The Thai Government Could Be Destroyed By Corruption

[slapout]

The two key words on this topic The Thai GOVERNMENT COULD be destroyed by corruption. It may be more realistic to say the government has been destroyed by corruption. When you have banned politicians submitting bills via cohorts, proposing agendas for political parties, their/family companies doing business via government contracts,etc it is hard to sink lower. Then you have those who are found guilty but have absconded as do many prior to the arrest warrant or judicial date, or after putting up bail security. (almost a get out of jail free, card)These people/family business seem to continue with their government paid work also. They may have managed to surpass the first mentioned group on the lower measurement.

Then you have the reining political contestants for the low as whale sh.t award who having observed, been involved, monitored, etc the mentioned groups are apparently attempting to outdo their mentors in quantity, brazenness, and complete disregard for the citizens/residence of this fair country.

The honest politicians must feel like Custer at The Little Bighorn. Surrounded and wondering where did all of those thieves come from?

[rubl]

Corruption in Bell, Calif

Here is some 'corruption' in the US,

yes it happens in farang land too, but look; they got caught and are going to jail.

Try to imagine a news story like TiT.��times 10,000

with no free speech it aint gonna happen.

http://abcnews.go.co...fornia-11694066

There is nothing in Thailand that will stop you reporting or reporting about something like this, so it's nothing to do with your so called "no free speech".

You are quite right but then you leave yourself open to civil and criminal charges of slander or libel. AFAIK whatever is said or written is true is not a defence.

Read up on 'defamation' here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slander

In most countries you can say what you want, but anything you say (or write) can and will be used against you. In most cases the differences per country lay in the nuances

[Changian]

The Nation's love in with Abhisit and the Dems continues unabated. Nice how they ignore any recent stories of Democrat corruption and blamed coalition partners for any problems.

Three recent 'Dodgy Dem' stories for starters . . .

Suthep's land on Samui - Suthep & Land never a good combination, looks like he didn't learn his lesson from the 1992 scandal which brought down the Democrat govt then.

Chuan Leekpai's son, whose only job experience since graduating from Ramhkhamheng Uni has been working at Chiang Mai zoo for a week and as an assistant to his Dad for a year, being given a Deputy spokesman's post at the Culture Ministry - with no interview required as the Culture Minister Nipit said 'Pluem' is a fast learner and he would like to see him become prime minister in the future.

And of course the 258 million baht donation from TPI to the Democrat Party. Just over 2 months ago, on July 13, the Office of the Attorney-General established a five-member prosecution team for the Democrat Party’s donation case which was forwarded to the Constitutional Court.

[animatic]

I see the Red Rally has encouraged the rouged faces to return and vainly

try to stem the tide of approbation that has continued unabated for months.

The usual compendium of mis-interpretations

and bald face character assassination based on nothing.

Same same; red sky at night and the truth takes flight.

[t36ony]

I am driving my car along the road, minding my own business, when suddenly a car comes out of a junction right in front of me. It was either hit him or hit a bus in another lane. I had put the brakes hard on. I also beeped my horn and flashed my lights at the guy for doing this. For the other guy this was a sign that he did wrong. He then followed me for the next 10 minutes, going in front of me then braking hard and general intimidation. I think this highlights a fact that Thais will never admit they are wrong and if you say they are wrong they will get angry and come back at you double. It is very hard.

It is very hard and while I can understand your frustration with the driving incident, it helps to remember that road rage occurs in other places, too.

Thankfully, here it's rare that it gets to this point:

I think you are missing the point a little, because if it was road rage i should be the one who is angry. I was not angry, i did nothing wrong. My point was he got angry because i beeped my horn. He did wrong in the first place then he bullied me for 10 minutes for him losing face.

[rubl]

The Nation's love in with Abhisit and the Dems continues unabated. Nice how they ignore any recent stories of Democrat corruption and blamed coalition partners for any problems.

Three recent 'Dodgy Dem' stories for starters . . .

Suthep's land on Samui - Suthep & Land never a good combination, looks like he didn't learn his lesson from the 1992 scandal which brought down the Democrat govt then.

