Thai Court Drops 3G Bombshell

[selftaopath]

Love him or loathe him, you can bet this mess would probably have been solved if Thaksin was around.

They have been running around in circles saying that Thaksin damaged the country. One can hardly say that this mess is in the benefit of the "country" can one?

Thaksin caused this whole bloody mess...

Thaksin blocked the development of oppositon Telco's because he didn't want to sink money into building networks for Shintel while he was trying to sell it... and he didn't want other opperators building networks better than his while it was on the market... 2 years after he sold it, the governement is still trying to work out the mess (not helped by his family/'associates' who are still in there protecting his remaining interests)...

Rival networks don't want to throw money into GSM, and then throw more into 3G when it does arrive... EDGE just meets the 3G speed requirement, but is nothing like UMTS for speed, there is no global standards so different vendor equipment can not interwork... No serious development has been put into GSM by vendors for almost a decade...

THAT is the reason Thailand is 5 years behind Malaysia, and 8 years behind the other developed Asian countries...

Daewoo,

20 Years International Telecommunication Engineering Professional.

Couldn't agree more my main man Daewoo. I've also done a lot of telecom/IT work in many places around the globe.

This shows what happens when governments are in the business of running businesses instead of being in the business of governing. Government bureacracies get hung up on corruption and infighting. Businesses focus on service delivery and profits.

Thailand could easily get a double bang for the buck, if the government would invest in basic infrastructure like improving the country's rail network and at the same time, lay in in a large inter-city fiber optic network. Then they could have lease these resources out to private bidding companies, both for rail transport and network backhaul.

Instead the government bureaucrats operate like little tin-pot dictators putting power and self-interest above everything else.

And what do the citizens get? Crappy, slow and sometimes unsafe rail transport (albeit inexpensive). Crappy, slow and expensive network connectivity.

Thanks for your post. Isn't it disheartening that NO ONE in Land of Scams who has power really cares or would initiate change?

[Rachawadee]

THIS IS THAILAND. Don't like, then go home.

Learn to listen to criticism. They say this because they love our country and not that they hate it. They care for it as much as we do. That's why they show concern. We listen and try to correct our mistakes. Telling them to go home isn't the way to argue or defend your point. We Thais should start questioning our rediculous laws rather than nod our heads and say "This is the Thai way". Too much brainwashing in our educational system makes us look like robots. Much more, they probably pay income tax as compared to 80% of our workforce who are exemp from paying taxes because they earn less than 20K a month.

We should look to the outside world and see what we are doing wrong. That's the only way we can truly move forward.

[metisdead]

THIS IS THAILAND. Don't like, then go home.

Learn to listen to criticism. They say this because they love our country and not that they hate it. They care for it as much as we do. That's why they show concern. We listen and try to correct our mistakes. Telling them to go home isn't the way to argue or defend your point. We Thais should start questioning our rediculous laws rather than nod our heads and say "This is the Thai way". Too much brainwashing in our educational system makes us look like robots. Much more, they probably pay income tax as compared to 80% of our workforce who are exemp from paying taxes because they earn less than 20K a month.

We should look to the outside world and see what we are doing wrong. That's the only way we can truly move forward.

Excellent response!

[Just1Voice]

THIS IS THAILAND. Don't like, then go home.

Learn to listen to criticism. They say this because they love our country and not that they hate it. They care for it as much as we do. That's why they show concern. We listen and try to correct our mistakes. Telling them to go home isn't the way to argue or defend your point. We Thais should start questioning our rediculous laws rather than nod our heads and say "This is the Thai way". Too much brainwashing in our educational system makes us look like robots. Much more, they probably pay income tax as compared to 80% of our workforce who are exemp from paying taxes because they earn less than 20K a month.

We should look to the outside world and see what we are doing wrong. That's the only way we can truly move forward.

You just joined my Very Short list of Thai who actually impress me with their attitudes and abilities to think "outside the box", or more appropriately, "outside the Thai borders". A couple of thousand more like you, and this country might actually become what it's capable of being.

Edited September 20, 2010 by Just1Voice

[elcent]

what comes first? 3G or a nuclear power plant?

[hammered]

It is interesting now how the NTC are putting this as vested interests of the bureaucracy versus the good for all Thai people. This one isnt just about ponmcing around on your smart phone (lots of Demo voters will be upset if this doesnt go through) but is more about providing internet access to poorer areas which will have educatuional importnace in the increasing technological future. If this gets set back by the courts, it will mean a 3 plus year delay according to industry insiders.

