Pigs 101 (A Start)

[Allgeier]

This Photos i made last year at a local pigfarmer. I will call this pig "High class" .

Feed with SPM Feed.

And i hope in the future my pig's will look like this. But there couldnt tell me what kind of breed it is.

On the video there are my pig. The sow is a LR and the Boar a Doroc. There have all about 120 kg but the Ham is small. I will call this normal for LR + DU. At this time i feed them with Balance to about 60 or 80 kg and after my own mixed feed.

https://youtu.be/eQc_dFCltKU

In my thinking :

To 80 kg i make the feed shop happy and after 80 to 120 kg i will make me happy. And both side should be happy.

I not like to dependend only from the feed from the shop. Last month i sold some pig for 56 Bath/kg. If i must buy the piglet + the feed and i should sell them after with 100 kg. Where is the Profit?

The Profit made the feedshop.

Some breed are made for ham and another one are more for fat or bacon. It's depend what the people like. But if a pig with 80 kg is fat. In my eyes the it's to late to change somethink. Because the body strukture and the meat is builded earlier. After there grow only on weight.

There should be a better classification when the pig's alive. This what i can see is that a normal pig brings the some price like this hybrid pig.

Or maybe normal for here?

Edited April 20, 2016 by Allgeier

[revar]

Yes. That is the point. Its normal here.

The pig buyers ( market /carb butchers) you normally sell to do not care much about quality and different meat types. They sell 3 types. Red meat, bacon and ribs. Only good restaurants and foodcompanies are generally prepared to pay extra for special cuts and quality. But these usualy won't buy village pigs. They buy farm pigs and often the definition of a farm.pig includes guarantees regarding feed, disease free certifications, vet checks, use of medicines etc.

Only a few will buy from small farmers because these can't prove/guarantee the quality and/or can't supply the quantity needed.

Like in all businesses in Thailand it takes time to find the right contacts, establish trusting relationships and to establish a reputation of quality. Those on here who can make a living from.pig farming have been at it for years.

I have had a small pigfarm for 5+ years now. Been a reseller for a betagro food shop, been the unoffocial vet in my area. Did quality checks/ found pigs for a big buyer who supplied major food company,

Organised seminars and trainings for village farmers. Arranged regular vet visits. Build a name for myself as supplying high quality pigs and gradually got more and better contacts.

All this has now resulted in being asked by inteq ( perfecq feed)to become the area seller of their feed and advisor to the village farmers in the region.

I am however still free to sell my pigs to other buyers too.

Today they were buying for thb 64/kg. Another of my buyers at 67. I sold for 67. They guarantee to buy your pigs but you are free to sell to others too.

So my advice is to put a lot of effort and time into finding buyers and building relationships with feed suppliers, vets and others in the business. And most of all produce a quality product.

Edited April 20, 2016 by revar

[Allgeier]

The pig buyers ( market /carb butchers) you normally sell to do not care much about quality and different meat types.

high quality pigs

Today they were buying for thb 64/kg. Another of my buyers at 67. I sold for 67. They guarantee to buy your pigs but you are free to sell to others too.

I not thinking about the meattype. I thinking about pig witch less meat or more meat. Hybrid = more meat, LR,DU = less Meat

Now it's my question what is a high quality pig in your eyes? And maybe show a photo.

On swinethailand is the price this days about 70 Bath/kg. Here is one Farmer who get this price?

[Mosha]

OK it's gone, just gotta keep nagging so she see the put yai. Wish they'd gone for chickens. Looks like our egg man has retired.

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They've replaced all the piglets that died. At least 2 dozen from the looks of it.

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[thoongfoned]

OK it's gone, just gotta keep nagging so she see the put yai. Wish they'd gone for chickens. Looks like our egg man has retired.

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They've replaced all the piglets that died. At least 2 dozen from the looks of it.

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if you have new pigs make sure the "pen" - area they live in is disinfected and left to dry before putting in new piglets. i would say leave the dodgy area they died in as long a poss....... min one day, the longer the better..... helps to kill the bacteria.

[Mosha]

We only lost 1 of the two, and he's healthy. We got a sow this time I think. She was straight at the food. Living space is dry, I still think the village should have gone for chickens.

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[jompa67]

Anyone know if there is a reason for the raise in piglet price. A the moment the recommended price is 2600 bath per 16 Kg piglet. The most annoying thing is that there is nobody who is willing to pay such a high price. In 4 months when it is time to sell 100 Kg pig, the price can in best case be at the same level as today. That means a very low margin and a very high risk for the buyer.

Why does the government allow that prices fluctuate so much?