Chuan Leekpai's son, whose only job experience since graduating from Ramhkhamheng Uni has been working at Chiang Mai zoo for a week and as an assistant to his Dad for a year, being given a Deputy spokesman's post at the Culture Ministry - with no interview required as the Culture Minister Nipit said 'Pluem' is a fast learner and he would like to see him become prime minister in the future.

And of course the 258 million baht donation from TPI to the Democrat Party. Just over 2 months ago, on July 13, the Office of the Attorney-General established a five-member prosecution team for the Democrat Party�s donation case which was forwarded to the Constitutional Court.

All these stories you can find on the Nations website. The emphasise may be a bit different than you like, but it's there. Also these cases as far as applicable are progressing as court cases. Maybe slowly, but cases against others are also not progressing with lightning speed. Some even got dismissed as people lost their memory, like in the case of a well-known politician's son. Said politician happens to be in the opposition's camp

[yellow1red1]

Corruption is kinda like a car engine...if well maintained and having a good muffler corruption makes little smoke and noise to draw attention....if not well maintained and having a bad muffler corruption gets smelly & noisy and gets a lot of public attention. Thai politics needs an overhaul, but it's going to take an extraordinary mechanic, probably a team of extraordinary mechanics, to do the job and the car will be in the shop for a while.

good picture - add that any mechanic who starts fixing gets all the tools taken away. put in jail , website blocked

anyway it's starting to look like reconciliation is leading to a gang land truce and back to normal will be back to business as usual

they will put a muffler on corruption and have all the headlines call it democracy

This OP, former Minister, he just wants back in the pig trough and says exactly the Right Things to show he will work With............

[asiawatcher]

PAD, the Politburo AGAINST Democracy, a fascist leaning organization that want to deny voting rights to the majority, blatantly claiming the "rural poor are too stupid to vote", who wants a Parliament that is 70% appointed, with only 30% Elected, with those elected only being voted on by the Elites, and who wants to kick all foreigners out of Thailand. Oh, yeah, that's a party I can really stand behind.

Sorry, but PAD and Reconciliation is a major oxymoron and should NEVER be used in the same sentence, paragraph, or book.

Another brainwashed blogger!

[Buchholz]

I think you are missing the point a little, because if it was road rage i should be the one who is angry. I was not angry, i did nothing wrong. My point was he got angry because i beeped my horn. He did wrong in the first place then he bullied me for 10 minutes for him losing face.

What you describe is road rage. It can come from either of the people involved in an incident. It's a gross over-reaction to an occurrence. In his case, it was your honking of the horn. In the video, it was alleged to have been from getting cut off.

[newermonkey]

I think Thai people generally are corrupt to the core, in fact probably all SEA people from China down to Indonesia, I have never seen real honesty since I moved to Thailand 30 years ago, I have had over the years, 5 cameras stolen, money, phones, ornaments from the home, computers, motor cycles and even an entire business! etc, etc. If I wasn't wearing my clothes they would nick them as well, yes I have had shoes stolen from outside a temple!!!!

Please no "if you are complaining so much why don't you go home" comments.....

....Because I like being in Thailand for the following.... Decent Weather, Low Tax, easy to work, sometimes good sex, cheap transport, cheap accommodation and generally friendly people except they are probably eying you up to see what they can steel.

[rubl]

PAD, the Politburo AGAINST Democracy, a fascist leaning organization that want to deny voting rights to the majority, blatantly claiming the "rural poor are too stupid to vote", who wants a Parliament that is 70% appointed, with only 30% Elected, with those elected only being voted on by the Elites, and who wants to kick all foreigners out of Thailand. Oh, yeah, that's a party I can really stand behind.

Sorry, but PAD and Reconciliation is a major oxymoron and should NEVER be used in the same sentence, paragraph, or book.

Another brainwashed blogger!

Agree, although he (she/it ?) seems to have chosen his name wisely

[dumball]

'Buchholz' timestamp='1285156444' post='3900147']dumball' timestamp='1285153123' post='3900046']

Actually, the reference was that what rarely happens here (perhaps it is different where you stay in Cambodia) is the face to face fist-fights like the one depicted in the video.

More commonly, what happens is as the poster described in the post earlier.

