Living In London Afer Living In Bangkok

[Thakkar]

w11Guy, Well l have sat back and read your posts. You talk complete <deleted>. I visualize that you are 21 and know it all but understand nothing. From an oldy that has watched my country bend over backwards for foreigners l am quite pissed off. Change, perhaps yes but change for it's natives, which is not happening. My mum and dad passed away last year, both fuming at the way the country has gone when THEY had to fight to keep England, England. I will not argue with you here cos it's pointless but people like you make many angry.

I think Britain is a wonderful country that punches above its weight, producing great art, music, technology and literature. Immigrants and their offspring have contributed their fair share in all these areas.

The Britain your late parents lamented was a stagnating, colonialist Britain still reeking of state-sanctioned opium smuggling and gunboat diplomacy, a Britain that virtually stood alone in tacit support of an apartheid regime in South Africa. It was a Britain that was polluted, reviled and culturally moribund.

Today's Britain has embraced liberalism, cleaned up it's environment, is more sensitive to human rights and has a vibrant culture.

It is strange then for your ilk to be nostalgic for a Britain less worthy of pride and so dismissive of a Britain far more deserving of respect.

[MSingh]

I guess it all depends where " Hoem " actually is..

For me, it's East London & i'd rather eat sh*t 3 times a day than return there & i simply won't subject myself or my Daughter to that ever..

We only live once after all & it took me 16 Years on the Planet to realise that " Home " is NOT the way forward..

[taninthai]

w11Guy, Well l have sat back and read your posts. You talk complete <deleted>. I visualize that you are 21 and know it all but understand nothing. From an oldy that has watched my country bend over backwards for foreigners l am quite pissed off. Change, perhaps yes but change for it's natives, which is not happening. My mum and dad passed away last year, both fuming at the way the country has gone when THEY had to fight to keep England, England. I will not argue with you here cos it's pointless but people like you make many angry.

I think Britain is a wonderful country that punches above its weight, producing great art, music, technology and literature. Immigrants and their offspring have contributed their fair share in all these areas.

The Britain your late parents lamented was a stagnating, colonialist Britain still reeking of state-sanctioned opium smuggling and gunboat diplomacy, a Britain that virtually stood alone in tacit support of an apartheid regime in South Africa. It was a Britain that was polluted, reviled and culturally moribund.

Today's Britain has embraced liberalism, cleaned up it's environment, is more sensitive to human rights and has a vibrant culture.

It is strange then for your ilk to be nostalgic for a Britain less worthy of pride and so dismissive of a Britain far more deserving of respect.

the only plus side i can see to the amount of immigrants in uk is that it has given me some one to rent my flat to while i live it up in los......

i dont have a problem with foreigners going to live in uk ,however i do have a problem when there is excessive amounts of people coming to the country and takin jobs ,houses and work from people born and bread there......

if the uk had the same visa rules and work permit rules as los uk may be a better place than what it is today..............

[sonicdragon]

I've been living abroad, some of the time in Thailand, for 13 years. For the first 8 years or so I often had the thought that I would never move back. But when we decided to have kids we immediately thought about their future and seriously considered it. We went for two long (3-4 month) visits after the kids were born partly in order to help decide whether we could/should do it. They will be 4 years old soon and we are moving back next month. I can vividly remember my visits back home, before we had kids, seeing every negative thing there was and constantly making comparisons with the place I was living (Hong Kong, Thailand, Japan, and a little time in France and South Africa). But with a different focus, it's amazing how one's viewpoint changes. For example (in no particular order)

1. Food. I remember thinking once that the food in Thailand was almost a good enough reason in itself for living here, and while I still think it's fantastic, and certainly one of my favorite cuisines, in general it's not very healthy. Of course it's not too hard to eat healthily in Thailand, but I think it's much easier in the UK.

2. I used to think the UK climate was a good enough reason for not living there, but now I'm fairly nonchalant about it. Sure the wet days in the winter are not nice, but the crisp dry days are great and it's nice to have contrasting seasons. On the other hand, tropical climates can be a bit oppressive at times, if you are an outdoor person, which I am. I like to go hiking and camping, and with the Yorkshire Dales and Moors on my doorstep it's great all year round, provided you have the right equipment and are well prepared.

3. Cost of living. This doesn't bother me, having lived in Hong Kong, Tokyo and Paris, and when you factor in educational costs, health insurance etc, the day-to-day costs start to become irrelevent.

4. Environment. I am now somewhat sick of seeing the way many Thais treat their neighbourhood - the "out of sight, out of mind" mentality - I find the UK much cleaner and less polluted, and therefore safer.

5. Children's education. We were very much in two minds about this - there are good international schools in Asia, but there are more options for a private education in the UK, and the UK still has some of the best universities in the world.

6. Culture. This is both one of the biggest drawbacks and advantges of moving back - it's bad in that our kids will lose their Thainess to a large extent, but I think the cosmopilitan UK culture makes up for it. Our kids will get a rounded exposure to a rich history, art, music, literature etc in the UK, that they could not easily get here.

7. Live sports. I spent a lot of time in my childood and youth at football, cricket and rugby matches and I intend to give my kids the same experiences. This is difficult in Thailand to say the least. It's just not the same on TV.

