Business Failure Rate In Los

[mrdeedee]

I have plans to open a Beer Bar in Pattaya for a hobby - I can get one for only $5000 and some rent of around $500 per month - I am told I will earn about $2000 per month profit and also can get money from girls working in the bar who go with punters for money - I should also get some free action I suppose from being the boss - better than a soppy noodle stall

I hope your not serious... one business that fails the most is a bar. But hey its your life your money.

i think hes mocking the guy who owns the cafe with the sis running the whole darn thing and making 30k be4 wages:lol:

[robblok]

I have plans to open a Beer Bar in Pattaya for a hobby - I can get one for only $5000 and some rent of around $500 per month - I am told I will earn about $2000 per month profit and also can get money from girls working in the bar who go with punters for money - I should also get some free action I suppose from being the boss - better than a soppy noodle stall

I hope your not serious... one business that fails the most is a bar. But hey its your life your money.

i think hes mocking the guy who owns the cafe with the sis running the whole darn thing and making 30k be4 wages:lol:

Now i read it again i think your right. I still don't think its bad what the guy has. Its profitable but on a small scale loads of Thais would be happy with it. But people who don't live here or don't know the salaries here wont. Myself i got a small company too.

I make a lil bit more money before wages. Because i do all the work myself. I make 100k a month without much investment (if you don't count my education). But he can copy his success and set up more of these joints and earn more. Me im limited to the 100k i make, could only get a lil bit more because im the guy working it and I can't get a Thai to do this. If i were to setup something like him and made an extra 10 or 15k on my normal salary id be quite happy as that is a lot on top of what you have. If it was my only income i would not be happy.

[wolf5370]

the number the guy gives is good for roi as you put it.

i just dont believe his numbers..

he says 30k be4 wages.

he says only sis and a helper run the place.420 hours a month of work for sis -she does everything so she has to be there all the time.@15k a month the sis makes about a dollar an hour.

he also says cook is returning from finland. this sounds like an additional employee:lol: .

who knows. just doesnt sound right:lol:

The number are true, believe it or not I don't give a toss. The 'cook' who went to Finland, IS my sister in law. She goes every year for two months fruit picking and earns a good wedge from it - we have family there so she gets sponsorship. So, no, no extra employee. I have a distinct feeling you are little expeirenced in Thailand (or Asia in general) - I guess this because you are suprised by people working 15 hour days in shops. This happens all over - especially when they live there, have family and friends around them all day - its just easier/nicer/more desireable staying open and getting customers whilst normal life goes on than closing and sitting in thrie room alone! Most cafe's of this ilk have just one or two people - Thais are happy to order their food and chat whilst it is being cooked - Thai food is quick to make (the menu is kept to quicker dishes - no Lobster Thermadore!) so covers can be turned around very quickly. Again, if you didn't notice that, I would be suprised if you were actually living here at all.

As stated - this is not an income for me, I don't touch it - it was originally set up for my mother in law after my father in law retired and after they split up as a couple - to give her something to work for and a way of earning money - she had owned and run restaurants before in her life and is a great cook. She has since left it with her daughter, my sister in law (by agreement), and as this was recent we had no time (or need) to make arrangements to cover her for her annual work trip to Finland. The sister in law earned just 5k a mont before, now earns 3 times that - so she is very happy. The work is easy for her as she ended up coking for the family most of the time anyway - so now she cooks a bit more for customers.

As it is local and caters for locals as well as passersby, we get students come in all the time wanting to work for a day or a weekend for some pocket money - they usually ask for 50B for about 6 hours or so - we usually pay them 100 baht (which incidently is the wages a local farang restaurant pays its perminanet Thai staff a day for a full days work - and he never is shot of applicants).

The 15k we get from it simply goes to replace the investment we made - we could do without it, but it is a nice little extra amount that the mrs uses for fun stuff (like going out, getting kids things and topping up the kids bak accounts). So I will say again - this is not my income - other than lend some thought to it (menus etc), design and print the menus and posters and the initial rewiring and decorating) I have nothing to do with it personally - though it gives me somewhere to go for free lunch whenever I feel like it. I really didn't want to get into all the detail - I was just giving it as an example that low rent places can earn a good THAI living wage and not as was implied earlier, just a place for socialising and scraping by - but being called a liar is not something I enjoy.

PS: In case you can not read between the lines - the 30k before wages is after other expenses - so it is just split 50/50 - my Mrs gets half and her sister gets half - so the 30k IS the wages if you like.

Edited September 8, 2010 by wolf5370

[kenallday]

the number the guy gives is good for roi as you put it.

i just dont believe his numbers..

he says 30k be4 wages.

he says only sis and a helper run the place.420 hours a month of work for sis -she does everything so she has to be there all the time.@15k a month the sis makes about a dollar an hour.

he also says cook is returning from finland. this sounds like an additional employee:lol: .

who knows. just doesnt sound right:lol:

The number are true, believe it or not I don't give a toss. The 'cook' who went to Finland, IS my sister in law. She goes every year for two months fruit picking and earns a good wedge from it - we have family there so she gets sponsorship. So, no, no extra employee. I have a distinct feeling you are little expeirenced in Thailand (or Asia in general) - I guess this because you are suprised by people working 15 hour days in shops. This happens all over - especially when they live there, have family and friends around them all day - its just easier/nicer/more desireable staying open and getting customers whilst normal life goes on than closing and sitting in thrie room alone! Most cafe's of this ilk have just one or two people - Thais are happy to order their food and chat whilst it is being cooked - Thai food is quick to make (the menu is kept to quicker dishes - no Lobster Thermadore!) so covers can be turned around very quickly. Again, if you didn't notice that, I would be suprised if you were actually living here at all.