I am aware of what your comment was actually directed at , and why , but I gave it a little 'Twist' to point out what does not happen and should , things are different here in Cambodia , drivers sometimes show impatience but I have not seen an incidence of pure road rage , in 5 years i have not personally seen any fisticuffs either .

To say that irate drivers only follow to agrivate is a misconception , how many times have I read here on TV where these irrational drivers chase , force to stop and either beat the other driver with an iron bar a la in pucket(?) or shoot him . How about the mentaly disturbed son of a wealthy family chased a bus who had 'Offended ' him , pulled across in front of the bus at a stop and killed some innocent person , what did he get as punishment for MURDER , as far as I am aware NADA . You are akin to the corrupt officials who hide things or distort instances to , AHEM , save some face , in your post , in defense of the country you can never even become a citizen of , and are only considered as a (J)guest .

I didn't distort anything. Face-to-face fighting from road rage is rare here. One famous case of a deranged elite doing it doesn't make it a common occurrence.

I can become a citizen of this country. There's a very big thread on this forum on that subject.

You wonder why I chose to leave a beautifull country ? Partially because of insane behaviour by far too many of its citizens , anger seething beneeth the calm facade presented , only to erupt at a seconds notice , give it a little more time and I feel you will get the point .

It's not happened in over a decade of traveling the length and breadth of this country.

If you chose to leave here because of your own self-perceived "seething anger" is probably a good thing for both yourself and Thailand and I'm happy for you in peaceful Cambodia. I would just wonder why you seemingly spend so much time on a discussion board of somewhere you don't live. I mean, it's up to you, of course, but I just have difficulty understanding the motivations and time dedication to a place you obviously don't like and no longer reside in. Do you post this much on Cambodian discussion forums?

[/quote

It is difficult to discuss anything with you , you have your own personal bias and misconstrue my opinion from my perspective and experiences , you even failed to get the OP's point of what he said , do you have a difficulty actually understaning English as it is written or do your rosy glasses blur your vision ? The OP was the irate driver not the idiot who tailgated him !!!!!!!!!!!!!What I pointed out as the actions of irate Thai drivers has been recorded here on thaivisa many times , just because that has not been your experience travelling the length and breadth of Thailand does not in any way make other posters findings invalid .

I can spend as much time and dedication on any forum that accepts me as a member , where you get your 'percieved perception I do not like Thailand I have no idea , I have never said that or infered That Thailand is not a good country on any forum , quite the opposite in fact . Also , to enlighten you and bring you out into the sunlight , there are a multitude of members who do not reside in Thailand perse , but often post opinions and thoughts of thier own experiences when they visit or in fact spent several years in the country as I have done , keep in touch with friends who RESIDE in thailand and visit each other on occassion , that FACT seems to be beyond conception in your , what appears to be , convoluted manner of thinking .

The subacious seething anger was something I felt uncomfortable with with SOME Thai , you made it sound like a generality which it was not , it is my opinion to be accepted or not , the polite way would be to state your own opinion as apposed to decrying mine to elevate your vendetta against all and sundry that do not share your own bias .

I was brought up to be honest and open in my dealings with other people , if open honesty of thought does not suit YOUR criteria , may I ask you the same question "Why do spend so much time and dedication on an open forum where you cannot accept the opinions of other posters as they are presented "?

No more questions or answers , it has become rather pointless and off topic , goodbye .

[Buchholz]

The Nation's love in with Abhisit and the Dems continues unabated. Nice how they ignore any recent stories of Democrat corruption and blamed coalition partners for any problems.

Three recent 'Dodgy Dem' stories for starters . . .

Suthep's land on Samui - Suthep & Land never a good combination, looks like he didn't learn his lesson from the 1992 scandal which brought down the Democrat govt then.

Chuan Leekpai's son, whose only job experience since graduating from Ramhkhamheng Uni has been working at Chiang Mai zoo for a week and as an assistant to his Dad for a year, being given a Deputy spokesman's post at the Culture Ministry - with no interview required as the Culture Minister Nipit said 'Pluem' is a fast learner and he would like to see him become prime minister in the future.

