Beaten Up By Restaurant Owner Because I'M A Vegetarian

[gonenative]

I'm still in disbelief about what happened to my wife and I right in front of Tapae Gate in Chiang Mai tonight. We went out for a late dinner at around 10pm and, being unfamiliar with the area, found ourselves on walking street (on a Friday when it's empty) without many options but the one open Thai restauarant called [removed]. We sat down as the only customers and ordered two vegetarian dishes, and said very clearly (in Thai by my wife who is Thai and well familiar with my condition) that my body has an intollerance for pork and we'd like our food to be vegetarian. When our Tom Yum came out we noticed it had a beef brothe. We pointed this out to the waitress who acknowledged this to be true then (seemingly kindly) change the dish for us. Having had many previous reactions to unwanted pork in my food while in Thailand, I asked my wife to confirm they didn't reuse the same vegetables in the new dish (which has happened to me before), and my wife very politely asked this. What followed is that the seemingly kind watress informed the proprietor that we were being picky (which we were but as politely as possible, only twice, and only due to health reasons) which led to the proprietor coming to our table to tell off my wife using all sorts of Thai swear words and name calling. This was incomprehensible to me since nothing rude had preceeded and anyway everything was already cleared up and we were happily eating our meal. My first reaction was just to get the hel_l out of dodge and I walked out and stood in front of the restaurant. My wife stayed behind to pay the bill, although she made the mistake of trying to reduce the price to only the vegetarian versions (which we didn't eat anyway due to the brewing confrontation). This inflamed the owners' anger even more and at that point they and the staff were physically blocking my wife from leaving the restaurant. I re-entered to pull her out next to me at which point the fat owner blocked the doorway. He then pushed my chest as to thrust me backwards into the restaurant. He had clenched fists and a face like he was ready to pummle me. I called to my wife to phone the police and one of the staff apparently pulled the fat owner back. (All this just because we wanted vegetarian food!) We were offering to pay the full price for the food at that point (both versions) but they still weren't letting us leave because we "threatened" to call the police. My wife did manage to call the police. After a half hour or so, when the police still hadn't arrived, and the fat owner apparently had some time to calm down, he simply told us to pay the full price and go which we did. After heading to the guest house and to our room, locking the door behind us, and calming our fear a bit, we headed to the police station because we were still scared. The police simply said, "why are you here? it's done and you are fine".

We were not anyplace seedy -- we were just on walking street in Chiang Mai, looking for a peaceful meal. Why did this happen to us?

Edited September 18, 2010 by eek
Restaurant name removed - eek

[spongeman]

Those pesky veggies. Always causing trouble.

[onnut]

That's not on at all, maybe last straw or something.

The way you wrote this though sounds like you left your wife inside with an angry man and you waited outside. If true, that's a bit off I think.

I would of made sure my wife was out before me.

[greytown]

The thread title is a bit misleading. You weren't beaten up were you? Sounds like a misunderstanding that escalated too far, but no one was beaten up.

Edited September 17, 2010 by greytown

[moe666]

You can't be native if you don't eat meat

[F4UCorsair]

Without commenting on the actual event and rights/wrongs of the owner, the police reaction was exactly the same at it would be in Australia. Nobody hurt, just a bit of rough and tumble verbal, don't go back, and they would think you were wasting their time.

[YTP]

You can't be native if you don't eat meat

Agreed. Chiang Mai is pork city, by the way.

What kind of intolerance do you have for pork, anyway?

You said you didn't want beef broth, so... are you simply intolerant to meat?

[betheresoon]

I understand your frustration. My ex-girlfriend is a vegetarian and would always insist on a non-meat base broth in her food when ever we would eat at a restaurant. I also thought she was picky since I am not a vegetarian. Maybe calling ahead before eating out may be of help!

[kurnell]

You claim to be vegetarian, yet you had a beef with the restaurant owner? Sorry, I'll go now.

Edited September 18, 2010 by kurnell

[Thailand]

Seems to me you ordered what you wanted, did not get what you ordered.

Maybe should have talked directly with the owner as soon as you realised they had made a mistake.

Looks like owner over reacted, probably because his business is going down the tubes because of the current situation and perhaps his bad attitude.

You have voted with your feet, you won't be going back and maybe a few others who have read the thread will think twice before patronizing the restaurant.

[jazzbo]

This all reminds me of the following:

McDonald's To Settle Suits On Beef Tallow In French Fries

Published The New York Times: March 9, 2002

The McDonald's Corporation plans to issue an apology and pay $10 million to vegetarian and religious groups for using beef flavoring in its French fries. The action is part of a proposed settlement of lawsuits charging that the company misled consumers...

http://www.nytimes.c...ench-fries.html

The plaintiffs argued that as McDonald claimed to use only vegetable oil the fries were in fact vegetarian. I always wondered -- if your were a REAL vegetarian -- what were you doing in a McDonald's in the first place?

