Two Thai Teenagers Held Over 9y-Old Schoolboy Shooting

[travelingmike]

THe firetrucking TWUNT in the seat next to me who actually works in this net cafe is watching clip after clip of school kids fighting and laughing out loud. He's early twenties and to my mind a firetrucking Tuwnt for thinking this is funny. I know its stupid and verging on hypocritical but I want to put his head though the window to show him how funny it is to be bullied. I don't enjoy violence and the fact that this young man for the last half hour has been laughing at nothing other than young girls mainly, fighting and hurting each other on phone video clips loaded to Youtube and the odd boys fight where he delights in pointing out the blood from heads being smashed against the black board makes me want to give him a taste of this brand of humour. Not good for me, not good for him. But this is THailand. THis is what they think is funny. I won't miss this.

SOmetimes I really <deleted> hate this place for the kind of things that seem socially acceptable. I think Porn is a more suitable subject in a net cafe that high school boys and girls kicking each others heads in. WOuld love to take the admirers of this violence to the Nazi Death camps for a few days. Maybe a few re-enactments could be arranged to help them understand.

I live in the USA, and this behavior you are discussing is also here, it is not a thai thing by any means. Not to repeat others but the missing peace I believe is the strong line drawing male role model-not abusive- is very much lacking in the world as a whole. I watch as kids interact with others while texting/talking on their devices, if my children ever did this they know it would be a long time before they touched that ipod or phone again. I ride the public transit to work here in the bay area and watch as young people dont get up for seniors/ other people put their feet in chairs-like I said my children know this is not acceptable behavior and why-I draw the line. My children also do not have much time for computers and devices-they are outside swimming/hiking/biking/playing with me and my wife. When the weather is bad they are doing art projects/playing indoor games and yes the occasional dvd. Children need direction from parents and lines to be drawn, I think it is important also to explain why . I was taking my daughter to school the other day and saw a group of 4 boys-about 3rd grade-they all where morbidly obese and had breasts-talking about a video game. To me this is abusive parenting, I am not sure how to fix the problem-I think it is daunting, how do you make parents be parents in the way that is needed? How do you make them understand that the child they are creating/shaping is a negative for the world-they are creating a problem-not a benefit to society unless they start parenting/fathering? How do you get parents the accept responsability for the problem-that it is their falt. As long as people keep being led to believe that they are not responsible for their actions or changing the direction of their lives, through thought out choices, the future does not look so good. I hope their will be a revolution of mentality/behavior/responsability.

[roadking96cube]

There is a law in Thailand that the parents can be held responsible for their kids up to the age of 20 years old - maybe need to start enforcing that law! Don't know the details but sure need to think about it!

In some cases yes others no.In Brisbane Australia we had trouble in a suburb with gangs of Samoen's.My mates son got the flogging of his life.When we finally tracked this kid's adress down we decided to approach the farther of this boy first.On going into the house we found a 5 foot nothing white male that married a samoen lady his17 year old boy was about 6foot four built like a brick outhouse that flogged his farther every time he came home drunk .How could you hold him responsible for his sons actions.I personally would be tracking down who and where these kids are getting the guns hold them responsible as well.

[Netfan]

"I did not intended to hurt him. I apologise to his family," he told reporters.

Well, that makes it all okay then. Condolences to the family of the slain boy. It did not have to happen. There is plenty of blame to go around here, but it starts with these two punks. Life without parole. Done. Next time we hear anything about them is in 2060 when its reported they've died in prison. Next in responsibility are the heads of the schools. For years their line has been "boys will be boys" and they have refused to come down on the rivalries between these schools, they have even promoted the rivalries. Give the headmaster of this school the word - shut down the school if he does not resign. The education minister should be called in front of the governor or PM and have a plan within 48 hours to clean up the rest of the schools or he's gone. Word goes out to all schools, next sign of trouble, they all shut down, for good.

Social control begins in the family (I'm assuming these yobs have a family or some kinsfolk), and that is where right and wrong must begin. Don't just blame the schools and those running them.It is much more complicated .We all learn more out of school that in it . Poverty and chaotic family life leads to all kinds of social disintegration .The elites and power wielders of this country have a monumental job ahead of them improving childrens access to education, along with financial support for (poor) families to help them send their children to school without incurring debts to userers(sp?).

My deepest sympathies to the parents of the dead.

