Fatal Pattaya Baht-Bus Accident Caused By Drunk Canadian

[yellow1red1]

That was a very serious accident and sympathies to all the victims. It is worth noting, however, that such accidents are very rare in the baht bus system here. Compared to motorcycles, they are a safe form of transport.

My condolences to the lady's family and friends and a speedy recovery for the other victims.

Guess nothing happened to the Canadian, any information?

If guilty, let him pay...........................................

In the video he is walking around, bruises on face, passport says he was born in Lebannon.

Really looked like he was wearing a biker gang style leather vest with a big crest on the back.

[cardholder]

My goodness ! You do have a habit taking words and using them for your own purposes. I suspect that you are more familiar with 'flaming' than I will ever be.

I have no intention of 'flaming' you. 'Crap' , or garbage if you prefer, is simply the expression I used to give an opinion on the content of your post. If you are offended I am sure that you are fully capable of finding the afore-mentioned report button.

Forum rules:

4) Not to flame fellow members.

Flaming will not be tolerated. 'Flaming' is defined as posting or responding to a message in a way clearly intended to incite useless arguments, to launch personal attacks, to insult, or to be hateful towards other members. This includes useless criticism, name-calling, swearing and any other comments meant to incite anger.

I'm trying to be nice here, but you make it difficult. Referring to a post as "crap" or "garbage" IS flaming. If you don't agree with my post, then explain why you don't agree.

I am well-aware of the definition, and I repeat that I had no intention of flaming you. The definition actually fits some of your posts in the 'Are Pattaya businesses making too much money" thread.

Your post was as follows:-

Thai society must take all of the blame. In any country where alcohol is legally sold and consumed there must be strict laws preventing intoxicated people from driving. Drunk people will never self-regulate their activities without strict laws in place.

There are so many extremely dangerous activities allowed on Pattaya streets I wouldn't know where to begin. All the cops really do is check on helmets and one way streets in the tourist areas and do registration and licence checks from time to time. If they took the dangerous drivers and motorcyclists off the road there probably wouldn't be any traffic congestion. Certain religious beliefs coupled with fast vehicles is a deadly combination.

My criticism of your post is that I consider it wholly inappropriate to blame Thai society for the actions of this 'Canadian'. He would be guilty of manslaughter in any civilised country and, in Thailand, his punishment may well be worse. Blaming Thai society for the action of an individual (who I suspect poured his own drinks down his own throat) is out of order when two Thai citizens have been killed and others injured.

I am not interested in debating it, but I also fail to see the connection with religious beliefs and fast vehilcles.

[tropo]

My criticism of your post is that I consider it wholly inappropriate to blame Thai society for the actions of this 'Canadian'. He would be guilty of manslaughter in any civilised country and, in Thailand, his punishment may well be worse. Blaming Thai society for the action of an individual (who I suspect poured his own drinks down his own throat) is out of order when two Thai citizens have been killed and others injured.

I am not interested in debating it, but I also fail to see the connection with religious beliefs and fast vehilcles.

You said my post was "crap" and you don't want to debate it, yet you've proceeded to debate it....

The Canadian was driving his vehicle drunk in Thailand, not Canada. He's getting away with it because they don't have adequate enforcement policies in Thailand. Without them, people will drive around drunk as skunks with no repercusions. His nationality is irrelevant.

It follows that it is the fault of Thailand law enforcement policy to allow people to drive around drunk. As long as they don't make an extreme effort to stamp it out, the blood is on their hands. They regulate what happens on Thailand's roads and it's their job to make the roads safe. You cannot expect people to self regulate their driving practices here just as you can't back in your home land. Life is not like that. It just doesn't work that way. "When the cats away the mice will play" applies no matter where or how educated they are.

I'm from Australia, so I'll use that country as an example with regards to drunk driving. Before Australia started strictly enforcing drunk driving laws, people were quite happily driving around drunk. Over the years from the late 1970's they toughened up to the extent where a person would now have to be an absolute fool to try to drive drunk. How do they enforce it? They block off all main roads leading into a town where people go to drink and breath test every person driving by in a car. Even educated Australians don't self regulate themselves. You need very strict laws with very severe penalties to stop even educated people from driving drunk. In the US you cannot even have an open alcoholic beverage in your vehicle.

