Why Thailand Fought On The Japanese Side During Ww Ii

[mark45y]

1. The Brits and French both took land from Thailand during the previous hundred years.

2. Thailand wanted the opium crop grown in Burma and the Japanese agreed to this.

3. There was a wave of Asian nationalism at the time and a backlash to French and British colonialism.

4. The Brits and Americans were unwilling to provide Thailand with security and weapons to resist the Japanese.

5. Thailand after fighting to a stalemate with the French in the Franco Thai war of 1940 was accorded a beneficial settlement to the conflict that was negotiated by the Japanese.

The Japanese invaded Thailand for a few hours but a secret treaty had already been signed by the PM. Within a couple of weeks the Thai nation declared war on The Allies and the Japanese were using bases all over Thailand to attack Allied positions in Asia.

One of the first American actions in the war in Thailand was the attack of the Chiang Mai airfield in 1942 only a couple of months after the start of the war.

Detailed records exist about the railroad building in Thailand during the war and numerous references are made to Thai engineers doing the survey work.

Thai pilots flying American fighter planes also shot down American bombers during the war.

The Thai resistance to the Japanese during the war was mostly from outside Thailand both in the US and England.

Although Thai freedom fighters were trained and ready to move they never really got into the action because the war ended.

The Thai PM was tried but never convicted for war crimes and although deposed at the end of the war later came back to Thailand to be PM again in 1948.

The reason Thailand was not held to the same punitive war reparations as Japan was mostly due to an American woman named Betty McKenzie. Google it if you are interested.

Although Japanese troops did not occupy (allies don’t occupy) Thailand, British and Indian troops did for one year after the end of the war in 1946.

[wintermute]

You're missing one point..the supreme moral authority in Thailand which is the royal family and its Queen and princes (the current king was studying in switzerland and the elder prince was in England) were not present at the time and actively supported resistance against Japanese occupation.

Edited September 14, 2010 by wintermute

[mark45y]

You're missing one point..the supreme moral authority in Thailand which is the royal family and its Queen and princes (the current king was studying in switzerland and the elder prince was in England) were not present at the time and actively supported resistance against Japanese occupation.

No I am not. You are missing the point of the 1932 coup. The supreme moral authority was drastically changed when Thailand became a constitutional monarchy as a result of that coup. Thailand was not the same kind of place then as now. I don't think I should dwell on it but a study of the history of that period would not find the same elements of moral authority as exist today. What you are talking about happened in the UK and the UK was the country that wanted the punitive reparations paid by Thailand. They were not only because of the intercession of the US.

[geriatrickid]

This is a taboo subject in Thailand. One of the reasons Germany has evolved as a nation and has been able to become a modern advanced state is because it undertook the painful self examination. It is why Germany is able to claim some moral ground today. Many western nations have also taken a hard look at their behaviour and accepted an open discussion, with the USA being one of those nations where some very tough questions have been asked and past actions reviewed. The UK has dealt with some of the issues as well. Italy dealt with the issue and the people that were implicated often met unpleasant deaths outside the judicial system. Not the best way to deal with it, but the Italians get things done in one way or another. Thailand isn't the only country that has failed to look at its past because Sweden which supplied the steel and ball bearings to the NAzis has long avoided the issue. The Swiss were dragged kicking and screaming to the responsibility table some years ago. A country that fails to confront its past is doomed to repeat the errors. Spain serves as an example. Until Spain dealt with the Franco era, it was unable to transform itself back into an advanced modern nation. Even little Portugal came to grips with its military dictatorship and is a much better nation for it. Thailand as a matter of national policy avoids the subject and is in a state of denial. Ask a Thai about this period of history and you will get a blank stare.

[tweezer]

Mark45y, that's a very interesting synopsis. This topic and the points you describe are an intriguing story. Have you considered writing a book or article that expands on and explains those points? You should! I'll bet there are some fascinating stories in there. I would definitely read it.

Thanks!

T

[GuestHouse]

Why Thailand Fought On the Japanese (Axis) Side During WWII?