8. Sports participation. Again, I think the UK wins hands down.

I could go on and on...

[Thakkar]

w11Guy, Well l have sat back and read your posts. You talk complete <deleted>. I visualize that you are 21 and know it all but understand nothing. From an oldy that has watched my country bend over backwards for foreigners l am quite pissed off. Change, perhaps yes but change for it's natives, which is not happening. My mum and dad passed away last year, both fuming at the way the country has gone when THEY had to fight to keep England, England. I will not argue with you here cos it's pointless but people like you make many angry.

I think Britain is a wonderful country that punches above its weight, producing great art, music, technology and literature. Immigrants and their offspring have contributed their fair share in all these areas.

The Britain your late parents lamented was a stagnating, colonialist Britain still reeking of state-sanctioned opium smuggling and gunboat diplomacy, a Britain that virtually stood alone in tacit support of an apartheid regime in South Africa. It was a Britain that was polluted, reviled and culturally moribund.

Today's Britain has embraced liberalism, cleaned up it's environment, is more sensitive to human rights and has a vibrant culture.

It is strange then for your ilk to be nostalgic for a Britain less worthy of pride and so dismissive of a Britain far more deserving of respect.

So all your pluses and the countries turn around is due to immigration is it . Most of our non communist European neighbours have moved on in the same way as the UK, it's called progress. Even OZ, NZ etc have the same standards as us Europeans.

To say that we would be stuck in the 40's if it wasn't for immigrants is ridiculous.

Now you will say but all these countries have immigrants, your right but now it's only OZ that has the balls to do something about the spongers instead of these people trying to improve their own country.

Sigh.

I assume your first language is English. If so, you have deliberately misconstrued my post by focusing on one word within it—immigrant—so that you can luxuriate in a spiteful rant against The Bad Brown People.

I hope you feel better. But know that immigrants aren't the problem. Any number of empirical studies should have put that to rest. Study up and stop relying on anecdotal evidence seen through bigoted eyes. In any case, that isn't the topic of this thread, nor the focus of my post.

The point I was making was against your contention that Britain is a worse place today than it was before. I only mentioned immigrants because I detected a subtext (subsequently proven correct by your rant) in your post that immigrants were a cause of the perceived worsening. Putting aside the argument whether immigrants have contributed or scrounged, the fact remains that Britain is a better country today than it was before.

The majority of Britons see that, and are benefiting, and are getting on with their lives. A vociferous minority hanker after imagined past glories, and do so to their own detriment, because they will end up leaving this plane of existence with a self-brewed bitter taste in their mouths.

[Thakkar]

Again with the immigration. That isn't the topic.

But since you bring it up( and bring it up and bring it up), you are actually making my case for me: That Britain is a good place to be. That is why so many want to go there, to your consternation.

[livinthailandos]

Many interesting postings and valid points on this issue. I'm from the U.S. and I can say at least this

1. Being in thailand in a way has been good since I've have a job now for almost 3 years and ongoing where as many of my friends and family back home have found its hard to near impossible to get a job now. Many haven't found work ranging from 3 months - 1 year now and on top of that it looks like pre recession job levels may not come back for another 3 years, so until then I'll take my chances here

2. Sometimes I miss a few things or a few convenience thats thailand seems to lack for me though like,

shopping for clothes & shoes, reliable internet, favorite restaurants on foods, being able to visit with family or friends,

I could go visit home I suppose but after not being back to the US for 2 1/2 years now I really don't feel to much inclined to even visit though. That and I really hate flying back home especially since from bangkok to my home state it takes at least 23 hours to get back at least 21 hours of flying and 2 hours lay over at another airport before boarding next plane. I feel jealous of most foreigners whose home countries are the UK, Australia at least when you decide to fly home it doesn't take you nearly as long as me to get back.

anyways to each person on this topic i suppose its a matter of the feeling you have when here or back home.

[Thakkar]

Again with the immigration. That isn't the topic.

But since you bring it up( and bring it up and bring it up), you are actually making my case for me: That Britain is a good place to be. That is why so many want to go there, to your consternation.

At last. Thank you.

[GuestHouse]

w11Guy, Well l have sat back and read your posts. You talk complete <deleted>. I visualize that you are 21 and know it all but understand nothing. From an oldy that has watched my country bend over backwards for foreigners l am quite pissed off. Change, perhaps yes but change for it's natives, which is not happening. My mum and dad passed away last year, both fuming at the way the country has gone when THEY had to fight to keep England, England. I will not argue with you here cos it's pointless but people like you make many angry.

