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Warnings Issued: New Thailand Red Shirt Demonstrations Could Turn Violent


webfact

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For all the desire some express to keep Thailand's image afloat, and the claims they have a steak - why spend so much time to make things look worse then they are.

Aim ..... fire.... oh my foot!

Does the "steak claim" come with fries? :D

With no shortage of places to cook it, it should be well done. Just like the red supporters. As the funding runs out and the truth runs in, however, both the steaks and supporters will become rare.

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Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade's Smartraveller advisory service

The following Travel Advice has changed or been added since our last update ( 7 Sep 2010 20:02:10 EST):

* Thailand

http://www.smartrave...Advice/Thailand

Current Advice Level: "High degree of caution"

Change Summary:

This advice has been reviewed and reissued. It contains new information under Safety and Security: Civil Unrest/Political Tension

(possibility of increased violence and protests in the lead up to 19 September 2010 and recent explosive device attacks in Chiang Mai).

The overall level of the advice has not changed.

On the BBC last week.The BBC interviewed Thai men,I assume they were leaders of the red shirts.Who Said they were training guys for terrorist activity's and we should expect a bombing campaign in time for the high season starting in November.I'm surprised this didn't become the head lines here immediately, as it was on the BBC.

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There are longstanding deep seated social problems in Thailand. The elites of Thailand and the institutions of Thailand have served to perpetuate a system whereby much of the wealth and power is kept in too few hands.

At the same time Thailand is changing very fast and there is a lot of money being made yet little improvements or progress has been made in reforming institutions or improving conditions for many down the bottom of the social ladder.

The red shirts represent a vehicle for many of the disenfranchised, repressed, poor Thais to express their desire for change politically, socially and economically. It might be argued that they are being manipulated by those that have no intention of really making any substantive changes to the current status quo other than some cosmetic changes around the fringes.

Nonetheless the red shirts may represent the forerunner of a more concerted effort by those with not much to lose (and there are many of those in Thailand) to bring about change. A high tourist season or good business conditions don’t really come into the reckoning when so much more is at stake and when so many have very little to lose anyway.

Residents of Thailand are more than likely in for a long period of politically instability which may well include violent demonstrations and terrorist activity.

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For you ardent religious folk, do you honestly still believe there is a god after all that has come to pass with this bunch? As a CM resident, I just hope those with balls in their draws come down on them like a ton of bricks if there's so much as a mouse fart... although why they are even allowed to do their thing is beyond me. They should be shown no quarter given their MO.

Oh and the yellow shirts can do what they want, man are you misimformed on whats really happening in Thailand

So you are the expert?

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I'm guessing here, but I don't think the precautionary principle is well understood in Thailand.

The prevailing mode of thought seems to be to wait until everything has completely got out of hand and then come down with an enormous s**t-hammer.

how can i make money on this stuff??????whistling.gif

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There are longstanding deep seated social problems in Thailand. The elites of Thailand and the institutions of Thailand have served to perpetuate a system whereby much of the wealth and power is kept in too few hands.

At the same time Thailand is changing very fast and there is a lot of money being made yet little improvements or progress has been made in reforming institutions or improving conditions for many down the bottom of the social ladder.

The red shirts represent a vehicle for many of the disenfranchised, repressed, poor Thais to express their desire for change politically, socially and economically. It might be argued that they are being manipulated by those that have no intention of really making any substantive changes to the current status quo other than some cosmetic changes around the fringes.

Nonetheless the red shirts may represent the forerunner of a more concerted effort by those with not much to lose (and there are many of those in Thailand) to bring about change. A high tourist season or good business conditions don’t really come into the reckoning when so much more is at stake and when so many have very little to lose anyway.

Residents of Thailand are more than likely in for a long period of politically instability which may well include violent demonstrations and terrorist activity.

Nice post. Balanced and calm. Just what we need around here.

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What the govenrment wants us to know is the following: We shoot people in the street and we do not care a bit. We own the judiciary and we are not interested in press freedom or in your opinion. Boters are stupid and should therefore shut up. Let the country be ruled by the people of CAT and by NEwin and friends.

The real facts are that it only turns violent because of the army and becuase of teh way Suthep and Newin are handling criticism. Nepotism must stay after all. It is good for the elite.

You are of course entitled to your opinion, but reading your post maybe opinionated is a better description.

