Fire Balls Shooting Skyward

[RDN]

... Probaly a bit odd to have an englisgh word in the chinese dictionary aye RDN?

...it happens at many times of the year...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We need dates!! Where can we get the dates?

[bkkmadness]

Its on Buddhist Lent or the end of it, I think November 15th?

Book rooms early its packed up there. I was lucky when I went in 2003 to find a room, and the first day was torrential rain so could only go to see it the next night (it latsts a couple of days). Last year meant to be lots of rain too so I don't think many were sighted but in 2002 more than 800 fireballs were witnessed according to the Bangkok post.

I've looked at some pics of it on the net and it looks o packed out there but me and the gf just rented a bike, followed a group of thais up there and there was perhaps only 200 thai people sitting round watching it. Plenty of whiskey and grub though, but no marmite RDN!

I was really skeptical, but when the first fireballs went up great cheer from the crowd and it was a great moment in Thailand, real good feeling up there. Defo worth a visit.

[Bangkokbutcher]

How comes all the previous dates have been in October??

[chownah]

I believe it happens on the full moon preceding Loi Khratung.....its a huge huge party and if your into that sort of thing then definitely go...but do book early as the entire Chiangwat of Nong Khai is totally packed includling Thais camping at every wat.

[aletta]

I've seen them and still not sure what they are.Not like a rocket or a tracer bullet.Look like fast moving red globes,moving with uniform velocity.Very odd but a great night out on the river bank.

[RDN]

... Plenty of whiskey and grub though, but no marmite RDN! .....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It sounds really good! I'll bring some Marmite sarnies (=sandwiches, for non-Brits.)

Blimey - I've just had a look on the map. Couldn't get much further from Phuket, could it? About 1500 km . So that's the pick-up trip out of it. Where's the nearest airport?

[Bangkokbutcher]

Udon Thani

[aletta]

...and then a 80 minute drive on a good day.Once you hit Nong Khai the traffic can be horrendous.Travel very early to avoid the queues.

[RDN]

...and then a 80 minute drive on a good day.Once you hit Nong Khai the traffic can be horrendous.Travel very early to avoid the queues.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmm, about 60 km?

[sabaijai]

The naga fireballs occur on and off for a couple of weeks on either side of the full moon that time of year. One of the best places to watch is a village called Ban Ahong, at Wat Pa Ahong Silawat or at the adjacent Hideway Guest House, both right on the river. It's a little bit quieter here than at Phonphisai itself (though less so than it was before 2002).

What has contributed most to the huge crowds in recent years was the 2002 release of the film Sip Haa Kham Deuan Sip-et, or' Fifteenth Waxing Moon of the Eleventh Lunar Month'. The film was released with English subtitles under the title Mekhong Full Moon Party, highly recommended for anyone who hasn't seen it.

I'd suggest that if you want to see the lights without the crowds, come a week before and stay two or three nights in Ban Ahong, either at the wat, the guesthouse (if it's still there, I haven't been in a few years) at at the school (where I stayed once, very hospitable).

Some years there are fewer lights than others. Pretty eerie sight whatever the cause. I would go with the 'natural phenomena' explanation myself, don't see how any group of people could fake this for so many years and not have someone spill the beans. And at Ban Ahong the Mekong is narrow enough that if there were any boats on the river, they would be clearly visible under the light of the full moon.

[Kringle]

Where are the pics of this great event? Where is any proof of what causes this to happen? Just another hoax brought about to real in money just like some of the fake waterfalls (water is pumped in to creat it) here in Thailand. If I remember correctly there is one of those fake waterfalls in Chiang Mai.

[bkkmadness]

Where are the pics of this great event? Where is any proof of what causes this to happen? Just another hoax brought about to real in money just like some of the fake waterfalls (water is pumped in to creat it) here in Thailand. If I remember correctly there is one of those fake waterfalls in Chiang Mai.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pics are everywhere, do a search on google for them, thousands upon thousands of witnesses and filmed footage also.

