Getting A Book Published

[Drew Aitch]

Hi Chiang Mai

Just a stab in the dark here, but you never know! I created a website for a family member which is styled as a kind of online book with illustrated articles, chapters and so on.

I was just wondering if there is anywhere in Chiang Mai where I could make this online publication into a 'quality' hardback book, say of A5 size?

I wouldn't know where to start looking, or what the costs might be a couple of one-off books, but was just thinking it might be a nice idea for Christmas presents this year.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance

Aitch

[richardt1808]

Hi,

Any decent printer would be able to do a number of versions of standard mock-up. Using a hot-glue binder would probably be the easiest method.

The problem is that text and pictures formatted for any PC monitors, would be at 72 DPI, whereas to be crisp and clean for printing, you would need better resolution of 300 to 600 DPI, so you would need someone to re-do the layout in a proper pagemaker program. We use Adobe InDesign here, but there are others. I'm sure any graphic design place near you would be able to recommend a freelancer.

Cheers

[IanForbes]

Contact Lee Thomas of the Chiang Mai writer's club. I know the club got a book published last year at a reasonable rate.

contact me by PM for an e-mail address.

[ianf]

Hi,

Any decent printer would be able to do a number of versions of standard mock-up. Using a hot-glue binder would probably be the easiest method.

The problem is that text and pictures formatted for any PC monitors, would be at 72 DPI, whereas to be crisp and clean for printing, you would need better resolution of 300 to 600 DPI, so you would need someone to re-do the layout in a proper pagemaker program. We use Adobe InDesign here, but there are others. I'm sure any graphic design place near you would be able to recommend a freelancer.

Cheers

As a publisher (retired) of many years standing can I try and help a little bit here.

First of all there is a huge difference between getting a book published and getting a book printed.

If you want a book printed, then there are horses for courses. It depends on how many pages, what format, how many copies etc etc. A small press printer more used to letterheads, low run booklets and so on could not cope with a large format coffee-table glossy (for example). And vice versa.

Now some people seem to think printing is to do with typesetting, graphics and so on. It's not. Printing is the simple act of putting ink on paper and then binding, trimming etc as required.

But the printer has to work from something! The book needs to be designed, typeset, paged and proofed (ie check for typos).

Are you going to do that and simply ask the printer to plate from the pages you supply? Or will you go to a typesetting service that knows how to page a book and design a cover?

Now, if you are looking for a publisher (as requested in your email), bear in mind that a publisher and a printer are two entirely different animals. A publisher will choose a title on its merits (an wether it fits into the existing range), edit and design to house style and then distribute through their network. You get paid a royalty. A publisher, like Penguin or Speechmark for example, do not own printing presses. Printing is purely a service provided to the publisher.

OK: So you want to self-publish. Easy, you approach the typesetter and printer and pay for their services (quite cheap here in Chiang Mai). But then comes the next problem and the most difficult part. How will you distribute your book? How about marketing? Who will want to read it. Danger is, As I have seen on so many occasions, you'll be left with a stack of books that you've paid for and that nobody wants to buy.

Finally, there are vanity publishers. These are people who claim to publish your book but what they in fact do is simply to print x number of copies and you pay them for the privilege. Note a respectable publisher will never ever ask you to pay them, they pay you. And if your book is rejected by all publishers that you approach 99 times out of a 100 the reason is because:

They see no market for it

Its badly written and needs too much editing

It does not fir in with their speciality (ie no good sending a book about Grandad's life to an architectural publisher).

Hope this clarifies things.