BTW, did you read about the Dem's MP convicted yesterday, you know part of the political party having a majority in the current government you accuse of owning the judiciary ?

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/Democrat-MP-convicted-of-declaring-false-assets-st-30138116.html

LOL @ Barbarian's "The real facts"

I noticed he's not returned to address the shortcomings of his "facts" when confronted with real facts as the link shows.

It's so easy and rudimentary to poke holes in his "real facts"

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UK warns citizens to avoid UDD rally

BANGKOK, 18 September 2010 (NNT) – The UK has issued a warning for its citizens to avoid rally sites of the anti-government United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) for fear of violence.

The British Foreign and Commonwealth Office made an announcement to British citizens in Thailand in regard to the UDD protests to be held in Bangkok and Chiang Mai on 19 September to mark the 4th anniversary of the 2006 military coup.

The authority advised its people to stay away from all gatherings as a precaution against possible escalation into violence.

nntlogo.jpg

-- NNT 2010-09-18 footer_n.gif

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UK warns citizens to avoid UDD rally

BANGKOK, 18 September 2010 (NNT) � The UK has issued a warning for its citizens to avoid rally sites of the anti-government United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD) for fear of violence.

The British Foreign and Commonwealth Office made an announcement to British citizens in Thailand in regard to the UDD protests to be held in Bangkok and Chiang Mai on 19 September to mark the 4th anniversary of the 2006 military coup.

The authority advised its people to stay away from all gatherings as a precaution against possible escalation into violence.

nntlogo.jpg

-- NNT 2010-09-18 footer_n.gif

Let 'Jeff Savage' and 'Connor Purcell' be a warning to all who contemplate joining the fun ;)

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There are longstanding deep seated social problems in Thailand. The elites of Thailand and the institutions of Thailand have served to perpetuate a system whereby much of the wealth and power is kept in too few hands.

At the same time Thailand is changing very fast and there is a lot of money being made yet little improvements or progress has been made in reforming institutions or improving conditions for many down the bottom of the social ladder.

The red shirts represent a vehicle for many of the disenfranchised, repressed, poor Thais to express their desire for change politically, socially and economically. It might be argued that they are being manipulated by those that have no intention of really making any substantive changes to the current status quo other than some cosmetic changes around the fringes.

Nonetheless the red shirts may represent the forerunner of a more concerted effort by those with not much to lose (and there are many of those in Thailand) to bring about change. A high tourist season or good business conditions don’t really come into the reckoning when so much more is at stake and when so many have very little to lose anyway.

Residents of Thailand are more than likely in for a long period of politically instability which may well include violent demonstrations and terrorist activity.

The problem of a few wealthy families running the country is pretty much true in all developing countries. Like Mexico, Peru, etc. This will change, as you have pointed out, many Thais are now becoming middle class...and obviously want more of a say in how the country is run. I seem to remember in my country, a few wealthy families pretty much ran America in the late 1800's and early 1900's (Morgan, Astor, Rockefeller, Carnegie, Vanderbilt, etc.). An interesting fact is that in terms of today's value of the dollar, Rockefeller would be worth almost $320 billion USDs. Pretty insane...and a lot of his wealth was had by illegal means and via bullying.

I think many of us, who beat up on the reds here on TV, would support them if they got rid of Thaksin and avoided violence. Many of us have families in "red" country and would love to see them become more prosperous...would sure help reduce requests for support! :rolleyes:

Thaksin's biggest problem right now is the emerging middle class; the lower class families who were smart enough to fund their kids through university and who are now beginning to see Thaksin and co for what they really are. To even passing observers the red movement is entirely flawed. In the god knows how many months they've been campagining they're only asking now for a welfare state, something Abhisit has been tabling for months and hopes to push through within the next few years. The real, proven method of really assisting the lower classes, education, hasn't even appeared on their agenda yet.

A key reason the red revolt is being funded now by Thaksin (apart from the more obvious yet unspoken issue) is owing to the decreasing window of time Thaksin has to halt the growth of the poorer classes.

If you don't believe Thailand has a real, emerging middle class I seriously question where you are getting your Thailand "facts" from. What is missing from the reds "fight for the poor" campaign however is some real examples of injustice for the lower classes. To borrow a description from the BBC, Tolley's attempt to highlight the issue has little "specific or justified".