As stated - this is not an income for me, I don't touch it - it was originally set up for my mother in law after my father in law retired and after they split up as a couple - to give her something to work for and a way of earning money - she had owned and run restaurants before in her life and is a great cook. She has since left it with her daughter, my sister in law (by agreement), and as this was recent we had no time (or need) to make arrangements to cover her for her annual work trip to Finland. The sister in law earned just 5k a mont before, now earns 3 times that - so she is very happy. The work is easy for her as she ended up coking for the family most of the time anyway - so now she cooks a bit more for customers.

As it is local and caters for locals as well as passersby, we get students come in all the time wanting to work for a day or a weekend for some pocket money - they usually ask for 50B for about 6 hours or so - we usually pay them 100 baht (which incidently is the wages a local farang restaurant pays its perminanet Thai staff a day for a full days work - and he never is shot of applicants).

The 15k we get from it simply goes to replace the investment we made - we could do without it, but it is a nice little extra amount that the mrs uses for fun stuff (like going out, getting kids things and topping up the kids bak accounts). So I will say again - this is not my income - other than lend some thought to it (menus etc), design and print the menus and posters and the initial rewiring and decorating) I have nothing to do with it personally - though it gives me somewhere to go for free lunch whenever I feel like it. I really didn't want to get into all the detail - I was just giving it as an example that low rent places can earn a good THAI living wage and not as was implied earlier, just a place for socialising and scraping by - but being called a liar is not something I enjoy.

PS: In case you can not read between the lines - the 30k before wages is after other expenses - so it is just split 50/50 - my Mrs gets half and her sister gets half - so the 30k IS the wages if you like.

This can't be true, how can she pick fruit there are no pineapples in Finland sure she is not going there for S/T - L/T

[wolf5370]

the number the guy gives is good for roi as you put it.

i just dont believe his numbers..

he says 30k be4 wages.

he says only sis and a helper run the place.420 hours a month of work for sis -she does everything so she has to be there all the time.@15k a month the sis makes about a dollar an hour.

he also says cook is returning from finland. this sounds like an additional employee:lol: .

who knows. just doesnt sound right:lol:

The number are true, believe it or not I don't give a toss. The 'cook' who went to Finland, IS my sister in law. She goes every year for two months fruit picking and earns a good wedge from it - we have family there so she gets sponsorship. So, no, no extra employee. I have a distinct feeling you are little expeirenced in Thailand (or Asia in general) - I guess this because you are suprised by people working 15 hour days in shops. This happens all over - especially when they live there, have family and friends around them all day - its just easier/nicer/more desireable staying open and getting customers whilst normal life goes on than closing and sitting in thrie room alone! Most cafe's of this ilk have just one or two people - Thais are happy to order their food and chat whilst it is being cooked - Thai food is quick to make (the menu is kept to quicker dishes - no Lobster Thermadore!) so covers can be turned around very quickly. Again, if you didn't notice that, I would be suprised if you were actually living here at all.

As stated - this is not an income for me, I don't touch it - it was originally set up for my mother in law after my father in law retired and after they split up as a couple - to give her something to work for and a way of earning money - she had owned and run restaurants before in her life and is a great cook. She has since left it with her daughter, my sister in law (by agreement), and as this was recent we had no time (or need) to make arrangements to cover her for her annual work trip to Finland. The sister in law earned just 5k a mont before, now earns 3 times that - so she is very happy. The work is easy for her as she ended up coking for the family most of the time anyway - so now she cooks a bit more for customers.

As it is local and caters for locals as well as passersby, we get students come in all the time wanting to work for a day or a weekend for some pocket money - they usually ask for 50B for about 6 hours or so - we usually pay them 100 baht (which incidently is the wages a local farang restaurant pays its perminanet Thai staff a day for a full days work - and he never is shot of applicants).

The 15k we get from it simply goes to replace the investment we made - we could do without it, but it is a nice little extra amount that the mrs uses for fun stuff (like going out, getting kids things and topping up the kids bak accounts). So I will say again - this is not my income - other than lend some thought to it (menus etc), design and print the menus and posters and the initial rewiring and decorating) I have nothing to do with it personally - though it gives me somewhere to go for free lunch whenever I feel like it. I really didn't want to get into all the detail - I was just giving it as an example that low rent places can earn a good THAI living wage and not as was implied earlier, just a place for socialising and scraping by - but being called a liar is not something I enjoy.

PS: In case you can not read between the lines - the 30k before wages is after other expenses - so it is just split 50/50 - my Mrs gets half and her sister gets half - so the 30k IS the wages if you like.

This can't be true, how can she pick fruit there are no pineapples in Finland sure she is not going there for S/T - L/T

Blueberries I think, they are farmed (I don't think they grown there naturally ???) - she gets something like 1000B for a bucket full (they use some sort of weaved basket which they use to fill large buckets - she can fill up three to four buckets a day. I did have some photos, but can't find them at the moment. She emailed to say not a very good year this year and they are not paying as much either - so maybe this will be the last year she does it. In two months she can earn over a years average salary here - that's why she does it (she has to pay for her flight and visa though - which usually her sister pays and she pays back from her earnings).

No idea what S/T or L/T is??? I guess its inferring she's a hooker or something, she's my sister-inlaw, so wouldn't care is it was true, but as she is with family over there (two uncles, two aunts and an older sister - and at the moment her gran who is visiting too) I doubt it somewhat.