You are of course aware, as I am sure that you parents were aware that the UK Armed forces included men and women from the commonwealth nations, the following (modern nation names given) of which contributed men and materiel to the UK war effort:

Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Bangladesh, Barbados, Bahrain, Belize, Botswana, Brunei, Burma, Bhutan, Cameroon, Canada, Cyprus, Dominica, Egypt, Ethiopia, Gambia,Ghana, Grenada, Guyana, Fiji, Hong Kong, India, Israel, Jamaica, Jordan, Kenya, Kiribati, Kuwait, Lesotho,Libya, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Malta, Mauritius, Namibia, Nauru,New Zealand, Nepal, Nigeria, Oman, Pakistan, Palestine, Papua New Guinea, Qatar, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Samoa, Seychelles,Sierra Leone, Singapore, Solomon Islands, Somaliland, South Africa, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Swaziland, Tanzania, Tonga, Trinidad and Tobago, Tuvalu, Uganda, Vanuatu, Yemen, Zambia, Zimbabwe

And in your own rantings against Eastern Europeans coming to the UK, you are perhaps forgetting the many Polish citizens who fought and died in the British Armed forces.

Without the contribution and sacrifice of these peoples you'd more than likely have been raised in a defeated province of the Greater German Empire. Though I accept that might have suited you nicely.

[travelmann]

Its an interesting topic for me as I spend 2-3 months in Thailand every 4-5 months and i find being in either country for that amount of time I get tired of both?????/ In Thailand I long for dry air and not feeling sticky, in the UK I long for not being frozen and the lack of some law enforcement ie speeding and speed cameras, Big Brother watching over me etc.

Dont know where Ill end up?

[kjhbigv]

I've been living abroad, some of the time in Thailand, for 13 years. For the first 8 years or so I often had the thought that I would never move back. But when we decided to have kids we immediately thought about their future and seriously considered it. We went for two long (3-4 month) visits after the kids were born partly in order to help decide whether we could/should do it. They will be 4 years old soon and we are moving back next month. I can vividly remember my visits back home, before we had kids, seeing every negative thing there was and constantly making comparisons with the place I was living (Hong Kong, Thailand, Japan, and a little time in France and South Africa). But with a different focus, it's amazing how one's viewpoint changes. For example (in no particular order)

1. Food. I remember thinking once that the food in Thailand was almost a good enough reason in itself for living here, and while I still think it's fantastic, and certainly one of my favorite cuisines, in general it's not very healthy. Of course it's not too hard to eat healthily in Thailand, but I think it's much easier in the UK.

2. I used to think the UK climate was a good enough reason for not living there, but now I'm fairly nonchalant about it. Sure the wet days in the winter are not nice, but the crisp dry days are great and it's nice to have contrasting seasons. On the other hand, tropical climates can be a bit oppressive at times, if you are an outdoor person, which I am. I like to go hiking and camping, and with the Yorkshire Dales and Moors on my doorstep it's great all year round, provided you have the right equipment and are well prepared.

3. Cost of living. This doesn't bother me, having lived in Hong Kong, Tokyo and Paris, and when you factor in educational costs, health insurance etc, the day-to-day costs start to become irrelevent.

4. Environment. I am now somewhat sick of seeing the way many Thais treat their neighbourhood - the "out of sight, out of mind" mentality - I find the UK much cleaner and less polluted, and therefore safer.

5. Children's education. We were very much in two minds about this - there are good international schools in Asia, but there are more options for a private education in the UK, and the UK still has some of the best universities in the world.

6. Culture. This is both one of the biggest drawbacks and advantges of moving back - it's bad in that our kids will lose their Thainess to a large extent, but I think the cosmopilitan UK culture makes up for it. Our kids will get a rounded exposure to a rich history, art, music, literature etc in the UK, that they could not easily get here.

7. Live sports. I spent a lot of time in my childood and youth at football, cricket and rugby matches and I intend to give my kids the same experiences. This is difficult in Thailand to say the least. It's just not the same on TV.

8. Sports participation. Again, I think the UK wins hands down.

I could go on and on...

Very good post, and tend to agree....both countries ARE different and BOTH have things to offer (depends what you are after!)...I spend 95% of my time in Thailand BUT there are things to be missed in the UK. The OP lives in London, I lived on Isle of Dogs for 5 years and thoroughly enjoyed the 'London' scene.....BUT to enjoy that scene generally you need a certain amount of money....went back for 2 weeks recently and buying a round of drinks for a few friends was 30 quid in good old London.

The main disadvantage about the UK is housing costs......food can be found at similar prices to Thailand....what with special offers and the such at the big supermarkets......BUT housing....reckon you need in the South East a minimum of GBP1000.00 per month for rent/mortgage and council tax, in London, higher....unless you want to live in a 'room'.

As for 'interest rates being low'.....correct they are, BUT being an -ex-mortgage broker (apologies) getting finance now and for the forseeable future will be nigh on impossible unless you have a 25% deposit...so average house price in South East around GBP180k.....deposit required is GBP45K!

It is swings and roundabouts....yes, when I go back I hear people banging on about their latest car (just like I did) and yes when I go back it frustrates me.....BUT is Thailand really any different? If the masses had the opportunity? Are they really that different? Latest mobile phones etc etc...Thai's love it!

To the OP...hang in there mate....think about what you really want...while you are in the UK make it count...there are enough immigrants making the most of it...so get a slice of it! Easy to say, I know!

Whatever you decide....make sure the decision is YOUR decision and make the most of it...remember we ALL live for a defined length of time, so doesn't really matter whether you are Bill Gates or some Chav....all gonna end in the same place.....and remember 'money helps' but hiw many people who have it 'all' are happy...eg. George Michael (banged up), Michael Jackson (brown bread) etc etc.....if thats what money brings you?!

