We Thais Don't Trust Each Other To Do Even The Simplest Thing

[webfact]

STOPPAGE TIME

We don't trust each other to do even the simplest thing

By Tulsathit Taptim

The Nation

I just want a faster Internet, for crying out loud. Is that too much to ask? From the way things are going, it most likely is. But I still don't get it anyway. We could understand it when, 15 years or so ago, people said Bangkok could not have a subway system because the soil was too soft. That the presumption turned out to be untrue I can live with. That Bangkok wasted years on the land subsidence fear is forgivable.

Not this time. Thailand is missing the 3G bandwagon not because of national security concerns, or lack of expertise, or lack of money. We have become an international laughing stock simply because having 3G at a particular time would benefit some people and make others lose out. Technological advancement in our country has been too intertwined with politics, and only our politics says how, where and when we should proceed. And I'm mad.

This has become a bad soap opera featuring greed, selfishness, jealousy and cheap tricks. And the next time I hear the term "public interest" in the debate, I may consider committing a massacre. The unionists are just worried about themselves, the executives about how the political winds will blow, and the politicians about who gets what. The judges look like a befuddled referee in a dirty and cunning football game.

Mind you, telecom liberalisation was a stipulation in the 1997 Constitution. I'm fairly confident that if you had visited Laos or Vietnam in that year carrying a low-end mobile phone, you would have been treated like a demi-god. If you visit either country today, just pretend you're from Taiwan or Hong Kong. That's the best advice I can give.

Thirteen bloody years later and we are still arguing over who has the authority. Every time we took a little step forward, we took two huge steps backward. Two great national traits have held everything hostage - blind selfishness and blind envy. When it came to the subject of a "regulatory body", three things would happen: First, one group would try to block its establishment, and if that failed, this group and other groups would try to put their men on the board and seize control, leaving those who missed the boat to behave like a jealous female villain in a TV drama.

Unlike the subway debate, nobody has even tried to make the 3G impasse sound remotely scientific. Even ethical arguments smack of nasty self-interest. Consumers are the last thing on the minds of the people who can dictate the future course of the Thai telecom industry. Politicians are afraid to lose power to the regulatory body. Mobile phone companies will go for the cheapest investment (which is fair enough) and whatever system will continue to allow them to bleed customers dry. Government enterprises have been harping on about the public interest while in fact standing in the way of faster and better digital services for Thai people.

How did our Southeast Asian neighbours manage to leave us in their dust when it comes to 3G? Simple: because it is simple. This is not a nuclear or space programme that has to navigate different public sentiments, international politics, or funding or human resource difficulties. The technology is there, and so is the public consensus. The question is so basic: How can we do it transparently while making it fair to both investors and consumers?

It has taken us 13 years to get to nowhere. A simple agenda has been bogged down by the corrupt nature of our country. Instead of being able to use technology to innovate, create and thus decentralise wealth, 3G has become a name associated with everything counter-productive, including what has come to characterise the nation - double plays.

Ordinary people just want better phone signals, faster downloads and cheaper Internet access. 3G can give us that and much more, and we know who stands between us and what we want. If it had really been about doing it the right way, we would have known. If the government had been sincere, we would have felt it. If the labour unions had really cared about consumers, why are we angry at them?

Some people talk about the will of the Constitution. Don't get me started. The NBTC requirement is just the charter writers' way of saying why we should liberalise the telecom sector for consumers' benefits, and how we should do it. It's certainly not their will to have Thais drooling over what neighbouring countries have while the same old vested interest groups here keep on fighting and fighting and fighting.

-- The Nation 2010-09-22

[Bagwan]

At least somebody has his fingers on the pulse.

No tilac, it isn't there.

[zorm999]

This whole sad affair so accurately depicts one of Thailand's biggest problems. Tulsathit was spot on when he wrote that this is now about "greed, selfishness, jealousy and cheap tricks". For a government who is claiming to clamp down on corruption, it's sad that such a blatent example of it is standing out like this. Thailand deserves so much better than this!

[MAJIC]

Your people in Thailand have the expertise to go forward,and the skill necessary to achieve the goal,sort out the problems yourselves.

UP2U

With best wishes!

