Resurgence Of Thai Red Shirts Causes New Concerns

[rixalex]

Exactly and I dont blame them if they go out and demonstrate all over again nothings happened for them JUST BUSINESS AS USUAL FOR THE ABHISIT GOVERNMENT since they crushed the last one and suppressed them.

What do you mean nothing has happened for them? They protested for early elections, were offered them, they turned them down and set the city on fire. Some got shot at. Some got arrested. Vast majority went home. And you'd be happy to see all this happen again?

[FarangCravings]

Exactly and I dont blame them if they go out and demonstrate all over again nothings happened for them JUST BUSINESS AS USUAL FOR THE ABHISIT GOVERNMENT since they crushed the last one and suppressed them.

What do you mean nothing has happened for them? They protested for early elections, were offered them, they turned them down and set the city on fire. Some got shot at. Some got arrested. Vast majority went home. And you'd be happy to see all this happen again?

Whats changed for them? NOTHING

so if they have to get back out there to fight again and show they have a voice whether the government want to hear it or not they are not going away.

I understand that and there fight must continue to get heard (and before you say anything about Thakky its way beyond him)

[Buchholz]

The massive increase in the military budget since the coup is a matter of record not speculation.

To keep things in perspective, regionally and internationally.

ASEAN countries military expenditure as a percent of GDP

?.? (unreported) Myanmar

4.1 Singapore

3.9 Brunei

2.4 Vietnam

2.0 Malaysia

1.5 Thailand

1.1 Cambodia

1.0 Indonesia

0.8 Philippines

0.4 Laos

ASEAN average (not counting unreported Myanmar) = 1.9

On a world scale of military expenditure as a percent of GDP, Thailand ranks # 89.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

Defense spending in Thailand, as in most countries of the world, waxes and wanes, with later spending balancing years of defense cuts.

[Buchholz]

And as for petty bourgeois attacks on Abhisit's educational record what on earth is this fellow talking about.I have never heard of Abhisit's distinguished education record being impugned by anyone regardless of political affiliation.

While not all are petty burgeois attacks, most of the 267 are:

Your search for the term eton abhisit returned 267 results

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?app=core&module=search&section=search&do=search&fromsearch=1

[philw]

The massive increase in the military budget since the coup is a matter of record not speculation.

To keep things in perspective, regionally and internationally.

ASEAN countries military expenditure as a percent of GDP

?.? (unreported) Myanmar

4.1 Singapore

3.9 Brunei

2.4 Vietnam

2.0 Malaysia

1.5 Thailand

1.1 Cambodia

1.0 Indonesia

0.8 Philippines

0.4 Laos

ASEAN average (not counting unreported Myanmar) = 1.9

On a world scale of military expenditure as a percent of GDP, Thailand ranks # 89.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

Defense spending in Thailand, as in most countries of the world, waxes and wanes, with later spending balancing years of defense cuts.

How can you possibly try and defend / justify the defence budgets ??

Spending has more than doubled in the last couple of years and I very much doubt it's going down in the foreseeable future.

The perspective is corruption and diversion of funds.

[Buchholz]

The massive increase in the military budget since the coup is a matter of record not speculation.

To keep things in perspective, regionally and internationally.

ASEAN countries military expenditure as a percent of GDP

?.? (unreported) Myanmar

4.1 Singapore

3.9 Brunei

2.4 Vietnam

2.0 Malaysia

1.5 Thailand

1.1 Cambodia

1.0 Indonesia

0.8 Philippines

0.4 Laos

ASEAN average (not counting unreported Myanmar) = 1.9

On a world scale of military expenditure as a percent of GDP, Thailand ranks # 89.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures

Defense spending in Thailand, as in most countries of the world, waxes and wanes, with later spending balancing years of defense cuts.

How can you possibly try and defend / justify the defence budgets ??

Spending has more than doubled in the last couple of years and I very much doubt it's going down in the foreseeable future.

The perspective is corruption and diversion of funds.

Don't have to defend nor justify it, just letting reality state what the real amounts are instead of just hyperbolic rhetoric. It is, as said, common with many countries that defense budgets go up and down from year to year. Is Thailand, at 89th place globally, spending excessively? Even within ASEAN, it's below average in expenditures.

Do you have a source that the defense budget more than doubled?

As for predicting what it will do in the future, I'll leave that to crystal ball owners.

Edited September 23, 2010 by Buchholz

[Buchholz]

Exactly and I dont blame them if they go out and demonstrate all over again nothings happened for them JUST BUSINESS AS USUAL FOR THE ABHISIT GOVERNMENT since they crushed the last one and suppressed them.

What do you mean nothing has happened for them? They protested for early elections, were offered them, they turned them down and set the city on fire. Some got shot at. Some got arrested. Vast majority went home. And you'd be happy to see all this happen again?

Whats changed for them? NOTHING

so if they have to get back out there to fight again and show they have a voice whether the government want to hear it or not they are not going away.