BTW aside from any touristy / farang type vegetarian restaurants, if you see a sign with the Thai letters 'JA' in any town that is a sign for Thai-style vegetarian but they can go through A LOT of palm oil.

Edited September 18, 2010 by jazzbo

[canuckamuck]

In a Buddhist country you would think that there would be some sympathy for the needs of the vegetarian. Of course the police won't get involved, but posting here was the right thing to do. At least I would expect they will lose a little business over this. I am not a vegetarian, but aggressive or moody business owners are low life forms.

[CMX]

I have a friend whose wife is fish intolerant. But to explain that even a TOUCH (let alone broth) of fish makes her violently ill is difficult in many parts of the world. Some think that if she orders shellfish, fish broth is OK. I realize that you were with few options at the time, but it may well be that some "vegetarian" dishes are offered here in restaurants where management is unaware of the importance of the distinction.

But if you are to be in town longer and since you have the advantage of a Thai speaking wife, doubtless a solution in future here in Thailand would be for simply to explain that ALL meats, including broths, make you seriously ill. She could mention that Ram Hospital is too expensive.

Better yet, there are a number of strictly vegetarian restaurants here in Chiang Mai, so many that you have to sort them out by "class."

The site on the next line lists some popular restaurants in town - scroll down for vegetarian.

www.chiangmainews.com/ecmn/viewfa.php?id=2607

The owner was atypical and your experience rare as much as unfortunate. As for police response time, I have no knowledge, but it cannot have helped you that there was none.

[Puwa]

Amazing how quickly a simple night out can go wrong, but congratulations on avoiding any real violence, with all those kitchen knives just an arm's length away. You should describe exactly which restaurant it was, so others can avoid it. Unfortunately, when eating out the only safe option for strict vegetarians is to go to restaurants that expressly serve veg food. Other places are likely to cut corners, which may be ok for some diners, but not for others, such as those with health concerns. This is a good illustration of the difference in how locals and foreigners perceive the police. Many westerners, conditioned by their experience back home, naturally expect that the police can help soothe a conflict or protect the weak. Thais see the very presence of the cops as a threat in itself and a danger. The shop owner-- who sounds like a first-class a$$hole-- knew that if the cops showed up he's be buying them tea for months to come.

[ianf]

I have a friend whose wife is fish intolerant. But to explain that even a TOUCH (let alone broth) of fish makes her violently ill is difficult in many parts of the world. Some think that if she orders shellfish, fish broth is OK. I realize that you were with few options at the time, but it may well be that some "vegetarian" dishes are offered here in restaurants where management is unaware of the importance of the distinction.

But if you are to be in town longer and since you have the advantage of a Thai speaking wife, doubtless a solution in future here in Thailand would be for simply to explain that ALL meats, including broths, make you seriously ill. She could mention that Ram Hospital is too expensive.

Better yet, there are a number of strictly vegetarian restaurants here in Chiang Mai, so many that you have to sort them out by "class."

The site on the next line lists some popular restaurants in town - scroll down for vegetarian.

www.chiangmainews.com/ecmn/viewfa.php?id=2607

The owner was atypical and your experience rare as much as unfortunate. As for police response time, I have no knowledge, but it cannot have helped you that there was none.

Next time eat at the new Burmese restaurant on the other side of Thapae from Walking street. Great vegetarian food. Or go to the veggie restaurant in Thapae Road. An angry Thai is best avoided.

[somtampet]

The thread title is a bit misleading. You weren't beaten up were you? Sounds like a misunderstanding that escalated too far, but no one was beaten up.

This post is very baffling,as you commented you were beaten up????

I see verbal altercation but no violence whatsoever.When u have been beaten up come back and post it then u will know the first hand experience.Also if u said it was that bad why did u leave your thai missus in the restaraunt and u left,not good mate,you should have nutted the <deleted> and calmy walked away

[lingnoi1977]

"You can't have any pudding if you don't eat your meat.

How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat.."

Seriously though, this happens worldwide. Meat eaters will never understand what a vegetarian, or meat intolerant person means by "no meat". You have to be really specific - no meat means nothing cooked with meat infused stock, broth or other, no bacon garnish (lol), no speck, no lardons, no "only the wontons have pork", etc etc etc...

It's a little like saying no pak chee please only to find the plate garnished with the good herb.

[NancyL]

It sounds like an unfortunate situation and it's good that it was resolved without any violence. We've covered the topic of vegetarian restaurants several times on this forum. The OP may want to do a search and develop a little list for future reference. Personally, I would have just walked down Thapae Rd. to Taste from Heaven, the vegetarian restaurant on the right (south) side of Thapae as you're walking toward the river. I'm not a vegetarian, but eat there often because the food is so good. (I must admit sometimes I order take out, bring it home and serve it with some cooked chicken from one of those great street-side BBQ chicken stands!)