Professional advice for which I would normally charge a huge fee .......... come to think of it .... (lol)

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Drew,

Let us see if we can blow away some of the smoke emitted by two other responses to your request: (we'll claim some cred here based on nearly four years work at Adobe including working on Illustrator, PhotoShop, the Acrobat prototype, Mutiple-Master font technology, and producing a complex color and resolution PostScript test page for the international printing industry under the sponsorship of Fuji-Xerox, Dupont, and other industry leaders in consortium with Adobe)

dpi = dots per inch : note that a "dot" may not be a "pixel" (the smallest 'atomic' unit a device can display or print): on computer monitors typically a pixel is composed of dots of three colors; on printers a more complex story depending on whether you are printing directly in mono-color, printing spot color using half-tone screening, or preparing full color separation plates (CMYK plus one extra plate for each spot color) for full-color press work.

The problem is that text and pictures formatted for any PC monitors, would be at 72 DPI, whereas to be crisp and clean for printing, you would need better resolution of 300 to 600 DPI, so you would need someone to re-do the layout in a proper pagemaker program. We use Adobe InDesign here, but there are others. I'm sure any graphic design place near you would be able to recommend a freelancer.

.

This statement fails to recognize that the VISIBLE resolution of what you see on a PC screen, which may well be 72 dpi (many monitors now have much higher resolution than that, and many notebook computer screens now approach above 100 dpi), is one thing AND THE POSSIBLE RESOLUTION which can be realized in printing is absolutely another. Adobe fonts, OpenType fonts, etc. are defined internally by vectors which are resolution independent, and they are "rendered" to a device (screen, printer, fax, whatever) at an appropriate resolution for that device via the "driver software" which is used as a "translator" from computer to output device.

The average newspaper of today (which is using cheap paper) is often printed at less than 200 dpi. Mass market paperback books (text only, cheap paper) are commonly done around 2-300dpi.

The idea you need a "freelancer" to "layout" your pages in the way described above is dubious. You can produce well-formatted pages, with inserted pictures, in Microsoft Word, the free Sun Office software available on-line, and in many other tools. That doesn't imply, however, that a graphic designer who's very competent with programs like InDesign couldn't ADD VALUE through their design skills, awareness of issues of readability, typography, etc. We respect and cherish graphic designers !

Your pictures (assume taken by you) almost certainly have an inherent resolution greater than 72 dpi. Digital cameras vary in whether or not they give you access to the "RAW" file information, or to the raw information ONLY as post-processed into .jpg or other form. Again, there are different "universes" possible here: one universe is low-quality offset one-color printing on standard non-coated stock; another universe is professional quality coated stock on which the best quality digital images are rendered via CMYK color separation plates at resolutions up to 2400 dpi and beyond (think National Geographic).

For a book meant only as a gift to friends, we're sure you can find a happy medium using the content (text), and graphics (pictures) you probably have on hand already. There are many on-line publishers who will do small runs, but we have not researched those in the last few years, so don't want to say anything about that except: Google on 'self-publishing,' 'printing scrapbooks,' etc.

A friend of ours here has, with our help, self-published two hard-bound books, one 175pp., the other 423pp., both hard-bound, both around 12 inches high, and eight inches wide, both with slip-covers using embossing and spot colors (one used gold, the other silver), both using higher-quality coated stock. 500 units of each book (total 1000 books) averaged to a cost per book of 76 baht. Note that these books did not use color images, thus, requiring no use of CMYK color separation. But you can, of course, expect such low prices, only on high-volume "press runs."

Now we come to the second response with left us with much laughter when the writer wrote: "Professional advice for which I would normally charge a huge fee."

But the printer has to work from something! The book needs to be designed, typeset, paged and proofed (ie check for typos). Are you going to do that and simply ask the printer to plate from the pages you supply? Or will you go to a typesetting service that knows how to page a book and design a cover?

This advice, thirty-forty years ago, or later, would have been, indeed, spot-on. But in today's context of software that will spell-check for you, vector fonts (Adobe, ClearType, OpenType), and cheap ink-jet printers that can and do produce fantastic results at resolutions over 200 dpi (while costing you a bundle for ink), and lots of on-line printers that will do small "runs" direct from digital files ... and the fact that almost every printer working today can work ... and is working ... DIRECT FROM DIGITAL FILES ... that advice is a nostalgic reverie for days long gone. We met some of the "grand old folks" of typesetting in the 1980's where non-WSYWIG high-end coded-markup systems were used: theirs' was an art, indeed, as was what typesetters used to do with hot lead on a LinoType. It took a long time for awareness of the fine points of typography (kerning, etc.) to get into the mind of even the average graphic designer during the so-called "desktop publishing revolution."