Apart from the affect this will have on investment it will also further disadvntage Thailand in terms of its peopel resource development vis-a-vis other countires and Thauiland has been a country waiting to make the next step forward in development without doing so for a long time. Other countries have not sat still.

Another aspect is that this government which is meant to be the government that can work with the bureaucracy has been shown to have littel control over it. Bureaucratic interests are now allowed to come before the good of the country in not only challenging thibng si n courts but in making all the outrageous threats they did yesterday. It will be interesting to see whether the future or the past triumphs in this one, and in many ways it will be indicative of how other battles will be played out between modernization and protecting a totally outdated status quo. If these battles go the wrong way, it will increasingly look as if Thailand has a very unstable future as vested but totsally outdated interests vie to prevent any form of modernization the country needs

[SamritT]

The management of TOT & CAT have the obligation to protect its interest. If they do not act to stop the auction, they could face disciplinary action or even jail sentence for not doing their job. I don't blame them.

[Payboy]

THIS IS THAILAND. Don't like, then go home.

This should become Thailand's new tourist and foreign investment slogans.

I actually prefer - Welcome to THAILAND - Cambodia without 3G!

[JetsetBkk]

The management of TOT & CAT have the obligation to protect its interest. If they do not act to stop the auction, they could face disciplinary action or even jail sentence for not doing their job. I don't blame them.

[Lannig]

Guys, I don't know how much you've been using 3G when in your home country ("biological home" should I write, since many of us rightfully consider Thailand as their homes after so many years), but don't hope for the Holy Graal of Browsing Speed unless you live in the heart of Bangkok or one of the few other big cities (and even so).

Building an infrastructure that gives a decent and reliable 3G connectivity to most areas of a country means enormous investments and completely revised capacity planning of the telco's network backbones. I wouldn't hold my breath until this becomes a reality in Thailand... especially considering that it's still far from being achieved in many western developed countries. Widespread 3G also puts a huge strain on IP network infrastructures, exchange points and international links. Those already are under pressure in Thailand.

Paying for 3G is one thing, having your mobile actually hooked to a stable 3G connection is another and having significantly better network speeds than when using EDGE is yet another (especially during peak hours). This, even in countries usually considered as having an "advanced" telecom infrastructure. I consider 3G one of the biggest ripoffs of recent history from telco operators.

[SkyHigh]

Guys, I don't know how much you've been using 3G when in your home country ("biological home" should I write, since many of us rightfully consider Thailand as their homes after so many years), but don't hope for the Holy Graal of Browsing Speed unless you live in the heart of Bangkok or one of the few other big cities (and even so).

Building an infrastructure that gives a decent and reliable 3G connectivity to most areas of a country means enormous investments and completely revised capacity planning of the telco's network backbones. I wouldn't hold my breath until this becomes a reality in Thailand... especially considering that it's still far from being achieved in many western developed countries. Widespread 3G also puts a huge strain on IP network infrastructures, exchange points and international links. Those already are under pressure in Thailand.

Paying for 3G is one thing, having your mobile actually hooked to a stable 3G connection is another and having significantly better network speeds than when using EDGE is yet another (especially during peak hours). This, even in countries usually considered as having an "advanced" telecom infrastructure. I consider 3G one of the biggest ripoffs of recent history from telco operators.

If the price is too high, compare to its quality. No one will pay for it. And if no people using it, operators will have never cover what they pay for license.

Currently, there's about 10% of entire population having an access to HighSpeed internet. About 55-60% from this group is in BKK. The rest spread thru out major city.

NTC makes tremendous effort fixing this issue. They are making sure in 3 years, by 3G, hi-speed network will cover 80% of the population. This is on the list for whoever get to license must achieve.

Thailand is unlike other country where people live scatter thru out the land. Majority of Thais who use this kind of service live in the city. This is a plus for operator. They'll have a relative low upfront invest.

Early phase of 3G will never come close to what it should be. But in few years, everyone has a hope it'll be better, eventually.

If everything goes well, Thailand can also move to 3.9G or 4G. This doesnt require new cell planning.

Let alone main international trunks. TOT & CAT can take care of that easily.

Summary. Thailand must go 3G. There is no reason not doing it.

Edited September 21, 2010 by SkyHigh

[Lannig]

NTC makes tremendous effort fixing this issue. They are making sure in 3 years, by 3G, hi-speed network will cover 80% of the population. This is on the list for whoever get to license must achieve.

I shall believe this when I see it ... really.