That thought lead to my comment that drunk people will never self-regulate themselves. They need the strong arm of the law.

My comment about reliious beliefs: People who believe in reincarnation don't fear death as much as people who believe it is one stike and out. Put a fast vehicle in the hands of a person who doesn't fear death and you have a deadly projectile on the road.

Edited September 11, 2010 by tropo

[canuckamuck]

In the case of a collision when one vehicle is going the wrong way in a roundabout, the evidence would be impossible to miss even for the BIB. I don't think there can be any question as to who's fault it is.

The rate of speed must have been substantial as well considering the damage and injuries.

Although baht bus drivers are highly dangerous, I doubt that the baht bus was the cause of this crash.

[Buchholz]

With all the enabling and classic rationalization going on in this thread in failed attempts to excuse this drunk drivers' actions and blame the resulting catastrophic event on anything and any one but him, it's a shame their attention couldn't be spent on another sub-forum:

[hanno]

Lets hope its not you there trying to hang next time

Oh aren't we all jumping on the righteous indignation bandwagon about the bad FARANG who was drunk and speeding and killed people?

Only a matter of time before people would jump in to defend this idiot. Regardless of nationality, or whether the Thai press gives insufficient coverage to Thais causing accidents, this guy KILLED 2 people. But I guess it was the fault of those 2 people for daring to be in a Baht bus at 4:00 when a foreigner was wanting to have fun with a couple of hookers?

[Scott]

Bucholz: thanks for pointing out the appropriate sub forum; it may, however, scare a lot of people away--sort of like showing a cross to vampires. Driving while drinking is extremely dangerous and it doesn't make a whole lot of difference 'how' much you are drinking. The enforcement of laws is just too lax in Thailand and most people quickly learn you can get by with so many legal infractions and I think this is a big part of the overall problem.

There is just too much happening on the roads in Thailand, people crossing everywhere, motorbikes driving the wrong way, vendors pushing carts, street sweepers, garbage collectors etc. It requires intense concentration and quick reaction time and this is a problem with alcohol in your system.

The only place where alcohol belongs in a vehicle is in the gas tank.

[Buchholz]

Canadian arrested after Thai car crash

Francois Giannini photo taken from Facebook. He is accused in being involved in a car accident in Thailand in which one Thai woman was killed. (Photo from Facebook profile)

According to Thai news outlets, Francois Joseph Giannini was seen entering a roundabout at high speed in a black Nissan. The Nissan crashed into the side of a bus, pushing it off the road and into a tree where it came to rest. The accident occurred between 4 and 4:30 a.m. local time.

According to Thai police quoted in the Pattaya Daily News, three passengers from the bus were ejected from the vehicle during the accident and taken to hospital. Nine people who were not thrown off the bus were taken to hospital. Six of the 12 people were seriously injured, including the driver. Witnesses told the news outlet that 46-year-old Giannini appeared intoxicated as he walked around the scene of the accident.

"We are aware of the detention of a Canadian citizen in Pattaya and we are offering consular assistance," said Canadian Foreign Affairs spokeswoman Lisa Monette. She said she could offer any more details because of the privacy act.

Continues:

http://www.torontosun.com/news/world/2010/09/10/15312756.html

Toronto Sun - 2 hours ago

[tropo]

With all the enabling and classic rationalization going on in this thread in failed attempts to excuse this drunk drivers' actions and blame the resulting catastrophic event on anything and any one but him, it's a shame their attention couldn't be spent on another sub-forum:

Why shouldn't it be discussed here? I think it's a great place to discuss it and it receives much wider attention.

[NanLaew]

Born in Lebanon. They could just as well call him the Lebanese man, but Canadian is easier to say I guess.

Canadian, born in Lebanon, with a name like "Francois Joseph Giannini".

Odd, to say the least.

No, it is NOT ODD. Not odd in the least to people from multicultural societies. Not defending this drunk at all, but leave his ethnicity/nationality OUT of this, please.