Ok banging on....and probably get slagged off as everyone does on TV, but hey......<deleted>!

[elliss]

in thailand i have different life experiences on a daily basis .

when i am in uk , i am counting every day till i return home .

social life in the uk , i am not interested .

ex mates , are still living the boring life , which i chose not to have .

also those smirky remarks about thailands sex culture .

as a loud mouth told me , he has not had sex for 6 mounths .

my reply , i dont blame you mate , i have seen your misses. :jap:

[sonicdragon]

Re: Housing costs

I have lived in countries where housing costs have been at times higher than in London - eg Tokyo and Hong Kong. One of the defining characteristics of Japanese and HK people is that they live at home with their families, very often even after getting married, and save until they have enough to get their own place. This often takes many many years. I'm not saying that UK people should do the same, but it's not so long ago (~25 years ?) that it was impossible to get a mortgage in the UK without putting down a sizable deposit. Frankly, I think that is a good thing, and the UK banks seem to be returning (though only temporarily I expect) to this modus operandi. The de-regulation that took place in the mortgage industry, and finance industry in general, in the 80's, is a large part of the reason why housing costs are high in the UK now.

[Thakkar]

w11Guy, Well l have sat back and read your posts. You talk complete <deleted>. I visualize that you are 21 and know it all but understand nothing. From an oldy that has watched my country bend over backwards for foreigners l am quite pissed off. Change, perhaps yes but change for it's natives, which is not happening. My mum and dad passed away last year, both fuming at the way the country has gone when THEY had to fight to keep England, England. I will not argue with you here cos it's pointless but people like you make many angry.

You are of course aware, as I am sure that you parents were aware that the UK Armed forces included men and women from the commonwealth nations, the following (modern nation names given) of which contributed men and materiel to the UK war effort:

Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Bangladesh, Barbados, Bahrain, Belize, Botswana, Brunei, Burma, Bhutan, Cameroon, Canada, Cyprus, Dominica, Egypt, Ethiopia, Gambia,Ghana, Grenada, Guyana, Fiji, Hong Kong, India, Israel, Jamaica, Jordan, Kenya, Kiribati, Kuwait, Lesotho,Libya, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Malta, Mauritius, Namibia, Nauru,New Zealand, Nepal, Nigeria, Oman, Pakistan, Palestine, Papua New Guinea, Qatar, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Samoa, Seychelles,Sierra Leone, Singapore, Solomon Islands, Somaliland, South Africa, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Swaziland, Tanzania, Tonga, Trinidad and Tobago, Tuvalu, Uganda, Vanuatu, Yemen, Zambia, Zimbabwe

And in your own rantings against Eastern Europeans coming to the UK, you are perhaps forgetting the many Polish citizens who fought and died in the British Armed forces.

Without the contribution and sacrifice of these peoples you'd more than likely have been raised in a defeated province of the Greater German Empire. Though I accept that might have suited you nicely.

Rubbish argument.

You forget, England wanted to rule the world and it nearly did so your daft thoughts are the world can now come and live in this tiny island.

If you recall it was the UK going to the aid of Poland, not in the Common Wealth, that started it all off. Common Wealth countries fought for the crown, then they went home, HOME, back to their own land, same as Aussies, Canadians, whoever, back home. Our boys are fighting foreign wars and then they go home. Which on this subject has nothing to do with my comment on the spongers cramming into UK instead of improving their own land for their own people.

Why are thousands of E.Europeans camping on the shores of France, like Hitler did, trying to figuring out a way to get across that channel. Why don't they stay in France or any other country they have been in, why. Cos UK is an easy touch, handouts, housing, free health care, you name it. None of these people head for the free Russia do they, no.

UK government has admitted it has probably 500,000 illegal immigrants in UK in the last couple of years. These are illegal, but working, taking work away from the natives cos they work for peanuts living 10 to a room somewhere and are paying nothing back in taxes. You and l will obviously always differ on this subject, but my eyes are open.

Open, but alas, blinkered.

[WilliamCave]

On my return to the camps in northern canada for three to 4 months at a time the first 4 weeks seem ok then I want out

and come back to thailand..when they fly me out to the city in Edmonton cant stand being there.so lots of times i just stay in the camp on my days off,

and usually what happens to me is that when i am working there in the camps one day i wake up and just say to my self i am going home to thailamd and quit that fast, sometimes with no notice. Also one time when i was finished me shift after supper i went back to my room and for what ever reason a thought came to me pack up and head back to thailand and was packed in 30 min and on my way out of the camp. and back in bkk in 4 days.

that is how i handle western culture now so i understand u very much

[tigerfish]

w11Guy, Well l have sat back and read your posts. You talk complete <deleted>. I visualize that you are 21 and know it all but understand nothing. From an oldy that has watched my country bend over backwards for foreigners l am quite pissed off. Change, perhaps yes but change for it's natives, which is not happening. My mum and dad passed away last year, both fuming at the way the country has gone when THEY had to fight to keep England, England. I will not argue with you here cos it's pointless but people like you make many angry.