I find it very difficult to believe you can't see some of the 'real injustices for the lower classes'.

I mean where do you start. You could look at the minimum wage for a start I suppose. You might also want to look at the distribution of income and resources in thailand. You might want to look at the institutions that favour the wealthy and connected.

Thailand has vast disparities in income between the elites and lower classes. This in itself is a recipe for dissatisfaction and social tension. At the same time Thailand's economy is on the way up and many feel like they are not getting any of the benefits of the growing economy yet they are being slugged by the rapidly increasing cost of living in Thailand.

For some the red shirts represent the only way that they can make a protest and voice their dissatisfaction at the status quo.

It really doesn't matter whether we think the red shirts movement is flawed or doesn't address the real problems of Thailand.

The fact is it gives those that are dissastified an opportunity to protest.

And I sincerely doubt they are going away anytime soon.

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I find it very difficult to believe you can't see some of the 'real injustices for the lower classes'.

I mean where do you start. You could look at the minimum wage for a start I suppose. You might also want to look at the distribution of income and resources in thailand. You might want to look at the institutions that favour the wealthy and connected.

Thailand has vast disparities in income between the elites and lower classes. This in itself is a recipe for dissatisfaction and social tension. At the same time Thailand's economy is on the way up and many feel like they are not getting any of the benefits of the growing economy yet they are being slugged by the rapidly increasing cost of living in Thailand.

For some the red shirts represent the only way that they can make a protest and voice their dissatisfaction at the status quo.

It really doesn't matter whether we think the red shirts movement is flawed or doesn't address the real problems of Thailand.

The fact is it gives those that are dissastified an opportunity to protest.

And I sincerely doubt they are going away anytime soon.

What is the point of supporting a movement that is flawed and doesn't address your problems?

Will changing the power from the "Bangkok elites" to the red shirt up country "elites" solve their problems?

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I find it very difficult to believe you can't see some of the 'real injustices for the lower classes'.

I mean where do you start. You could look at the minimum wage for a start I suppose. You might also want to look at the distribution of income and resources in thailand. You might want to look at the institutions that favour the wealthy and connected.

Thailand has vast disparities in income between the elites and lower classes. This in itself is a recipe for dissatisfaction and social tension. At the same time Thailand's economy is on the way up and many feel like they are not getting any of the benefits of the growing economy yet they are being slugged by the rapidly increasing cost of living in Thailand.

For some the red shirts represent the only way that they can make a protest and voice their dissatisfaction at the status quo.

It really doesn't matter whether we think the red shirts movement is flawed or doesn't address the real problems of Thailand.

The fact is it gives those that are dissastified an opportunity to protest.

And I sincerely doubt they are going away anytime soon.

The problem with the red-shirt movement at this moment is that they lost direction. March - May 2010 was about 'bring Thaksin back', had nothing to do with 'entitlement of the poor', 'democracy'; just plain 'bring Thaksin back'. K. Thaksin c.s. are not better, probably not worse than the current ruling lot.

Improvement are underway, but very, very slowly and will only continue with (a bit of) continued pressure from all sides.

If the pressure is in the form of violent protests, grenade attacks, hate-speeches and the like, it will have the opposite effect. Start saying no when some want to buy your support, cleanup NGO's, be consistent in your goals and demands. Sideline the old 'elite' by starting to ignore them, or sue them if they threaten you. Don't be intimidated by your own people. Sure some may get hurt, those with power will fight back as they always do whatever color they wear.

Remember 'money for nothing and chicks for free' is the title of a song only. Real life is different.

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I find it very difficult to believe you can't see some of the 'real injustices for the lower classes'.

I mean where do you start. You could look at the minimum wage for a start I suppose. You might also want to look at the distribution of income and resources in thailand. You might want to look at the institutions that favour the wealthy and connected.

Thailand has vast disparities in income between the elites and lower classes. This in itself is a recipe for dissatisfaction and social tension. At the same time Thailand's economy is on the way up and many feel like they are not getting any of the benefits of the growing economy yet they are being slugged by the rapidly increasing cost of living in Thailand.

For some the red shirts represent the only way that they can make a protest and voice their dissatisfaction at the status quo.

It really doesn't matter whether we think the red shirts movement is flawed or doesn't address the real problems of Thailand.

The fact is it gives those that are dissastified an opportunity to protest.