Simply put - Because they thought that the Japanese (Axis Powers) were going to win.

[sillyman99]

Why Thailand Fought On the Japanese (Axis) Side During WWII?

Simply put - Because they thought that the Japanese (Axis Powers) were going to win.

Ummm NO,

They had no choice.

You think they were gonna fight the Japanese, how could they ?

What would you have done to ensure hundreds of thousands of your people were not slaughtered, and your cities bombed ?

Cos we all know how benevolent the Japanese were against any occupied natives.

No doubt Guesthouse could have turned the war around if only he had been there.

[mark45y]

Mark45y, that's a very interesting synopsis. This topic and the points you describe are an intriguing story. Have you considered writing a book or article that expands on and explains those points? You should! I'll bet there are some fascinating stories in there. I would definitely read it.

Thanks!

T

It is an interesting period in history when Thailand changed from an absolute monarchy into a constitutional monarchy and the changes that followed. Then came the WW II. There are a lot of things written about the period but most are slanted or boring. The railroad history is one such large tome that is interesting to RR buffs but the history has to be pulled out. There were two railroads built in Thailand during WW II. The second one gets little mention but there is more written about it.

There is even a Thai guy who has a museum dedicated to the Japanese troops stationed in the country during the war. A couple of Japanese married and stayed but only a couple. Considering all the brides Americans took from Germany and Japan after the war that is to me surprising.

Even though the Japanese and Thais were allies they didn’t get along that well. Constant feuding about bill payments among other things.

The Thai troops that invaded Burma is also an interesting bit of history as they were not treated well by the Thai military.

The Thai tanks were powered by Ford engines and they had an odd collection of aircraft, some American and French and some Japanese.

And of course it is difficult to have a discussion and avoid the issues that have to be avoided.

The numbers are all messed up too. Look up Thai causalities during WW II. They can’t be that low. UK 449,800, US 418,500, Australia 40,500, Singapore 50,000, Thailand 5,900, Burma 272,000, French Indo China 1,500,000, Philippines 1,057,000.

[sillyman99]

Jesus H Christ,

Google Search and Wikipedia must have been inundated with searches today regarding Thailands involvement during WW2

Now everyones an expert.

[moe666]

I would also think the old Thai way of taking care of themselves comes into play as well. We will and have been invaded by the Japanese lets make this as painless as possible and join them.

Even though they were alies many Thais died at the hands of the Japanese building the death railroad.

[mark45y]

Why Thailand Fought On the Japanese (Axis) Side During WWII?

Simply put - Because they thought that the Japanese (Axis Powers) were going to win.

Ummm NO,

They had no choice.

You think they were gonna fight the Japanese, how could they ?

What would you have done to ensure hundreds of thousands of your people were not slaughtered, and your cities bombed ?

Cos we all know how benevolent the Japanese were against any occupied natives.

No doubt Guesthouse could have turned the war around if only he had been there.

Japan only had one voluntary ally during the war, Thailand.

[mark45y]

I would also think the old Thai way of taking care of themselves comes into play as well. We will and have been invaded by the Japanese lets make this as painless as possible and join them.

Even though they were alies many Thais died at the hands of the Japanese building the death railroad.

I can’t find any information about that. Where did you get the information? All I get is Asians dead. Nothing about Thais? Maybe I have not looked in the right place.

[sillyman99]

I would also think the old Thai way of taking care of themselves comes into play as well. We will and have been invaded by the Japanese lets make this as painless as possible and join them.

Even though they were alies many Thais died at the hands of the Japanese building the death railroad.

This is true, in fact, probably more Thais died than Allied POW's, yet they are never mentioned.

You know how many Indian Soldiers died during world war 1, fighting for the British Empire, their occupying force ?

[mca]

The question posed by this topic has one simple answer. The Japanese had snazzier uniforms. You know how the Thais love their uniforms. High school principal dressed up like a Japanese Admiral or security guard at a local apartment block with parachute wings type stuff.

[sillyman99]

Japan only had one voluntary ally during the war, Thailand.

So you would have stood your ground and had your people slaughtered ?

