Who Pays, Renter Or Owner?

[tourist43]

Renting a house. The water pump is dying, and the landlord says it's my responsibility to pay part of the cost of replacement. Is that correct?

[Velocette]

I should bleedin' co co . . . his audacity is staggering, I'm nearly speechless . . .unless of course you've signed a 'Full repairing lease' for the place ? . .which is highly unlikely. If you signed a lease agreement you should get someone to translate it for you.

As it's his property ,why should you invest in it, apart from paying rent, when you leave are you expected to take your part of the pump with you? . .it defys all logic that I know of. So it seems he's really trying it on, if you were foolish enough to pay, you would have set a precedent for contributing to ALL future repairs to his property which is insane. My wife who is Thai says he is just trying it on as you are a farang, and that no Thai would pay.

Equally it is not easy for landlords to find tenants, so perhaps you should be firm with him and tell him that if he INSISTS on you paying that you will leave. That should put him back in his box. This kind of financial bullying and opportunism makes me want to reach for my magnum

[BB1950]

Failure due to normal wear and tear. The responsibility is usually to the owner to maintain or replace.

TIT, and it's a civil case. So trying to get it enforced is another thing. It may cost you more to hire an attorney and etc... than to replace the pump. Then there's the time to judgment issue.

Some owners know this and won't do anything about making repairs.

I suggest you find a new house with a better owner. Most likely the owner will also hold out on returning your deposit to you.

You don't have a lot of recourse in this country.

Good Luck!

[sevenhills]

Just another Thai extortion scam on us Farang. It is his responsibility, so tell him that.

You are only renting the place, not buying it.

Edited September 26, 2010 by sevenhills

[tourist43]

Aw, come on, Velocette, just tell us what you really think!

I will definitely have my rental agreement looked at, as you suggest. Your point of view seems very sensible to me, but then I don't know Thai law (yes, I know the custom).

It would be nice to know what the landlord might use as an argument to make me pay. Has anyone had a similar experience?

Added: no, I won't pay a lawyer, and I won't try to go to court. I have thought about buying a new pump, having it installed, storing the failing (but not dead yet) pump and having it reinstalled when I move...while taking my pump with me. A fantasy, but fun. Moving now is pretty much out of the question, but I could look -- trouble is, it took forever to find this place, and moving is such a huge pain. Threaten to move? I think my bluff would be called.

I wonder whether any locals ever read the posts here, just to see how we talk about how we are treated....

[Jingthing]

When I used to be a renter not in Thailand, my rule of thumb was if a maintenance issue was not expensive or difficult, do it myself IF they rent was a good value, so as to be seen as a non-bothersome tenant. Of course, if there was an expensive problem, yeah they would need to fix it, and if not, that would be normally be legally grounds to walk away from a long lease.

[PMK]

Added: no, I won't pay a lawyer, and I won't try to go to court. I have thought about buying a new pump, having it installed, storing the failing (but not dead yet) pump and having it reinstalled when I move...while taking my pump with me. A fantasy, but fun.

I wonder whether any locals ever read the posts here, just to see how we talk about how we are treated....

It's not just farangs that get treated that way. I have Thai family that rents and they get screwed on deposits and have problems like this as well.

Practically speaking, your idea need not be a fantasy. It is very easy to change a water pump.

[stgrhe]

This is what the law says:

Section 547 of the Civil and Commercial Code

The letter (owner) is bound to reimburse to the hirer any necessary and reasonable expenses incurred by him for preservation of the property hired, expect expenses for ordinary maintenance and petty repairs.

Section 547 of the Civil and Commercial Code

The letter is liable for any defects which arise during the continuance of the contract and he must make all the repairs which may become necessary, except those which by law or custom to be done by the hirer.

[tourist43]

Yeah, that's my idea, too -- fix the toilets, take care of the place, and so on. I think I've spoiled the owner. There's no long-term lease, and I'm free to go any time, but then if I go under nasty circumstances, I may have a real fuss getting my deposit back. The last time I moved out (of a condo), the management decided to give my tail a twist: they told the team I had hired to move me that they could not use the elevator that was big enough to handle the beds. I was on the 12th floor. My workers simply stopped, and were about to walk off. As soon as I tumbled to the problem, I went to the office to explain the facts of life to management. The discussion was brief, noisy, and effective. Yes, they tried it once more before we got everything out. (Heavy sigh.) I think they enjoyed the theatrics.