Er, yes it is. Thank God I didn't say anything about his sexuality.

Another narrow minded bigot who can't accept that people may legally hold differing nationalities by nature of their parentage as well as their place of birth. You probably don't like immigrants in your homeland very much but you are happy to call Thailand your home eh? That makes you an immigrant too. Do a little wiki reading about Beirut before you start snide insinuations based on YOUR racist views. As for the last post which was a thinly veiled swipe at one of your fellow forum members sexual preferences, that makes you an even nastier piece of work.

The nationality of driver of the black pickup has as much importance as the place of birth of the deceased baht bus driver; absolutely NONE.

Looking at the video AND KNOWING THE LOCATION, it does appear the driver of the black pickup, regardless of race, intoxication, speed, attire, chosen female company (and thus perceived sexuality), post-accident behaviour and discounting the observed driving skills or otherwise of this (RIP) or other songtaew drivers, didn't just fail to give way at the roundabout but went deliberately the WRONG WAY around it and t-boned the baht bus.

Guilty as charged, maybe with mitigating circumstances but highly unlikely.

[tropo]

Another narrow minded bigot who can't accept that people may legally hold differing nationalities by nature of their parentage as well as their place of birth. You probably don't like immigrants in your homeland very much but you are happy to call Thailand your home eh? That makes you an immigrant too. Do a little wiki reading about Beirut before you start snide insinuations based on YOUR racist views. As for the last post which was a thinly veiled swipe at one of your fellow forum members sexual preferences, that makes you an even nastier piece of work.

The nationality of driver of the black pickup has as much importance as the place of birth of the deceased baht bus driver; absolutely NONE.

Looking at the video AND KNOWING THE LOCATION, it does appear the driver of the black pickup, regardless of race, intoxication, speed, attire, chosen female company (and thus perceived sexuality), post-accident behaviour and discounting the observed driving skills or otherwise of this (RIP) or other songtaew drivers, didn't just fail to give way at the roundabout but went deliberately the WRONG WAY around it and t-boned the baht bus.

Guilty as charged, maybe with mitigating circumstances but highly unlikely.

Go get 'em Tiger!

I must admit these "he doesn't look Canadian, Australian etc" remarks are very ignorant and annoying. This could have just as easily been a Thai driver. The drivers nationality has zero relevance, unfortunately it's the very reason this story is getting so much coverage.

[canuckamuck]

I know there are a lot of people in Lebanon that have Canadian passports but continue to live in Lebanon. Driving standards in the middle east are significantly different than those in Canada. My comment was more to the driving culture of this man's place of birth. But I suppose it was also an attempt to distance Canada from this man's inexcusable behavior. No one like to see a moron in the spotlight identified only by a nationality that you share.

[grantbkk]

Drunk man kills two. Who cares where he is from? We know where he is going. He will not be able to leave the country until he pulls together the agreed upon funds for the police and families of the dead and injured but he IS going.

It is hard to believe the haters can gather so much support on one website. To the pompous and indignant that insist that we use "alleged" when putting our thoughts to paper, alleged.

[sillyman99]

Nearly every Farang I know who drinks Alcohol and has a motorcycle or a Car, drinks and drives on a regular basis.

[canuckamuck]

Nearly every Farang I know who drinks Alcohol and has a motorcycle or a Car, drinks and drives on a regular basis.

Says something about your choice of friends more than anything else

[neverdie]

Nearly every Farang I know who drinks Alcohol and has a motorcycle or a Car, drinks and drives on a regular basis.

Says something about your choice of friends more than anything else

Well said. His username sort of indicates the root cause of everything.

[certified]

All the Canadian has to do is to run to Cambodia, transfer to Singapore, fly to the UK and he's free! He'll be met by the UK welcoming committee headed by Lee Aldhouse. Unfortunately he won't become a folk hero because no Americans were knifed up in a drunken rage.:jap:

[NanLaew]

For what it's worth, the passport as shown in the graphic video clip indicates that it was issued (renewed) in Thailand recently. Therefore we can assume that he isn't your typical drinked up tourist but more probably your typical drinked up 'resident' foreigner. One is as bad as the other but it does lend credence to someone's earlier observation that they think they can get way with stuff that would get them banged up back home. That ignorant arrogance is pretty widespread but 'when in Rome' does prevail here.