[whybother]

This whole sad affair so accurately depicts one of Thailand's biggest problems. Tulsathit was spot on when he wrote that this is now about "greed, selfishness, jealousy and cheap tricks". For a government who is claiming to clamp down on corruption, it's sad that such a blatent example of it is standing out like this. Thailand deserves so much better than this!

Has it been stopped because of corruption, or has it been stopped to stop corruption? That is, is it the NTC that is corrupt in trying to have the 3G auctions just before they are legislated out of existence, or is it CAT / TOT that is corrupt in trying to stop the auctions going ahead to keep their piece of the pie?

And it isn't actually the government that has stopped it. It is the courts. If the government interfered in the courts decisions, you would complain too.

[slapout]

"Thailand deserves so much better than this" I agree with this concept, but for the 'better' to happen, the general public is going to have to start thinking like the author of this article. Once they get to that point, reaction will be required, which would follow a outline for the acceptable path to follow, to reach the objective.

[timekeeper]

''We Thais don't trust each other to do even the simplest thing''

i think there are a great many farangs who think the same thing about Thais too.........

[welbymd]

Money, greed, misplaced priorities seems to be the root of the problem, as the OP stated.

In Pattaya, it is hard to even get a so called connection speed approaching the archaic old dial up speeds of the last century. The servers in place could not cope with the load before the service was fully in place. The ISP's continue to sell adversised capability that cannot be met. I will not even try to access the internet during afternoon and evening hours. You simply cannot make a connection. This is very close to the center of Pattaya too.Forget talking to the service provider. The usual response is there are too many people using, as they sell another subsricption to the guy next to me. I wouldn't mind paying the money I am now if I received the speed I'm paying for. 3G? talk about missing out on the future. A lot of countries are rolling out 4G.

And it is not only this topic where you find problems. Let me give you a recent example.

I was looking for a shophouse to use as a workshop for a project that hopefully will turn into a business....Anyway, I found a suitable location and contacted the owner. We agreed on a rent and paid 6 months in advance on a 1 year lease. I wanted a proper "throne" in the bathroom and agreed to purchase said throne, and the owner would install. Well, the idiot broke his squatter in the process. Next, he said he did not want my throne in his building and then wanted a 20% increase in rent. I said a few choice words and asked for my money back, the deal is off. The owner wanted to give me 1/3 of the 6 months I had paid him and come back later for the rest. Right. There were a few tense moments of holding a piece of steel pipe that happened to be in my hand while moving equipment into the shop, while my reply was translated/changed to a proper reply. In the end I got my money back. Now this guy still has an empty shophouse with a broken squatter. I doubt very seriously I would have entertained the idea of removing a "used" toilet. hel_l, I let him know he could keep the toilet. Where is the logic? No logic, simple greed. He had intended to have this happen all along right up to the moment I had moved all my equipment into his shophouse. The squatter was just the excuse to set it in motion. I find it harder and harder to conduct any endeavor without having to worry about "what's next" in the outcome.

Yes this is Thailand. It used to be the Land Of Smiles, but I believe that is a bygone era. In the 10 years I have lived here the change is immense. Don't get me wrong I love Thailand, but sometimes I want to scream. I've had enough, but not more than I can stand, yet. I've taken up yogo to releive stress..Ha, not, just have another beer. Maybe it will be okay.

Same, same. Special promotion for farang!

[edgarfriendly]

greed, and childish expectations.

its mine i wannit or no one gets to play with it, etc...

reapin what u sow, yeaaaaaaa...

ef:blink:

[chmiroau]

''We Thais don't trust each other to do even the simplest thing''

i think there are a great many farangs who think the same thing about Thais too.........

Very sad, but very true. It is unfortunate that Thailand has got on the mobile phone and internet profit band wagon.

Still, one big thing that many don't know is that the mobile signal is better here than in regional Australia, where I used to have to walk out the front of my house and down the road a bit, just to get 3 bars on my 3G mobile, and that was in the suburbs of Brisbane.

[zorm999]

This whole sad affair so accurately depicts one of Thailand's biggest problems. Tulsathit was spot on when he wrote that this is now about "greed, selfishness, jealousy and cheap tricks". For a government who is claiming to clamp down on corruption, it's sad that such a blatent example of it is standing out like this. Thailand deserves so much better than this!