I understand that and there fight must continue to get heard (and before you say anything about Thakky its way beyond him)

I understand that the Red Shirts are looking for replacements for UK's Savage and Australia's Connell to "get back out there to fight again."

[Insight]

Again you can't help swerving back to your Rainmain refrain that the reds are simply Thaksin's stooges.For more serious people read the Pasuk/Baker piece in today's Bangkok Post which comprehensively demolishes Yoshiwara's line of drivel.

I've just read the article. Found it interesting. This paragraph taken from it deals most directly with the issue of the reds as being Thaksin's stooges, and so i'm assuming this is in the main what you were refering to when you mentioned about a comprehensive demolition.

The movement using red as their symbol, which later became known as the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), first emerged as counter to the coup of 2006, and to the yellow shirts. Its core was among the supporters of Thaksin, largely in the far North, Northeast and the migrant population of the capital. The movement has since also gathered support from many in the intelligentsia and middle class who have no love for Thaksin but who believe democracy is under threat. An element of their supporters is drawn from a new generation of young "netizens" who learn by chatting on the internet, in particular the rachadamnoen chat room at the website panthip.com, groups like the student red shirts and the FARED (First Aid Red Shirts). They are not fighting for Thaksin, but want genuine democracy. Some of the supporters hold socialist or republican ideas, but probably these are the minority.

OK, so according to Pasuk/Baker the reds are also now supported by many of the intelligentsia and middle class who have no love for Thaksin but who believe democracy is under threat (assume you come in that group Jayboy) and also a new generation of young "netizens" who learn by chatting on the internet. I see. And how exactly i wonder is this known - research one assumes, but of what sort? - are we simply supposed to take their word for it?

Using the Internet to gauge public opinion is - in my opinion - absolutely flawed. The inconsistencies can be observed on this forum which, judging by the results of various polls and comments on political threads, would lead most people to assume the average ex-pat opinion is weighted against the reds. Yet reviewing the posts made on other online mediums such as Twitter you could be easily be given the exact opposite impression. We can all speculate the reasons why, probably with no or very little absolute proof to back up our assumptions. For the record I'm instantly discredited for citing any online user-generated content for my uni coursework, including Wikipedia.

[rubl]

Exactly and I dont blame them if they go out and demonstrate all over again nothings happened for them JUST BUSINESS AS USUAL FOR THE ABHISIT GOVERNMENT since they crushed the last one and suppressed them.

What do you mean nothing has happened for them? They protested for early elections, were offered them, they turned them down and set the city on fire. Some got shot at. Some got arrested. Vast majority went home. And you'd be happy to see all this happen again?

Whats changed for them? NOTHING

so if they have to get back out there to fight again and show they have a voice whether the government want to hear it or not they are not going away.

I understand that and there fight must continue to get heard (and before you say anything about Thakky its way beyond him)

You're right nothing changed for the ordinary red-shirts. They were sold out by their UDD leaders who got the message from non-interfering K. Thaksin to not accept the governments offer.

What the red-shirts need to do is get back to square one, formulate what they want other than slogans like 'democracy now' and find some less corrupt leaders. Follow up with short protests, co-operation in commissions, ignore 'elite' from any color. Put pressure on the government, but stay away from 'fights'.

[rixalex]

Whats changed for them? NOTHING

so if they have to get back out there to fight again and show they have a voice whether the government want to hear it or not they are not going away.

I understand that and there fight must continue to get heard (and before you say anything about Thakky its way beyond him)

What's special about them that means their voices must be listened to right away by everybody else in the country? In the next year or so there will be an election. Everybody's voice will be heard. If elections aren't called within the constitutional timeframe, then is the time for taking to the streets, and not just for them, but for everybody.

[Buchholz]

their rally, which was led by a former NGO worker, Sombat Boon-ngram-anong. He has spent some years in the North, working with hilltribe people, but his status was boosted yesterday. This will attract the attention of Thaksin Shinawatra and his limitless funds. Sombat can now be one of the new generation of red-shirt leaders, now that the top ones are in prison for their instigation of riots, looting and arson in May.

Sombat must have been surprised at his success in drawing so many red shirts to Rajprasong. At times he was unable to control the crowd when the mood turned ugly before they eventually dispersed in the evening. The success was noted, and it will only be a matter of time before other red-shirt leaders plan similar rallies to achieve their goals.

That "only a matter of time" has arrived for Sombat, "the former NGO worker", who is currently the editor of the Red News and Voice of Thaksin publications.

He has announced a new Red Rally for this Sunday, October 10th, which will include the obligatory demand at Ratchaprasong for the release of the Red Leaders, a flowery tribute to their fallen Red comrade, Seh Daeng, at his assassination site on Rama IV road, parade through Ban Kai and Din Daeng, before finishing off at the Democracy Monument for the mandatory affirmation of their democratic and peaceful Red history.

Enjoy, Bangkok.