I don't have figures at hand, but I doubt that Bangkok+Chiang Mai+Nakorn Sawan+Korat(+Phuket+Pattaya presumably)+maybe a couple other main cities account for 80% of the Thai population.

If everything goes well, Thailand can also move to 3.9G or 4G. This doesnt require new cell planning.

It will, however, require massive capacity upgrades of backbones again.

Let alone main international trunks. TOT & CAT can take care of that easily.

Really? ask TOT ADSL customers what they think of the international bandwidth they get today already. When hordes of 3G mobile users will hammer the same congested pipes, I can only imagine what it will look like.

Summary. Thailand must go 3G. There is no reason not doing it.

I haven't challenged this. I just wanted to somewhat cool down expectations.

[Deeral]

Back in the 90s i thought my dial up and web site were cool!but that was in the 90s........

if you want a business now you need a good internet connection and 3G is a major option especially for smaller businesses - it will have a MASSIVE effect of those people - mainly Thai who want to start a businessas the Bkk Post said - this is bas big as Maptaphut.

looking at the events of just the last few days does NOT give you a good perspective - the situation is that the governing elite have two problems! - they want to ensue THEY get the lions share of any revenue2 - They have NO IDEA WHATSOEVER -of what the internet or 3G mean to business - this is born out by the comments of the judge who ventured the opinion (which incidentally seems way out of his jurisdiction) that it would have little or no effect on Thai business RUBBISH!!!

They are shooting their own citizens in the foot. (Shooting ones own citizens seems to be a National past-time of Thailand).

[Deeral]

THis debacle has moved me to song...........

There's no 3G inThailand

There's no 3G inThailand

There's no 3G inThailand

The courts said you can't have it

Oh yes! the restof the world has got 3G

Oh yes! the rest of the world has got 3G

Oh yes! the rest of the world has got 3G

but you can'theave it here in Thailand

my brothers and my sisters havegot 3G

my brothers and my sisters have got 3G

my brothers andmy sisters have got 3G

but they all live in Cambodia

KimJong-il has got 3G

He's got internetand downloads in his hands

He's got internetand downloads in his hands

Oh yes! Kim Jong-il has got 3G

Even inVentiane, they got 3G

Even in Ventiane,they got 3G

In all corners of the world they got 3G

Except forhere in Thailand.

Cambodia andNorth Korea have got 3G

Indonesia andMalaysia have got 3G

even East Timorhas got 3G

The whole world's got 3G.....

exceptfor Thailand!

perhaps if one broke out into a song like this every time you saw a CAT employee or Judge or whatever it might help them pull their fingers out!

Edited September 24, 2010 by Deeral

[Deeral]

A recent conversation with someone at AIS head office, gave some insight into TOT's attitude to 3G.

Apparently AIS are no longer supplying 3G cards for mobile phones as they can't get any guarantee from TOT about the future of their contracts in 5 years time.

So they can't/won't invest in the necessary technology to expand the service.

THey are continuing the 3G internet services.

THey WILL be offering 3G internet in Sri Racha....but will not risk the capital on Pattaya - go figure??

Apparently a high-ranking TOT official has said that he can't see any need for 3G in Thailand as it is a nation of farmwrs who couldn't possibly have an use for this technology.

(apart of course from organizing political rallies etc)

Edited January 5, 2011 by Deeral

[ThiagoBras]

I have had True 3G for a year, works great. Works in most major cities in Thailand. Stop the bitching and switch to True lol.

You've been PAYING for True 3G for a year.

What they haven't told you is that it is just going across the 2.5G network.

WIN

[Deeral]

I have had True 3G for a year, works great. Works in most major cities in Thailand. Stop the bitching and switch to True lol.

You've been PAYING for True 3G for a year.

What they haven't told you is that it is just going across the 2.5G network.

WIN

Only 3 in Pattaya etc - it then switches to 2G in the rest of the countryTrue now claim to have 3G in Sfri Racha and Pattaya - and presumably BKK?

[MaiChai]

Actually 3G uses 2G or specifically 2.5G (2G with gprs). The radical change is the signaling between the handset and basestation, which gives the performance boost, plus enhancements such as hsdpa, etc. Telco companies (Nokia/Siemens/Alcatel/etc) have not been selling pure 2g equipment for a about 10 years. As i said all you need to support 3g is 2.5g infrastruct plus the 3g basestations. Most basestations in Thailand are probably 3g but have been setup to run 2.5g gsm mode only since they dont have the right to run 3g

The

[Deeral]

What about SIM cards?