Edited September 8, 2010 by wolf5370

[wolf5370]

I have plans to open a Beer Bar in Pattaya for a hobby - I can get one for only $5000 and some rent of around $500 per month - I am told I will earn about $2000 per month profit and also can get money from girls working in the bar who go with punters for money - I should also get some free action I suppose from being the boss - better than a soppy noodle stall

Yes I can see how that would be so less stressfull than a cafe - with your friendly police and mafia popping in to say "hi" and help you out with that $2,000 a month. Personally, I leave the cafe to my Thai family, for whom it was intended, and I would not go near a bar business other than as a patron for love nor money.

Personally I make good enough money from my own buisinesses here (not talking about the cafe) and overseas investments, but hey, to each their own!

Edited September 8, 2010 by wolf5370

[chiangmaihigh]

the number the guy gives is good for roi as you put it.

i just dont believe his numbers..

he says 30k be4 wages.

he says only sis and a helper run the place.420 hours a month of work for sis -she does everything so she has to be there all the time.@15k a month the sis makes about a dollar an hour.

he also says cook is returning from finland. this sounds like an additional employee:lol: .

who knows. just doesnt sound right:lol:

The number are true, believe it or not I don't give a toss. The 'cook' who went to Finland, IS my sister in law. She goes every year for two months fruit picking and earns a good wedge from it - we have family there so she gets sponsorship. So, no, no extra employee. I have a distinct feeling you are little expeirenced in Thailand (or Asia in general) - I guess this because you are suprised by people working 15 hour days in shops. This happens all over - especially when they live there, have family and friends around them all day - its just easier/nicer/more desireable staying open and getting customers whilst normal life goes on than closing and sitting in thrie room alone! Most cafe's of this ilk have just one or two people - Thais are happy to order their food and chat whilst it is being cooked - Thai food is quick to make (the menu is kept to quicker dishes - no Lobster Thermadore!) so covers can be turned around very quickly. Again, if you didn't notice that, I would be suprised if you were actually living here at all.

As stated - this is not an income for me, I don't touch it - it was originally set up for my mother in law after my father in law retired and after they split up as a couple - to give her something to work for and a way of earning money - she had owned and run restaurants before in her life and is a great cook. She has since left it with her daughter, my sister in law (by agreement), and as this was recent we had no time (or need) to make arrangements to cover her for her annual work trip to Finland. The sister in law earned just 5k a mont before, now earns 3 times that - so she is very happy. The work is easy for her as she ended up coking for the family most of the time anyway - so now she cooks a bit more for customers.

As it is local and caters for locals as well as passersby, we get students come in all the time wanting to work for a day or a weekend for some pocket money - they usually ask for 50B for about 6 hours or so - we usually pay them 100 baht (which incidently is the wages a local farang restaurant pays its perminanet Thai staff a day for a full days work - and he never is shot of applicants).

The 15k we get from it simply goes to replace the investment we made - we could do without it, but it is a nice little extra amount that the mrs uses for fun stuff (like going out, getting kids things and topping up the kids bak accounts). So I will say again - this is not my income - other than lend some thought to it (menus etc), design and print the menus and posters and the initial rewiring and decorating) I have nothing to do with it personally - though it gives me somewhere to go for free lunch whenever I feel like it. I really didn't want to get into all the detail - I was just giving it as an example that low rent places can earn a good THAI living wage and not as was implied earlier, just a place for socialising and scraping by - but being called a liar is not something I enjoy.

PS: In case you can not read between the lines - the 30k before wages is after other expenses - so it is just split 50/50 - my Mrs gets half and her sister gets half - so the 30k IS the wages if you like.

Agree with mrdeedee, just doesn't sound right. Especially when I look at some of your previous posts, wolfie. In your old posts, your wife is here / not here. and your MIL is running the business / not running the business. Bt15,000 is hardly even going to cover a farang living and renting in CM. So, either you are seriously loaded, or there is more than a hint of BS being put out on the internet.

Edited September 8, 2010 by chiangmaihigh

[mrdeedee]

the number the guy gives is good for roi as you put it.

i just dont believe his numbers..

he says 30k be4 wages.

he says only sis and a helper run the place.420 hours a month of work for sis -she does everything so she has to be there all the time.@15k a month the sis makes about a dollar an hour.

he also says cook is returning from finland. this sounds like an additional employee:lol: .

who knows. just doesnt sound right:lol:

The number are true, believe it or not I don't give a toss. The 'cook' who went to Finland, IS my sister in law. She goes every year for two months fruit picking and earns a good wedge from it - we have family there so she gets sponsorship. So, no, no extra employee. I have a distinct feeling you are little expeirenced in Thailand (or Asia in general) - I guess this because you are suprised by people working 15 hour days in shops. This happens all over - especially when they live there, have family and friends around them all day - its just easier/nicer/more desireable staying open and getting customers whilst normal life goes on than closing and sitting in thrie room alone! Most cafe's of this ilk have just one or two people - Thais are happy to order their food and chat whilst it is being cooked - Thai food is quick to make (the menu is kept to quicker dishes - no Lobster Thermadore!) so covers can be turned around very quickly. Again, if you didn't notice that, I would be suprised if you were actually living here at all.

As stated - this is not an income for me, I don't touch it - it was originally set up for my mother in law after my father in law retired and after they split up as a couple - to give her something to work for and a way of earning money - she had owned and run restaurants before in her life and is a great cook. She has since left it with her daughter, my sister in law (by agreement), and as this was recent we had no time (or need) to make arrangements to cover her for her annual work trip to Finland. The sister in law earned just 5k a mont before, now earns 3 times that - so she is very happy. The work is easy for her as she ended up coking for the family most of the time anyway - so now she cooks a bit more for customers.

As it is local and caters for locals as well as passersby, we get students come in all the time wanting to work for a day or a weekend for some pocket money - they usually ask for 50B for about 6 hours or so - we usually pay them 100 baht (which incidently is the wages a local farang restaurant pays its perminanet Thai staff a day for a full days work - and he never is shot of applicants).