No proof as yet as to what causes it to happen but one researcher feels sure it is methane gas. If you ever saw it you would understand it wqould be a very hard hoax to create, not quite as simple as pumping water, but if you have any suggestions on it I will listen cause I'm open minded.

Perhaps you should get some info on it before you dismiss it as another Thai scam so easily.

[daveh]

Where are the pics of this great event? Where is any proof of what causes this to happen? Just another hoax brought about to real in money just like some of the fake waterfalls (water is pumped in to creat it) here in Thailand. If I remember correctly there is one of those fake waterfalls in Chiang Mai.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Pics are everywhere, do a search on google for them, thousands upon thousands of witnesses and filmed footage also.

No proof as yet as to what causes it to happen but one researcher feels sure it is methane gas. If you ever saw it you would understand it wqould be a very hard hoax to create, not quite as simple as pumping water, but if you have any suggestions on it I will listen cause I'm open minded.

Perhaps you should get some info on it before you dismiss it as another Thai scam so easily.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I did a Google search and haven't found any pictures. So I guess your version of everywhere is different than mine.

Dave.

[bkkmadness]

Ah, maybe not many pics on google then, what search terms did you use?.

Film footage is easily seen every year around the time on Thai Tv, but I dont know where you could find this.

Perhaps you should go up there yourself?

So I guess your version of everywhere is different than mine.

I hope so.

[daveh]

Ah, maybe not many pics on google then, what search terms did you use?.

Film footage is easily seen every year around the time on Thai Tv, but I dont know where you could find this.

Perhaps you should go up there yourself?

I used naga fireballs, and mekong fireballs. I used both image search and web search at Google. None of them had any sizeable photos. There was one that I *think* may have been a photo, but it about 100x100pixels, too small to see.

All I've found is stories of people either seeing them or going up there and not seeing them. Yet, no one seems to have been there with a camera and put a picture on the web.

Personally, I think it is a scam to get people to "... go up there ..." to see for themselves, as you state.

[Lojack25]

I think they would get a crowd even if they said it was a fireworks show on the river. Furthermore, why is there even a question, with todays technologoy they can easily monitor whatever is happening both on under the surface and come to some sort of conclusion. the fact that it's still a "mystery" when it can be easily researched, makes me think it is more then likely to be man made. Still, it sounds like something fun to check out regardless of what it is.

[sabaijai]

I think they would get a crowd even if they said it was a fireworks show on the river. Furthermore, why is there even a question, with todays technologoy they can easily monitor whatever is happening both on under the surface and come to some sort of conclusion. the fact that it's still a "mystery" when it can be easily researched, makes me think it is more then likely to be man made. Still, it sounds like something fun to check out regardless of what it is.

You could turn that argument around. If it were man-made, surely someone would know what was going on and how it was accomplished. I doubt the secret could be this long, with written records going back nearly a century. I've seen the lights myself and can tell you they look nothing like fireworks. No smoke.

In fact there are Thai scientists who have investigated the phenom for several years now, and put forth the gas-release hypothesis. At some point a team needs to dive to the river bottom to measure this, but I understand it's not that easy to set up - very strong currents in that section of the river.

[chownah]

I think they would get a crowd even if they said it was a fireworks show on the river. Furthermore, why is there even a question, with todays technologoy they can easily monitor whatever is happening both on under the surface and come to some sort of conclusion. the fact that it's still a "mystery" when it can be easily researched, makes me think it is more then likely to be man made. Still, it sounds like something fun to check out regardless of what it is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You could turn that argument around. If it were man-made, surely someone would know what was going on and how it was accomplished. I doubt the secret could be this long, with written records going back nearly a century. I've seen the lights myself and can tell you they look nothing like fireworks. No smoke.