You are of course aware, as I am sure that you parents were aware that the UK Armed forces included men and women from the commonwealth nations, the following (modern nation names given) of which contributed men and materiel to the UK war effort:

Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Bangladesh, Barbados, Bahrain, Belize, Botswana, Brunei, Burma, Bhutan, Cameroon, Canada, Cyprus, Dominica, Egypt, Ethiopia, Gambia,Ghana, Grenada, Guyana, Fiji, Hong Kong, India, Israel, Jamaica, Jordan, Kenya, Kiribati, Kuwait, Lesotho,Libya, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Malta, Mauritius, Namibia, Nauru,New Zealand, Nepal, Nigeria, Oman, Pakistan, Palestine, Papua New Guinea, Qatar, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Samoa, Seychelles,Sierra Leone, Singapore, Solomon Islands, Somaliland, South Africa, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Swaziland, Tanzania, Tonga, Trinidad and Tobago, Tuvalu, Uganda, Vanuatu, Yemen, Zambia, Zimbabwe

And in your own rantings against Eastern Europeans coming to the UK, you are perhaps forgetting the many Polish citizens who fought and died in the British Armed forces.

Without the contribution and sacrifice of these peoples you'd more than likely have been raised in a defeated province of the Greater German Empire. Though I accept that might have suited you nicely.

Rubbish argument.

You forget, England wanted to rule the world and it nearly did so your daft thoughts are the world can now come and live in this tiny island.

If you recall it was the UK going to the aid of Poland, not in the Common Wealth, that started it all off. Common Wealth countries fought for the crown, then they went home, HOME, back to their own land, same as Aussies, Canadians, whoever, back home. Our boys are fighting foreign wars and then they go home. Which on this subject has nothing to do with my comment on the spongers cramming into UK instead of improving their own land for their own people.

Why are thousands of E.Europeans camping on the shores of France, like Hitler did, trying to figuring out a way to get across that channel. Why don't they stay in France or any other country they have been in, why. Cos UK is an easy touch, handouts, housing, free health care, you name it. None of these people head for the free Russia do they, no.

UK government has admitted it has probably 500,000 illegal immigrants in UK in the last couple of years. These are illegal, but working, taking work away from the natives cos they work for peanuts living 10 to a room somewhere and are paying nothing back in taxes. You and l will obviously always differ on this subject, but my eyes are open.

Open, but alas, blinkered.

really mr. thakkar.

well let me tell you something, people not only in the u.k. but in other parts of europe are starting to wake up to the fact and are either doing one of two things. voting with their feet and getting the hel_l out of it or voting with a little piece of paper and putting it into that thing called a ballot box. not the most ideal scenarios when you consider the types of parties that are out there, if you get my gist, but what else are the nationals of said countries suppose to do when they voice their opinions and know-one bothers to listen.

do you really think that gordon brown and his group of left wing loonie liberals lost the last general election purely on the basis that he is a bumbling one eyed scottish <deleted> or was it maybe because of the fact that people had just had enough of seeing "their" country being run into the ground. not to mention all the p.c. bullshit that came with it !

Edited September 20, 2010 by tigerfish

[carmine]

Excellent stuff Mr Tigerfish.

[jayboy]

I don't mean to sound awful, but I think this question resonates best with two groups, group (1) - retirees that have the finances / pensions etc from a career in the West and are looking for the quiet life, not very materialistic in their needs etc, and group (2) - Less wealthy young males, who don't have the best of things in the UK anyway, limited job prospects here or there and living here is genuinely better at that level.

For sucessfull and wealthy expats it is not all that here anymore. There are limted education choices for kids - assuming that you wish your kids to receive the same quality of (private) education that you benefited from. Home ownership and the rule of law is better in the UK. A super car here costs upwards of 10 million baht vs 1 - 2 mil in the UK. But groups 1 & 2 above aren't in to the cars anyway as group 1 has grown out of them and group 2 could never have had one anyway, so this point has no relevance for most. Neither group 1 or 2 is likley to have child dependants - again, a big factor in the OP's question in terms of releveance.

Property, we can't own a big house here (freehold) and a condo that a 30 - 40 year high flyer woudl live in in the West is expensive here, circa 25 - 30 ++ mil cash. No mortgages, so cash only. Again, groups 1 & 2 above, can in group 1 buy a good condo (with a lifetimes savings) or rent, and group 2 can rent from THB 20 to 50k and even at the lower end it beats a council flat in Peckham..

So what's missing? the wealthy younger set with a caree in th eprofessions is almost non exsitent here - unlike Hong Kong or SIngapore where wealthy younger expats flourish, and groups 1 & 2 are almost non existent.

Now you may have your answer.

Very perceptive post.I'm afraid that 99% of the time those who describe the UK as a hel_l hole or similar are second tier types - financially, socially, educationally (council house in Peckham types is a rather unkind way to describe them, but where the cap fits....).I suppose we are stuck here in Thailand with these slack jawed resentful proles - whose needs are satisfied by beer, soccer on UBC and similarly down market Thai "wives".How do we get rid of these parasites? I'm hoping for a further deterioration in the Sterling/baht exchange rate so they are forced to move off somewhere else.Think of it - Pattaya for example free of these tattoo ugly drunks.Bliss!