Has it been stopped because of corruption, or has it been stopped to stop corruption? That is, is it the NTC that is corrupt in trying to have the 3G auctions just before they are legislated out of existence, or is it CAT / TOT that is corrupt in trying to stop the auctions going ahead to keep their piece of the pie?

And it isn't actually the government that has stopped it. It is the courts. If the government interfered in the courts decisions, you would complain too.

I agree that it's everyone who is trying to "keep their piece of the pie". I wasn't suggesting that one side or the other were more corrupt and I'm certainly not criticising the courts for making the decision they did - I tend to think the courts are far less corrupt than the businessmen involved in all this. I was just suggesting that the whole 3G farce is a very clear example of how corruption is damaging Thailand. I know that's nothing shocking to people who live here, but I certainly agree with the points made in the original article about Thailand now being so far behind other countries in the area and that greed is at the heart of so why that's the case.

[scotbeve]

"greed, selfishness, jealousy and cheap tricks"

In high places....

[MJP]

They should have a little more faith in themselves. Looking at their balance of trade, their surplus, their stockpiles of foreign reserves . . . I don't see this country as a laughing stock, far from it. The UK and Europe perhaps, but not Thailand.

Also know many very competent Thai's who perform near miracles with few resources. Others who have left the farms as poor young people decades ago and managed to make it to concierge on the largest of cruise liners, speak English and Spanish fluently, living in Miami (both brothers have done this and now own half the district).

Few Westerners could survive in a near pure capitalist economy, without that safety net (although elusive for some) and all that easy credit. Guess we'll find out how they'll get on soon enough though.

[asiawatcher]

If you look at the chronicles of Thai history, the absolute bumbling and right up until 1993 - the latest research I have - I wonder how Thailand ever got to where it currently is. MIsdeeds, stupidity and greed, power struggles, and useless wars with neighbours. In fact Thailand seems to survive in spite of the stupidity it propagates in its overall management.

Now that they have progressed from agrarian, to industrial to technology - they continue to just bump along the bottom whilst the PR machine keeps praising how great the country is doing when in fact it is operating at 10% or less of its true capacity. The 3G issue is just another in a long line of 'events' that go to prove the country is a bumbling mess along with all the niceties of living here. I would not have it any other way as a Farang as the over-governess of the west is numbing, but I do despair a lot for the poor Thai people who are being fed such a crock of crap!

[animatic]

Yet again, Thailand the culture, and it's business culture, shoots itself in the foot, because they have not grasped a modern implementation of Kow Tow culture.

If all your business and public decisions are based on whether you or your side, gains or loses face and 'possible' profits that acrue as face, then all is lost.

CAT and TOT leadership should go hide in shame for their myopic world view,

as if getting the country forward somehow harms the country, through THEIR

personally controled bueaucracy not getting the biggest share of the pie.

CAT and TOT leadership, you have now lost much more face than you

could ever have gained by these stupid petulant childish moves. Go back to the Mathahom and see how close your actions resemble the children there,

and hang your heads in shame.

Edited September 22, 2010 by animatic

[sleepyjohn]

I got on my first bus in ten years of Thailand on Sunday.

It wasn't a clonker it was the VIP bus to Chiangrai.

I was near the emergency door at the back and noticed the two essential safety tools, a handle to work the door (red/yellow well-displayed EMERGENCY HANDLE sign) and a small window hammer with a point to BREAK WINDOW HERE or something like that, despite having a place to fit, were both missing.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a nervous wreck and I wasn't expecting too much. But having been in a multiple death train crash in my life, I thought I'd just politely point out "What will happen if we have a crash and the bus catches fire? It would be nice to get out..."

"Oh" said the katoey hostess in Thai. "I'll get one from up front".

The cute young lady who was actually right next to the door looked upon me benevolently, smiled as if explaining something to a child, and calmly said "Mai penrai....".

Naturally three days later I'm still waiting for the return of the hostess....

Edited September 22, 2010 by sleepyjohn

[bikersiam]

of cause u can't trust yr friends eather , try kissing a cobra . a safer bet

[dominique355]

The basic problems in this 3G comedy are that there are 2 government agencies which are in a deep conflict of interest: Both CAT and TOT should operate for public service (i.e. basically not profit), but for some obscure reason they are also allowed to actively engage in business for their own pocket. So they are competing against their own public services. This alone should be enough to dismantle both CAT and TOT and replace them with the NBTC. This NBTC should not be allowed to run a business.