And I sincerely doubt they are going away anytime soon.

What is the point of supporting a movement that is flawed and doesn't address your problems?

Will changing the power from the "Bangkok elites" to the red shirt up country "elites" solve their problems?

The gap between rich and poor - a problem which is by no means unique to Thailand - will only effectively be reduced through a solid, non-discriminating education policy. Where is this in the big red manifesto?

For that matter where is increasing the minimum wage in the manifesto? Do they even have one which has remained static for more than a few months?

The red shirts are an answere to Thaksin's problems, not Thailand's.

/edit But at least somebody is out there pushing for a higher minimum wage at least.

Edited by Insight
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I find it very difficult to believe you can't see some of the 'real injustices for the lower classes'.

I mean where do you start. You could look at the minimum wage for a start I suppose. You might also want to look at the distribution of income and resources in thailand. You might want to look at the institutions that favour the wealthy and connected.

Thailand has vast disparities in income between the elites and lower classes. This in itself is a recipe for dissatisfaction and social tension. At the same time Thailand's economy is on the way up and many feel like they are not getting any of the benefits of the growing economy yet they are being slugged by the rapidly increasing cost of living in Thailand.

For some the red shirts represent the only way that they can make a protest and voice their dissatisfaction at the status quo.

It really doesn't matter whether we think the red shirts movement is flawed or doesn't address the real problems of Thailand.

The fact is it gives those that are dissastified an opportunity to protest.

And I sincerely doubt they are going away anytime soon.

A lot of the sentiment you express regarding dissatisfaction amongst the lower classes is i believe to some degree the product of a Western mind projecting its own beliefs in terms of equality and fairness. One of the things that struck me most on first coming to Thailand and meeting with working class people was the lack of resentment they felt to those in society who were better off than them. Whereas in the West it's common for the well off to be envied and disliked simply because of their wealth, to the point of say for example having their new Benz keyed, here in general i found the mood amongst the less well off was one of respect to those in society doing well - and the respect was given irregardless of what unscrupulous means those people had come by their fortune. Now you might argue that the feelings they show on the surface simply hide underlying feelings of resentment and you might be right. I don't happen to think you are though. Most Thai people i have met have an amazing ability to not question why they are where they are in society and to accept that others are higher up than them. That's just the way they accept it is and they simply get on with living the life they were born to.

The reds would have you believe something totally different of course. They need the cause to be seen to be fighting for something honourable and worthy, and the poor serve that purpose very nicely.

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I find it very difficult to believe you can't see some of the 'real injustices for the lower classes'.

I mean where do you start. You could look at the minimum wage for a start I suppose. You might also want to look at the distribution of income and resources in thailand. You might want to look at the institutions that favour the wealthy and connected.

Thailand has vast disparities in income between the elites and lower classes. This in itself is a recipe for dissatisfaction and social tension. At the same time Thailand's economy is on the way up and many feel like they are not getting any of the benefits of the growing economy yet they are being slugged by the rapidly increasing cost of living in Thailand.

For some the red shirts represent the only way that they can make a protest and voice their dissatisfaction at the status quo.

It really doesn't matter whether we think the red shirts movement is flawed or doesn't address the real problems of Thailand.

The fact is it gives those that are dissastified an opportunity to protest.

And I sincerely doubt they are going away anytime soon.

A lot of the sentiment you express regarding dissatisfaction amongst the lower classes is i believe to some degree the product of a Western mind projecting its own beliefs in terms of equality and fairness. One of the things that struck me most on first coming to Thailand and meeting with working class people was the lack of resentment they felt to those in society who were better off than them. Whereas in the West it's common for the well off to be envied and disliked simply because of their wealth, to the point of say for example having their new Benz keyed, here in general i found the mood amongst the less well off was one of respect to those in society doing well - and the respect was given irregardless of what unscrupulous means those people had come by their fortune. Now you might argue that the feelings they show on the surface simply hide underlying feelings of resentment and you might be right. I don't happen to think you are though. Most Thai people i have met have an amazing ability to not question why they are where they are in society and to accept that others are higher up

than them. That's just the way they accept it is and they simply get on with living the life they were born to.

The reds would have you believe something totally different of course. They need the cause to be seen to be fighting for something honourable and worthy, and the poor serve that purpose very nicely.

I am sorry I can't buy that line at all.