The 15k we get from it simply goes to replace the investment we made - we could do without it, but it is a nice little extra amount that the mrs uses for fun stuff (like going out, getting kids things and topping up the kids bak accounts). So I will say again - this is not my income - other than lend some thought to it (menus etc), design and print the menus and posters and the initial rewiring and decorating) I have nothing to do with it personally - though it gives me somewhere to go for free lunch whenever I feel like it. I really didn't want to get into all the detail - I was just giving it as an example that low rent places can earn a good THAI living wage and not as was implied earlier, just a place for socialising and scraping by - but being called a liar is not something I enjoy.

PS: In case you can not read between the lines - the 30k before wages is after other expenses - so it is just split 50/50 - my Mrs gets half and her sister gets half - so the 30k IS the wages if you like.

just trying to do some forensic accounting here:lol: :lol: i dont know how many use profit be4 wages as a measure of how a business does. is thai tax based on profit be4 wages?

tell us how much you gross. i guess a cafe grossing 300,000 baht could throw off 30,000 a month. but 300,000 divided by 75 baht meals equals a whopping 128 meals a day..............no way your sis cooks that many individual meals a day.

ahhhhhhhhhhh...........i think ive figgured it out. does the sis do the accounting?is her profit figure the same as gross sales????????????

as you dont go near the biz i think you are being quoted thai accounting numbers.

Edited September 8, 2010 by mrdeedee

[mrdeedee]

the number the guy gives is good for roi as you put it.

i just dont believe his numbers..

he says 30k be4 wages.

he says only sis and a helper run the place.420 hours a month of work for sis -she does everything so she has to be there all the time.@15k a month the sis makes about a dollar an hour.

he also says cook is returning from finland. this sounds like an additional employee:lol: .

who knows. just doesnt sound right:lol:

The number are true, believe it or not I don't give a toss. The 'cook' who went to Finland, IS my sister in law. She goes every year for two months fruit picking and earns a good wedge from it - we have family there so she gets sponsorship. So, no, no extra employee. I have a distinct feeling you are little expeirenced in Thailand (or Asia in general) - I guess this because you are suprised by people working 15 hour days in shops. This happens all over - especially when they live there, have family and friends around them all day - its just easier/nicer/more desireable staying open and getting customers whilst normal life goes on than closing and sitting in thrie room alone! Most cafe's of this ilk have just one or two people - Thais are happy to order their food and chat whilst it is being cooked - Thai food is quick to make (the menu is kept to quicker dishes - no Lobster Thermadore!) so covers can be turned around very quickly. Again, if you didn't notice that, I would be suprised if you were actually living here at all.

As stated - this is not an income for me, I don't touch it - it was originally set up for my mother in law after my father in law retired and after they split up as a couple - to give her something to work for and a way of earning money - she had owned and run restaurants before in her life and is a great cook. She has since left it with her daughter, my sister in law (by agreement), and as this was recent we had no time (or need) to make arrangements to cover her for her annual work trip to Finland. The sister in law earned just 5k a mont before, now earns 3 times that - so she is very happy. The work is easy for her as she ended up coking for the family most of the time anyway - so now she cooks a bit more for customers.

As it is local and caters for locals as well as passersby, we get students come in all the time wanting to work for a day or a weekend for some pocket money - they usually ask for 50B for about 6 hours or so - we usually pay them 100 baht (which incidently is the wages a local farang restaurant pays its perminanet Thai staff a day for a full days work - and he never is shot of applicants).

The 15k we get from it simply goes to replace the investment we made - we could do without it, but it is a nice little extra amount that the mrs uses for fun stuff (like going out, getting kids things and topping up the kids bak accounts). So I will say again - this is not my income - other than lend some thought to it (menus etc), design and print the menus and posters and the initial rewiring and decorating) I have nothing to do with it personally - though it gives me somewhere to go for free lunch whenever I feel like it. I really didn't want to get into all the detail - I was just giving it as an example that low rent places can earn a good THAI living wage and not as was implied earlier, just a place for socialising and scraping by - but being called a liar is not something I enjoy.

PS: In case you can not read between the lines - the 30k before wages is after other expenses - so it is just split 50/50 - my Mrs gets half and her sister gets half - so the 30k IS the wages if you like.

This can't be true, how can she pick fruit there are no pineapples in Finland sure she is not going there for S/T - L/T

Blueberries I think, they are farmed (I don't think they grown there naturally ???) - she gets something like 1000B for a bucket full (they use some sort of weaved basket which they use to fill large buckets - she can fill up three to four buckets a day. I did have some photos, but can't find them at the moment. She emailed to say not a very good year this year and they are not paying as much either - so maybe this will be the last year she does it. In two months she can earn over a years average salary here - that's why she does it (she has to pay for her flight and visa though - which usually her sister pays and she pays back from her earnings).

No idea what S/T or L/T is??? I guess its inferring she's a hooker or something, she's my sister-inlaw, so wouldn't care is it was true, but as she is with family over there (two uncles, two aunts and an older sister - and at the moment her gran who is visiting too) I doubt it somewhat.

so who runs the place when sis is doing the fruit thing?

[maccaroni man]

I think the failure rate within the first "year" in business back in the UK is in the region of 70%. i don't think the failure rate here is particularily out of line with most other places. Big difference here is there are fewer options of what to do so as in the case in tourist areas we go into an oversupply situation.