You're absolutely right - it is complicated. It is not easy to control a teenager. There are plenty of bad kids who come from "good" families, and there are plenty of good kids who come from bad situations /families. Who knows what the family lives of these kids was like- but blaming the parents first is just passing the buck- these weren't 8 year olds. And the schools are to blame. Its the culture of these technical schools, who encourage these gang fights. There have been several sad episodes like this over the past years. The schools play it down and promise to clamp down, and then do nothing. Theses two kids need to go to prison for a long time. As punishment and as a message to others. Their parents should have to pay compensation to the victims family. Both will probably happen. But the school director should be fired and not allowed near another school the rest of his working days- again, punishment and deterrent. . And yes, the government needs to provide a meaningful education, including a teaching a sense of personal responsibility and accountability, beginning in primary school. But we all know that is not likely to happen- if the teachers, the elite and the govt don't have it, how is it ever going to get taught? Look how many fatal accidents involving school buses there are- is anything ever done? No. Sadly, this will turn out the same way.

[fishhooks]

I wonder how long the world has to wait for Copy-Cat repercussions to the movie "Kick-Ass" a movie which attempts to lighten extreme "Young Violence" with comedy.

Sure, it's "R" rated everywhere but I'll bet that makes no difference to whatever age it finds it's way to.

The well known adult male actor in this trash should be ashamed of his involvement, but I guess the mighty US$ is speaking here, rather than the pityful message that this movie portrays!

[eddie61]

Deep thoughts!

I tend to agree with you, just adding that a top dog puppy in Thailand is taught that he can do no wrong.. I am sure that anyone who has trained a dog will agree that this is a recipe for a dangerous hound.

Unfortunately, it is also a bad precedent for a young adult; look at all those unhinged sons of the pooh yai who feel justified to commit murder and get away with it when their member is not allowed to swing freely.

The bad example trickles down from the top.....add an education system that is trained not to question, looks upwards and to soap operas for its cultural pole stars, and the witches cauldron is bubbling away nicely...

My kids are outta here!!!

The remarkable thing about kids is that they are human beings too, who happen to be more dramatic in expressing their emotions. They haven't grown up enough to know to conceal their true feelings and resort to cunning and trickery. So, reading about these kids behavior is a good indicator of the social undercurrent going on, but that the kids have not learned to conceal yet.

Thailand's problem solving process goes like this; fight or flight.

When they fight, it is no holds barred and no quarter asked for or given.

When they make flight, there is no possibility to get them to return to the issue or location to talk rationally. They have no rationale. This is how they get programmed through their childhood. No human is born with Intel Pentium inside, and a host of software to know how to cope with life. It has to get programmed in as the human grows up. Clearly, the evidence surrounding us is a strong indicator of what type of programming is going on. Animal from the start, and human being by programming that brings out our better nature; otherwise, our animal nature will rule.

These days in Western countries, if a father administers tough love and corrects his children with a swat to the bum, he goes to jail, gets a restraining order, goes through mandatory anger management class, etc. The old days are gone, and the new Western world will see the affects of children who do not respect each other due to the inability to understand and respect each individual's boundaries.

The West is a good example of how wrong it is for governments to involve themselves in matters far better left to responsible, caring, and loving parents. Mommy is the nurturer, and Daddy is "The Line". Don't step over the line. But the West has systematically removed Daddy from the home, which is now run by the remainder of the family unit. I hope Thailand's government does not intervene as the West has. I hope they begin putting the yoke of responsibility back onto the Father and Mother.

But one problem here with the Thai fathers is one that bring s a saying to mind: "I am my father's son". The governments of the West had to make laws to get the father out of the home. The irony here is that Thailand needs to make laws to get the fathers back into the the home. There never was any need to get the fathers out of the home because the culture here does not seem to cultivate a patriarchal responsibility in a society that is known to be matriarchal. Hence the mom making a statement, and leaving me asking, "where the heck is dad?".

On a side note, I find it interesting that of all the children in orphanages in Thailand, over 60% have parents who have not yet signed a waiver of release for their kids to be in an orphanage. Hence they cannot get adopted. Is this another facet of an issue where Thai parents simply do not want to be involved with their children after they get past that cute and cuddly age? If the beast is not programmed to be a human of better nature, then it will grow into an adult beast, with all the facade of simulating a normal adult. But when you look at the track record, the diagnosis is clear.

What makes a person stop-check their self before stepping across the line? Clearly, Thailand has not found an answer to that, nor a deterrent to those who do. I think the reason for this is that tugging at any one strand of this social structure will cause the entire web to tremble.

To the people who abhor any form of physical correction towards children, then I wonder if they are also against having a strong military presence to protect their right to abhor violence. After all, isn't a military supposed to be prepared to punch the enemy in the snout and make them think twice about stepping across the line?