The rest of the above mentioned post's advice concerns commercial publishing, and "vanity presses," which the original poster obviously does not intend to use, or need to use in this situation. But, as mentioned, there are now many on-line publishers who will print small runs, and they are in no way scams as the "vanity presses" were (are ?).

Here's a proposal for you, a "middle way," if you will:

1. first locate the page make-up software you feel comfortable using, or find a friend who's somewhat capable with some page-design software. note that if you wish text to "flow around" inserted graphics that may influence your choice of software, and if you want text to flow around the shape of an "irregular" (non-rectangular) graphic, that's another challenge that may require different software.

2. assemble all the text-only content that will go into your book: run a spell-checker on every one of those files.

3. find a template, or a design you like for a book, or magazine, and use that to start designing, laying-out your prototype, or having your friend lay it out for you. or, the page makeup software you are using may come with pre-defined templats you can start using immediately when you create a new document.

4. determine and note down the resolution of each of the graphic files needed to be inserted into the text. get some advice, perhaps from the weekly meeting of the CPMG photography group on Wednesday nights, on how you might want to "balance out" or adjust the images so that dynamic range is taken advantage of when printing.

a. an important decision here will be use of "full color," or black-white-gray only (single color ink, haltone screening for grays), or some use of spot colors (for example make the photographs duotones, using black as one color).

5. plug the text content, headings, sub-heading, etc. into the template, paste in the pictures into the prototype.

6. print the prototype on a good quality ink-jet printer, and eyeball it many times, and go back and adjust the design. re-print, repeat until you are satisfied.

7. with the prototype in hand, then make a strategic decision based on how many copies you want to print:

a. if only a few, perhaps an ink-jet is fine : note if you choose full-color you can still save on ink by printing all black-grey page only in one batch setting the printer to "grayscale" only. Then print the pages that do use full color as a batch.

b. if many, go seek estimates from recommended local printers (most all of whom WILL work direct from digital files, and if they don't be assured you will NOT want to employ them).

good luck, ~o:37;

Edited September 15, 2010 by orang37

[Greenside]

Try popping into Photo Bug (Tannon Chiang Phuak, about 200m outside the gate) and checking out their photobook service. They have a spiffing Canon machine that makes nice high quality books - you download the free software and they publish in a day or so. Paperbacks, hardbacks, neat little boxed collections and coffee table tomes. Of course you'll need to have images that will stand reproduction but ask for Pop and he'll put you in the picture (so to speak).

[ianf]

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Drew,

Let us see if we can blow away some of the smoke emitted by two other responses to your request: (we'll claim some cred here based on nearly four years work at Adobe including working on Illustrator, PhotoShop, the Acrobat prototype, Mutiple-Master font technology, and producing a complex color and resolution PostScript test page for the international printing industry under the sponsorship of Fuji-Xerox, Dupont, and other industry leaders in consortium with Adobe)

dpi = dots per inch : note that a "dot" may not be a "pixel" (the smallest 'atomic' unit a device can display or print): on computer monitors typically a pixel is composed of dots of three colors; on printers a more complex story depending on whether you are printing directly in mono-color, printing spot color using half-tone screening, or preparing full color separation plates (CMYK plus one extra plate for each spot color) for full-color press work.

The problem is that text and pictures formatted for any PC monitors, would be at 72 DPI, whereas to be crisp and clean for printing, you would need better resolution of 300 to 600 DPI, so you would need someone to re-do the layout in a proper pagemaker program. We use Adobe InDesign here, but there are others. I'm sure any graphic design place near you would be able to recommend a freelancer.