Its the "what am i going to do?"............oh yes, i'll open a bar/restaurant scenario.

what continues to blow my mind is how many businesses is see close within 60 days or less. I mean what are these people thinking? why open a business and close it so quickly without even giving it a chance. I like to watch and see how things are being run b4 i go in and sometimes this takes me a month, but on more than one occassion when i decided to give them business, they were already going out of business. imho this is crazy, madd, loco

[Heng]

That's most likely an extreme lack of will or cash reserves.

[wolf5370]

the number the guy gives is good for roi as you put it.

i just dont believe his numbers..

he says 30k be4 wages.

he says only sis and a helper run the place.420 hours a month of work for sis -she does everything so she has to be there all the time.@15k a month the sis makes about a dollar an hour.

he also says cook is returning from finland. this sounds like an additional employee:lol: .

who knows. just doesnt sound right:lol:

The number are true, believe it or not I don't give a toss. The 'cook' who went to Finland, IS my sister in law. She goes every year for two months fruit picking and earns a good wedge from it - we have family there so she gets sponsorship. So, no, no extra employee. I have a distinct feeling you are little expeirenced in Thailand (or Asia in general) - I guess this because you are suprised by people working 15 hour days in shops. This happens all over - especially when they live there, have family and friends around them all day - its just easier/nicer/more desireable staying open and getting customers whilst normal life goes on than closing and sitting in thrie room alone! Most cafe's of this ilk have just one or two people - Thais are happy to order their food and chat whilst it is being cooked - Thai food is quick to make (the menu is kept to quicker dishes - no Lobster Thermadore!) so covers can be turned around very quickly. Again, if you didn't notice that, I would be suprised if you were actually living here at all.

As stated - this is not an income for me, I don't touch it - it was originally set up for my mother in law after my father in law retired and after they split up as a couple - to give her something to work for and a way of earning money - she had owned and run restaurants before in her life and is a great cook. She has since left it with her daughter, my sister in law (by agreement), and as this was recent we had no time (or need) to make arrangements to cover her for her annual work trip to Finland. The sister in law earned just 5k a mont before, now earns 3 times that - so she is very happy. The work is easy for her as she ended up coking for the family most of the time anyway - so now she cooks a bit more for customers.

As it is local and caters for locals as well as passersby, we get students come in all the time wanting to work for a day or a weekend for some pocket money - they usually ask for 50B for about 6 hours or so - we usually pay them 100 baht (which incidently is the wages a local farang restaurant pays its perminanet Thai staff a day for a full days work - and he never is shot of applicants).

The 15k we get from it simply goes to replace the investment we made - we could do without it, but it is a nice little extra amount that the mrs uses for fun stuff (like going out, getting kids things and topping up the kids bak accounts). So I will say again - this is not my income - other than lend some thought to it (menus etc), design and print the menus and posters and the initial rewiring and decorating) I have nothing to do with it personally - though it gives me somewhere to go for free lunch whenever I feel like it. I really didn't want to get into all the detail - I was just giving it as an example that low rent places can earn a good THAI living wage and not as was implied earlier, just a place for socialising and scraping by - but being called a liar is not something I enjoy.

PS: In case you can not read between the lines - the 30k before wages is after other expenses - so it is just split 50/50 - my Mrs gets half and her sister gets half - so the 30k IS the wages if you like.

Agree with mrdeedee, just doesn't sound right. Especially when I look at some of your previous posts, wolfie. In your old posts, your wife is here / not here. and your MIL is running the business / not running the business. Bt15,000 is hardly even going to cover a farang living and renting in CM. So, either you are seriously loaded, or there is more than a hint of BS being put out on the internet.

God what's with you people with trying to make out everyone as a liar. If you DID read my post you will see: My wife doesn't work at the cafe (as it happens she is currently back in the UK on her own working a contract - she left about 4 weeks ago - she does this regulalry as its her job to and she earns far more doing this than working in the cafe!); The MIL (as stated) was here UNTIL recently when she went back to Bangkok and left my sister in law to work the cafe for her; I said at least 3 times above I DO NOT LIVE ON THIS MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! the 30k give or take is split between my Mrs (OK her bank account if you really think someone has to physically go and collect notes) and my SIL - My wife earns and I earn at our own jobs and the cafe was, is and always will be nothing but a bonus at best for us (ALSO as stated above); To be honest, I could probably live on 15k here if I didn't have the kids here (school fees etc), but that's another story and of no relevence; No idea how living on 15k would make me seriously loaded - comment just doesn't track.

There is no need for me to BS - what would be the point? What I am saying is true, I couldn't give a rats arse if you believe it or not (other than the fact you are openly denouncing me as a liar based on your missreading, poor logic and guesswork) - its not important. I only brought it up (as I stated several times)to show an earlier poster that such places can and do earn more than just basic subsistance earnings (and for a Tai 30k is far from subsistance!)

So please, before accusing anyone of being a liar and making a complete arse of yourself, at least have the decency to read the bloody posts.

[mrdeedee]

so what does the place gross?????????????if be4 wages is 30k im thinking gross of at least 300,000.

is your accountant thai????????????/

and an earlier guy has questioned this fruit picking deal. can you tell us more i know some thai girls who wouldnt mind making that kind of dough:lol: :lol:

Edited September 9, 2010 by mrdeedee

[wolf5370]

Doing the fruit thing in Finland - LOL have you ever heard of a Thai woman going to a western country to pick fruit (illegally) - Maybe what she does involves a banana but its got <deleted> all to do with picking fruit HA HA so funny

OK its obvious you are just an obnoxious dick. She has family there that own a farm - one of the crops that the farm has is berries of some discription (I believe, as stated, they are blueberries). She goes over there and gets paid for picking the fruit by her uncle. The uncle/aunt are happy about it as labour is expensive in Finland (so I am told) and she, along with her sister who lives there and some other Thais that live there too, work hard and get the crop in quickly and cheaply compared. She has a legal visa to visit the country - and as Finland is NOT Thailand, she can help famly on the farm without needing a work permit, so no she is not there illegally. You continual accusations of her being a prostitute shows what yuou think of Thai women - thsi, I would suggest, is because it is the only class of Thai woman you have ever had the opportunity to be around.