[sillyman99]

The question posed by this topic has one simple answer. The Japanese had snazzier uniforms. You know how the Thais love their uniforms. High school principal dressed up like a Japanese Admiral or security guard at a local apartment block with parachute wings type stuff.

MCA..................

I'm surprised at you .

[mark45y]

I would also think the old Thai way of taking care of themselves comes into play as well. We will and have been invaded by the Japanese lets make this as painless as possible and join them.

Even though they were alies many Thais died at the hands of the Japanese building the death railroad.

This is true, in fact, probably more Thais died than Allied POW's, yet they are never mentioned.

You know how many Indian Soldiers died during world war 1, fighting for the British Empire, their occupying force ?

All the figures I can find mention 4 to 5 thousand Thais killed during WW II that includes soldiers and civilians. Where do you find numbers that are higher? The Indian comment is off topic.

[sillyman99]

http://www.thereformedbuddhist.com/2010/08/seri-thai-thailands-world-war-2.html

[Siripon]

i wonder if anyone knows about the story of the Thai dental students in WW2.

They had gone to the Philippines to learn dentistry when they were captured by the Americans who imprisoned them on the grounds that Thailand had joined the Japanese in the war.

After negotiations with the Thai authorities who pointed out the students had no part in the war, they were released and put on a merchant ship laden with soya beans traveling to Thailand.

The merchant ship proceeded very slowly due to the heavy weight of the cargo, consequently the students dumped the soya beans overboard to increase speed.

This action is believed to have saved their lives, for the boat was subsequently bombed, but the coordinates had been wrongly calculated by the aircraft bomber as the boat had moved faster than anticipated due to the shedding of its load.

The Filipino captain felt it was too dangerous to continue and headed for a nearby island, the Thai students eventually made it back to Thailand a few months later.

The group of dentistry students eventually graduated in Thailand and became known as the เรือเเตก contingent, meeting up every year for reunions.

[sillyman99]

I would also think the old Thai way of taking care of themselves comes into play as well. We will and have been invaded by the Japanese lets make this as painless as possible and join them.

Even though they were alies many Thais died at the hands of the Japanese building the death railroad.

This is true, in fact, probably more Thais died than Allied POW's, yet they are never mentioned.

You know how many Indian Soldiers died during world war 1, fighting for the British Empire, their occupying force ?

All the figures I can find mention 4 to 5 thousand Thais killed during WW II that includes soldiers and civilians. Where do you find numbers that are higher? The Indian comment is off topic.

I can't find figures higher, then again, I never looked.,

[bifftastic]

The Japanese also promoted the idea of a 'pan-asian brotherhood' with themselves controlling it of course. Similar in propaganda style to that of the 3rd Reich. The idea that western powers should not exploit asian countries would, understandably, be quite popular. It is easy, with the benefit of hindsight, to be critical. However, with what was then, the most powerful and effective military force in the region parked outside your country and the British in India/Burma/Singapore etc. A choice had to be made. The Imperial Japanese Army had defeated all in its path and was going to use Thailand as a base for further action one way or another. The Allies weren't offering any assistance or threatening invasion.

[mark45y]

http://www.thereformedbuddhist.com/2010/08/seri-thai-thailands-world-war-2.html

Like I said, All the figures I can find mention 4 to 5 thousand Thais killed during WW II that includes soldiers and civilians. Where do you find numbers that are higher?

Your article mentions no actual numbers of causalities. Apparently no one knows.

Also you might want to get confirmation about the Seri Thai activities. I found it hard to match the article you mentioned with what I have read. Not saying it isn’t true just not the same as what I have read before.

[MB1]

I would also think the old Thai way of taking care of themselves comes into play as well. We will and have been invaded by the Japanese lets make this as painless as possible and join them.

Even though they were alies many Thais died at the hands of the Japanese building the death railroad.

This is true, in fact, probably more Thais died than Allied POW's, yet they are never mentioned.

You know how many Indian Soldiers died during world war 1, fighting for the British Empire, their occupying force ?

