Monk - Anybody been one or thought about it?

[ThaiPauly]

No girls, no beer,  are you nuts

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and no idiots either. But you can have the nuts

[ThaiPauly]

Pandit was speaking of meditation retreats a few posts back, ThaiPauly, would something like that help you test your back out? Maybe a week in a retreat, or maybe daily visits to a retreat, would help.

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Yes Thaibebop, that is where my current form of thinking is going, but not until I can go out without wearing a Corset. I will be researching everything posted and may find what I am looking for right here.

Thanks for the post

TP

[sabaijai]

And about physical disability barring ordination Ghozon mentioned..... I do have a condition where I have to take synthetic hormone (ADH) puffs to my nose a few times a day. Without it, I suffer from frequent urination and excessive thirst, therefore no concentration for meditation (or whatever I do for that matter). It is an irreversible condition so I have to use this medication for the rest of my life. Does anybody know if it's OK to bring my daily medication and keep it with me at all times while in ordination?

I think this would be considered a 'grey' area, and thus up to the abbot's discretion. Generally the idea is that any pre-existing health conditions that might hinder carrying out the duties of a monk preclude one from ordination. It's a bit like enlisting in the armed forces that way, except there's no physical, just an interview about your health.

Once a person becomes a monk, new medical conditions that arise are treated with medicines, etc, as needed.

Monks are permitted to keep medicines on hand, but since you need access to the ADH all the time, you'd have to depend on lay supporters to keep the supply going. I think most Thai abbots would ordain you (other conditions fulfilled) if they knew it was a temporary ordination.

[thaibebop]

Pandit was speaking of meditation retreats a few posts back, ThaiPauly, would something like that help you test your back out? Maybe a week in a retreat, or maybe daily visits to a retreat, would help.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes Thaibebop, that is where my current form of thinking is going, but not until I can go out without wearing a Corset. I will be researching everything posted and may find what I am looking for right here.

Thanks for the post

TP

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I don't know what knid of back problem you have, but could chiropractic care help? I was training to work in that field and learned some amazing things that could be helped with such treatment. If the order would let you visit a chiropratic doctor once or twice a week, that may help with any back pain you might experience. Good luck, TP. If I have any other ideas I'll let you know.

[Nordlys]

Hi Nordlys

there seems to be so many rules covering ordination, that I personally couldn't comment. Although it may well be the case that having an existing, chronic condition may exclude someone from ordination in the Thai Theravada tradition.

I think that the place to look is:

Buddhist Monastic Discipline, Volume II

Also a fuller and quite authorative discussion on Buddhism and disability can be found on:

http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=7937&

As you'll guess , I'm BBB on that thread.

Good fortune

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Hi Ghonzon,

Thank you so much for the link (and sorry for my late response). Very informative and interesting discussion in that thread. And like you, frankly I'm a bit shocked and bewildered by the ruling on who can/cannot ordain according to the monastic code and their choice of words such as "undesirable" and "blind and deaf and dumb". My condition does not fall into any of the physical/mental handicap, (cosmetic) deformity described in that paragraph, except that I might be more "feeble" than the average person of my age now that I live on half my lungs (but no extirpation involved). However, I think it's fair to assume me being dependent on a synthetic hormone can be more of a burden to the monastery than you with prosthetic leg. And perhaps it's in my best interest not to ordain if I'm not confident of maintaining good health for 3 months or so while under ordination and can not keep up with the studies/duties as an ordained monk.

[Nordlys]

I think this would be considered a 'grey' area, and thus up to the abbot's discretion. Generally the idea is that any pre-existing health conditions that might hinder carrying out the duties of a monk preclude one from ordination. It's a bit like enlisting in the armed forces that way, except there's no physical, just an interview about your health.

Once a person becomes a monk, new medical conditions that arise are treated with medicines, etc, as needed.

Monks are permitted to keep medicines on hand, but since you need access to the ADH all the time, you'd have to depend on lay supporters to keep the supply going. I think most Thai abbots would ordain you (other conditions fulfilled) if they knew it was a temporary ordination.

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Thanks for the inputs, sabaijai. I don't need the synthetic ADH supplied to me by lay supporters while in ordination as long as the monastery allows me to stock 3 months worth of hormones to be kept in their fridge (I would need about 2 - 3 bottles a month). It would be the best if I'm allowed to keep one bottle handy with me at all times as it's not easy predicting when the effect of medicine expires and I would need at least three puffs a day (but I guess the robe has no pocket?). I'm just afraid it may not look good to the other ascetic monks if I go access and open the fridge 3 times a day (in the afternoon and evening too) while everybody's in meditation, study session, etc.

