Fatal Pattaya Baht-Bus Accident Caused By Drunk Canadian

[sillyman99]

I suppose nearly all Farangs you know who drink alcohol and who has a car or a bike Never drinks and drives. All ThaiVisa members obviously, cos they're different.

And of course it goes without saying, NO ThaiVisa members themselves ever drink and drive, never have done, never will do, complete background check and regular blood tests are all part of the registration process on this forum, and total honesty in posts is mandatory.

Yeah right.....

I'll bet not even all of your friends drink and drive, you just believe they do to justify your own negligent choices.

Maybe you oughta take a little alcohol holiday and get some perspective.

So you're a gambling man too, wow, you'll be getting banned from this puritanical utopia soon.

Personal accusations of me lying, my negligence, suggestions of alcohol abuse and a lack or perspective !! Whatever next, I'm appalled!!

I'm gonna sue you for the trauma you have caused me with this unprovoked attack, at least 6 weeks onshore, hospitalization, convalescence and therapy.

Expect to hear from my Army of Lawyers soon,.

Or you could just buy me a few beers down Soi 6 instead.

[animatic]

quote canuckamuck

Born in Lebanon. They could just as well call him the Lebanese man, but Canadian is easier to say I guess.

Canadian, born in Lebanon, with a name like "Francois Joseph Giannini".

Odd, to say the least.

No, it is NOT ODD. Not odd in the least to people from multicultural societies. Not defending this drunk at all, but leave his ethnicity/nationality OUT of this, please.

Er, yes it is. Thank God I didn't say anything about his sexuality.

Another narrow minded bigot who can't accept that people may legally hold differing nationalities by nature of their parentage as well as their place of birth. You probably don't like immigrants in your homeland very much but you are happy to call Thailand your home eh? That makes you an immigrant too. Do a little wiki reading about Beirut before you start snide insinuations based on YOUR racist views. As for the last post which was a thinly veiled swipe at one of your fellow forum members sexual preferences, that makes you an even nastier piece of work.

The nationality of driver of the black pickup has as much importance as the place of birth of the deceased baht bus driver; absolutely NONE.

Looking at the video AND KNOWING THE LOCATION, it does appear the driver of the black pickup, regardless of race, intoxication, speed, attire, chosen female company (and thus perceived sexuality), post-accident behaviour and discounting the observed driving skills or otherwise of this (RIP) or other songtaew drivers, didn't just fail to give way at the roundabout but went deliberately the WRONG WAY around it and t-boned the baht bus.

Guilty as charged, maybe with mitigating circumstances but highly unlikely.

As I read this:

Canadian-Italian man, marries Lebanese woman while on consular, NGO duty or business in Lebanon a generation back. His son, then is raised in Canada, when father returned from assignment, and not as a Muslim, even if his mother is/was, so he drinks.

Not to hard to figure out. Makes him no less culpable for his bad actions.

Edited September 11, 2010 by animatic

[canuckamuck]

Sillyman, aside from this rather black and white disagreement I find most of your posts amusing. But not amusing enough for me to drive 700k to have a beer. I'll take a rain check.

[tropo]

"How can anyone drive through a round about at a high rate of speed". I assume you are not familiar with this paticular round about. The Canadian was coming down Naklua road heading toward the round about. When he got to the round about he made a immediate right turn which would take him to the begining of Beach Road and not actually go through the round about. At that point he hit the bhat bus. So it appears he never really entered the round about but tried to take an illegal shortcut around it. It's a big intersection so he could have been going pretty fast at that point.

If you read the original report of this accident you'll find that they said that he avoided the roundabout. That's a pretty clear way to describe what he did.

[Buchholz]

Nearly every Farang I know who drinks Alcohol and has a motorcycle or a Car, drinks and drives on a regular basis.

Do they also smoke ice and drive like this moron apparently did, or do they limit themselves to only one drug, in the form of alcohol, at a time prior to operating a motor vehicle, because to imbibe in two might actually be dangerous?

Edited September 11, 2010 by Buchholz

[Dakhar]

Aren't we all on our high horses tonight. Im sure not one of us has ever drove after drinking in Thailand. Tragic as it is, wait till a few more facts come out. As someone mentioned, there should be some cctv in that area, maybe that will change the picture some. That is a dangerous roundabout at the best of times, and giving way is not the way it is done here, bigger is always right.