All the figures I can find mention 4 to 5 thousand Thais killed during WW II that includes soldiers and civilians. Where do you find numbers that are higher? The Indian comment is off topic.

Will try to help you Marky, Thai History interests and intrigues me..

Quoted below from http://wapedia.mobi/en/World_War_II_casualties?t=4.

"Military deaths consists of 143 officers, 474 non-commissioned officers, 4942 other ranks, and 88 field policemen. Royal Thai Armed Forces Education Department Werner Gruhl believes that Thailand suffered "to a lesser extent" than other nations but did not provide exact figures for estimated losses."

Also another article that may be of interest to some if you want to read it, link below...

http://wapedia.mobi/en/Japanese_Invasion_of_Thailand

Ref Markys comment

4. The Brits and Americans were unwilling to provide Thailand with security and weapons to resist the Japanese.

Part 1 the "background" of the second link I gave says quoted below...

"Neither country could give them, although British Prime Minister Winston Churchill was in favour of giving a public warning to Japan that an invasion of the southeast Asian kingdom would result in a declaration of war by the two countries."

Edited September 14, 2010 by MB1

[DP25]

Look up Thai causalities during WW II. They can’t be that low.

They are. That's why it isn't a huge deal here like every where else in Asia

[Lancelot]

This is a taboo subject in Thailand. One of the reasons Germany has evolved as a nation and has been able to become a modern advanced state is because it undertook the painful self examination. It is why Germany is able to claim some moral ground today. Many western nations have also taken a hard look at their behaviour and accepted an open discussion, with the USA being one of those nations where some very tough questions have been asked and past actions reviewed. The UK has dealt with some of the issues as well. Italy dealt with the issue and the people that were implicated often met unpleasant deaths outside the judicial system. Not the best way to deal with it, but the Italians get things done in one way or another. Thailand isn't the only country that has failed to look at its past because Sweden which supplied the steel and ball bearings to the NAzis has long avoided the issue. The Swiss were dragged kicking and screaming to the responsibility table some years ago. A country that fails to confront its past is doomed to repeat the errors. Spain serves as an example. Until Spain dealt with the Franco era, it was unable to transform itself back into an advanced modern nation. Even little Portugal came to grips with its military dictatorship and is a much better nation for it. Thailand as a matter of national policy avoids the subject and is in a state of denial. Ask a Thai about this period of history and you will get a blank stare.

I don't think GK loves Thailand

[sillyman99]

http://www.thereform...orld-war-2.html

Where do you find numbers that are higher?

I don't find figures that are higher, I already stated that !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WAFC!!!!!!!!!!

Edited September 14, 2010 by sillyman99

[bifftastic]

Also another article that may be of interest to some if you want to read it, link below...

http://wapedia.mobi/...ion_of_Thailand

Thanks for that

[Loz]

Er... you do know that Thailand DID fight against JApan in WW2.

Take a trip to Ao Manao, Prachurup kirikan. There is a military museum on the beach there where the story of 100 soldiers holding of the japanese invasion is told. Its actually a quaint little place and on seeing the kids we took there learn a little about ww2 I confirm they knew next to EFF all before going. But if you look into this story and check the dates I think you might find it interesting.

battle of prachurb kirikan info: click here

Edited September 14, 2010 by Loz

[tweezer]

Also another article that may be of interest to some if you want to read it, link below...

http://wapedia.mobi/...ion_of_Thailand

Thanks for that

Likewise, thank you. This link is a very interesting read.

[sillyman99]

Jesus H Christ.................. Why don't we all do a google search and pat each other on the back !!!!!!!!!!

The fact is that NOW Thailand is kicking UK's ass in economic terms, and they never sent one freekin' soldier overseas !!!!!!!

You know that the Asian countries are actually laughing at the amount of money we Western Superpowers spend ( Waste ), it's something of a joke. I mean really, what is the point ?

The Chinese will only ever allow the west to take what they want them to take, no more.

In a conventional war, the Chinese can lose 100,000 men per week and not bat an eyelid, the American public would demand the end of a war if the US lost 100 men per week.