BTW why was it so difficult for 5 governments to set up this NBTC? Couldn't they simply rename the NTC to be called NBTC? Problem solved.

If we remember the problems in setting up the present NTC and the numerous court actions in the process of selecting its members, we are not likely to see a new NBTC any time soon.

[RKASA]

If I understand it CAT and ToT are a charter for the good of the nation and its people and should be doing things in that vain, but have turned into the Comcast of Thailand and want to demand control of the industry and its content, fix the price and make competition pay them a tax for being better then them or outright cancel the competition and then not provide the services promised - just collect the money.

Sounds like a good plan if your them. Wrap it in a flag and call any other view then theirs dis loyal to Thai's. CAT and ToT are god like.

[dumball]

I was going to comment that this thread is closely aligned with the one on the competance of government , all of these agencies are in cahoots and have thier snouts in the trough also , an incompetant person rarely strusts the competance of another for very obviouse reasons , backed up by the ever present Thai thought "I KNOW '

Know WHAT is the pertanent question ? .

I opted to not comment .

[robsamui]

Money, greed, misplaced priorities seems to be the root of the problem, as the OP stated.

In Pattaya, it is hard to even get a so called connection speed approaching the archaic old dial up speeds of the last century. The servers in place could not cope with the load before the service was fully in place. The ISP's continue to sell adversised capability that cannot be met. I will not even try to access the internet during afternoon and evening hours. You simply cannot make a connection. This is very close to the center of Pattaya too.Forget talking to the service provider. The usual response is there are too many people using, as they sell another subsricption to the guy next to me. I wouldn't mind paying the money I am now if I received the speed I'm paying for. 3G? talk about missing out on the future. A lot of countries are rolling out 4G.

And it is not only this topic where you find problems. Let me give you a recent example.

I was looking for a shophouse to use as a workshop for a project that hopefully will turn into a business....Anyway, I found a suitable location and contacted the owner. We agreed on a rent and paid 6 months in advance on a 1 year lease. I wanted a proper "throne" in the bathroom and agreed to purchase said throne, and the owner would install. Well, the idiot broke his squatter in the process. Next, he said he did not want my throne in his building and then wanted a 20% increase in rent. I said a few choice words and asked for my money back, the deal is off. The owner wanted to give me 1/3 of the 6 months I had paid him and come back later for the rest. Right. There were a few tense moments of holding a piece of steel pipe that happened to be in my hand while moving equipment into the shop, while my reply was translated/changed to a proper reply. In the end I got my money back. Now this guy still has an empty shophouse with a broken squatter. I doubt very seriously I would have entertained the idea of removing a "used" toilet. hel_l, I let him know he could keep the toilet. Where is the logic? No logic, simple greed. He had intended to have this happen all along right up to the moment I had moved all my equipment into his shophouse. The squatter was just the excuse to set it in motion. I find it harder and harder to conduct any endeavor without having to worry about "what's next" in the outcome.

Yes this is Thailand. It used to be the Land Of Smiles, but I believe that is a bygone era. In the 10 years I have lived here the change is immense. Don't get me wrong I love Thailand, but sometimes I want to scream. I've had enough, but not more than I can stand, yet. I've taken up yogo to releive stress..Ha, not, just have another beer. Maybe it will be okay.

Same, same. Special promotion for farang!

This makes me ponder. I exiled myself here 12 years ago and everything was so so different then. But is this just my perception? Is it that, in 12 years, I have become increasingly more aware of how selfish, stubborn, arrogant, proud, parochial and blindly groping the Thai people are? Or were they like this all the time but I just couldn't see it? The essential core of Thai national awareness seems to be ... "I'm right. What I do is correct. I can turn my hand to anything. I can cut hair. I can be an electrician. I can make a car move therefore I can drive. I am smart and intelligent and have leaned all the folk songs from Ayudhya. I understand about business and know when I see 15 fruit sellers in a line on the side of the road that this is good business and so I should open a fruit shop here too. Even though I don't know if Buenos Aires is a country or a city, or where it is, that's of no consequence to me because I belong to the best nation in the world and all the other nations are mildly stupid and don't understand things so well."