And of course the 258 million baht donation from TPI to the Democrat Party. Just over 2 months ago, on July 13, the Office of the Attorney-General established a five-member prosecution team for the Democrat Party�s donation case which was forwarded to the Constitutional Court.

All these stories you can find on the Nations website. The emphasise may be a bit different than you like, but it's there. Also these cases as far as applicable are progressing as court cases.

Additionally, the severity of some of these so-called Dodgy Dem incidents pale in comparison to the multiple and much more serious cases of the Thieving Thai Rak Thai or the Pathetic People Power.

In going down the lengthy list of their atrocities, I would not have even bothered to include their appointment of Chalerm's son as Mr. Happy Toilet at anywhere near the top.

Edited September 22, 2010 by Buchholz

[tomyummer]

"The Thai Government Could Be Destroyed By Corruption"

Since when was it fixed and working?

[tomyummer]

I am driving my car along the road, minding my own business, when suddenly a car comes out of a junction right in front of me. It was either hit him or hit a bus in another lane. I had put the brakes hard on. I also beeped my horn and flashed my lights at the guy for doing this. For the other guy this was a sign that he did wrong. He then followed me for the next 10 minutes, going in front of me then braking hard and general intimidation. I think this highlights a fact that Thais will never admit they are wrong and if you say they are wrong they will get angry and come back at you double. It is very hard.

It is very hard and while I can understand your frustration with the driving incident, it helps to remember that road rage occurs in other places, too.

Thankfully, here it's rare that it gets to this point:

Dear Buchholz, I always find your posts intriguing with your links and fact checking. Thanks for this one. It made my day.

[Buchholz]

It is difficult to discuss anything with you,

I agree it's difficult to discuss anything with you because for the third time now, I've had to fix your quotes.

you have your own personal bias and misconstrue my opinion from my perspective and experiences , you even failed to get the OP's point of what he said , do you have a difficulty actually understaning English as it is written or do your rosy glasses blur your vision ?

The OP was the irate driver not the idiot who tailgated him !!!!!!!!!!!!!What I pointed out as the actions of irate Thai drivers has been recorded here on thaivisa many times , just because that has not been your experience travelling the length and breadth of Thailand does not in any way make other posters findings invalid .

No, I have no difficulty "understaning" English. I also did not fail to get what tony was saying.

I didn't say their findings were invalid, in fact I didn't say anything about anyone else's (whoever it is you're talking about) findings, but just to try keep it perspective, what I described earlier as a fistfight is not common. On a forum where every little incident gets logged in, there's been very few incidents of face-to-face fistfights, relatively speaking.

I can spend as much time and dedication on any forum that accepts me as a member , where you get your 'percieved perception I do not like Thailand I have no idea , I have never said that or infered That Thailand is not a good country on any forum , quite the opposite in fact .

sorry if I mistook your words:

You wonder why I chose to leave a beautifull country ? Partially because of insane behaviour by far too many of its citizens , anger seething beneeth the calm facade presented , only to erupt at a seconds notice

I should have taken that to mean you liked it here and that you found the people here are nice.

The subacious seething anger was something I felt uncomfortable with with SOME Thai , you made it sound like a generality which it was not , it is my opinion to be accepted or not , the polite way would be to state your own opinion as apposed to decrying mine to elevate your vendetta against all and sundry that do not share your own bias .

I was brought up to be honest and open in my dealings with other people , if open honesty of thought does not suit YOUR criteria , may I ask you the same question "Why do spend so much time and dedication on an open forum where you cannot accept the opinions of other posters as they are presented "?

No more questions or answers , it has become rather pointless and off topic , goodbye .

My vendetta against all and sundry? I don't see where you get that from a simple inclusion of bad behavior in the form of road rage not being an exclusive Thai trait. Why you feel compelled to drag this simple valid point out ad nauseum is beyond me.

Not sure again what you're talking about with the "open honesty of thought" ... but I am glad, however, you finally recognize that dragging this thing on and on as you have was wrong. As I said, it was a simple and valid point I made initially. It hardly calls for the above tirade... but also as said earlier, up to you, as to what you post.

[Buchholz]

Dear Buchholz, I always find your posts intriguing with your links and fact checking. Thanks for this one. It made my day.