.

This statement fails to recognize that the VISIBLE resolution of what you see on a PC screen, which may well be 72 dpi (many monitors now have much higher resolution than that, and many notebook computer screens now approach above 100 dpi), is one thing AND THE POSSIBLE RESOLUTION which can be realized in printing is absolutely another. Adobe fonts, OpenType fonts, etc. are defined internally by vectors which are resolution independent, and they are "rendered" to a device (screen, printer, fax, whatever) at an appropriate resolution for that device via the "driver software" which is used as a "translator" from computer to output device.

The average newspaper of today (which is using cheap paper) is often printed at less than 200 dpi. Mass market paperback books (text only, cheap paper) are commonly done around 2-300dpi.

The idea you need a "freelancer" to "layout" your pages in the way described above is dubious. You can produce well-formatted pages, with inserted pictures, in Microsoft Word, the free Sun Office software available on-line, and in many other tools. That doesn't imply, however, that a graphic designer who's very competent with programs like InDesign couldn't ADD VALUE through their design skills, awareness of issues of readability, typography, etc. We respect and cherish graphic designers !

Your pictures (assume taken by you) almost certainly have an inherent resolution greater than 72 dpi. Digital cameras vary in whether or not they give you access to the "RAW" file information, or to the raw information ONLY as post-processed into .jpg or other form. Again, there are different "universes" possible here: one universe is low-quality offset one-color printing on standard non-coated stock; another universe is professional quality coated stock on which the best quality digital images are rendered via CMYK color separation plates at resolutions up to 2400 dpi and beyond (think National Geographic).

For a book meant only as a gift to friends, we're sure you can find a happy medium using the content (text), and graphics (pictures) you probably have on hand already. There are many on-line publishers who will do small runs, but we have not researched those in the last few years, so don't want to say anything about that except: Google on 'self-publishing,' 'printing scrapbooks,' etc.

A friend of ours here has, with our help, self-published two hard-bound books, one 175pp., the other 423pp., both hard-bound, both around 12 inches high, and eight inches wide, both with slip-covers using embossing and spot colors (one used gold, the other silver), both using higher-quality coated stock. 500 units of each book (total 1000 books) averaged to a cost per book of 76 baht. Note that these books did not use color images, thus, requiring no use of CMYK color separation. But you can, of course, expect such low prices, only on high-volume "press runs."

Now we come to the second response with left us with much laughter when the writer wrote: "Professional advice for which I would normally charge a huge fee."

But the printer has to work from something! The book needs to be designed, typeset, paged and proofed (ie check for typos). Are you going to do that and simply ask the printer to plate from the pages you supply? Or will you go to a typesetting service that knows how to page a book and design a cover?

This advice, thirty-forty years ago, or later, would have been, indeed, spot-on. But in today's context of software that will spell-check for you, vector fonts (Adobe, ClearType, OpenType), and cheap ink-jet printers that can and do produce fantastic results at resolutions over 200 dpi (while costing you a bundle for ink), and lots of on-line printers that will do small "runs" direct from digital files ... and the fact that almost every printer working today can work ... and is working ... DIRECT FROM DIGITAL FILES ... that advice is a nostalgic reverie for days long gone. We met some of the "grand old folks" of typesetting in the 1980's where non-WSYWIG high-end coded-markup systems were used: theirs' was an art, indeed, as was what typesetters used to do with hot lead on a LinoType. It took a long time for awareness of the fine points of typography (kerning, etc.) to get into the mind of even the average graphic designer during the so-called "desktop publishing revolution."

The rest of the above mentioned post's advice concerns commercial publishing, and "vanity presses," which the original poster obviously does not intend to use, or need to use in this situation. But, as mentioned, there are now many on-line publishers who will print small runs, and they are in no way scams as the "vanity presses" were (are ?).

