Pigs 101 (A Start)

[thoongfoned]

i will tell you how they handle gilts in the wifes farm: gilt comes into the farm between day 200 - 240 old, over the last 2 months nearer the 240 day mark. average 150kg. this would be on  a group of about 20 new gilts per month. no heat history what so ever..... (2 blood line/ can see this was spoken about before) when the gilt is seen to be in standing heat sometimes they will do straight away and other times they will make it wait for 12 hour and then AI it. at present i see that they make about 25 percent of the gilts wait 12 hour while 75 percent of gilts will get breed straight away. they will AI in the early morning then again late at night (12/14 hours apart) the average gilt will be AI 2.6 times, this is an average from this year so far. if the farm was given records of when said gilt had been in heat before and how long she is in standing heat you could tailor the AI better. by the start of the 3rd parity the workers should have the sow "mapped out" ie know how long she will be in heat for. the average born alive for these gilts each month would be a little over 10 vaiable piglets. of couse you get the ones that the farm mis-timed and these will be under the 10 but you also get the ones that were spot on and will produce 13 -15 good piglets. without history of the animal it is hard to everyone good!

if i were running a farm and produced my own gilts i would show them to the boars at 150 day onwards and record standing heat. ie day/morning or evening. and how long she was "straight" for. ie one morning one night = twice.  then keep checking them  every day till you can see 3 standing heats then breed on the 4th. by then you will "know" the pig. example. gilt straight on day 160. then again 181 then again 202. then you know she will come again on day 223. so you have everything in place all ready for she.

hope this could be of some help.........

ps. the way you know how you get the timing right is by the born amounts. high good low bad.

a very small percentage of  sows will only every produce small litters every time, by the third litter you should have found these out

[Allgeier]

Thank you thoongfoned.

Here a next question:

What the members here do to protect small piglet from getting diarrhia? I will say the first 2 month of life.

Yesterday evening there was a meeting organized from Perfect Feed. In my eyes now the best company about customer service. But there not catching the pig. There plan to do this in the close future.

But when i hear what there talk on this meeting yesterday. I am worry about the antibiotika there suggestion to use. So many small thinks to think.

[thoongfoned]

On ‎18‎/‎9‎/‎2559 at 6:44 AM, Allgeier said:

Thank you thoongfoned.

Here a next question:

What the members here do to protect small piglet from getting diarrhia? I will say the first 2 month of life.

Yesterday evening there was a meeting organized from Perfect Feed. In my eyes now the best company about customer service. But there not catching the pig. There plan to do this in the close future.

But when i hear what there talk on this meeting yesterday. I am worry about the antibiotika there suggestion to use. So many small thinks to think.
 

at the moment (last month or so) i have heard of many farms with the problem of diarrha, in  the very worst case i saw photos of them throwing borrow loads of dead piglets out the farm,  i think they lost a full two weeks worth of piglets - maybe more..... this is on a production farm so the piglets would have been in the hundreds. the mums were also having problems to. PED virus i think it is called.

when the weather changes ie hot to cold or loads of rain from dry you tend to see more piglets pooing......

if you keep the piglet floor dry and clean this will help them not start to poo. if you are on a concrete pad i think this will be harder to acheive.  hence the use of new rice straw or saw dust? if you want to spend a few baht "stalosan F" powder is very good, its an import from denmark. piglets under 10 days old you could use "vetcoccis" this is an oral formular, works well. or the ocatcin injectable stuff, this works on full grown pigs to, colivet solution is very good, can do an oral "shot" on young piglets or when they are older put it in the water surply.

im sure rever can chime in with regards to perfect companies advise on the meds...........

[Allgeier]

I found also this:   Porcilis® Coli

 

http://www.msd-animal-health.ph/products/131_118607/productdetails_131_118793.aspx

 

Its a vaccine for the sow to protect the piglet from

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escherichia_coli

 

But my search on the web show me nothing about this vaccine in Thailand. Maybe some member have a idea?

 

The Farmer who vaccine Circo here. After use the bottle and it's not empty, there keep it and use again or there throw  away the bottle? I ask, because a company who sell Circo vaccine told me after use a part from the bottle i can keep it and use again.

 

 

Edited September 27, 2016 by Allgeier

[Allgeier]

On 20.4.2016 at 1:49 PM, revar said:

 Free vet visits and such are also included.

At the moment we need around 40 pigs a day for our local butchers ( and there's a butcher waiting list!) in 3 provinces. In addition we need 100-150 real high quality pigs a month for export.

By having all customers use the same feed and programs we can supply these using small farmers with 10-40 pigs ( and a few bigger farms).

 

A couple of weeks ago i found this Perfect Feed in Roi Et. 2 weeks ago there was this Infoevening with some veterinary from the company.