If I just wanted to make up a story as to why she isn't there (though it made little difference to my post and would have ben easier if I hadn't mentioned it at all), I could have said she was off planting rice in Lumpang -- couldn't I? Or picked a country more known for fruit picking. So wake, get your mind out of the gutter and look elsewhere for your witless challenges.

[wolf5370]

just trying to do some forensic accounting here:lol: :lol: i dont know how many use profit be4 wages as a measure of how a business does. is thai tax based on profit be4 wages?

tell us how much you gross. i guess a cafe grossing 300,000 baht could throw off 30,000 a month. but 300,000 divided by 75 baht meals equals a whopping 128 meals a day..............no way your sis cooks that many individual meals a day.

ahhhhhhhhhhh...........i think ive figgured it out. does the sis do the accounting?is her profit figure the same as gross sales????????????

as you dont go near the biz i think you are being quoted thai accounting numbers.

Another genius - I was not filing a tax return, I was showing that a low rent place, run by Thais, for Thais, that some in this thread theorised couldn't earn enough to get by, did in fact earn plenty by Thai standards. Therefore, as its the wages (what the Thai actually gets out of it) that was relevent, it made sense to state it that way. It is none of your buisiness what she grosses, and not relevent. How much do you earn? How much do you have in your bank account? Your figures (300k/75b/et) just shows your ignorance in both pricing and margins. She does not do the accounting and no turnover is not the same as profit. I do the accounts - I see all receipts, dockets, bills, orders, etc - know the float and calculate the profit - I mean I do not operate the cafe in any way, I do things such as day to day accounting, menus, posters, translations etc. Tax acciunting is done by a local firm - yes Thai (are you saying Thais can not count? Are all dishonest? Like your chum you obviously mix with the wrong clas of Thai) Happy now?

Edited September 9, 2010 by wolf5370

[wolf5370]

so what does the place gross?????????????if be4 wages is 30k im thinking gross of at least 300,000.

is your accountant thai????????????/

and an earlier guy has questioned this fruit picking deal. can you tell us more i know some thai girls who wouldnt mind making that kind of dough:lol: :lol:

As you have already asked that and I have already told you its neither relevent nor any of your business, I'll leave it at that. I already answered your butt buddy too, with regard to the fruit - can't say I feel particlularly inclined to recommend you though, don't think you have the mental aptitude to pick fruit!

[lannarebirth]

Agree that 50% is a low guess. maybe 70-80% [after 6 mo] would be more realistic. I see noodle shops, karoakes, small restaurants opening and closing in a couple of months. Obvious reason for most is lack of planning, capitol and imagination.

Definately more here than in the west, as the legal registered business requirement and enforcement is so lax here. Read an article somewhere that the 'underground' economy exceeds the legal GDP and Thailand ranks # 7 in the world.

Your numbers seem about right. I think it has to do with rents. Successsful businesses tend to already own the ground they sit on and can therefore wait out just about any economic downturn. I've never seen a business perspectus here that was profitable that included debtservice on real property.

[BillR]

I have one main business which makes a decent profit (in the six figures baht) monthly. I also have one other small business, which is a small restaurant which doesn't make much, net 20k/mo after everything. However this small not very profitable business sustains my day to day expenditures so that I rarely have to take from my other business. I plan to open several maybe not so profitable businesses because ANY profit they can make is icing on the cake.

Low rent, low overhead, low effort, and decent location are key.

Edited September 9, 2010 by BillR

[mrdeedee]

how many people do you need to make 20k in a small restaurnt?

one?

2?

3?

and what does it gross????????????

[BillR]

my situation is unique, as the restaurant sits in a small building outside of a relatively busy bar. I only have one staff, the chef. It does takeaways and also the menus sit on the bar so patrons can order and eat at the bar. rent only 2k, salary 10k, electric 2k. I also put the restaurant 100% in a thais name, he is one of the staff at my other business. The lease is in my name. This way there is no BS with the government, no paperwork etc. I invested a total of 150k to build the building and equipment, an amount easy to walk away from. Business was profitable from day 1.

Edited September 9, 2010 by BillR

[BillR]

and free advice, many busy bars may have the space for a kitchen, but the owners don't want to deal with making food. Get a solid lease for the space, make decent bar food and its a win win for everyone. No need to advertise as you already have customers.

[kenallday]

Doing the fruit thing in Finland - LOL have you ever heard of a Thai woman going to a western country to pick fruit (illegally) - Maybe what she does involves a banana but its got <deleted> all to do with picking fruit HA HA so funny

OK its obvious you are just an obnoxious dick. She has family there that own a farm - one of the crops that the farm has is berries of some discription (I believe, as stated, they are blueberries). She goes over there and gets paid for picking the fruit by her uncle. The uncle/aunt are happy about it as labour is expensive in Finland (so I am told) and she, along with her sister who lives there and some other Thais that live there too, work hard and get the crop in quickly and cheaply compared. She has a legal visa to visit the country - and as Finland is NOT Thailand, she can help famly on the farm without needing a work permit, so no she is not there illegally. You continual accusations of her being a prostitute shows what yuou think of Thai women - thsi, I would suggest, is because it is the only class of Thai woman you have ever had the opportunity to be around.