Here's a proposal for you, a "middle way," if you will:

1. first locate the page make-up software you feel comfortable using, or find a friend who's somewhat capable with some page-design software. note that if you wish text to "flow around" inserted graphics that may influence your choice of software, and if you want text to flow around the shape of an "irregular" (non-rectangular) graphic, that's another challenge that may require different software.

2. assemble all the text-only content that will go into your book: run a spell-checker on every one of those files.

3. find a template, or a design you like for a book, or magazine, and use that to start designing, laying-out your prototype, or having your friend lay it out for you. or, the page makeup software you are using may come with pre-defined templats you can start using immediately when you create a new document.

4. determine and note down the resolution of each of the graphic files needed to be inserted into the text. get some advice, perhaps from the weekly meeting of the CPMG photography group on Wednesday nights, on how you might want to "balance out" or adjust the images so that dynamic range is taken advantage of when printing.

a. an important decision here will be use of "full color," or black-white-gray only (single color ink, haltone screening for grays), or some use of spot colors (for example make the photographs duotones, using black as one color).

5. plug the text content, headings, sub-heading, etc. into the template, paste in the pictures into the prototype.

6. print the prototype on a good quality ink-jet printer, and eyeball it many times, and go back and adjust the design. re-print, repeat until you are satisfied.

7. with the prototype in hand, then make a strategic decision based on how many copies you want to print:

a. if only a few, perhaps an ink-jet is fine : note if you choose full-color you can still save on ink by printing all black-grey page only in one batch setting the printer to "grayscale" only. Then print the pages that do use full color as a batch.

b. if many, go seek estimates from recommended local printers (most all of whom WILL work direct from digital files, and if they don't be assured you will NOT want to employ them).

good luck, ~o:37;

Oh dear! Oh dear. Some people left their sense of humour back in their home countries.

I didn't at any time refer to "Vanity Presses" I think I called them by their proper name. Vanity Publishers.##

Yes, since the wizards of computery decided that 'desk top' was the way to go, the world has been assailed by poorly printed and difficult to read texts. That is precisely because these geeks are great at computers but totally untrained as far as typography, graphic design, book imposition and so forth goes. They're happy to proof read by spell check which means that the computer often corrects spellings for words out of context. So please don't put me down. I sold my company, Speechmark and that was very successful thank you and was praised for having some of the best produced books in its niche.

And I am sorry to say you do not understand the difference between publishing and printing. 35 years ago the difference would have been the same as it is today. There is nothing wrong with limited run amateur desk top for individuals, organisations, charities and so on. Indeed current technology has been a boon for this sort of activity. What I did not realise was that the poster wanted to do 'just a couple of copies' in which case desk-top is way to go. But if you are in this business, don't confuse people by referring to processes incorrectly. Also, production may be easy these days but self-distribution is as difficult as it ever has been.

Having said all that I do need a good typographer to prepare the a/w for a booklet I am producing. Any ideas?

Edited September 15, 2010 by ianf

[ianf]

Try popping into Photo Bug (Tannon Chiang Phuak, about 200m outside the gate) and checking out their photobook service. They have a spiffing Canon machine that makes nice high quality books - you download the free software and they publish in a day or so. Paperbacks, hardbacks, neat little boxed collections and coffee table tomes. Of course you'll need to have images that will stand reproduction but ask for Pop and he'll put you in the picture (so to speak).

They do not publish in a day or so. They print in a day or so. Totally different.

[Soulwy]

Hi Aitch, this morning I was using the search engine and I thought I saw a topic about book binding...

The website sounds interesting!!

[Greenside]

Try popping into Photo Bug (Tannon Chiang Phuak, about 200m outside the gate) and checking out their photobook service. They have a spiffing Canon machine that makes nice high quality books - you download the free software and they publish in a day or so. Paperbacks, hardbacks, neat little boxed collections and coffee table tomes. Of course you'll need to have images that will stand reproduction but ask for Pop and he'll put you in the picture (so to speak).