[ricklev]

There might be more to this story. I assume anyone that doesn't use paragraphs to be socially inept. My Momma taught me that paragraphs were a courtesy by the writer for the benefit of the reader.....

Just kidding, sorry you had a problem!

[Fookhaht]

The thread title is a bit misleading. You weren't beaten up were you? Sounds like a misunderstanding that escalated too far, but no one was beaten up.

This post is very baffling,as you commented you were beaten up????

I see verbal altercation but no violence whatsoever.When u have been beaten up come back and post it then u will know the first hand experience.Also if u said it was that bad why did u leave your thai missus in the restaraunt and u left,not good mate,you should have nutted the <deleted> and calmy walked away

Yes, you've misled us on the title of the thread. Why should we now trust you for the content to be factual as well?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

This is defamatory to the restaurant so I don't think there's much option other than to close/remove this topic.

Welcome.

[harrry]

This is defamatory to the restaurant so I don't think there's much option other than to close/remove this topic.

Welcome.

Winnie seems you have a Beef about that....Good thing they dont use buffaloes as beef any more.

Congratulations on becoming a moderator.

[Gonzo the Face]

This is defamatory to the restaurant so I don't think there's much option other than to close/remove this topic.

Welcome.

I don't think so..... unless the story is completely fabricated, which I would doubt.

If it is then the restaruant owner has good grounds for action.

It points out the perils of the night that can and often do happen even if not encouraged.

I dont think that the OP would make up such a story making him look like a dufus or charlie the chicken..... and also points towards what might be expected from a call to those who are there to serve and protect.

[jackr]

Well the perp handled him so that's good enough for a knee-capping right there. Yep, unfortunately the cops won't do SFA; best to avoid that clan at all costs unless absolutely necessary. The Tourist Police (1155) would have been a better bet, but even then...

Best bet is to carry on posting the name of the place in the various Thai fora and on occasion drop off a stink bomb outside his gaff.

[Fookhaht]

This is defamatory to the restaurant so I don't think there's much option other than to close/remove this topic.

Welcome.

I don't think so..... unless the story is completely fabricated, which I would doubt.

The OP fabricated the thread title. Why wouldn't the story be exaggerated as well?

I wouldn't trust the OP any further than you could throw the restaurant manager....

[Ulysses G.]

I find that the only way to be sure that Thai food is 100% vegetarian is to go to a restaurant that does not serve any meat at all.

[KRS1]

if you aren't fluent in thai, can you be sure your wife was nothing more than polite when speaking with the owner?

[CMX]

"He then pushed my chest as to thrust me backwards into the restaurant."

I'm all for going to a vegetarian restaurant! I am hungering for it and searching through this forum for solutions.

Meanwhile, the title of this thread is not justified even by the facts asserted. However, if true, they would represent assault and battery in any nation following English law. So far as I know, however, it is not enforced anywhere except in civil courts - part of a divorce action, perhaps, given the lack of harm (don't know about Singapore). Surprised many think no violence was done. 'Twas, but no physical harm. Mental anguish is civil too, of course.

I am amused too by the gentlemen who automatically assume that they should protect the little woman. There are many assumptions there, including one that the woman isn't carrying a Glock or far more experienced in hand to hand combat than most "gentlemen" or more experienced in defusing issues, best yet. 19th century stuff, male egos and women as defenseless possessions.

Edited September 18, 2010 by CMX

[nikster]

This all reminds me of the following:

McDonald's To Settle Suits On Beef Tallow In French Fries

Published The New York Times: March 9, 2002

The McDonald's Corporation plans to issue an apology and pay $10 million to vegetarian and religious groups for using beef flavoring in its French fries. The action is part of a proposed settlement of lawsuits charging that the company misled consumers...

http://www.nytimes.c...ench-fries.html

The plaintiffs argued that as McDonald claimed to use only vegetable oil the fries were in fact vegetarian. I always wondered -- if your were a REAL vegetarian -- what were you doing in a McDonald's in the first place?

BTW aside from any touristy / farang type vegetarian restaurants, if you see a sign with the Thai letters 'JA' in any town that is a sign for Thai-style vegetarian but they can go through A LOT of palm oil.

Vegetarians that go to McDonald's?

Sorry my mind just exploded

[nikster]

I find that the only way to be sure that Thai food is 100% vegetarian is to go to a restaurant that does not serve any meat at all.

Exactly. Good advice, lessons learned, and time to stop whining.

The thread title is a gross exaggeration, so that makes the rest of the story hard to believe as well. Maybe another lesson learned for the OP? If you'd like people to take you seriously, don't start out with a lie.