Add to this a set of groups all composed of people with this attitude, mix in face-saving and point-scoring plus a few backhanders to sweeten everything and you've probably got the core of the current 3G fiasco. But what do I know? I'm mildly stupid and don't understand things so well ...

R

[ryladie99]

''We Thais don't trust each other to do even the simplest thing''

i think there are a great many farangs who think the same thing about Thais too.........

Wow???

[IAMSOBAD]

Robsamui...My friend you hit the nail on the head!

Maybe Thais should seek farang guidance instead of dismissing us like enemies.

Farang have done more for this country than all the reds in front of Central World and all the Yellows blocking the airports.

Thais love 3 steps forward 5 steps bqck.

As long as they sweat they think they are solving a problem.

[robsamui]

Robsamui...My friend you hit the nail on the head!

Maybe Thais should seek farang guidance instead of dismissing us like enemies.

Farang have done more for this country than all the reds in front of Central World and all the Yellows blocking the airports.

Thais love 3 steps forward 5 steps bqck.

As long as they sweat they think they are solving a problem.

I've been thinking about this all day!

I think the biggest setback is a blind nationalistic pride which is glued to the idea of not being able to bear to lose face.

I keep having this image of a room full of people: 20 or 30 farangs all intimidatingly BIG with a Thai person in the middle, looking like a 10 year-old in comparison. All the farangs are highly qualified - engineers, academics, teachers, diplomats. They are informed on world issues, educated to an extent that can't compare with Thai universities, have the ability to and experience of organising and planning international projects and are hugely better informed, more skilful, and far more efficient and competent than any of their Thai counterparts. The Thai man in the midst of the group knows this and it makes him nervous, insecure and he feels threatened by it/them. It makes him lose face just by being there. He feels inferior. He feels resentment. He cannot bear to admit that he does not have the world-awareness, knowledge or skills of the others in the group, so he tries to save face by bullshi**ing and bluffing and making promises he knows he can't keep.

And when it comes to big engineering projects (the Skytrain springs to mind) then he has to seek help from 'these people'. It makes him angrier and more resentful because he realises at some level that these guys know he can't cope. So he becomes passively aggressive, takes the credit where he can (I remember the big signs that the German (?) and Thai collaboration had all along the Skytrain route - Thai-Gammon) blames any snags on the farangs and lets all his friends know just how brilliantly he has organised everything.

Which paints a really gloomy picture! Because it's only half of the story!

The reason that I'm still here after all this time is the other side of the coin. Hand-in-hand with this amusing behaviour is that Thai people are child-like. On a day-to-day basis nearly everyone I have met (certainly everyone away from the tourist areas!) is light-hearted, fun-loving, warm, generous and open and delightful in a way that I've only ever found in a few communities before. Yes, they can have tantrums and be as selfish and as thoughtless as children, too; it's part of the charm!

The problems seem to develop when these same people rise to a position of power or decision-making. They desperately cling to the comforting notion that this is their country so they know all about it and thus can do their jobs fine, thank you. True. But it's no longer a big world. They try to pretend that if they mess up then it can be somehow glossed-over or blamed on someone else. The fact that the entire world is watching it all live on TV as it is happening, the Internet and YouTube has videos of them floundering, makes them close their eyes in panic and pretend even more that this is Thailand and it's nobody else's business. They pray every day for all those farangs to go away and yet they need their help - from national projects to tourist income - although the best farangs by far are the ones that appear for a week with a wad of dollars and then go away again.

Yes, some Thai people are aware, educated and cosmopolitan - the privileged tiny minority who's family are rich and can pay for them to go abroad. But, even so, as they say, you can take the Thai out of Thailand ..... !!

R

Edited September 22, 2010 by robsamui

[sirchai]

of cause u can't trust yr friends eather , try kissing a cobra . a safer bet

Your post is just insane. :jap:

[phetaroi]

I got on my first bus in ten years of Thailand on Sunday.

It wasn't a clonker it was the VIP bus to Chiangrai.