The happy peasant is a myth.

There are many in Thailand who are deeply dissatisfied with the status quo and are fed up with being shafted.

The red shirts are to an extent feeding of this dissatisfaction.

Again I reiterate it doesn't matter that the red shirts are being manipulated by others who may have no interest in real change.

This is one of the first times that many down the bottom of the totem poll have had an opportunity to voice their grievances.

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I find it very difficult to believe you can't see some of the 'real injustices for the lower classes'.

I mean where do you start. You could look at the minimum wage for a start I suppose. You might also want to look at the distribution of income and resources in thailand. You might want to look at the institutions that favour the wealthy and connected.

Thailand has vast disparities in income between the elites and lower classes. This in itself is a recipe for dissatisfaction and social tension. At the same time Thailand's economy is on the way up and many feel like they are not getting any of the benefits of the growing economy yet they are being slugged by the rapidly increasing cost of living in Thailand.

For some the red shirts represent the only way that they can make a protest and voice their dissatisfaction at the status quo.

It really doesn't matter whether we think the red shirts movement is flawed or doesn't address the real problems of Thailand.

The fact is it gives those that are dissastified an opportunity to protest.

And I sincerely doubt they are going away anytime soon.

What is the point of supporting a movement that is flawed and doesn't address your problems?

Will changing the power from the "Bangkok elites" to the red shirt up country "elites" solve their problems?

The gap between rich and poor - a problem which is by no means unique to Thailand - will only effectively be reduced through a solid, non-discriminating education policy. Where is this in the big red manifesto?

For that matter where is increasing the minimum wage in the manifesto? Do they even have one which has remained static for more than a few months?

The red shirts are an answere to Thaksin's problems, not Thailand's.

/edit But at least somebody is out there pushing for a higher minimum wage at least.

You really are missing the point here.

The red shirts just happen to be the only real organisation that has given the lower classes a voice in anything.

The fact that they are being manipulated is irrelevant.

Of course a better education system would be a start but this is just one small part of the equation. Reform of the military, judiciary, police,political system are all things that need to happen.

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The red shirts just happen to be the only real organisation that has given the lower classes a voice in anything.

The fact that they are being manipulated is irrelevant.

The UDD was a real organisation, set up with one goal: 'bring back Thaksin'. Luckily it lost it's head.

The lower classes have no voice, except when K. Thaksin c.s. tell them what to say. To write 'being manipulated is irrelevant' is hilarious. It means whatever their original goal, someone else is now pushing and driving. The simple reds (no offense meant) are used as cannon fodder. UDD leaders like K. Jatuporn only shouted 'till our last drop of blood' and surrendered. It was the poor, lower ranks again who did the bleeding.

Edited by rubl
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The red shirts just happen to be the only real organisation that has given the lower classes a voice in anything.

The fact that they are being manipulated is irrelevant.

The UDD was a real organisation, set up with one goal: 'bring back Thaksin'. Luckily it lost it's head.

The lower classes have no voice, except when K. Thaksin c.s. tell them what to say. To write 'being manipulated is irrelevant' is hilarious. It means whatever their original goal, someone else is now pushing and driving. The simple reds (no offense meant) are used as cannon fodder. UDD leaders like K. Jatuporn only shouted 'till our last drop of blood' and surrendered. It was the poor, lower ranks again who did the bleeding.

It might be hilarious to you but for the first time many who feel they are disenfranchised feel like they have a say in something.

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The red shirts just happen to be the only real organisation that has given the lower classes a voice in anything.

The fact that they are being manipulated is irrelevant.

The UDD was a real organisation, set up with one goal: 'bring back Thaksin'. Luckily it lost it's head.

The lower classes have no voice, except when K. Thaksin c.s. tell them what to say. To write 'being manipulated is irrelevant' is hilarious. It means whatever their original goal, someone else is now pushing and driving. The simple reds (no offense meant) are used as cannon fodder. UDD leaders like K. Jatuporn only shouted 'till our last drop of blood' and surrendered. It was the poor, lower ranks again who did the bleeding.

It might be hilarious to you but for the first time many who feel they are disenfranchised feel like they have a say in something.

Again: 'being manipulated is irrelevant' is hilarious.