In fact there are Thai scientists who have investigated the phenom for several years now, and put forth the gas-release hypothesis. At some point a team needs to dive to the river bottom to measure this, but I understand it's not that easy to set up - very strong currents in that section of the river.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I was under the impression that it happens along a huge stretch of the river...seems unlikely that there are strong currents everywhere along that stretch...if my memory serves me correctly you can walk across the river when the water is low in many places...and in my memory it just doesn't seem like there are strong currents at the places where I've been. Also I've wondered what ignites these gas pockets. I have taken flammable gases, mixed them with air and filled balloons with these mixtures....WARNING, THIS IS VERY VERY DANGEROUS TO DO AND I DON'T RECOMMEND THAT YOU TRY THIS AT HOME. THIS EXPERIMENT WAS CARRIED OUT BY A KNOWN LUNATIC AND YOU COULD EASILY CAUSE MASSIVE DAMAGE TO YOURSELF AND OTHERS...they do not spontaneously ignite, it takes a spark or flame to set them off. I have not been able to imagine what could be igniting these rising gas pockets even if they do exist naturally...which I doubt because if the currents were strong then the biomass needed to decompose to make the gas would not settle there...of course pockets of petroleum based natural gas is a remote possibility...but still...what is igniting them?

[sabaijai]

Ah, maybe not many pics on google then, what search terms did you use?.

Film footage is easily seen every year around the time on Thai Tv, but I dont know where you could find this.

Perhaps you should go up there yourself?

I used naga fireballs, and mekong fireballs. I used both image search and web search at Google. None of them had any sizeable photos. There was one that I *think* may have been a photo, but it about 100x100pixels, too small to see.

All I've found is stories of people either seeing them or going up there and not seeing them. Yet, no one seems to have been there with a camera and put a picture on the web.

Personally, I think it is a scam to get people to "... go up there ..." to see for themselves, as you state.

Try searching for "swamp gas" or "foxfire", as the phenom is similar (if that's what the naga lights are, and that's what Thai scientists think it is).

I can confirm bkkmadness's point that the lights are televised every year - live - on Thai TV news.

At least scientists have an explanation for it. Sceptism is one thing, but uninformed speculation another altogether.

[chownah]

Ah, maybe not many pics on google then, what search terms did you use?.

Film footage is easily seen every year around the time on Thai Tv, but I dont know where you could find this.

Perhaps you should go up there yourself?

I used naga fireballs, and mekong fireballs. I used both image search and web search at Google. None of them had any sizeable photos. There was one that I *think* may have been a photo, but it about 100x100pixels, too small to see.

All I've found is stories of people either seeing them or going up there and not seeing them. Yet, no one seems to have been there with a camera and put a picture on the web.

Personally, I think it is a scam to get people to "... go up there ..." to see for themselves, as you state.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Try searching for "swamp gas" or "foxfire", as the phenom is similar (if that's what the naga lights are, and that's what Thai scientists think it is).

I can confirm bkkmadness's point that the lights are televised every year - live - on Thai TV news.

At least scientists have an explanation for it. Sceptism is one thing, but uninformed speculation another altogether.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You have made two assertions that I would like to verify. The first one is that there are historical records of these events consisting of written records that go back almost a century. Do you know where these written records are kept? Secondly, you say that Thai scientists have investigated this phenomen in recent years. Do you know where I can find out about this? The only thing I've seen from any scientists concerning this I put into the category of 'wild speculations'. One scientist (from Khon Kaen U, I think) said he was going to investigate and it caused such an uproar from the locals that he had to make it very clear that he wasn't going to actually go to where it happened and check out the conditions there for fear that he might upset the delicate balance of whatever was causing it...hahhahahaha.....science Thai style....hahahhahaha........

[sabaijai]

I think they would get a crowd even if they said it was a fireworks show on the river. Furthermore, why is there even a question, with todays technologoy they can easily monitor whatever is happening both on under the surface and come to some sort of conclusion. the fact that it's still a "mystery" when it can be easily researched, makes me think it is more then likely to be man made. Still, it sounds like something fun to check out regardless of what it is.

You could turn that argument around. If it were man-made, surely someone would know what was going on and how it was accomplished. I doubt the secret could be this long, with written records going back nearly a century. I've seen the lights myself and can tell you they look nothing like fireworks. No smoke.

In fact there are Thai scientists who have investigated the phenom for several years now, and put forth the gas-release hypothesis. At some point a team needs to dive to the river bottom to measure this, but I understand it's not that easy to set up - very strong currents in that section of the river.