[thoongfoned]

I think that in pigs in Thailand like most business ect in other parts of the world, the product you have for sale is only worth what ever you can sell for. ie disregarding

"book" or "list" price that are published.

eg. family member has some pigs for sale. wants to sell asap. has local buyers come round, all come in around the same money give or take a thousand baht....... the "boss" my wife knows a

firm that pick up the farms castoff sows, guy was over yesterday, had him go over and take a look at said pigs, today he picked them up at approx. 35 percent more than other buyers were

willing to pay, he also has to travel a good few km to come to the village, wife even got a box of beer out of him too. sometimes lucky sometimes not.

looking at the sows that are for AI tonight and I see that we have the eldest parity sow coming in to night, 13. she still looks a good pig, if not a little large-fat. the lowest she has weaned so far is 10.

[Robert24]

Anyone know if there is a reason for the raise in piglet price. A the moment the recommended price is 2600 bath per 16 Kg piglet. The most annoying thing is that there is nobody who is willing to pay such a high price. In 4 months when it is time to sell 100 Kg pig, the price can in best case be at the same level as today. That means a very low margin and a very high risk for the buyer.

Why does the government allow that prices fluctuate so much?

there is a market for pig price and it's dependent on supply/demand. Price for piglets usually follow the price for grown pigs etc. the price for grown pigs can either go up or down depending on the market. Not sure why you think it can't go up and what the role of the government should be in the market for pigs or piglets. I also stopped buying piglets and have now my own mom pigs, simply because it allows me to take some more cost out, but there are some other downsides with it which I can ellaborate more if you like.

[revar]

Piglet prices are directly related to farm pig prices, not moo baan.

For big/big farms with 800+ pigs profit margins per pig don't need to be big to be profitable . these recommended prices are all based on big farms and basicly apply to batches of 100+ pigs.

Also big farms or big companies like cp will breed their own piglets. Large high quality piglet breeding farms export piglets. In both cases high piglet prices is to the benefit of these big players

For small farmers a high piglet price is very risky because its very likely that the pig price will drop. It is much wiser to breed your own piglets because costs will be more constant.

But the average village farmer sees the high price for finishing pigs so he starts pigfarming. Buying too expensive piglets and looses instead of making a profit when prices go down. Or buys cheap, sickly piglets which die and still looses.

Then these stop again and prices rise again. The pig price circle in Thailand

The same happens with crop farming by the way.

If he actually makes a nice profit , he is likely to loose in one of the next years

The only way not to get caught in this trap is breeding your own piglets (or by some type of contract farming). You still got to deal with the huge fluctiation in pig price. But at least your piglet costs are controllable and more constant. Not to mention biosecurity.

PS pigs selling at 80 thb/kg here. Unfortunately I got none

Edited May 9, 2016 by revar

[thoongfoned]

talking about the large companies that "control - set" the price. this year alone the company that the wife works for has added - being built 15 new finisher farms (700 head per farm) and

is adding just short of a 1000 head of sows in our village area alone, so you can only imagine the growth over the whole country and connecting countries......... no money in pigs though.......

[Allgeier]

Somebody know where to buy sperm from Pietranpig ?

[revar]

Our 'saragorn' (agricult coop) pig farm got pietrain boars.

[Allgeier]

Our 'saragorn' (agricult coop) pig farm got pietrain boars.

And there sell them? And how there use them in the breeding programm?

When i am searching the web normaly there is not to mutch about pietrain pig. What can be the reason?

Normaly only LR + LW in the Motherline and Duroc after the Fatherline.

Two weeks ago i payed 1100 Bath for 4 Tube of LW Sperm + the driving and spending the time in the car. I am not sure if this have a future. Better to have the own boar. But witch raise?

Duroc sperm is not to expensive and easy the get. For this i think i will not buy a Durocboar. LR + LW is in the Motherline so i not need a Boar fromm the same breed.

What is left? Pietrain

Somebody have some experience with the pietran?

[revar]

They sell the sperm . they got LW, Duroc and pietrain. Thb250 a tube if you do the ai yourself.

[revar]

Duroc is used as a father as an alternative to Duroc. Thais are kinda traditional so most keep to the lw-lr sows.

I crossed a 100% LW with a pietrain and have 3 lw-pietrain sows. These I cross with a Duroc and the resulting pigs are shorter but stocky with lots of red meat. These pigs I sell to the better ( higher prices) buyers who are looking for quality .

Lw-pietrain sows ( like lw-duroc) tend to have smaller litters but are very good mothers.

About the sperm. Sperm need to be kept at very precise temperatures. I collect it and use it within 30 minutes ( transport in empty icebucket). After 2 hours its already a lot less effective.

So of if I have 1 sow in heat I make a tripnin the morning second in the evening.