I don't drink and I certainly do not do illegal drugs... I dont fit in to your category of common, I hope the dude gets no mercy

[contemplating]

`This seems to be a very hot topic, and it should be. But when I was a kid and watching the cowboy flicks, there was always a lynching. Even then, I thought this was a bs movie, since people cannot be so stupid, as to want to lynch a person. Well, seems there are a lot of people trying to lynch this guy already. Fortunately in the last half of the post here, some people looked at the other side of the coin. As someone said, I'm sure that most or all of us have went home legally drunk, according to our own countries laws. I live next to several bars, and every night, all you decent farangs come here and get legally drunk and drive home.

As far as "scum" are concerned, I'm sure most Thais consider all of us scum. Just remember, the next accident might be you, and if you have to pay "according with Thai customs", then you just might lose everything, guilty or not. As for everything bad happening in Pattaya, because of all the "scum", one reason is you are reading about it in Pattaya visa, or a Pattaya paper. There are accidents all over Thailand, but why would they be in the Pattaya news?? No one here is interested if a baht bus gets in an accident in bum f--- egypt.

Changing of drinking attitudes in Thailand does not start with catching tourist and trying to make money off of them. We have no idea what will happen with this "Canadian ", but I'm sure he wont get off easily.

"Why would girls get in with a drunk?" Well, they could have been waiting for him to pass out and take his money! Or maybe he was just so charming, that they fell in love with him!

I have seen many wrecks around the world, and it is very common for people, especially the driver, to walk around in a daze, just too much stuff going through his head, and the fuses are blowing. Thats why the police they take blood test. Its not a situation where you "guess" if someone has been drinking or not.

Its good to see a good discussion going on, about a very important subject, much better than where to get the best sushi. Maybe some day, things will change here, as far as drinking goes. Actually, we all of us should probably "go back home", but then what would we have to complain about?

[sillyman99]

Sillyman, aside from this rather black and white disagreement I find most of your posts amusing. But not amusing enough for me to drive 700k to have a beer. I'll take a rain check.

[animatic]

Certainly part of speeding while drunk is the invincibility ego thing.

I know people who drive slightly drunk, but 'moderately-slowly', no so slow as to create another driving hazard, but not so fast that they aren't in control. And get home safe.

It's not recommended, I don't like it, but this is Thailand and it is hard to stop them. The culture of " Friends don't let friends drive drunk." is just not there. The problem ones are the ones that think they are great drivers and when drunk push it hard because their ego says they can, when drunk the ego comes to the front.

No less a crime and a hazard in either case.

If this guy is found guilty, prosecute to the fullest extent.

If not he might have been weaving about from a head injury he sustained, At 4:30 am this seems less likely, though he might have just gotten off work closed out the place he works at or runs and was heading home too tired.

So the benefit of the legal doubt till more facts in place.

What isn't in doubt is;

He was behind the wheel, hit the sonchow and killed someone.

That is prosecutable drunk or sober.

Edited September 11, 2010 by animatic

[JSixpack]

Drunk driver causing an accident, how unexpected.

I have been all over the world and a lots of rowdy places. Pattaya was the only place I ever been and saw at 11 AM patrons falling off barstools on a regular basis.

This has to be the Sewer in the world not how it looks like but the people that hang out there.

Agreed, Pattaya is the true "Brown Eye" of Thailand.

Nonsense. Drunk driving accidents happen all over the world all the time. And some are just as bad if not worse.

Trolls here use any excuse to bash Pattaya.

[sirchai]

Born in Lebanon. They could just as well call him the Lebanese man, but Canadian is easier to say I guess.

Canadian, born in Lebanon, with a name like "Francois Joseph Giannini".

Odd, to say the least.

No, it is NOT ODD. Not odd in the least to people from multicultural societies. Not defending this drunk at all, but leave his ethnicity/nationality OUT of this, please.

Er, yes it is. Thank God I didn't say anything about his sexuality.

I'm glad you didn't mention his homo sexual affords....

[sirchai]

"How can anyone drive through a round about at a high rate of speed". I assume you are not familiar with this paticular round about. The Canadian was coming down Naklua road heading toward the round about. When he got to the round about he made a immediate right turn which would take him to the begining of Beach Road and not actually go through the round about. At that point he hit the bhat bus. So it appears he never really entered the round about but tried to take an illegal shortcut around it. It's a big intersection so he could have been going pretty fast at that point.

If you read the original report of this accident you'll find that they said that he avoided the roundabout. That's a pretty clear way to describe what he did.

Guess he did not "avoid" the roundabout. It's a typical mistake drivers are doing who are used to drive on the right lane.Even without alcohol or Naam Kaeng.