Thank you.

It's reassuring that some, at least, can read it and understand the intent in which it was posted without going on a tirade.

[moe666]

I am driving my car along the road, minding my own business, when suddenly a car comes out of a junction right in front of me. It was either hit him or hit a bus in another lane. I had put the brakes hard on. I also beeped my horn and flashed my lights at the guy for doing this. For the other guy this was a sign that he did wrong. He then followed me for the next 10 minutes, going in front of me then braking hard and general intimidation. I think this highlights a fact that Thais will never admit they are wrong and if you say they are wrong they will get angry and come back at you double. It is very hard.

It is very hard and while I can understand your frustration with the driving incident, it helps to remember that road rage occurs in other places, too.

Thankfully, here it's rare that it gets to this point:

It is commendable that you notice road rage happens in other countries as well as Thailand , your last sentance is a stand out , the culprits rarely get apprehended and punished for thier inapropriate behavior AS IN OTHER COUNTRIES !!!!!!!!!

Shoot yourself in the foot ? Very Thai like I must say .

Actually, the reference was that what rarely happens here (perhaps it is different where you stay in Cambodia) is the face to face fist-fights like the one depicted in the video.

More commonly, what happens is as the poster described in the post earlier.

Where I live you move on or maybe you get shot in a road rage situation.

[moe666]

I think Thai people generally are corrupt to the core, in fact probably all SEA people from China down to Indonesia, I have never seen real honesty since I moved to Thailand 30 years ago, I have had over the years, 5 cameras stolen, money, phones, ornaments from the home, computers, motor cycles and even an entire business! etc, etc. If I wasn't wearing my clothes they would nick them as well, yes I have had shoes stolen from outside a temple!!!!

Please no "if you are complaining so much why don't you go home" comments.....

....Because I like being in Thailand for the following.... Decent Weather, Low Tax, easy to work, sometimes good sex, cheap transport, cheap accommodation and generally friendly people except they are probably eying you up to see what they can steel.

Stealing is not uncommon any where I moved into my new old house in 1993 I was broken into once a year for 5 years then it stopped. The person stealing my stuff either moved, was put in jail or decided I no longer had a thing worth stealing, I replaced nothing.

[yellow1red1]

Corruption in Bell, Calif

Here is some 'corruption' in the US,

yes it happens in farang land too, but look; they got caught and are going to jail.

Try to imagine a news story like TiT. times 10,000

with no free speech it aint gonna happen.

http://abcnews.go.co...fornia-11694066

There is nothing in Thailand that will stop you reporting or reporting about something like this, so it's nothing to do with your so called "no free speech".

are you meaning freedom of speech is established and prevalent in Thailand?

i would have to change my perception

Is the rate of corruption more, less or same as farang countries?

is rate of convictions same, more or less than West?

BTW good byline you have and 100% accurate. the rest/majority sit on hands , stand on sidelines, for survival reasons don't speak up so not go to jail and that's what they told me, " don't talk about politics might go to jail "

greed and corruption is behind all and get close to it, they WILL shut you up.

lip service and window dressing, allowed

party in power, Thaksin or Abhisit inherits censorship hammer

[animatic]

PAD, the Politburo AGAINST Democracy, a fascist leaning organization that want to deny voting rights to the majority, blatantly claiming the "rural poor are too stupid to vote", who wants a Parliament that is 70% appointed, with only 30% Elected, with those elected only being voted on by the Elites, and who wants to kick all foreigners out of Thailand. Oh, yeah, that's a party I can really stand behind.

Sorry, but PAD and Reconciliation is a major oxymoron and should NEVER be used in the same sentence, paragraph, or book.

Another brainwashed blogger!

Agree, although he (she/it ?) seems to have chosen his name wisely

The 70 / 30 idea was one of many brain storming ideas for political solutions, thrown out amongst many others on stage one night. It was never stated as a platform, or even more than 'something that could be discussed'. But the opposition grabbed it as if it were a core PAD value, and has run with it ever since, as if it were a legendary tenet of PAD philosophy.

Essentially the lowest form of political mudslinging in a free society.