They do not publish in a day or so. They print in a day or so. Totally different.

Of course they don't publish it. Silly slip of the keyboard while trying to be of help to the OP...

[canuckamuck]

Oh dear! Oh dear. Some people left their sense of humour back in their home countries.

I didn't at any time refer to "Vanity Presses" I think I called them by their proper name. Vanity Publishers.##

Yes, since the wizards of computery decided that 'desk top' was the way to go, the world has been assailed by poorly printed and difficult to read texts. That is precisely because these geeks are great at computers but totally untrained as far as typography, graphic design, book imposition and so forth goes. They're happy to proof read by spell check which means that the computer often corrects spellings for words out of context. So please don't put me down. I sold my company, Speechmark and that was very successful thank you and was praised for having some of the best produced books in its niche.

And I am sorry to say you do not understand the difference between publishing and printing. 35 years ago the difference would have been the same as it is today. There is nothing wrong with limited run amateur desk top for individuals, organisations, charities and so on. Indeed current technology has been a boon for this sort of activity. What I did not realise was that the poster wanted to do 'just a couple of copies' in which case desk-top is way to go. But if you are in this business, don't confuse people by referring to processes incorrectly. Also, production may be easy these days but self-distribution is as difficult as it ever has been.

Having said all that I do need a good typographer to prepare the a/w for a booklet I am producing. Any ideas?

I am sorry but graphic design is light years beyond where it was 30 years ago. This is not to discount the craftsmanship from years ago, there has always been highly skilled people in the industry. But now imagination is no longer limited by the process.

Over course these days it is also true that some people are producing some the worst work ever produced, because anybody and his dog has the ability to be a printer.

I suggest the OP find a small scale digital reproduction center (copy center) and ask some questions. If he can transform the work into pdf's that would help.

[chiangmaibruce]

I can see the claws are out and the fangs bared in this thread so I'll post this quickly and run for my life.

If you don't go the do-it-yourself route and do want to talk to a local Chiang Mai publisher, then you might call in and see the folks at Silkworm books who did a nice job with my publication (www.silkwormbooks.com)

Edited September 16, 2010 by chiangmaibruce

[Drew Aitch]

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread.

I certainly didn't expect quite so much feedback, if any at all, on this topic, so to get an education as well as some leads on it was quite something. It just goes to show what a diverse bunch we are on this forum.

Btw, I agree the word 'publish' was perhaps not the right word to use and may have caused some initial confusion. I simply meant it in the context of print and produce. But anyway, quite an interesting read all this here, and much appreciated.

Some of the photos in the online version are scanned and over 80 or 90 years old, so how they would look in print is anyone's guess. I've never really understood the DPI importance for publication, because if I print an image out at home that has a very low DPI but looks good on screen, it also looks good when I print it out, especially when I use the highest quality print option.

Still, this is something alien to me, yet I know it's an issue because I had to redo some advertising work a few years back for a publication called Shakers and Movers. Apparently, my imagery was not up to scratch (quality DPI), and so had to be re-done.

My post here is just regarding a website I built recently for the family back home, and I just thought that a hard copy on their bookshelves would have made a nice alternative, and unexpected, kind of gift for this Christmas. I shall look into some of the suggestions posted in this thread to see if it's doable or not.

If anyone would like to see the site in question, especially those who understand the concept of printing a book, just let me know, and I'll post the link here.

This is not a site that will be of any interest to anyone outside the family, but at least you'll have some idea of content and image which may, or may not, trigger off any additional suggestions. Otherwise, I'll simply bookmark what I have thus far and say thanks once again to all who took the time to contribute.

Aitch

[CMgossip]

To slightly high-jack your thread:

Recently I saw a link/advert for a Chiang Mai online PDF library store - I guess a free way for anyone to "publish" and share their book. If only I could remember the address!

I've tried googling for this but to no avail (oh, I wish I had followed the link and bookmarked it). Can anyone help?