I was near the emergency door at the back and noticed the two essential safety tools, a handle to work the door (red/yellow well-displayed EMERGENCY HANDLE sign) and a small window hammer with a point to BREAK WINDOW HERE or something like that, despite having a place to fit, were both missing.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a nervous wreck and I wasn't expecting too much. But having been in a multiple death train crash in my life, I thought I'd just politely point out "What will happen if we have a crash and the bus catches fire? It would be nice to get out..."

"Oh" said the katoey hostess in Thai. "I'll get one from up front".

The cute young lady who was actually right next to the door looked upon me benevolently, smiled as if explaining something to a child, and calmly said "Mai penrai....".

Naturally three days later I'm still waiting for the return of the hostess....

While corruption and greed is a part of all this, Sleepyjohn has pointed out an equally serious problem. Things just not being done right or kept up properly. My favorite example is satellite television. I had it here in the States before moving to Thailand, I have it here in the States since moving back from Thailand. Here is the States, clear as a bell; non-HDTV stations excellent; HDTV stations even better. In Thailand, our satellite reception was "tolerable". During a heavy rainstorm, blacked out in Thailand. In the States that kind of reception problem has been extremely rare. And when we would call about it in Thailand we would get an answer along the lines of, "It's the satellite. We no can fix." Bull toddy.

Very similar with internet speeds. We simply weren't getting what was advertised 75% of the time. Here, regardless of the company, we get what was advertised, and often more.

Take it down to a small level. Ice cube trays. We never had trays last more than a week or two in Thailand before they would crack. The ones I had (or have) in the States last for months and years.

In Thailand, Satellite television sounds good and modern. High speed internet sounds good and modern. The ice cube tray looks shiny. There are too many things in Thailand that "look" good enough or "sound good enough", but are really substandard.

[dighambara]

At least somebody has his fingers on the pulse.

No tilac, it isn't there.

"Every time we took a little step forward, we took two huge steps backward. Two great national traits have held everything hostage - blind selfishness and blind envy."

"How did our Southeast Asian neighbours manage to leave us in their dust?"

T.I.T. Where the goal is suicide.

Forty years ago, Thailand was 'King of the Hill' in South East Asia and Singapore was an unknown, backwater port. Presto, Singapore opened its doors to unfettered foreign investment and now Singapore is top dog. Vietnam is following fast, while Thailand wallows in the Kwai Pond...

[metisdead]

I got on my first bus in ten years of Thailand on Sunday.

It wasn't a clonker it was the VIP bus to Chiangrai.

I was near the emergency door at the back and noticed the two essential safety tools, a handle to work the door (red/yellow well-displayed EMERGENCY HANDLE sign) and a small window hammer with a point to BREAK WINDOW HERE or something like that, despite having a place to fit, were both missing.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a nervous wreck and I wasn't expecting too much. But having been in a multiple death train crash in my life, I thought I'd just politely point out "What will happen if we have a crash and the bus catches fire? It would be nice to get out..."

"Oh" said the katoey hostess in Thai. "I'll get one from up front".

The cute young lady who was actually right next to the door looked upon me benevolently, smiled as if explaining something to a child, and calmly said "Mai penrai....".

Naturally three days later I'm still waiting for the return of the hostess....

While corruption and greed is a part of all this, Sleepyjohn has pointed out an equally serious problem. Things just not being done right or kept up properly. My favorite example is satellite television. I had it here in the States before moving to Thailand, I have it here in the States since moving back from Thailand. Here is the States, clear as a bell; non-HDTV stations excellent; HDTV stations even better. In Thailand, our satellite reception was "tolerable". During a heavy rainstorm, blacked out in Thailand. In the States that kind of reception problem has been extremely rare. And when we would call about it in Thailand we would get an answer along the lines of, "It's the satellite. We no can fix." Bull toddy.

Very similar with internet speeds. We simply weren't getting what was advertised 75% of the time. Here, regardless of the company, we get what was advertised, and often more.

Take it down to a small level. Ice cube trays. We never had trays last more than a week or two in Thailand before they would crack. The ones I had (or have) in the States last for months and years.

In Thailand, Satellite television sounds good and modern. High speed internet sounds good and modern. The ice cube tray looks shiny. There are too many things in Thailand that "look" good enough or "sound good enough", but are really substandard.

Very true and on the mark.