If you dare to consider publicly a less than perfectly egalitarian idea, you are suddenly branded as if that less than stellar idea was part of your core value system, just for having discussed it.

And to see it repeatedly recycled as if it were facts,

says much more about those who try to repeat it as accusation,

than those who attempted to discuss it as concept.

Edited September 23, 2010 by animatic

[t36ony]

.nme.com

The topic went quickly from corruption to road rage, but the kid getting caught with that hard right hand in the video was worth it.

I heard about the Calif. thing too. The mayor was making twice as much as Obama. It happens everywhere. Here, the politics are so confusing, it's hard to get a grip on it. That's why they need a strong leader even if he's a thief himself. Philadelphia's slogan is "Corrupt but content." Meaning don't steal everything. Don't be a pig.

The topic of the car incident was an example of Thai people not recognising that they did wrong. And if you say they did wrong they get angry. There is no 'i'm sorry' which in some cases ends the situation. In most cases if the Thai person did wrong and you disagree with that, you have a problem because you are saying something. It ends up that the person that said 'that is wrong' is the person who ends up in the wrong (they have 'jao lorn' (hot heart). This relates to the Politicians who if you say they did wrong they will get angry and defend themsleves, they will never admit they are wrong.

[SamritT]

Thailand used to have lots of corruption. PAD & the coup did a good job in removing Thaksin. Since then 99.99% of the corruption was wipe out. Yes, 0.01% still remains and is being taken are of by Mark one by one. The 4,000 Bus, the computer purchase, the doctor budget, the audit general office mess, etc. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . The 70 / 30 idea was a noble one. Most of the people in my country are lightly educated, especially in the North & Issan, hence a one person one vote thing of the west will not work here, YET. Maybe in the future. Sondhi is both clever and brave, and should be SELECTED (not elected) to be the next PM.

[dumball]

t36ony' timestamp='1285204127' post='3900972']

.nme.com

'Shotime' timestamp='1285144791' post='3899659']

The topic went quickly from corruption to road rage, but the kid getting caught with that hard right hand in the video was worth it.

I heard about the Calif. thing too. The mayor was making twice as much as Obama. It happens everywhere. Here, the politics are so confusing, it's hard to get a grip on it. That's why they need a strong leader even if he's a thief himself. Philadelphia's slogan is "Corrupt but content." Meaning don't steal everything. Don't be a pig.]

The topic of the car incident was an example of Thai people not recognising that they did wrong. And if you say they did wrong they get angry. There is no 'i'm sorry' which in some cases ends the situation. In most cases if the Thai person did wrong and you disagree with that, you have a problem because you are saying something. It ends up that the person that said 'that is wrong' is the person who ends up in the wrong (they have 'jao lorn' (hot heart). This relates to the Politicians who if you say they did wrong they will get angry and defend themsleves, they will never admit they are wrong.

These are two of the points I was eroniously trying to make , it would have been so much easier to have learned the deaf sign language before making that attempt , Thai are never wrong and are rarely punished for thier misdeeds , the seething anger under the pleasant facade quickly comes to the surface if you have the audacity to take thier 'Face' away .

Thank you for the back up in an unsolvable debate that was only one way , his way or the highway .

[Ricardo]

Thailand used to have lots of corruption. PAD & the coup did a good job in removing Thaksin. Since then 99.99% of the corruption was wipe out. Yes, 0.01% still remains and is being taken are of by Mark one by one. The 4,000 Bus, the computer purchase, the doctor budget, the audit general office mess, etc. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . The 70 / 30 idea was a noble one. Most of the people in my country are lightly educated, especially in the North & Issan, hence a one person one vote thing of the west will not work here, YET. Maybe in the future. Sondhi is both clever and brave, and should be SELECTED (not elected) to be the next PM.

"Since then 99.99% of the corruption was wipe out".

If one were to accept your statement as true, then I can only stand in-awe at PM-Samak & PM-Somchai's historic achievement, however I don't recall them being quite so active in the anti-corruption arena as you suggest.

Perhaps these able politicians did good deeds, but refused to take any credit or publicity, through personal modesty ?

[chainarong]

The wording, Could be, should read , has been.