If I just wanted to make up a story as to why she isn't there (though it made little difference to my post and would have ben easier if I hadn't mentioned it at all), I could have said she was off planting rice in Lumpang -- couldn't I? Or picked a country more known for fruit picking. So wake, get your mind out of the gutter and look elsewhere for your witless challenges.

No need to be rude - I just find your post implausible and the excuse you are fed for her going to Finland laughable -Ha Ha its up to you LOL . sick buffalo, mama in Hospital, fruitpicking, I no go farang - LOL

[mrdeedee]

my situation is unique, as the restaurant sits in a small building outside of a relatively busy bar. I only have one staff, the chef. It does takeaways and also the menus sit on the bar so patrons can order and eat at the bar. rent only 2k, salary 10k, electric 2k. I also put the restaurant 100% in a thais name, he is one of the staff at my other business. The lease is in my name. This way there is no BS with the government, no paperwork etc. I invested a total of 150k to build the building and equipment, an amount easy to walk away from. Business was profitable from day 1.

i believe sir.

can you give me address.

i want to watch how one person cooks, gets drinks, clears table, cashiers, takes orders................and the operation makes money to boot! when most places all i see is too much darn staff.

[robblok]

Doing the fruit thing in Finland - LOL have you ever heard of a Thai woman going to a western country to pick fruit (illegally) - Maybe what she does involves a banana but its got <deleted> all to do with picking fruit HA HA so funny

OK its obvious you are just an obnoxious dick. She has family there that own a farm - one of the crops that the farm has is berries of some discription (I believe, as stated, they are blueberries). She goes over there and gets paid for picking the fruit by her uncle. The uncle/aunt are happy about it as labour is expensive in Finland (so I am told) and she, along with her sister who lives there and some other Thais that live there too, work hard and get the crop in quickly and cheaply compared. She has a legal visa to visit the country - and as Finland is NOT Thailand, she can help famly on the farm without needing a work permit, so no she is not there illegally. You continual accusations of her being a prostitute shows what yuou think of Thai women - thsi, I would suggest, is because it is the only class of Thai woman you have ever had the opportunity to be around.

If I just wanted to make up a story as to why she isn't there (though it made little difference to my post and would have ben easier if I hadn't mentioned it at all), I could have said she was off planting rice in Lumpang -- couldn't I? Or picked a country more known for fruit picking. So wake, get your mind out of the gutter and look elsewhere for your witless challenges.

No need to be rude - I just find your post implausible and the excuse you are fed for her going to Finland laughable -Ha Ha its up to you LOL . sick buffalo, mama in Hospital, fruitpicking, I no go farang - LOL

Your an idiot you should read more newspapers.

http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Thai+berry-pickers+working+all+hours+to+get+the+crop+in+/1135259055298

[robblok]

Im really amazed at the disbelievers here, that wolf stated profit before wages is a fine indication if your a one man operation. In my country no wages are calculated for the owner of small businesses so its always profit before wages. I guess most people here are not business owners or have never worked as accountants. Here in Thailand its a good indication too for small businesses. Because the salary you take out of it is not neccesarily the salary it should be.

With this I mean you can give your wife a higher salary then a normal employee and so the profit would be off. I think he just wanted to show what they got out of it compared to someone working in service of a employer. Remember he said he did not get any money from it so in fact then its the business of the wife and her sister. So its perfectly normal to use profit before wages to make something clear.

However if he were to sell his business wages should be included (reasonable wages) to see if it turns a profit. The kind of profit you use depends on what you want to make clear.

[dave111223]

I would think the failure rate in Thailand is probably higher in than in the West (although i have no statistics backing this up) because of the following reason:

1) Start up is low cost and easy (no permits, sales certifications, memberships etc..) and the cost of stock/location etc.. much much lower than in the West. One could easily start up some kind of street vending (food or products) business for less than 10,000.

Because of this low entry cost people are far more apt to "just do it" and jump in, without adequate planning.

2) Strange partnership arrangements. I have had a number of Thai friends who started businesses (and mostly failed) with a group of friends or family members "investing" money. But they never properly structure the investment or plan how much each investor might expect to get returned.

For example a friend just bought a bunch of clothes to start selling. The cost of the stock was around 15,000. They put in 5000 of their own money and then 2 friends invested the rest. However this friend is going to be running the business by herself...but it appears the other friends will be expecting to each get 33% of the profits. So if she is someday pulling done 1,000,000 a month (having put her blood/sweat into making a successful business) friends would still be getting 33% for a paltry 5K down? Plus the agreements doesn't seem to be in writing and all very wishy-washy.

3) Lacking basic education

[BillR]

my situation is unique, as the restaurant sits in a small building outside of a relatively busy bar. I only have one staff, the chef. It does takeaways and also the menus sit on the bar so patrons can order and eat at the bar. rent only 2k, salary 10k, electric 2k. I also put the restaurant 100% in a thais name, he is one of the staff at my other business. The lease is in my name. This way there is no BS with the government, no paperwork etc. I invested a total of 150k to build the building and equipment, an amount easy to walk away from. Business was profitable from day 1.

i believe sir.

can you give me address.

i want to watch how one person cooks, gets drinks, clears table, cashiers, takes orders................and the operation makes money to boot! when most places all i see is too much darn staff.

1. My restaurant, doesn't serve drinks, The bar does.

2. If a customer wishes to dine-in, again they sit inside the bar and hence the bar staff takes and retrieves orders and clears tables at no cost to me.

3. Takeaways can be retrieved directly at the kitchen counter.

4. Cook handles being the "cashier" as the food checks and bar checks are different and again the bar staff will present the checks to the customers and bring the money to the chef for change.

As I said its a win win for everyone, bar gets customers they otherwise wouldn't have and keeps existing customers in their seats. I get access to their existing customer base.