The original red-shirt movement had and has serious issues which need to be tackled. Being manipulated by the UDD and K. Thaksin meant their issues were pushed to the background. They may think they have a say in things, UDD leader speeches for months took care of that type of indoctrination. Do they really have a say in something ? I do not think so. 'Here's your 200 baht, now shut up and do home. Leave things to your betters'. Being manipulated is irrelevant, you forgot 'in this fight for democracy'.

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The red shirts just happen to be the only real organisation that has given the lower classes a voice in anything.

The fact that they are being manipulated is irrelevant.

The UDD was a real organisation, set up with one goal: 'bring back Thaksin'. Luckily it lost it's head.

The lower classes have no voice, except when K. Thaksin c.s. tell them what to say. To write 'being manipulated is irrelevant' is hilarious. It means whatever their original goal, someone else is now pushing and driving. The simple reds (no offense meant) are used as cannon fodder. UDD leaders like K. Jatuporn only shouted 'till our last drop of blood' and surrendered. It was the poor, lower ranks again who did the bleeding.

It might be hilarious to you but for the first time many who feel they are disenfranchised feel like they have a say in something.

Again: 'being manipulated is irrelevant' is hilarious.

The original red-shirt movement had and has serious issues which need to be tackled. Being manipulated by the UDD and K. Thaksin meant their issues were pushed to the background. They may think they have a say in things, UDD leader speeches for months took care of that type of indoctrination. Do they really have a say in something ? I do not think so. 'Here's your 200 baht, now shut up and do home. Leave things to your betters'. Being manipulated is irrelevant, you forgot 'in this fight for democracy'.

I am not disagreeing with what you are saying about the red shirt movement.

Read my previous posts.

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The red shirts just happen to be the only real organisation that has given the lower classes a voice in anything.

The fact that they are being manipulated is irrelevant.

The UDD was a real organisation, set up with one goal: 'bring back Thaksin'. Luckily it lost it's head.

The lower classes have no voice, except when K. Thaksin c.s. tell them what to say. To write 'being manipulated is irrelevant' is hilarious. It means whatever their original goal, someone else is now pushing and driving. The simple reds (no offense meant) are used as cannon fodder. UDD leaders like K. Jatuporn only shouted 'till our last drop of blood' and surrendered. It was the poor, lower ranks again who did the bleeding.

It might be hilarious to you but for the first time many who feel they are disenfranchised feel like they have a say in something.

The innocent poor people need a different platform. They should disengage from the UDD terrorists, as the UDD are only pretending to be "fighting" for the poor's interest; the reality is that the UDD is fighting for Thaksin's interests. The poor have been brainwashed. They need to realize that Abhisit is not their enemy and is genuinely working to make changes to improve their lives.

Edited by hyperdimension
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The happy peasant is a myth.

It is not a myth. All you need to do is speak the language and take yourself off on a trip to a rural village. You will find the people by and large some of the most happy-go-lucky friendly welcoming sorts you could care to meet. They live simple lives and many of them work very hard - and like most people in life they dream of having more. But that desire doesn't consume them and nor does it manifest itself in the form of anger or resentment. The Western way of looking to blame others for ones own troubles and problems does not in my experience exist here to the same degree. People are proud and take responsibility for their own families. They are used to surviving off their own backs without government hand outs and look within their families in times of need.

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The happy peasant is a myth.

It is not a myth. All you need to do is speak the language and take yourself off on a trip to a rural village. You will find the people by and large some of the most happy-go-lucky friendly welcoming sorts you could care to meet. They live simple lives and many of them work very hard - and like most people in life they dream of having more. But that desire doesn't consume them and nor does it manifest itself in the form of anger or resentment. The Western way of looking to blame others for ones own troubles and problems does not in my experience exist here to the same degree. People are proud and take responsibility for their own families. They are used to surviving off their own backs without government hand outs and look within their families in times of need.

For sure. My wife's Mom LOVES the village and wouldn't live anywhere else. Luckily, that includes my new home! :whistling:

I love the people in the village. I don't buy things for them, but I get treated like a true friend. With kindness and respect. And I know they would do anything to help me if I needed it. Anything. I always look forward to our trips there...just wish Mom's house had AC!!!!

It's the red leaders who are stirring things up. Can things be improved? Absolutely. But violence is not the way. And it needs to be sincere, not at the request of some fugitive billionaire and his band of elites...or I mean poor folks who just happen to drive BMWs.

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