to many problems with it,( understandable) I'm sure the g/f would have told him he has to pay something for the old car,maybe how much was not mentioned by her,sure as hel_l was by me,trade in price i thought was fare,,after all the dealership would still have to make some profit, i cant see my self confronting her dad has it would make for an awkward situation all round, lesson learned,but a right nasty pill to swallow,not the money so much,but a broken agreement if there ever was one,

[drum]

Someone owes you 5500 pound and doesnt pay, what you do is go round there and politely ask for your money and get a date when theyll pay it.

Then when this dates comes you go round and collect it, if they dont pay you bounce their head off a wall, no matter who it is.

And then park the girl up for causing you such a headache.

well apart from the old man would probably shoot me the g/f would and is capable of kicking the shit out of me the relatives are high ranking police officers,i think i will give her dad a little more time,

Edited September 1, 2010 by drum

[IanForbes]

Thakkar and Forethat pretty much nailed it. I said much the same thing in my posts. It isn't something that happens just in Thailand. It happens in all parts of the world. Many people ask for loans that they HOPE to pay back, but have no reasonable idea how they are going to do so. It's like procrastination. People have the best intentions, but not the will to carry it through. None of us here know what is going on in the head of the girlfriend or father-in-law. It could be an intentional scam, but it's more likely a case of good intentions not backed up with any initiative. All we can do is make assumptions that may or many not be true. Assumptions are only very basic guidelines to go by. I could ASSUME that all Thais are out to scam us, but that doesn't make it true.

[BigPanda]

Someone owes you 5500 pound and doesnt pay, what you do is go round there and politely ask for your money and get a date when theyll pay it.

Then when this dates comes you go round and collect it, if they dont pay you bounce their head off a wall, no matter who it is.

And then park the girl up for causing you such a headache.

well apart from the old man would probably shoot me the g/f would and is capable of kicking the shit out of me the relatives are high ranking police officers,i think i will give her dad a little more time,

I think you should have mentioned that the father in law was a policeman earlier... the replies would have been much shorter

Good luck anyway I know it's big headache to get "scammed" by the in laws, but really you should politely confront the in law. If he doesn't have the money tell him to pay you back 5000-10 000 every month until its completed. He gets a loan without interest and you get your money back after a few years. I did that recently to someone and apparently they agreed but I am still waiting for the first payment so maybe it's not the best advice after all. Worth a try maybe you get luckier.