I was under the impression that it happens along a huge stretch of the river...seems unlikely that there are strong currents everywhere along that stretch...if my memory serves me correctly you can walk across the river when the water is low in many places...and in my memory it just doesn't seem like there are strong currents at the places where I've been. Also I've wondered what ignites these gas pockets. I have taken flammable gases, mixed them with air and filled balloons with these mixtures....WARNING, THIS IS VERY VERY DANGEROUS TO DO AND I DON'T RECOMMEND THAT YOU TRY THIS AT HOME. THIS EXPERIMENT WAS CARRIED OUT BY A KNOWN LUNATIC AND YOU COULD EASILY CAUSE MASSIVE DAMAGE TO YOURSELF AND OTHERS...they do not spontaneously ignite, it takes a spark or flame to set them off. I have not been able to imagine what could be igniting these rising gas pockets even if they do exist naturally...which I doubt because if the currents were strong then the biomass needed to decompose to make the gas would not settle there...of course pockets of petroleum based natural gas is a remote possibility...but still...what is igniting them?

Yes a huge stretch of river, and the lights do pop up other times of year, just seem to be most concentrated in late Oct/early Nov, whether it's because the river is usually at its greatest volume then or whether it's because, as one researcher thinks, the sun's gravitation is strongest that time of year.

At any rate during the dry season when volume is way down, the currents might not be so bad but by the end of the rains they're treacherous. I've talked to John Everingham, who scuba-dived crossed the rain-swollen Mekong to escape Laos back in the 70s, about Mekong currents and he said the flow is almost unmanageable for a diver, even an experienced one, especially if you are not in visual contact with the riverbanks. There are violent whirlpools to contend with and the water is so murky during or following the rains that visibility is zero. John followed a compass mounted in his facemask, and even then - when he got caught in whirlpools for example - it was not always possible to read.

The currents grow stronger along the middle reaches of the Mekong southeast of Vientiane, eventually become heavy rapids and waterfalls south of Pakse.

[Lojack25]

I think they would get a crowd even if they said it was a fireworks show on the river. Furthermore, why is there even a question, with todays technologoy they can easily monitor whatever is happening both on under the surface and come to some sort of conclusion. the fact that it's still a "mystery" when it can be easily researched, makes me think it is more then likely to be man made. Still, it sounds like something fun to check out regardless of what it is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You could turn that argument around. If it were man-made, surely someone would know what was going on and how it was accomplished. I doubt the secret could be this long, with written records going back nearly a century. I've seen the lights myself and can tell you they look nothing like fireworks. No smoke.

In fact there are Thai scientists who have investigated the phenom for several years now, and put forth the gas-release hypothesis. At some point a team needs to dive to the river bottom to measure this, but I understand it's not that easy to set up - very strong currents in that section of the river.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sure Sabai, i totally agree with ya, it could go either way. Plus if the currents are strong the fireballs may not even originate from where they rise to break the surface. Like i said, it's still interesting and I probably will try and check it out if I get the chance.

[chownah]

I think they would get a crowd even if they said it was a fireworks show on the river. Furthermore, why is there even a question, with todays technologoy they can easily monitor whatever is happening both on under the surface and come to some sort of conclusion. the fact that it's still a "mystery" when it can be easily researched, makes me think it is more then likely to be man made. Still, it sounds like something fun to check out regardless of what it is.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You could turn that argument around. If it were man-made, surely someone would know what was going on and how it was accomplished. I doubt the secret could be this long, with written records going back nearly a century. I've seen the lights myself and can tell you they look nothing like fireworks. No smoke.