[sirchai]

I have zero sympathy for the Canadian National originally born in Beirut, and I hope he goes to a Thai jail for a long time. But, there are a few discrepancies in the report. How can anyone drive through a round about at a high rate of speed? By their very design a round-about slows a vehicle. However, understand that North Americans drive on the opposite side of the road to Thailand, and in a foggy state of mind (being impaired etc) a North American driver might likely turn the wrong way into a round-about.

There is NO excuse for driving impaired after consuming too much alcohol, but considering what I see daily while driving on Thai roads it does not surprise me. It appears that at least a third of all Thai drivers are impaired to some degree or the other. Driving laws and regulations in Thailand only seem to be a general suggestion on how people are SUPPOSED to act. There is little or no enforcement except for the cursory, and very occasional, spot checks to make an appearance of police doing their job.

"How can anyone drive through a round about at a high rate of speed". I assume you are not familiar with this paticular round about. The Canadian was coming down Naklua road heading toward the round about. When he got to the round about he made a immediate right turn which would take him to the begining of Beach Road and not actually go through the round about. At that point he hit the bhat bus. So it appears he never really entered the round about but tried to take an illegal shortcut around it. It's a big intersection so he could have been going pretty fast at that point.

This guy wasn't driving much in LOS. A typical mistake for people used to drive on the right lane. Thinking about the fact that he renewed his passport in Bangkok I'd assume that he was without a driver's license. Sorry, if I'm wrong.

[stormnut]

I hope the Canadian man is severely punished for what he did. Drinking & driving is never acceptable, even when you think you are "ok."

I think any drunk driver who causes loss of life should support the victims family financially for 5 years or so

[eefoo]

What everyone seems to have overlooked is that the roundabout is not actually a roundabout. In fact its a death trap. It is not a roundabout as its not possible to go all the way around it. So its not really surprising that many people dont follow proper roundabout rules.

Even though I am from the UK and would have no problem using the roundabout the correct way round, I always have a degree of uncertainty when approaching that junction.

There is no excuse if he was drunk of course but the lesson should be re-design that junction. Nothing will happen of course.

Andy has it right here - the 'roundabout' is actually barricaded off between the two lanes of Pattaya Nua road, so that anyone coming from Naklua Road (as was the pick-em up driver in this case) has only one place to go, and that is eastwards on Nua. To get to the Beach Road, you have to travel several hundred yards up that road and make a U turn back down to the 'roundabout on the westward lane. From there you can get to the Beach Road turnoff.

As it has been implied that this chap was a 'resident' I would guess he probably knew this and was therefore trying to avoid the hassle by going the wrong way. It is after all a very wide piece of roadway, and at 4am any sensible driver would get away with it by creeping very slowly round the outside, past the entrance to the Dusit and then onto Beach Road, while making sure no other traffic was around.

Obviously this idiot didn't do that, and thought he could do it at speed.

RIP to the poor victims, and I hope Mr Giannini learns that it's not OK to kill people while ignoring traffic laws, whether under the influence or not.

[Randee]

Why have I got 2 email pages full of notifications on this topic and yet nobody has actually replied directly to my comment?

and hey Admin, can you make a "Like" and "not like" button same as facebook and youtube so we can vote on peoples comments? nice to be able to click and nice to get feedback whether it's + or - yes? and good way to view popularity/intelligence of poster ...

[whybother]

Why have I got 2 email pages full of notifications on this topic and yet nobody has actually replied directly to my comment?

and hey Admin, can you make a "Like" and "not like" button same as facebook and youtube so we can vote on peoples comments? nice to be able to click and nice to get feedback whether it's + or - yes? and good way to view popularity/intelligence of poster ...

Have a look at the + and - icons on the bottom right of each post. I'm pretty sure that's what you're looking for.

And I assume the "Watch" button at the top of the page will send an email to you for EVERY new post, not just the ones replying to you. "Watch" applies to the whole thread, not just your post.

Edited September 11, 2010 by whybother

[tropo]

Guess he did not "avoid" the roundabout. It's a typical mistake drivers are doing who are used to drive on the right lane.Even without alcohol or Naam Kaeng.

So right hand drivers typically cross the centre strip and drive right past them at high speed?

[tropo]

I hope the Canadian man is severely punished for what he did. Drinking & driving is never acceptable, even when you think you are "ok."

I think any drunk driver who causes loss of life should support the victims family financially for 5 years or so

...so you're making the assumption that drunk drivers all have plenty of money?

[siamiam]

I passed through there tonight and to what I remembered, there are TWO CCTV cameras on that round-a-bout. Has anyone seen the actual video of this accident? I'm very curious if a speeding baht bus was at fault. I know I've almost been killed several times (on my bike) by a bhat bus from hel_l speeding as if his life depending on it.