[GuestHouse]

Unfortunately it's the older generation who mainly see what's happening to the UK, most youngsters accept it as that is how it is. When l go back to UK and see every corner shop and others, gas stations, even renewing my passport, everything is run by non-natives. Racist, me, no, just cannot believe what's happening. Even a Labour gov. minister was broadcasting how HE wants more of his Muslim religion to be integrated into UK government so he could send more money out of UK to poorer Muslim countries, YET, a UK pensioner who has worked, fought to make the UK what it is, cannot live in a country of his choosing when he retires and get a UK pension of the day, but the immigrants will in the UK and many come from a country not on the government OK list. I can go on but.......

The hypocrisy of this man knows no bounds.

He's a foreigner living in Thailand and he rants against foreigners living in his home country.

[GuestHouse]

Unfortunately it's the older generation who mainly see what's happening to the UK, most youngsters accept it as that is how it is. When l go back to UK and see every corner shop and others, gas stations, even renewing my passport, everything is run by non-natives. Racist, me, no, just cannot believe what's happening. Even a Labour gov. minister was broadcasting how HE wants more of his Muslim religion to be integrated into UK government so he could send more money out of UK to poorer Muslim countries, YET, a UK pensioner who has worked, fought to make the UK what it is, cannot live in a country of his choosing when he retires and get a UK pension of the day, but the immigrants will in the UK and many come from a country not on the government OK list. I can go on but.......

The hypocrisy of this man knows no bounds.

He's a foreigner living in Thailand and he rants against foreigners living in his home country.

You are somebody that cannot take on board what l am talking about. I am talking about spongers, in Thailand l give my cash, not take or ponce, like those that are creeping into the UK. OK, where are you from, where are your native family from. No porky's now. We English are all related to Edward II. How about you.

I do take on board what you are saying - Your saying that it's OK for you to live in someone else's country, but not for anyone else to live in your country.

I can't go back as far as Edward II, not with hard evidence, but my mother's done a family search that goes back as far as the mid 1700s , if she manages to find documents placing my family in the UK before then I'll let you know. If she does not does that make my opinion less valid?

------

You mention spongers. Do you have any statistics on the economic impact of immigration to the UK (negative or positive) or is this vision of sponging foreigners something you're clinging onto without evidence to back it up.

The reason I ask is the foreigners I meet in the UK are either professionals (engineers I work with, medical staff I meet at the hospital, academics at the university I'm studying with) or hardworking people doing normal jobs in the hotels, restaurants, shops, public transport services I use.

But its not just my own experience, a friend of mine farms in north Lincolnshire, he tells me that he just could not stay in business without the European workers who do his harvesting for him. He's paying rates set by the Argricultural Wages Board, but there are non of your 'native' takers - The local people won't take the jobs despite high unemployment in the area - They'd rather sponge off the welfare state and leave the jobs to the Polish workers.

Keeping this Thai related, I know a couple of dozen Thais living in the UK - Most are professionals, engineers, chemists, economists making very good money, paying a lot of tax and providing expertise to the company they are working for that is not readily available in the UK. The rest are working in the service sector, hotels, restaurants, shops. All of the Thais I know working in the UK service sector are working at least two jobs. Busting their backsides and saving for their future return to Thailand.

An Indian engineer I know has just moved to the UK, his wife ( also an engineer) is working two service sector jobs because she can't find work as an engineer.

You've got to ask how many of those good old British Natives you keep harping on about are willing to work like this? Not many - Hand out and give me the welfare cheque.

[GuestHouse]

Well good for you and your hi-so foreign collegues, me, l was at the other end of the scale, and saw what was actually going on. My pal was a police undercover on local trains into London, E.European 5 year olds begging for money in the rush hour, chaperoned by a minder. Daily accurance but you hi-so bods know nothing about that sort of stuff, same as the government in their fat jobs AND has now been shown these so called politicians have been ripping the tax payer off. You want me to go on or have you a dinner date with your hi-so couldn't give a shit about their own country pals.

Ah.... So the baggage your carrying also includes the old 'Chip-On-The-Shoulder' Class thing.

By 'Hi-So' I presume you mean 'Educated' - Please, it's not my fault you didn't pay attention at school.

[Thakkar]

w11Guy, Well l have sat back and read your posts. You talk complete <deleted>. I visualize that you are 21 and know it all but understand nothing. From an oldy that has watched my country bend over backwards for foreigners l am quite pissed off. Change, perhaps yes but change for it's natives, which is not happening. My mum and dad passed away last year, both fuming at the way the country has gone when THEY had to fight to keep England, England. I will not argue with you here cos it's pointless but people like you make many angry.