I was side-swiped by a respectable looking foreigh resident businessman driving home one night (he was in a hurry to get his fish and chips apparently). Anyway, he decided that he could use the 'right-turn only' lane at the traffic lights to get ahead of me; we were both going straight ahead. His first comment when I pointed out his wrong-lane choice at the post-accident, pre-insurance circus was, "But this is Thailand... how long have you been here?" He got upset when I considered that was no excuse for driving like an arsehol_e.

[bdenner]

There's probably only one thing that I can say in his defence. Being Canadian he normally drove on the right hand of the road and went into roundabouts anti clockwise. Being 'allegedly' pissed, speeding and at that time of the day, tied, mistakenly forgot where he was.

OK – no defence really!

[siampolee]

sillyman99.

Nearly every Farang I know who drinks Alcohol and has a motorcycle or a Car, drinks and drives on a regular basis.

Rather a damming indictment and blanket accusation is it not ?

I assure you, although I both drive and drink, I for one, '' never ever mix the two activities together,''

I have only too often seen first hand from a professional point of view the damage drunk driving does,

Thereby one learns a lesson from the suffering and grief of the innocents involved in such alcohol or drug related incidents.

I have no sympathy for any driver who is, or was driving under the influence of either drugs or alcohol and is involved in a road traffic accident. In my view it is at the very least manslaughter, if not in fact actually murder.,

Edited September 11, 2010 by siampolee

[thailandbluegrass]

I have seen this scum-bag around Pattaya. He is a wannabe biker that wears his "colors" 24/7. Always dressed dirty and he has been here for awhile so he is not new to the way things go traffic wise.

He came into one of the "Bike Club Bars" I was drinking in one day and I'm pretty sure he was riding a Honda Wave 125cc and following the Thai Club members like a lost puppy. I can't remember the name of the "club" on his and their vest and its not clear in the video. I remember trying to be friendly by saying hello etc but he would not respond in English so I tried in Thai, same thing, he was just a loser and I think he thought he was "above" me.

I CAN guarrantee that this muppet is NOT the owner of this truck and the future will tell us weather he borrowed it or stole it etc but I dont thinkthis guy has 2 baht to rub together let alone own a 800,000 baht truck.

Please don't think that all "bikers" are bad because most of the bike clubs in Pattaya that have farang members also are probably the biggest fund raising organizations in that city. Most all of the bikers respect the laws (wearing helmuts, NOT driving drunk) etc. You might even see these clubs helping these people who were injured or the families of those who died. RIP.

I will however say that as this investigation continues they will not have a lot of positive things to say about this guy.

Most of the Thai's that are traveling on baht buses at 4:00 am are hard working people on their way to set up in the markets etc and going to work. This is very sad for these people and their families.

In Thailand the "Bike Clubs" are not governed my the hard core clubs like they are back home. Here anyone can simply buy a leather vest, put some patches all over it, make a name up for their club and not be bothered. The clubs like "Mad Dog, Cristian Motorcycle Club, Jesters etc etc are well organized clubs with specific lifestyles like fund raising, Fun organised road trips, sensible community involvement etc and most are business men, respected members of society and well behaved, however like I mentioned before this particular moron has NOTHING to offer society.

This drunk loser should have been ON a baht bus NOT driving into one as he was pisssed and stoned !!!!!!

DO NOT DRINK AND DRIVE !!!!!

[sillyman99]

Nearly every Farang I know who drinks Alcohol and has a motorcycle or a Car, drinks and drives on a regular basis.

Says something about your choice of friends more than anything else

I suppose nearly all Farangs you know who drink alcohol and has a car or a bike Never drinks and drives. All ThaiVisa members obviously, cos they're different.

And of course it goes without saying, NO ThaiVisa members themselves ever drink and drive, never have done, never will do, complete background check and regular blood tests are all part of the registration process on this forum, and total honesty in posts is mandatory.

Yeah right.....

Edited September 11, 2010 by sillyman99

[sillyman99]

sillyman99.