In addition to his post #104 quoted above, I want to reference post #50 by Tokay, as well as post #61 by Newermonkey, and post #65 by Cardholder.

I have seen many instances of people driving in Thailand without their headlights turned on. I would like to know if the baht bus had its headlights on. Tokay asks a good question, "was the baht bus driver also tested for intoxication?" If one or both of the drivers involved in this accident test possitive for intoxication, do they have any prior arrests for this?

I am not taking anyone's side and I am not looking for mitigating circumstances for one party or the other. However, I would like to see the blame for this terrible accident placed accurately where it belongs. Right now, it looks like Mr. Giannini may have commited a traffic infraction, that caused or contributted to deaths and injuries, but there could be more to the story. If there is a CCTV recording of the accident, as Tokay has suggested there may be, it might answer many questions.

Edited September 11, 2010 by siamiam

[contemplating]

I think eefoo has come to the most logical conclusion in this story, if there is something logical about it. The fact is that the idea of this roundabout, is not a roundabout, and people coming from Naklua are forced to drive in the opposite direction, if they are going to Beach Road. This same type of road design is everywhere in Thailand, and very dangerous, making a U-turn from the fast lane. Sometime you need to go many km in the wrong directions to get where your going, so people start to learn the "shortcuts". Probably at 4am, this shortcut has been done many times, without an accident. But in this case, a tragic accident, and because a farang was involved, it gets even more coverage. I wonder if the road department ever learns anything from the accidents that happen.

[Spaniel]

What everyone seems to have overlooked is that the roundabout is not actually a roundabout. In fact its a death trap. It is not a roundabout as its not possible to go all the way around it. So its not really surprising that many people dont follow proper roundabout rules.

Even though I am from the UK and would have no problem using the roundabout the correct way round, I always have a degree of uncertainty when approaching that junction.

There is no excuse if he was drunk of course but the lesson should be re-design that junction. Nothing will happen of course.

Andy has it right here - the 'roundabout' is actually barricaded off between the two lanes of Pattaya Nua road, so that anyone coming from Naklua Road (as was the pick-em up driver in this case) has only one place to go, and that is eastwards on Nua. To get to the Beach Road, you have to travel several hundred yards up that road and make a U turn back down to the 'roundabout on the westward lane. From there you can get to the Beach Road turnoff.

As it has been implied that this chap was a 'resident' I would guess he probably knew this and was therefore trying to avoid the hassle by going the wrong way. It is after all a very wide piece of roadway, and at 4am any sensible driver would get away with it by creeping very slowly round the outside, past the entrance to the Dusit and then onto Beach Road, while making sure no other traffic was around.

Obviously this idiot didn't do that, and thought he could do it at speed.

RIP to the poor victims, and I hope Mr Giannini learns that it's not OK to kill people while ignoring traffic laws, whether under the influence or not.

I have driven through this round about many times. It is only at certin times that the barricade is set up directing traffic from Naklua road eastward on Pattaya Nua then requiring a u-turn to get back to the circle and on to Beach road. It's doubtful the barricade was set ufp at 4 am. as it's usually set up during peak traffic times.

[threelegcowboy]

What everyone seems to have overlooked is that the roundabout is not actually a roundabout. In fact its a death trap. It is not a roundabout as its not possible to go all the way around it. So its not really surprising that many people dont follow proper roundabout rules.

Even though I am from the UK and would have no problem using the roundabout the correct way round, I always have a degree of uncertainty when approaching that junction.

There is no excuse if he was drunk of course but the lesson should be re-design that junction. Nothing will happen of course.

Andy has it right here - the 'roundabout' is actually barricaded off between the two lanes of Pattaya Nua road, so that anyone coming from Naklua Road (as was the pick-em up driver in this case) has only one place to go, and that is eastwards on Nua. To get to the Beach Road, you have to travel several hundred yards up that road and make a U turn back down to the 'roundabout on the westward lane. From there you can get to the Beach Road turnoff.

As it has been implied that this chap was a 'resident' I would guess he probably knew this and was therefore trying to avoid the hassle by going the wrong way. It is after all a very wide piece of roadway, and at 4am any sensible driver would get away with it by creeping very slowly round the outside, past the entrance to the Dusit and then onto Beach Road, while making sure no other traffic was around.

Obviously this idiot didn't do that, and thought he could do it at speed.

RIP to the poor victims, and I hope Mr Giannini learns that it's not OK to kill people while ignoring traffic laws, whether under the influence or not.

EEFOO you are correct about him taking the shortcut etc. I took a ride on a bahtbus to the roundabout. Skid and scrape marks are still there as well as a damaged tree.