[Allgeier]

They sell the sperm . they got LW, Duroc and pietrain. Thb250 a tube if you do the ai yourself.

And where is this farm? Or there have a facebook site?

When i see a pig is in heat. I sleep two nights and on the second day i drive to pick up the sperm and i give to the sow on evening and on the next morning.

In the icebucket i put some ice. But also a empty plasticcup and in this cup i put the tube. So the tupe not get direct contact with the ice. Inside the icebucket it should be around 15 Degree.

How long to use a boar? Or how old should be a boar to start to collect the sperm from him?

And one question more: If i have 10 sow, it is profitable or not?

It is not only the cost of sperm, also the driving and the time.

And when the boar is to old for using. What to do with it? People eating the meat or not?

[revar]

Ask around your town about saragorn. Its the ampeuh agricultural office I think. Its where farmers can get cheap loans, get cheap feed or fertilizer, advice on farming etc.

Sometimes they have milk collecting stations for dairy farms or pig farms which sell pigs and sperm.

A pig on heat is only really suspectible for something like 18 hours. You have to read the signs. Just waiting 2 days won't work.

Usual signs are swollen vulva. Very affectionate sow, Sticky fluids, the sow 'standing' for ai ( won't move if you press the back) and presenting herself.

There is lots of info on the net about this which is absolutely essential.

Temperature of sperm need to very precise, there's only a few degrees window. Below 15 celcius or above 20 celcius it dies very fast. I tried the icebucket method but with temperature differences between day and night here the sperm gets bad fast. If you can't get it fresh 2 times its best to put it in a (modified) fridge set to 17celcius.

[revar]

Imo Buying sperm from a good reliable source is more profitible then having your own boar for small farms.

If for instance the ai would cost thb 1000 and you get 10 piglets that's 100 a piglet.

Maintaining boars would also be expensive in terms of buying, food costs etc. You cant use one boar to service 4 sows a day or even use the same 3 times a week.

And extracting sperm from the boar is not a very easy task without the right dummy sow. Even then I found it risky having to lead a 300 kg boar around.

But if I couldn't get good quality , disease checked sperm, I would use my own boar

Luckily I can

Usually you can't sell the meat from the boar, it smells to bad.

Selling any meat of a pig with testicals is almost impossible or onlybyields a tenth of the normal price.

[Allgeier]

Ask around your town about saragorn. Its the ampeuh agricultural office I think. Its where farmers can get cheap loans, get cheap feed or fertilizer, advice on farming etc.

Sometimes they have milk collecting stations for dairy farms or pig farms which sell pigs and sperm.

A cooperative สหกรณ์ have normaly not so mutch to do with the amphere agriculture office. The goverment will the future member of the cooperative advice how to register a cooperative.

A couple of weeks ago i have been on a meeting, because there are some people here there like to register a organic cooperative here.

But it's look like your cooperative have also pigfarmer. And one of this member from the cooperative have pietrain pig. And this was my question where this member with the pietran pig live. So i can ask where the farm is. And maybe i can get some sperm or a somethink else there.

[thoongfoned]

my 2 bahts worth, re sperm: to put an extra thermostat on with display 5 - 6 thousand baht per fridge. worth doing if high useage... buy a microscope, gottta check each and every dose/tube.

if sperm is collected well and stored right the dose WILL last/ be good at least 3 days from collection. have in the last week seen a dose that was good for more than one week. also have seen a dose left out

in the day time temp in the farm (27/28c) that is still good 13 hours later. ie forgot to put back in fridge..... fridge temp 17c. do not expose the dose to sunlight.

i have been collecting data from the wifes farm re sperm quality for the past 5 plus years.ie checking every dose........ the joys of contract farming.............

the boar like the producing sow should eat upto 1000kg per year. do the math if good for you or not. if good get a pit dug and collect the seamen this way, safer/easyer. ie you are under the boar to collect

the "harvest". to my mind 250 baht per dose/tube is expensive, but if all good, gotta do it. look at how many dose you use per sow. ie get the timing right. save cash/ better piglet numbers.

over the years the farm has gotten down to average 2.4 dose per sow/gilt - 44 to 55 AI every month. for the past six or so months the farm has been restricted to just under 2 dose per pig. company trying

to control costs. this also reflects in the monthly paypack the wife recieves.

the farm has a couple of guys/teams that seem to like to buy the surplus boars, so they say there is a way to disguise the "smell" of the male, dont ask me how, my thai dont stretch that far.......... they do

sell the boars a little cheaper then the scrap sows, but the boars are bigger..........