Nearly every Farang I know who drinks Alcohol and has a motorcycle or a Car, drinks and drives on a regular basis.

Rather a damming indictment and blanket accusation is it not ?

Just tell it how it is, it's not speculation, its fact.

It's just that I'm picking up a vibe that members here are totally shocked and amazed that a Farang was drunk and driving, and I'm saying, that in my experience, it's nothing unusual

Sorry guys, and guess what, incredibly, unbelievably and amazingly, some are ThaiVisa members !!!!!

Edited September 11, 2010 by sillyman99

[robblok]

sillyman99.

Nearly every Farang I know who drinks Alcohol and has a motorcycle or a Car, drinks and drives on a regular basis.

Rather a damming indictment and blanket accusation is it not ?

I assure you, although I both drive and drink, I for one, '' never ever mix the two activities together,''

I have only too often seen first hand from a professional point of view the damage drunk driving does,

Thereby one learns a lesson from the suffering and grief of the innocents involved in such alcohol or drug related incidents.

I have no sympathy for any driver who is, or was driving under the influence of either drugs or alcohol and is involved in a road traffic accident. In my view it is at the very least manslaughter, if not in fact actually murder.,

Nice post its crazy to see the guys here justifying themselves for drinking and driving by saying Thais do it too. Two rights don't make a wrong and they should indeed be tough on it.

[Spaniel]

Sure hope the apparent drunken drive had a 1st Class insurance policy "for the victims' sake" as there are going to be some big hospital and compensation bills to pay. And if he did have a 1st Class insurance policy that usually comes with a high bail amount, that bail amount is probably the only thing that going to keep him out of jail until the trial.

I remember reading somewhere that the insurance was invalid if drugs/booze were involved.

[ilyushin]

Very sad indeed.

[canuckamuck]

I suppose nearly all Farangs you know who drink alcohol and who has a car or a bike Never drinks and drives. All ThaiVisa members obviously, cos they're different.

And of course it goes without saying, NO ThaiVisa members themselves ever drink and drive, never have done, never will do, complete background check and regular blood tests are all part of the registration process on this forum, and total honesty in posts is mandatory.

Yeah right.....

I'll bet not even all of your friends drink and drive, you just believe they do to justify your own negligent choices.

Maybe you oughta take a little alcohol holiday and get some perspective.

[tropo]

Nice post its crazy to see the guys here justifying themselves for drinking and driving by saying Thais do it too. Two rights don't make a wrong and they should indeed be tough on it.

You totally missed the point. No one is justifying drink driving. They're just bringing it to your attention that this accident is gaining more than the usual amount of attention (too much) because the driver is a Canadian when in actual fact his nationality shouldn't have anything to do with it. I doubt we'd see more than a page of replies if he was Thai. Plenty of devistating accidents have been reported on this forum with little comment.

[Spaniel]

I have zero sympathy for the Canadian National originally born in Beirut, and I hope he goes to a Thai jail for a long time. But, there are a few discrepancies in the report. How can anyone drive through a round about at a high rate of speed? By their very design a round-about slows a vehicle. However, understand that North Americans drive on the opposite side of the road to Thailand, and in a foggy state of mind (being impaired etc) a North American driver might likely turn the wrong way into a round-about.

There is NO excuse for driving impaired after consuming too much alcohol, but considering what I see daily while driving on Thai roads it does not surprise me. It appears that at least a third of all Thai drivers are impaired to some degree or the other. Driving laws and regulations in Thailand only seem to be a general suggestion on how people are SUPPOSED to act. There is little or no enforcement except for the cursory, and very occasional, spot checks to make an appearance of police doing their job.

"How can anyone drive through a round about at a high rate of speed". I assume you are not familiar with this paticular round about. The Canadian was coming down Naklua road heading toward the round about. When he got to the round about he made a immediate right turn which would take him to the begining of Beach Road and not actually go through the round about. At that point he hit the bhat bus. So it appears he never really entered the round about but tried to take an illegal shortcut around it. It's a big intersection so he could have been going pretty fast at that point.

[Rimmer]

Argumentative posts removed from view, stay on topic please