[threelegcowboy]

I just took a bahtbus to the Dolphin Circle, it stopped like always to the entrance of beach road direction. That was the spot where one of the vehicles hit the tree. Another passenger and myself got off and proceded to pay the driver. He sped off without our payment.

My take is he just discovered as we did that it was the scene of the wreck. He is superstitous and could not hang around to be paid. Maybe he knew too much about driver and #531 bus.

So in the future when I get on a bahtbus and the driver is driving CRAZY, too fast etc. When I get off to pay I will say (531) ha sam nung. To give him something to think about.

RIP

Edited September 11, 2010 by threelegcowboy

[tropo]

I passed through there tonight and to what I remembered, there are TWO CCTV cameras on that round-a-bout. Has anyone seen the actual video of this accident? I'm very curious if a speeding baht bus was at fault. I know I've almost been killed several times (on my bike) by a bhat bus from hel_l speeding as if his life depending on it.

In addition to his post #104 quoted above, I want to reference post #50 by Tokay, as well as post #61 by Newermonkey, and post #65 by Cardholder.

I have seen many instances of people driving in Thailand without their headlights turned on. I would like to know if the baht bus had its headlights on. Tokay asks a good question, "was the baht bus driver also tested for intoxication?" If one or both of the drivers involved in this accident test possitive for intoxication, do they have any prior arrests for this?

I am not taking anyone's side and I am not looking for mitigating circumstances for one party or the other. However, I would like to see the blame for this terrible accident placed accurately where it belongs. Right now, it looks like Mr. Giannini may have commited a traffic infraction, that caused or contributted to deaths and injuries, but there could be more to the story. If there is a CCTV recording of the accident, as Tokay has suggested there may be, it might answer many questions.

Assuming the report was correct and the Canadian bypassed the roundabout to turn right at a high rate of speed it wouldn't matter much if the baht bus driver was drunk or not, it wouldn't have been his fault.

[overhaul38]

Could be true as written but..... I would certainly want an independent, unbiased investigation before we start the sentencing phase.

[Moonrakers]

I know Frank personally.

Not seen him for a few years, he was always a much more portly chap so it appears as though he has been hitting the drugs way too much.

If you ever met him you'd find him a likeable guy, he has fukced up seriously though. Your a nice guy Frank, but you can't expect much sympathy.

RIP to the victims.

[RedNIvar]

RIP to those who died and condolences to their families. I hope for the best to those who were injured.

This incident brings to light the issues of responsibility of drinking. It is easy for anyone in Bangkok to go out drinking and take a cab back home. It will only cost you a price of another beer or two.There is no excuse.

In Pattaya however, I'm not sure of the Taxi service. However if the is an instance that you have to drink and drive, you have to follow the speed limit and the traffic rules. Just because it is in the wee hours of morning does not mean you do what you like. Regardless of the state of this Canadian, he had to follow protocol. This was his mistake. Everything else only compounds the issue.

All I'll say is that he is lucky that this happened in Thailand where he has an option of paying his way out of it, if he has the money. Anywhere else, he would be sent away for a very long time.

[COXYATCITY]

Drunk driver causing an accident, how unexpected.

I have been all over the world and a lots of rowdy places. Pattaya was the only place I ever been and saw at 11 AM patrons falling off barstools on a regular basis.

This has to be the Sewer in the world not how it looks like but the people that hang out there.

you have not travelled enough then,narrow minded ,probably you have never been here before,,go to Ibiza or or other Spanish resorts,and many more places in the world ,and many more places in Thailand ,where people are off there faces on what ever substance,you hate Pattaya start a new thread,as this problem happens every where in the world.,this thread is about something that can happen anywhere,without you giving the good people of this city(which is much bigger than the tourist town) a bad name,pattaya is much bigger than walking st,beach rd, 2nd rd ,travel some more and take in your surroundings,not just rowdy places in the world,where are these rowdy places in the world that you have travelled to,you must like it?????????

[sirchai]

People get drunk all over the world its nothing to do with it being Pattaya oh righteous ones.

That junction is very poorly designed. Clearly it was a roundabout at some time.

Baht buses drive like crazy in Pattaya. With the amount of money flooding in to the city it would be nice to see a public transport system.

I've only been to Pattaya once and never used or paid any attention to the baht buses. I would have thought they drive extremely slowly, as elsewhere, in order to pick up fares?

No, they are generally not slow. Most go as fast as they can, but within safe limits, and I would estimate about 10 percent are wild fast. Of course if restricted by traffic, which is common, they can't go faster than the traffic allows.

What a post Jingthing. G= Get A= Any Y= Yankies