In fact there are Thai scientists who have investigated the phenom for several years now, and put forth the gas-release hypothesis. At some point a team needs to dive to the river bottom to measure this, but I understand it's not that easy to set up - very strong currents in that section of the river.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sure Sabai, i totally agree with ya, it could go either way. Plus if the currents are strong the fireballs may not even originate from where they rise to break the surface. Like i said, it's still interesting and I probably will try and check it out if I get the chance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with you completely...its a great party and if anyone is into ginormous parties this is one you won't want to miss...its probably one of the longest parties in the world...probably over 50 km long although I've only personally seen about 20 km of it myself.........but I keep hearing people talk about nearly 100 years of written accounts of sitings of these fireballs but no one seems to know where these written records are kept...makes me think they don't exist and its just a rumor that keeps being spread around. Also people keep talking about scientific studies and I keep asking where are these studies and no one seems to know...maybe they're myths too. I have heard of one scientist but what I heard about this was a joke... Where do people get these stories about scientific investigation of this phenomenon? When I first heard about these fireballs (about 6 years ago) I was teaching in Nong Khai and the locals all said that they ALWAYS happen at the full moon in October but now people say they happen on many days throughout the year. The theory that the moons gravitation causes them to happen at the full moon is scientifically a very remote theory with almost 0% chance of being true.

What is the basis for all these rumors?

[Tarragona]

Also people keep talking about scientific studies and I keep asking where are these studies and no one seems to know...maybe they're myths too.  I have heard of one scientist but what I heard about this was a joke...

You can try this website:

http://www.bangfaipayanak.com/

All a bit dry though.

[Head Snake]

I will have to ask my gf about this. No, she is not a scientist but a local resident in that area. I value her input. Most likely, she will tell me its ghosts and I'll have to believe her.

Scientifically, I would have to side with those who question how the gases emit color. Most assume something must ignite the gases.

The northern lights get their glow from solar winds. Those are not the case with Mekhong river as this is done at night. Ahhl but who says these fireballs only occur at night? Has anybody bothered to check if they happen in the day?

Friction?? doubtful

gas Flashpoint??

static electricity - doubtful

What about those large lightning produced from clouds to statosphere? Could the Mekhong provide a smaller model for that phenomena?

So what's with the color and no sound. THere has to be a sound made; even if its just a wispy fart.

[bannork]

...and then a 80 minute drive on a good day.Once you hit Nong Khai the traffic can be horrendous.Travel very early to avoid the queues.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hmm, about 60 km?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There's my home on the right, Ban Dung,(pronouced Doong with a short vowel sound!). 2 years ago self and wife were riding along when we saw a crowd gathered in a field. Curious, we stopped and troopsed over to the scene. The field was a paddy and there was a hollowed out shape amongst the rice stubble. The crowd believed it to be a footmark or print of the naga. We were about 50 odd kilometres from the Mekhong river so I asked why its footprint would appear in a field far away. 'There's caverns or tunnels running from the Mekhong, sometimes the Naga likes to roam around', was the answer!

As mentioned the crowds and traffic jams have been horrendous the last few years, it might be better to view from the Lao side.

[chownah]

Also people keep talking about scientific studies and I keep asking where are these studies and no one seems to know...maybe they're myths too.  I have heard of one scientist but what I heard about this was a joke...

You can try this website:

http://www.bangfaipayanak.com/

All a bit dry though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I took a look and it in Thai and I couldn't find a button for English....is there one?

[Tarragona]

I took a look and it in Thai and I couldn't find a button for English....is there one?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sorry, no.

[sriracha john]

As a witness to the event, I can add my own personal take. First, definitely not tracer rounds. I have a lot of experience with firearms and these are NOT tracer rounds. Secondly, as proposed by the movie of a diver releasing chemical compound balls; no way. I did however enjoy the movie... particularly the clarity showing the swimmer underwater in the Mekhong. As someone who has swam in it, it is definitely has a visibility of about 3 inches...Various gasses released? Doubtful they would do so with such regularity. Too many variables in Nature for it occur so regularly. Conclusion?... who knows... by process of elimination, Naga is the most plausible I've heard.

Well worth a trip to witness and draw your own conclusions.

[The Skipper]

Seems to me the most likely explanation is a hoax.

I imagine someone is floating a propane or natural gas tank, teathered upstream somewhere with an ignition system.

Probably the guy that owns the property adjacent to this activity.