Idealists seem to hide behind the ankles of the realists when the doo-doo hits the fan. But when everything is peaceful and serene, they come out from under their rocks and condemn violence in all forms, regardless of the necessity in life to administer it at certain times, and to certain individuals, as a deterrent to far worse behavior - to get that beast back on the track to becoming a human of better nature.

Let's corral the idealists together and put them in the same neighborhood where these unruly animals live. I wonder if they will start a neighborhood charity and spend time with these not fully matured, feral humans, and mentor them onto the path of becoming human beings of a better nature. I am quite certain it will not be long before they cry for someone other than themselves to "get tough" on these kids.

You will never find an idealist in a fox-hole, and negotiating with children is the height of folly!

[tominbkk]

I've been here since 92 and every time there is a fight with these schools the govt says they are going to do something about it.

How about this: Every time a student is convicted of violence or trying to start a fight, the school is fined 100,000 Baht. 20 students in a brawl, a cool 2,000,000. Bet the school owners would get serious about stopping their kids from fighting then!

At the same time they could have boxing tournaments between schools, for the ones who really want to fight.

So many solutions, but the problem is Thai culture forgives and forgets very quickly (a blessing and a curse both)....nobody will remember a 9 year old was killed in two weeks, and it will be business as usual again.

[tominbkk]

I wonder how long the world has to wait for Copy-Cat repercussions to the movie "Kick-Ass" a movie which attempts to lighten extreme "Young Violence" with comedy.

Sure, it's "R" rated everywhere but I'll bet that makes no difference to whatever age it finds it's way to.

The well known adult male actor in this trash should be ashamed of his involvement, but I guess the mighty US$ is speaking here, rather than the pityful message that this movie portrays!

It's a comedy. It's fiction. People who are raised to think that ficiton, movies, or video games are the same as real life and should be emulated had bad parents or are nuts or both. I grew up on Creepy Magazine, horror flicks, HP Lovecraft, and GI Joe. I'm a pacifist.

[angiud]

Tragic, where did he get the gun?

According to Channel 3 (or TNN, I don't remember) the boy bought the gun by internet.

Disturbing news

[AleG]

Tragic, where did he get the gun?

According to Channel 3 (or TNN, I don't remember) the boy bought the gun by internet.

Disturbing news

From what I saw on TV the "gun" was some sort of firing tube, a metal tube with a spring mechanism to strike the primer on a shotgun shell. Something very easy to build with the tools in any minimally equipped metal workshop.

I don't know about them buying them (there was more than one such guns), but it's perfectly possible that they could be made at the school's workshop.

[Exnavy]

The remarkable thing about kids is that they are human beings too, who happen to be more dramatic in expressing their emotions. They haven't grown up enough to know to conceal their true feelings and resort to cunning and trickery. So, reading about these kids behavior is a good indicator of the social undercurrent going on, but that the kids have not learned to conceal yet.

Thailand's problem solving process goes like this; fight or flight.

When they fight, it is no holds barred and no quarter asked for or given.

When they make flight, there is no possibility to get them to return to the issue or location to talk rationally. They have no rationale. This is how they get programmed through their childhood. No human is born with Intel Pentium inside, and a host of software to know how to cope with life. It has to get programmed in as the human grows up. Clearly, the evidence surrounding us is a strong indicator of what type of programming is going on. Animal from the start, and human being by programming that brings out our better nature; otherwise, our animal nature will rule.

These days in Western countries, if a father administers tough love and corrects his children with a swat to the bum, he goes to jail, gets a restraining order, goes through mandatory anger management class, etc. The old days are gone, and the new Western world will see the affects of children who do not respect each other due to the inability to understand and respect each individual's boundaries.

The West is a good example of how wrong it is for governments to involve themselves in matters far better left to responsible, caring, and loving parents. Mommy is the nurturer, and Daddy is "The Line". Don't step over the line. But the West has systematically removed Daddy from the home, which is now run by the remainder of the family unit. I hope Thailand's government does not intervene as the West has. I hope they begin putting the yoke of responsibility back onto the Father and Mother.

But one problem here with the Thai fathers is one that bring s a saying to mind: "I am my father's son". The governments of the West had to make laws to get the father out of the home. The irony here is that Thailand needs to make laws to get the fathers back into the the home. There never was any need to get the fathers out of the home because the culture here does not seem to cultivate a patriarchal responsibility in a society that is known to be matriarchal. Hence the mom making a statement, and leaving me asking, "where the heck is dad?".