You are of course aware, as I am sure that you parents were aware that the UK Armed forces included men and women from the commonwealth nations, the following (modern nation names given) of which contributed men and materiel to the UK war effort:

Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Bangladesh, Barbados, Bahrain, Belize, Botswana, Brunei, Burma, Bhutan, Cameroon, Canada, Cyprus, Dominica, Egypt, Ethiopia, Gambia,Ghana, Grenada, Guyana, Fiji, Hong Kong, India, Israel, Jamaica, Jordan, Kenya, Kiribati, Kuwait, Lesotho,Libya, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Malta, Mauritius, Namibia, Nauru,New Zealand, Nepal, Nigeria, Oman, Pakistan, Palestine, Papua New Guinea, Qatar, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Samoa, Seychelles,Sierra Leone, Singapore, Solomon Islands, Somaliland, South Africa, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Swaziland, Tanzania, Tonga, Trinidad and Tobago, Tuvalu, Uganda, Vanuatu, Yemen, Zambia, Zimbabwe

And in your own rantings against Eastern Europeans coming to the UK, you are perhaps forgetting the many Polish citizens who fought and died in the British Armed forces.

Without the contribution and sacrifice of these peoples you'd more than likely have been raised in a defeated province of the Greater German Empire. Though I accept that might have suited you nicely.

Rubbish argument.

You forget, England wanted to rule the world and it nearly did so your daft thoughts are the world can now come and live in this tiny island.

If you recall it was the UK going to the aid of Poland, not in the Common Wealth, that started it all off. Common Wealth countries fought for the crown, then they went home, HOME, back to their own land, same as Aussies, Canadians, whoever, back home. Our boys are fighting foreign wars and then they go home. Which on this subject has nothing to do with my comment on the spongers cramming into UK instead of improving their own land for their own people.

Why are thousands of E.Europeans camping on the shores of France, like Hitler did, trying to figuring out a way to get across that channel. Why don't they stay in France or any other country they have been in, why. Cos UK is an easy touch, handouts, housing, free health care, you name it. None of these people head for the free Russia do they, no.

UK government has admitted it has probably 500,000 illegal immigrants in UK in the last couple of years. These are illegal, but working, taking work away from the natives cos they work for peanuts living 10 to a room somewhere and are paying nothing back in taxes. You and l will obviously always differ on this subject, but my eyes are open.

'Thakkar' said:

Open, but alas, blinkered.

'tigerfish' said:

really mr. thakkar.

well let me tell you something, people not only in the u.k. but in other parts of europe are starting to wake up to the fact and are either doing one of two things. voting with their feet and getting the hel_l out of it or voting with a little piece of paper and putting it into that thing called a ballot box. not the most ideal scenarios when you consider the types of parties that are out there, if you get my gist, but what else are the nationals of said countries suppose to do when they voice their opinions and know-one bothers to listen.

do you really think that gordon brown and his group of left wing loonie liberals lost the last general election purely on the basis that he is a bumbling one eyed scottish <deleted> or was it maybe because of the fact that people had just had enough of seeing "their" country being run into the ground. not to mention all the p.c. bullshit that came with it

--

Mr. Tigerfish,

Incompetent handling of Immigration Policy is indeed one of the many reasons for Labor's loss in the last general elections. More important reasons include high unemployment, a collapsed economy, a gaping budget deficit, bankrupt banks, a housing price collapse, an illegal and unpopular war, Brown's ineptness as a politician and an inability to connect with every day people, the fact that he chickened out of calling elections at an early stage, the MP expenses scandal, and, not least, the unexpected popularity of the Lib Dems who took votes from Labor.

If you're saying that somehow illegal immigration is the cause of recent Europe-wide economic crises, then most economists and knowledgeable political pundits would disagree.

But if you're saying that hate-mongering far right parties are using immigration as a wedge issue to stir divisions, rally bigots and low information voters in an effort to gain votes, then you are right.

But the voters as a whole have been sensible because the far right parties aren't really doing that well, no doubt to the chagrin of their supporters. And if some of them leave their home countries, it may not be such a bad thing. The country will be better off and these newly-minted expats in turn will learn what it's like to live as a minority.

[Thakkar]

You are of course aware, as I am sure that you parents were aware that the UK Armed forces included men and women from the commonwealth nations, the following (modern nation names given) of which contributed men and materiel to the UK war effort:

Antigua and Barbuda, Australia, Bahamas, Bangladesh, Barbados, Bahrain, Belize, Botswana, Brunei, Burma, Bhutan, Cameroon, Canada, Cyprus, Dominica, Egypt, Ethiopia, Gambia,Ghana, Grenada, Guyana, Fiji, Hong Kong, India, Israel, Jamaica, Jordan, Kenya, Kiribati, Kuwait, Lesotho,Libya, Malawi, Malaysia, Maldives, Malta, Mauritius, Namibia, Nauru,New Zealand, Nepal, Nigeria, Oman, Pakistan, Palestine, Papua New Guinea, Qatar, Saint Kitts and Nevis, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines, Samoa, Seychelles,Sierra Leone, Singapore, Solomon Islands, Somaliland, South Africa, Sri Lanka, Sudan, Swaziland, Tanzania, Tonga, Trinidad and Tobago, Tuvalu, Uganda, Vanuatu, Yemen, Zambia, Zimbabwe

And in your own rantings against Eastern Europeans coming to the UK, you are perhaps forgetting the many Polish citizens who fought and died in the British Armed forces.

Without the contribution and sacrifice of these peoples you'd more than likely have been raised in a defeated province of the Greater German Empire. Though I accept that might have suited you nicely.

Rubbish argument.