As AIS won't "invest" It looks to me as if they aren't capable of 3g

Edited January 5, 2011 by Deeral

[roamer]

Guys, I don't know how much you've been using 3G when in your home country ("biological home" should I write, since many of us rightfully consider Thailand as their homes after so many years), but don't hope for the Holy Graal of Browsing Speed unless you live in the heart of Bangkok or one of the few other big cities (and even so).

Building an infrastructure that gives a decent and reliable 3G connectivity to most areas of a country means enormous investments and completely revised capacity planning of the telco's network backbones. I wouldn't hold my breath until this becomes a reality in Thailand... especially considering that it's still far from being achieved in many western developed countries. Widespread 3G also puts a huge strain on IP network infrastructures, exchange points and international links. Those already are under pressure in Thailand.

Paying for 3G is one thing, having your mobile actually hooked to a stable 3G connection is another and having significantly better network speeds than when using EDGE is yet another (especially during peak hours). This, even in countries usually considered as having an "advanced" telecom infrastructure. I consider 3G one of the biggest ripoffs of recent history from telco operators.

Totally agree. In the UK I'm with the network that is said to have the best 3G coverage but even in London I struggle to maintain a good connection, noticed also when roaming in Europe that 3G leaves a lot to be desired.

[tw25rw]

I was using i-mobile 3G in Bangkok during my recent trip and it was excellent. Shame it's only in Bangkok..

[MaiChai]

I was using i-mobile 3G in Bangkok during my recent trip and it was excellent. Shame it's only in Bangkok..

This was offerred supposedly at 599 baht per month, although we were charged 1600 baht (no excessive usage) and no one could explain the difference. We then cancelled and they started sending letters for recovery of unpaid sim card guarentee service, which was acruing alot of interest every month, and the only way we could stop this was to pay up a further 1500 odd baht. So our usage for a single month, which should have been 599 baht ended up costing over 3000 baht. when we sorted it out, there was another unhappy customer behind us with exactly the same issue! So the reason why this service is so fast is because no one is using it! Welcome to Thailand government run telephony!

On a positive note, the True 3g service on 850mhz on prepay has been a happier (and much cheaper) experience! 3g on 850mhz is non standard, so you need a compatible phone (meaning a Chinese phone badged with a Thai brand such as imobile or wellcome where they have tweaked the radio to run on the non standard frequency).

Edited January 6, 2011 by MaiChai

[CheGuava]

The management of TOT & CAT have the obligation to protect its interest. If they do not act to stop the auction, they could face disciplinary action or even jail sentence for not doing their job. I don't blame them.

Me neither. However when the result is years of stagnation and hindering progress and development of Thailand'd information infrastructure, then higher powers than TOT and CAT (e.g.: the government) should take charge and lead.

The word 'government' implies that they should govern. Otherwise they would be called the 'maipenrai-ment', waiting for the courts to sort it out 10 years from now, when the rest of Asia is on 5G or 6G.

Edited January 7, 2011 by CheGuava

[Deeral]

I'm in a "3G area" in thailand and use it (pre-pay) as a back up to my ADSL only - the problem is that regardless of how good/bad it is, it has no customer service and top-up is nigh-on impossible without visiting on of their own (AIS) offices.On a recent visit to UK I invested in a £G mobile connection for my laptop and had an almost fault-free experience throughout the country. The 2 systems are like chalk and cheese.I've also pointed out that AIS told me that the investment for 3G was prohibitive as they have no idea if they will be operating anything in 5 years time.

.

I've said before their is also an underlying political motive here as the govt is spending a lot of time suppressing the so-called "Social Media" - the only alternative that political opposition and dissent has in Thailand to the mainstream media which is run by the army and government and its sympathizers.

.The "high powers" at TOT and CAT HAVE taken charge - it is their aim to maintain a monopoly on the situation and thus their own personal fortunes and fiefdoms - Dtac etc would have been an outside operator and the % revenue for TOT et al would have been down to about 6% instead of I think about 20% at present .It is simple a matter of the power elite maintaining their grip on business AND the population.I still say that the attitude of the "high-ranking official" says it all - why would a nation of farmers want 3G - so they can organise?

Edited January 8, 2011 by Deeral

[animatic]

THIS IS THAILAND. Don't like, then go home.

Learn to listen to criticism. They say this because they love our country and not that they hate it. They care for it as much as we do. That's why they show concern. We listen and try to correct our mistakes. Telling them to go home isn't the way to argue or defend your point. We Thais should start questioning our rediculous laws rather than nod our heads and say "This is the Thai way". Too much brainwashing in our educational system makes us look like robots. Much more, they probably pay income tax as compared to 80% of our workforce who are exemp from paying taxes because they earn less than 20K a month.