On a side note, I find it interesting that of all the children in orphanages in Thailand, over 60% have parents who have not yet signed a waiver of release for their kids to be in an orphanage. Hence they cannot get adopted. Is this another facet of an issue where Thai parents simply do not want to be involved with their children after they get past that cute and cuddly age? If the beast is not programmed to be a human of better nature, then it will grow into an adult beast, with all the facade of simulating a normal adult. But when you look at the track record, the diagnosis is clear.

What makes a person stop-check their self before stepping across the line? Clearly, Thailand has not found an answer to that, nor a deterrent to those who do. I think the reason for this is that tugging at any one strand of this social structure will cause the entire web to tremble.

To the people who abhor any form of physical correction towards children, then I wonder if they are also against having a strong military presence to protect their right to abhor violence. After all, isn't a military supposed to be prepared to punch the enemy in the snout and make them think twice about stepping across the line?

Idealists seem to hide behind the ankles of the realists when the doo-doo hits the fan. But when everything is peaceful and serene, they come out from under their rocks and condemn violence in all forms, regardless of the necessity in life to administer it at certain times, and to certain individuals, as a deterrent to far worse behavior - to get that beast back on the track to becoming a human of better nature.

Let's corral the idealists together and put them in the same neighborhood where these unruly animals live. I wonder if they will start a neighborhood charity and spend time with these not fully matured, feral humans, and mentor them onto the path of becoming human beings of a better nature. I am quite certain it will not be long before they cry for someone other than themselves to "get tough" on these kids.

You will never find an idealist in a fox-hole, and negotiating with children is the height of folly!

didnt read further..

reminds me of the black ghetto's ... common joke is.. no black kid ever has a daddy... well those black kid we're the #1 gun shooters in statistics.

if they ever kept legit statistic in thailand, it would probably be the same

[thailand49]

Sorry!

I'm just as liberal as the next person! But this young boy was only 9 years old! Think yourself if you can when you were 9 years old? and tell me what you could have done at that age that can cause someone to want take your life?

These kids weren't 9 years old? they were 16 and 19 years old from the reports! In Thailand they are mostly out of school at 15 years old? they are already adults and had the ability to know where to get a gun and how to use it! and I can tell you if not now it would have been when is the question you need to ask yourselves!

Admitting to the crime is just a means to get a lighter sentence,

Edited September 3, 2010 by sbk
extreme hate speech removed

[sam666]

Can't see it as suprising, I've never had any probs with any thais even if they have threatened me or pushed me due to the fact they don't think twice about shooting or stabbing. A lot lot more then any other country i've been to actually.

[TAWP]

I wonder how long the world has to wait for Copy-Cat repercussions to the movie "Kick-Ass" a movie which attempts to lighten extreme "Young Violence" with comedy.

Sure, it's "R" rated everywhere but I'll bet that makes no difference to whatever age it finds it's way to.

The well known adult male actor in this trash should be ashamed of his involvement, but I guess the mighty US$ is speaking here, rather than the pityful message that this movie portrays!

You must have completely misunderstood the movie Kick-Ass, unless you think these hooligans was suspecting that the bus was loaded with bank-robbers...

[elliss]

BRING BACK THE DEATH PENALTY!!!

to quote the good book .

an eye for an eye , a tooth for a tooth .

bring back the days of discipline, and respect ,

punishment is essential , in order to have a safe society .

[lovelomsak]

The remarkable thing about kids is that they are human beings too, who happen to be more dramatic in expressing their emotions. They haven't grown up enough to know to conceal their true feelings and resort to cunning and trickery. So, reading about these kids behavior is a good indicator of the social undercurrent going on, but that the kids have not learned to conceal yet.

Thailand's problem solving process goes like this; fight or flight.

When they fight, it is no holds barred and no quarter asked for or given.

When they make flight, there is no possibility to get them to return to the issue or location to talk rationally. They have no rationale. This is how they get programmed through their childhood. No human is born with Intel Pentium inside, and a host of software to know how to cope with life. It has to get programmed in as the human grows up. Clearly, the evidence surrounding us is a strong indicator of what type of programming is going on. Animal from the start, and human being by programming that brings out our better nature; otherwise, our animal nature will rule.

These days in Western countries, if a father administers tough love and corrects his children with a swat to the bum, he goes to jail, gets a restraining order, goes through mandatory anger management class, etc. The old days are gone, and the new Western world will see the affects of children who do not respect each other due to the inability to understand and respect each individual's boundaries.