[Ariya]

Pandit was speaking of meditation retreats a few posts back, ThaiPauly, would something like that help you test your back out? Maybe a week in a retreat, or maybe daily visits to a retreat, would help.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes Thaibebop, that is where my current form of thinking is going, but not until I can go out without wearing a Corset. I will be researching everything posted and may find what I am looking for right here.

Thanks for the post

TP

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Hi,

I had a back operation in Pakistan a few years ago. I had been totally paralysed for 6 months, just lying in a dreary Karachi hospital gazing at the ceiling. My doctor, who was Pakistan's number 1 neuro surgeon advised an operation with local anaesthetic because movement of the back caused by others during unconsciousness would not aid a rapid recovery. On the 3rd day I was walking. Not much really, just around the bed. The doctor, who died weeks after the operation, warned me NOT to do the usual exercises prescribed by physiotherapists and I happily took this advice. No pain, but the lotus position is no longer possible as I am missing a lower disc. You should be perfectly normal in about a year and ordination should be possible then

[ThaiPauly]

I am at present biding my time, I had to have another operation last week, for a lesser problem, but nevetheless I am still up for it, but firstly I have to deal with a 21m baht lawsuit that has been filed gainst me in the UK.

I must say I dont deserve this but ......

I know his claim is all rubbish and the person suing me is just toying with me, but I cannot afford to loose the money. I have a Wife and 4 children to support.

The day I sold out my UK Business Interests I had a Bhudda image (given to me by my Wife) on the negotiating table and went into payer before I signed the contract. Now the buyer says he was mislead. What will be will be . Win or Loose it will not alter the fact, just means others can not live off my money should I loose.

As I said before I would not consider becoming a full time Monk as I Love My Wife and would not wish to be without her, as a devout Bhuddist she will help me get through this.

What can one do? I have to fight this spurious claim dont I?

I really hope I am not contradicting myself here and search for your thoughts

TP

[thaibebop]

I have always felt that enlightenment can be found by simply living ones life. Following the eight fold path when dealing with real life instead of sitting in a room locked away from the world seemed a harder but more profound way to gain enlightenment. And perhaps a longer lasting understanding. I hope that helps, and that I have made sense.

[sabaijai]

I have always felt that enlightenment can be found by simply living ones life. Following the eight fold path when dealing with real life instead of sitting in a room locked away from the world seemed a harder but more profound way to gain enlightenment. And perhaps a longer lasting understanding. I hope that helps, and that I have made sense.

Yes as you say in some ways householder dhamma is both the most arduous and the most rewarding.

If the claim is spurious, then of course you must fight it.

[Mr. Farang]

Please keep in mind that the process of shaving one's head and entering into the life of a Monk is a Buddhist tradition and has also become a core tradition for Thai people.

My experience is that before entering into the temple to practice the tradition of a Monk, you should have considerable experience in meditation and much reading, knowledge and practice of core Buddhist teachings.

One analog would be to have a student ask if he or she should study advanced newtonian physics - and for someone to reply "yes" without first asking if the student had good knowledge of calculus and differential equations.

A very similar parallel can be made for people who are interested in Buddhist thought - hence my recommendation would be a few years of concentrated Buddhist study as a layperson before entering a temple to practice the tradition of the Sangha. This path of study and practice will provide, in my opinion, a more optimal experience of life with the Sangha.

Edited August 21, 2005 by Mr. Farang

[sabaijai]

Please keep in mind that the process of shaving one's head and entering into the life of a Monk is a Buddhist tradition and has also become a core tradition for Thai people.

My experience is that before entering into the temple  to practice the tradition of a Monk, you should have considerable experience in meditation and much reading, knowledge and practice of core Buddhist teachings. 

One analog would be to have a student ask if he or she should study advanced newtonian physics - and for someone to reply "yes" without first asking if the student had good knowledge of calculus and differential equations.   

A very similar parallel can be made for people who are interested in Buddhist thought - hence my recommendation would be a few years of concentrated Buddhist study as a layperson before entering a temple to practice the tradition of the Sangha.  This path of study and practice will provide, in my opinion, a more optimal experience of life with the Sangha.

Good point. Of course many Thais ordain as monks with very little knowledge of dhamma beforehand. More optimal, yes. Absolutely necessary- who can say for sure?