You forget, England wanted to rule the world and it nearly did so your daft thoughts are the world can now come and live in this tiny island.

If you recall it was the UK going to the aid of Poland, not in the Common Wealth, that started it all off. Common Wealth countries fought for the crown, then they went home, HOME, back to their own land, same as Aussies, Canadians, whoever, back home. Our boys are fighting foreign wars and then they go home. Which on this subject has nothing to do with my comment on the spongers cramming into UK instead of improving their own land for their own people.

Why are thousands of E.Europeans camping on the shores of France, like Hitler did, trying to figuring out a way to get across that channel. Why don't they stay in France or any other country they have been in, why. Cos UK is an easy touch, handouts, housing, free health care, you name it. None of these people head for the free Russia do they, no.

UK government has admitted it has probably 500,000 illegal immigrants in UK in the last couple of years. These are illegal, but working, taking work away from the natives cos they work for peanuts living 10 to a room somewhere and are paying nothing back in taxes. You and l will obviously always differ on this subject, but my eyes are open.

Open, but alas, blinkered.

Check out post 54 again.

By asking me to read post # 54, are you saying that my opposing but considered and so far polite responses to your rants amount to "taking the piss" out of a fellow poster? If so, please reacquaint yourself as to what it means to 'have a discussion'.

If on the other hand you mean that you are entitled to post whatever you want, then I agree wholeheartedly. In fact, if it were up to me, I'd do away with the TV rules that disallow racist ranting (Mods, could we please allow that, even if it's just once a year, say on Halloween? ).

I'm equally entitled to dispute your assertions, and I've tried to do so on the merits rather than go off on angry tirades about immigration, which isn't even the topic. What I see happening is you getting increasingly irate at your inability to support your own illogic.

[trompelemonde]

Transam,

Re; Edward II

So what you are saying here is that 'we English' (to use your phrase) are all descended from a bi-sexual, hopeless King who is perhaps best known for having 'met his end' in the most painful way imaginable?

Makes us proud !!

[StreetCowboy]

8>< SNIP NESTED QUOTES DELETED ><8

You sound like someone who was born with a silver spoon in their mouth and phones mum every day. Yes - No. Hmmm

Thanks for reminding us of the importance of fillial piety. I should phone my dear old mother more often...

On the topic of living in London, I'm reminded of the late Prsident Kennedy, "Think not what my country can do for me, but what can I do for my country" and we can consider how much the UK is improved by the absence of some of the Brits who are here...

SC

Hi-So Engineers. Oh thank you very much, that's made my day, that has!

In the spirit of class solidarity, I prefer to think of myself as an itinerant worker...

[Jimjim]

I like this thread. Very real, honest question from Chopper71.

Ever since I moved back from Thailand, I've felt the move is always just temporary and always thinking about returning to Thailand. However, it's now been 2 years!

So, will I ever return? I don't know. I always say "6 months, 6 months" and it never happens. So, I can understand how you're feeling. For me, always thinking I will eventually go back I think has lead to a general dissatisfied feeling.

Basically, I think it's just a mental thing. I either have to just be happy where I am and plan to stay here or decide soon if I'll go back again, and be happy with the decision either way.

So I don't have a good answer, sorry.

[norrona]

majority on here are missing the point in my opinion....

most farangs go to Thailand to live a semi retired life or have an extended holiday they hope will never end....

so if you are anywhere in the world with nothing but yourself to please and the means to do it then returning home and to work is not going to be favourable....

the moans I have about England is from the daily grind.

and theres a lot more white British people on the dole collecting handouts from the state than there is immigrants, we left this country wide open for others to take advantage and they are mopping up.

The youth in the U.K won't take a shelf stacking job or anything like that, the majority of them think they are above it...FACT!

[shamus]

Most of the Thais I used to know were some of the most materialistic people I've ever known.

It all depends on which part of the world you originally came from to reintegrate successfully I suppose.

I was born in Yorkshire which along with having it's fair share of d1ckheads and rainy days, also has some of the nicest people you'd ever meet, beautiful countryside, rare nature.

Obviously returning to the UK is not going to be fun (or cheap:) if you're used to bedding a different hooker each day of the week and sleeping in the sun most of the day.

Keep your head down, laugh at the fools who have taken on mountains of debt just to have that new car every couple of years and a bigger conservatory than next door, live within your means and spend all your money on living.

BUT most importantly remember the minority you think you are in is actually not as small as you think.

Edited September 21, 2010 by shamus

[RudieTheFoodie]

"Well good for you and your hi-so foreign collegues, me, l was at the other end of the scale, and saw what was actually going on. My pal was a police undercover on local trains into London, E.European 5 year olds begging for money in the rush hour, chaperoned by a minder. Daily accurance but you hi-so bods know nothing about that sort of stuff, same as the government in their fat jobs AND has now been shown these so called politicians have been ripping the tax payer off. You want me to go on or have you a dinner date with your hi-so couldn't give a shit about their own country pals.

Sorry Transam - that there sealed the argument.

[RudieTheFoodie]

"The Daily Grind" - never thought you hammers had n incling

Seriously though - thats the difference.

It's a "Slide" here rather than a "Grind"