We should look to the outside world and see what we are doing wrong. That's the only way we can truly move forward.

Rachawadee, thank you for a thoughtful response.

Most valid 'non-bar-stool ' based critiques of things like this by foreigners

ARE based on wanting the best for most Thais. Not to make all Thais lose face.

This is a classic case where a few Thais are hurting the majority of Thais,

and that a foreigner is motivated to decry this, shows concern for the majority of Thais.

Westerners tend to be much more direct and to the point, which is not the Thai way,

but we need to accept that most westerners can NOT adopt the Thai way like a Thai,

but that doesn't invalidate their opinions, ideas, nor caring, either.

[Deeral]

Westerners come form countries which despite all their faults have democratic governments that function to some extent. This is the result of centuries of struggle backed by empirical critical and logical argument - by the people - I think it is self-evident that the powerful elite in Thailand only care for a country that maintains a social status quo. A status quo in which a small number of people hold the strings of power and wealth. Whereas these people may argue amongst themselves about who should be top dog they show vitally no concern for the welfare or enfranchisement of the rank and file Thai people.The ongoing 3G saga is a symptom of this attitude by the upper echelons of power in Thailand and is part of a comprehensive range of measures designed to maintain the status quo - I find it hard to see this as caring for their country - more as caring for themselves. In the meantime, foreigners who have experience of Thailand, whether or not they live here have EVERY RIGHT to voice and opinion - so long as it has it's roots in logical though and reason.

[Deeral]

Westerners come form countries which despite all their faults have democratic governments that function to some extent. This is the result of centuries of struggle backed by empirical critical and logical argument - by the people - I think it is self-evident that the powerful elite in Thailand only care for a country that maintains a social status quo. A status quo in which a small number of people hold the strings of power and wealth. Whereas these people may argue amongst themselves about who should be top dog they show vitally no concern for the welfare or enfranchisement of the rank and file Thai people.The ongoing 3G saga is a symptom of this attitude by the upper echelons of power in Thailand and is part of a comprehensive range of measures designed to maintain the status quo - I find it hard to see this as caring for their country - more as caring for themselves. In the meantime, foreigners who have experience of Thailand, whether or not they live here have EVERY RIGHT to voice and opinion - so long as it has it's roots in logical though and reason.

PS - SamritT on the other hand is the absolute antithesis of this - the views expressed are those of a full-time troll and have no basis in thought reason or fact.I would advise everyone to realise that this poster only posts trolls - treat accordingly

[dryfitfan]

If you look at the trend in handphones and how local people will practically auction off their homes to buy the latest, coolest smartphone which require ever and ever more connectivity to the internet, they are basically hand held computers . What better way to keep thailand up in the index of internet knowledgable and using countries at virtually no price. No government education to bring in computers to the classroom etc, all good ideas but way more expensive.

I keep looking at people with theses amazing smartphones that cant do half the things they were designed to do. Good for looking good and texting its like that old nokia fad phone that really didnt do anything special only it can if people just learn and have the connection to do it.

you wont stop them from buying the phones but I guess this is the best way to stop them from using them.

[Deeral]

THe phone shops all stocked 3G phones partly because about 6 months ago it looked like 3G was a certainty.

now thanks to government skulduggery, incompetence or interference - take your pick - 3G is shelved for the foreseeable future and if it ever comes will be run for the benefit of the power elite not its customers.

Yes- sure there are a lot f "smart-phones" etc on the market which an connect wirelessly to the net and use Edge etc, but they are only being part used here and sales are much less than in other countries.I personally have differed buying an iphone until there is a satisfactory nationwide 3G network and many of my thai colleagues seem to have the same attitude.

As with most businesses in Thailand the only criteria is how much use it is to the elite - do they make money, will they keep control of the media and the masses? - customer service and the needs of the Nation take second place to this.

[swillowbee]

... to add to the acrimony about Thailand's 3rd World, Sub-Saharan African culture, this is the best they are capable of doing ... with all the incompetence, systemic corruption, endemic illiteracy and overwhelming greed by the roughly 400 in-bred families that control this country, this really is it ... the very best for which Thais may hope ... all the commentary here about what they should do, and could do, and what is best for the country is academic ... irrelevant ... Thailand has arrived at the pinnacle of its capability ... let them be, for God's sake ... Thailand is now doing everything it can do to catch up to Cambodia.

Edited January 18, 2011 by swillowbee