[BillR]

double post..........

Edited September 9, 2010 by BillR

[wolf5370]

Doing the fruit thing in Finland - LOL have you ever heard of a Thai woman going to a western country to pick fruit (illegally) - Maybe what she does involves a banana but its got <deleted> all to do with picking fruit HA HA so funny

OK its obvious you are just an obnoxious dick. She has family there that own a farm - one of the crops that the farm has is berries of some description (I believe, as stated, they are blueberries). She goes over there and gets paid for picking the fruit by her uncle. The uncle/aunt are happy about it as labour is expensive in Finland (so I am told) and she, along with her sister who lives there and some other Thais that live there too, work hard and get the crop in quickly and cheaply compared. She has a legal visa to visit the country - and as Finland is NOT Thailand, she can help family on the farm without needing a work permit, so no she is not there illegally. You continual accusations of her being a prostitute shows what you think of Thai women - this, I would suggest, is because it is the only class of Thai woman you have ever had the opportunity to be around.

If I just wanted to make up a story as to why she isn't there (though it made little difference to my post and would have ben easier if I hadn't mentioned it at all), I could have said she was off planting rice in Lumpang -- couldn't I? Or picked a country more known for fruit picking. So wake, get your mind out of the gutter and look elsewhere for your witless challenges.

No need to be rude - I just find your post implausible and the excuse you are fed for her going to Finland laughable -Ha Ha its up to you LOL . sick buffalo, mama in Hospital, fruitpicking, I no go farang - LOL

As she is my SIL and I do not pay your usual moronic claptrap hardly counts a jot. I do not pay for her to go to Finland, I do not support her, so not relevant. I can see your membership here being a very short one. There is plenty of need to be rude, it is you, not I, that is casting around aspersions. You find things impluasable because you have neither the experience nor the in-sight to do otherwise. I have no idea what "and the excuse you are fed for her going to Finland " [sic] is supposed to mean, so can not comment. I have the distinct impression you are not an adult - your grammar, wordage an knowledge is very reminisent of the kiddie posts on many forums across the net, so I am fed up with playing with you now. You have not the wit not the intent to understand what is written in my posts, you are a standard troll and follow standard troll paradigms - this i evident in the quality and quantity of your postings - also given the times of your postings, I doubt very much you are in Thailand anyway. As my business is international, I am often working through the night and the only posters here at that time are overseas - like you. So, enjoy your day at high school and leave business to the grown ups that undrstand it, eh?

[wolf5370]

I would think the failure rate in Thailand is probably higher in than in the West (although i have no statistics backing this up) because of the following reason:

1) Start up is low cost and easy (no permits, sales certifications, memberships etc..) and the cost of stock/location etc.. much much lower than in the West. One could easily start up some kind of street vending (food or products) business for less than 10,000.

Because of this low entry cost people are far more apt to "just do it" and jump in, without adequate planning.

2) Strange partnership arrangements. I have had a number of Thai friends who started businesses (and mostly failed) with a group of friends or family members "investing" money. But they never properly structure the investment or plan how much each investor might expect to get returned.

For example a friend just bought a bunch of clothes to start selling. The cost of the stock was around 15,000. They put in 5000 of their own money and then 2 friends invested the rest. However this friend is going to be running the business by herself...but it appears the other friends will be expecting to each get 33% of the profits. So if she is someday pulling done 1,000,000 a month (having put her blood/sweat into making a successful business) friends would still be getting 33% for a paltry 5K down? Plus the agreements doesn't seem to be in writing and all very wishy-washy.

3) Lacking basic education

Good post.

Yes I agree - I have seen point 2 many times here. I have even had people asking me to provide all the work for a small wage and a small slice of the pie - I think to myself, fine, your idea, but no my hard work and execution - you risk a few grand and I risk the time/effort I could have been earning beter money an at the end of the day I get the smallest cherry. The points is, other than an idea there is no understanding of how to make things work, how to go about executing it. Ideas are two a penny - its execution that makes a business.

I would also add (4) for the farang 'business' starters - Lack of knowledge of the business; lack of acumen; grandiose expectations; feeling of superiority leading them to believ they can succeed where Thais can't just because they are western; lack of ideas forces them into choosing the overbaked no-longer-profitable-off-the-shelf-buciness models; Need to do something as teaching is paying too little; think because they have ome reddies behind them that they can buy their way in an do thongs heaper an better than the locals; and finally (possibly) the wrong reasons in the first place (e.g. to help out the Mrs family).

Point 3 doesn't have to be a showstopper. There was (is?) a guy who has some warehouses near Blackwall Tunnel in London. He dropped out of school very early and can neither read nor write. He started some 40 years ago or so, collecting old wooden pallets from deliveries and selling them back to delivery companies - back then they tended to be left behind and just replaced. No he has masive warehouses full of old pallets - he pays something like £5 for any good condition pallets turned in to him (i.e. delivered to his warehouse) and sells them for more than twice that amount. Companies go to him now rather than making new pallets. The idea is green (though I doubt that was even a consideration back then) and simple. I am sure at least being able to read a write wiould have helped him along the way, but he is a multi-millionaire and has a monopoly that only gets stronger (with the green lobby pressure). I saw a documentary on him a while back on TV when I was in the UK. Of course, this i certaintly the exception to the rule, but a lot of drop outs made some serious buisnesses (Bill Gates - though that was from university not school and he had a wealthy family to help - Alan Sugar, who came to the UK as an immigrant with his father penniless - and so on).

I wonder if that would even be possible in Thailand with all the beaurocratic hoops and fences to manage one would need some real determination, money and smarts to get anywhere other than SME.