The West is a good example of how wrong it is for governments to involve themselves in matters far better left to responsible, caring, and loving parents. Mommy is the nurturer, and Daddy is "The Line". Don't step over the line. But the West has systematically removed Daddy from the home, which is now run by the remainder of the family unit. I hope Thailand's government does not intervene as the West has. I hope they begin putting the yoke of responsibility back onto the Father and Mother.

But one problem here with the Thai fathers is one that bring s a saying to mind: "I am my father's son". The governments of the West had to make laws to get the father out of the home. The irony here is that Thailand needs to make laws to get the fathers back into the the home. There never was any need to get the fathers out of the home because the culture here does not seem to cultivate a patriarchal responsibility in a society that is known to be matriarchal. Hence the mom making a statement, and leaving me asking, "where the heck is dad?".

On a side note, I find it interesting that of all the children in orphanages in Thailand, over 60% have parents who have not yet signed a waiver of release for their kids to be in an orphanage. Hence they cannot get adopted. Is this another facet of an issue where Thai parents simply do not want to be involved with their children after they get past that cute and cuddly age? If the beast is not programmed to be a human of better nature, then it will grow into an adult beast, with all the facade of simulating a normal adult. But when you look at the track record, the diagnosis is clear.

What makes a person stop-check their self before stepping across the line? Clearly, Thailand has not found an answer to that, nor a deterrent to those who do. I think the reason for this is that tugging at any one strand of this social structure will cause the entire web to tremble.

To the people who abhor any form of physical correction towards children, then I wonder if they are also against having a strong military presence to protect their right to abhor violence. After all, isn't a military supposed to be prepared to punch the enemy in the snout and make them think twice about stepping across the line?

Idealists seem to hide behind the ankles of the realists when the doo-doo hits the fan. But when everything is peaceful and serene, they come out from under their rocks and condemn violence in all forms, regardless of the necessity in life to administer it at certain times, and to certain individuals, as a deterrent to far worse behavior - to get that beast back on the track to becoming a human of better nature.

Let's corral the idealists together and put them in the same neighborhood where these unruly animals live. I wonder if they will start a neighborhood charity and spend time with these not fully matured, feral humans, and mentor them onto the path of becoming human beings of a better nature. I am quite certain it will not be long before they cry for someone other than themselves to "get tough" on these kids.

You will never find an idealist in a fox-hole, and negotiating with children is the height of folly!

I have to say this is one of the best stated posts I personally have read in a very long time . My hat is off to you sir. You stated everything so clearly anywone who read it cannot help but csee how correct you are. I am 100% in agreement with every word you wrote.

[katana]

Bit more in Thai Rath and also a blurry CH7 news video of the 2 teenage suspects in police custody.

http://www.thairath.co.th/content/region/108029

http://www.ch7.com/news/news_thailand_detail.aspx?c=2&p=5&d=102522

[tominbkk]

BRING BACK THE DEATH PENALTY!!!

to quote the good book .

an eye for an eye , a tooth for a tooth .

bring back the days of discipline, and respect ,

punishment is essential , in order to have a safe society .

If you like it so much, go move to Iraq. I'm sure they would let you take part in stonings and such. Sounds right up your alley!

[cup-O-coffee]

BRING BACK THE DEATH PENALTY!!!

to quote the good book .

an eye for an eye , a tooth for a tooth .

bring back the days of discipline, and respect ,

punishment is essential , in order to have a safe society .

If you like it so much, go move to Iraq. I'm sure they would let you take part in stonings and such. Sounds right up your alley!

Two extremes; neither of which addresses any solution to put the beast back on the path of becoming a human of better nature, yet merely expresses the frustration that comes from events such as this. One solution is fear, and the other is to let the animal run free and crap in your yard. Incidentally, I would much rather live in Iraq than in the inner city hoods of London or New York; so, that notion seems a bit ill-conceived, if you forgive my interpretation.

My opinion; there are dark times ahead for all of us. Change begins with me, and I can take this time of relative calm to prepare for that eventuality when ideals must take a back seat to survival, and negotiation is not an option. Was it not Teddy Roosevelt who said "Speak softly and carry a big stick."? I guess that means there is an eventuality that the big stick will need be used with extreme prejudice, if the case dictates. I almost feel sorry for the idealist who speaks loudly and has no stick, when he or she is confronted with one of these events that they champion so ignorantly.

I see that no replies have been given for some time. Perhaps this is the effect these events have upon our senses; to vent and then to move on with the full-on knowledge that not much is going to change in any near future.

Good luck to all those humans of a better nature, or those seeking that path. Good luck to the people who do not seek confrontation, but who do not tolerate it when it comes knocking at their door.

Edited September 5, 2010 by cup-O-coffee