[Allgeier]

if sperm is collected well and stored right the dose WILL last/ be good at least 3 days from collection.

to my mind 250 baht per dose/tube is expensive

This is also what i hear about the 3 days and 250 Bath is the price for one Tube and 2 maybe 450 for the Duroc. Sperm. LW + LR cost maybe around 300 Bath/Tube or 1 Tube 300 Bath and 2 Tube 550.

But i wrote this already. Its also the driving and the time to spend o pick up the sperm.

Snowandpig wrote somethink like 18000 Bath for a Boar. This is also what i hear what a boar cost.

But now is the question how long to use a boar?

[thoongfoned]

re sperm: very large private (independent) farrow to finish set up, up the road from us is selling 1 dose for 150baht. 90ml or there abouts. not sure on the gene of the boars.

[revar]

Got some sellers here at 150 too. But I don't mind paying a bit more for the sperm from boars which are checked/ monitored by vets daily. Especially with all the epidemics around. I also check the sperm on site under the microscope myself to see that theres a lot swimmers allive.

But I am a bit paranoid about getting outside pigs or sperm on the farm

[thoongfoned]

Got some sellers here at 150 too. But I don't mind paying a bit more for the sperm from boars which are checked/ monitored by vets daily. Especially with all the epidemics around. I also check the sperm on site under the microscope myself to see that theres a lot swimmers allive.

But I am a bit paranoid about getting outside pigs or sperm on the farm

agree, gotta check every dose, better to spend 2 minutes checking then 21 days waiting for a return..... yep a good reliable source is the key, better to be over protective ie "alien" things coming into your farm environment, then just crossing your fingers.......bio security all the way or not at all.......

[jompa67]

Can someone help me?

What is a correct price of piglets today. The official price has quickly gone from 1900 up to 2600 bath for a 16 kg piglet. I understand that you can not get that price, but the high price usually indicate that there is a shortage in the market.

Food vendors said they would help us with contacts, but the only thing they nag about is that there are those who sell at 1400 baht. I guess they send us to places where they get a good compensation from the buyer. I guess that's the way it works here in Thailand.

Edited June 2, 2016 by jompa67

[thoongfoned]

have no idea what the going rate for piglets is. if you sell at 16kg that has got to command a higher price then the normal 5 - 8kg piglets that i hear of people selling for 1000 baht plus.

the adult pig buyers that the wife has contact with are always wanting more pigs, but its all about how much you want per kg... same with the piglets??if you have trouble selling your piglets why not finish them yourself? or try and do a deal with one of the feed surpliers, that will take all that you can produce? after all it is all about getting paid (messing about with pigs that is) its is all about contacts, "friends" always want a "drink" to connect people.....

before this year i have never heard my wife speak of so much expansion within the company that she works for, in the last year there has been two significant pay rises for both breeders and finishers, all sounds to me like more product is needed for local and developing markets. also from what i have been told there is a new player on the scene re. breeding and finishing that is moving up and down the country from there base market in and around Bangkok, higher rates are being paid for finishers, not sure about breeding at the mo.

at the mo im trying to talk my wife out of building another farm............

[pigeonjake]

I've been saying it for years on this thread it's all about contacts,

We're to buy good piglets at a good price

We're to buy your feed again at a good price

And we're to sell your FINNISHED pigs, again yes you've got it at a good price

I just wish I had got into haveing them slaughters and sold in our own little butchers shop years ago, it's great,

Not having to wait for a buyer, who most of the time want to rip you off,

Buy them in.

Raise them up and sell in your own shop!

[thoongfoned]

agree with jake. contacts.......

since the wife started in pigs the playing field has changed some what, now there is a lot of choice from say the one man band to the full contract set up. from what rever say and from what other people are talking about the systems that are in place now from the larger feed mill-companies seem very good. re. you buy our food we buy your piglets or finishers, or you sell them yourself. for me the devil is always in the detail..... how much feed cost? how much per pig? the list goes on.... so much choice just gotta do the home work. but for me the breed - finishing - butcher - sell your self has to be the main win for the small ish farmer, of course if you have say 100 sow this could be out of the question, that is why i keep saying about these "contract ish feed buying programs" working for a company takes all the headache out of selling so you can concentrate on the pigs.

look at all the man-woman hours that go into working your family farm. then all the sundries. then look at all the time you spend trying-selling the pigs. i bet it adds up over say one month, then divi up the money. this is the way i looked and still look at the wife pigs business.

all the best.

[Allgeier]

Question:

How to threat a sow, which is gestrate against wurm or parasite?

I used all the time Lemisol, but i think the sow have wurm or parasite. A friend recomended vermax / ivomectin

http://www.maryim.com/index.php?lay=show&ac=cat_show_pro_detail&pid=647028

But i hear only to threat them when there are not gestrate.

There is somethink else?

Or there is some Natureprodukt to feed them against wurm?

Allgeier