[jaywalker]

"Even though I don't know if Buenos Aires is a country or a city, or where it is, that's of no consequence to me because I belong to the best nation in the world and all the other nations are mildly stupid and don't understand things so well."

Sounds like your average American back in the States.

Someone back there actually asked me if they sell rice-cookers in Thailand. Sheesh!

[TPI]

Money, greed, misplaced priorities seems to be the root of the problem, as the OP stated.

In Pattaya, it is hard to even get a so called connection speed approaching the archaic old dial up speeds of the last century. The servers in place could not cope with the load before the service was fully in place. The ISP's continue to sell adversised capability that cannot be met. I will not even try to access the internet during afternoon and evening hours. You simply cannot make a connection. This is very close to the center of Pattaya too.Forget talking to the service provider. The usual response is there are too many people using, as they sell another subsricption to the guy next to me. I wouldn't mind paying the money I am now if I received the speed I'm paying for. 3G? talk about missing out on the future. A lot of countries are rolling out 4G.

And it is not only this topic where you find problems. Let me give you a recent example.

I was looking for a shophouse to use as a workshop for a project that hopefully will turn into a business....Anyway, I found a suitable location and contacted the owner. We agreed on a rent and paid 6 months in advance on a 1 year lease. I wanted a proper "throne" in the bathroom and agreed to purchase said throne, and the owner would install. Well, the idiot broke his squatter in the process. Next, he said he did not want my throne in his building and then wanted a 20% increase in rent. I said a few choice words and asked for my money back, the deal is off. The owner wanted to give me 1/3 of the 6 months I had paid him and come back later for the rest. Right. There were a few tense moments of holding a piece of steel pipe that happened to be in my hand while moving equipment into the shop, while my reply was translated/changed to a proper reply. In the end I got my money back. Now this guy still has an empty shophouse with a broken squatter. I doubt very seriously I would have entertained the idea of removing a "used" toilet. hel_l, I let him know he could keep the toilet. Where is the logic? No logic, simple greed. He had intended to have this happen all along right up to the moment I had moved all my equipment into his shophouse. The squatter was just the excuse to set it in motion. I find it harder and harder to conduct any endeavor without having to worry about "what's next" in the outcome.

Yes this is Thailand. It used to be the Land Of Smiles, but I believe that is a bygone era. In the 10 years I have lived here the change is immense. Don't get me wrong I love Thailand, but sometimes I want to scream. I've had enough, but not more than I can stand, yet. I've taken up yogo to releive stress..Ha, not, just have another beer. Maybe it will be okay.

Same, same. Special promotion for farang!

This makes me ponder. I exiled myself here 12 years ago and everything was so so different then. But is this just my perception? Is it that, in 12 years, I have become increasingly more aware of how selfish, stubborn, arrogant, proud, parochial and blindly groping the Thai people are? Or were they like this all the time but I just couldn't see it? The essential core of Thai national awareness seems to be ... "I'm right. What I do is correct. I can turn my hand to anything. I can cut hair. I can be an electrician. I can make a car move therefore I can drive. I am smart and intelligent and have leaned all the folk songs from Ayudhya. I understand about business and know when I see 15 fruit sellers in a line on the side of the road that this is good business and so I should open a fruit shop here too. Even though I don't know if Buenos Aires is a country or a city, or where it is, that's of no consequence to me because I belong to the best nation in the world and all the other nations are mildly stupid and don't understand things so well."

Add to this a set of groups all composed of people with this attitude, mix in face-saving and point-scoring plus a few backhanders to sweeten everything and you've probably got the core of the current 3G fiasco. But what do I know? I'm mildly stupid and don't understand things so well ...

R

dam_n, dam_n, dam_n you took the words right out of my mouth! I've been here 11 years, in my first business venture I was burnt by my Thai partner and lied to by people I asked advice from! I then read "Furure Shock - Thailand". Every farang who comes to Thailand with a dream should be given a copy free, before they come here.

I sincerley hope that this country never changes....really! Where else could we live in the manner that we do? We are accepted as being seperate from the society, what's wrong with that? Our living costs are lower than almost anywhere else on earth and some of the people appear to make us welcome ('mericans excluded) If we don't get 3G so what! It's not our problem, everytime we go back to our dependants all of the modern world is available to us. Lay back and keep smiling, it drives the locals crazy!