Edit: Oh, so that's the law! Excellent, thanks, stgrhe. Knowing the section number of the code just might help. I don't know about arguing over the words "ordinary" and "custom," though -- those sound slippery.

Edited September 26, 2010 by tourist43

[BB1950]

I just thought of another idea. If he doesn't pay to replace it or repair it, deduct the bill from the rent. Put the ball in his court to try to collect.

[lovelomsak]

I would go the route of installing it and keeping the old one and put the older one back in when you move. Who knows the next place maynot have one and it can come in handy. My place didnot have a hot water shower heater I installed one at my cost {3900Baht) now 2 years later I feel I got my moneys worth because the rent is cheap and it is good neighbourhood that is quiet. Oh if no lease donot even dream of getting the deposit back. Just add the deposit to the cost of renting.

[tourist43]

Ye gods, there ought to be a way to resolve stuff like this without hiring lawyers. I'll start by laughing off the demand that I pay for part of the silly pump, and meanwhile price pumps. And take a close look at how that thing is connected up.

Thanks to everybody; this has been helpful, so I'm glad I posted. I appreciate all the comments!

[scorecard]

Maybe get your wife to get a couple of quotations to fix the pump.

If it's not too much then pay for the repairs (before you tell the owner and let him/her have the opportunity to demand full new pump) and forget about it. Better than getting all torn up about the situation.

Several times i've had pump problems which have been fixed for very little cost.

[aussiebebe]

I've rented three homes in Thailand and there is no doubt in my mind that the owner should pay to replace the pump. In fact my last landlord did exactly that, certainly no need to involve lawyers. The idea of a tenant buying a pump and then reinstalling the old broken one when they move is pragmatic; I've always bought my own air conditioners and water heaters and would never dream of leaving them when I move.

[evanson]

I rented a house for five years. The week after we moved in the water pump packed up on us. SigOth informed the landlord who said 'well, buy another one then!'

Don't know where all you posters thinking about hiring lawyers - Court process 2 years or more - where do you think you all are? Chipping bloody Sodbury?

Just buy another one and do what the poster who said he took all his aircon, pumps, whatever with him when he left. That's what the Thai landlords expect, and exactly what our landlord got.

[dave111223]

An average pump is around 4,000-5,000THB, and install it yourself, or pay a few hundred to one of the technicians at the hardware store to install it.

When move out sell it back to the hardware store (maybe 1000-2000?). Probably end up costing about the same as paying "part of the cost", but at least the landlord doesn't get to keep a new water pump of the next 10 years.

Alternatively see if you can find a mechanic that than eek the last drops of life out of the pump until the end of the lease. We had a problem with a landlord wanting us to pay for a failing aircon in a commercial property, we had a mechanic "repair" it with old scrap parts etc..and it just about lasted the remaining 2 months on the lease.

[katabeachbum]

This is what the law says:

Section 547 of the Civil and Commercial Code

The letter (owner) is bound to reimburse to the hirer any necessary and reasonable expenses incurred by him for preservation of the property hired, expect expenses for ordinary maintenance and petty repairs.

Section 547 of the Civil and Commercial Code

The letter is liable for any defects which arise during the continuance of the contract and he must make all the repairs which may become necessary, except those which by law or custom to be done by the hirer.

IOW, its owners responsibility to keep the roof ok, while its tenants responsibility to repair/maintain the rest

Installing a new pump and take it with you works fine, as long as you leave a working pump when you move out

[Furbie]

My landlords have always paid for any repairs of this nature – in condos, I had two AC compressors go, they replaced them no problem. Had a bathtub crack, replaced no problem. Renting a house, had an AC compressor go, replaced no problem. As I recall, every lease I have signed in Thailand was quite clear – I pay anything under 2,000 THB, the landlord pays for anything over this. My current lease includes the regular cleaning and maintenance on the ACs as well.

[thrilled]

If I really liked living there,I think I would probably bite the bullet.If I thought the place was to overpriced,then he would either fix it or i'd be out of there.

[powderpuff]

My lease says 2000 baht & under I pay. Above 2000 baht owner pays.

My landlord is not a hardass though.

I have installed a bunch of stuff to his condo which is staying (like a hot water heater).