In my eys and for the moment i can say there care about the customer.  And the guy who selling the feed. He have also some pig. So he know what he is selling.

But there told me the company at this moment is NOT catching pig from the customer. So. my question to revar " who is catching the pig at revar's farm? Perfect or the cooperative?

 

Another question: If we feed here Perfect feed in Roi Et. It's possible to send you some pig in the future? Only thinking to get rid and independence of this local butcher here.

 

Allgeier

 

 

[jompa67]

Hi,

In the end of this year i will setup E-Wap on one of our shed with dimension 15m x 30m. It will be used for farrowing. Do any of you know how to calculate the number of fans i need?

 

One seller told me 3 - 4 another want me to have 8 - 10. One fan will flush out 45.000 cubic meter air per hour. With three fans it will exchange 35 - 40 cubic meter air every seconds. That is equal to around 1 meter air per seconds.

 

I have exactly the same problem with cooling pad, how to calculate?

 

/Jonny

[CLW]

Hi,
In the end of this year i will setup E-Wap on one of our shed with dimension 15m x 30m. It will be used for farrowing. Do any of you know how to calculate the number of fans i need?
 
One seller told me 3 - 4 another want me to have 8 - 10. One fan will flush out 45.000 cubic meter air per hour. With three fans it will exchange 35 - 40 cubic meter air every seconds. That is equal to around 1 meter air per seconds.
 
I have exactly the same problem with cooling pad, how to calculate?
 
/Jonny

Maybe this website can be helpful for you.

https://www.munters.com/en/knowledgebank/

[thoongfoned]

thought that you would have done this by now.....

look at what way the wind blow most of the time, you want the wind to be pushing through the barn. ie hitting evap at the front.

how high will the ceiling be, say 2.2m ? or more? the barn is not a long barn so if the out side set up ie wind coming through is good 3 fan would be ok but 4 fan would be better. (most fan widths are 1.5m ish. say on a longer  barn set up 70 metre ect you would need  eg: wall. 80cm - fan 80cm fan ect......)  also look at how the fans will be driven. the fan size i mention (if driven by electic) will need a 4 pole 1.5hp dynamo. cost per hour just under 4 baht per fan. or you could drive all 3 or 4 fans with one large dynamo. 5 or 6 hp. brand name stuff it you want it to last.

on useage. during the very hot months all fans will be used 24 - 7. its good to have a back up, ie non electrical for 2 reasons. 1 when the power goes off. and 2 for when you wan to rest the dynamo.  once you enclose the barn and the fans are not turning it will get very hot very quick, with in  minutes the temp will be climbing......

the cooling pad should run say 2 metres along the sides both sides and all the way along the front. say you will need 19m lenght. most  pads are 60cm wide. the good one, import sweden will be 900 baht per 60cm  or the chinese stuff that will be 400 ish baht per 60cm they all come in standard hight.  15 x 60 x 180. is what i have seen.  make sure the pad does not sit in water. ie the dranage for the evap. make the pad sit say  7- 8 cm up from the drain/flow area. also make the out  let pipe be of say the standart toilet soil pipe this will help clear the drain of water quickly - hence use less water. again buy a good pump for the water at the evap. 1.5hp would be the best bet on 19m lenght. a pump of this size will be able to suck up water from about 8m metre max and pump alomg for a good 40 plus metres.

hope this helps.

oh yes on the inside ceiling buy the reflective insultated  "stuff" buy the time you have run the guiding ropes/steel it should cost about 15 - 20 thousand to do that size barn.

[thoongfoned]

2 hours ago, jompa67 said:

Thanks for the detailed answer.

 

About the controller. Will i need a need a controller or is it enough to switch the fan manually? 

 

I found this thai company manufacturing controllers. Anyone know this company or have other suggestions?

 

About cooling pads. Will it make much difference if i go with 15 cm instead of 10 cm?

controller, you mean the thermostat? its up to you what you buy, but remmember this will click in out every day say maybe 100 times or more to control to temp in the farm. use a magnetic relay switch to use as a breaker between thermostate and pump/electric surply - helps to protect both water pump and thermostat - both costly.....

thing of the evap pad as a sponge the thicker/better made the more water it will hold. ie spent out first and save as you use.

to be onest im torn between the cheap chinese stuff that will last say 18 momths to the sweden expensive stuff that is for sure better and will last twice as long - but it all about the environment that the paper will be living in. ie does it sit is water - hence buckle and spilt or how many rats will eat away at it over time.

eg. the other year the wife spent 40 plus thousand on some new evap paper and the next day she had a couple of holes through it fom the rats.  i was not happy! rats can and do course all sorts of problems with the evap paper!

[thoongfoned]

well its been quite on here this year............ i will add a bit to what the wife has been upto this year...

some of the children and i have spent a good amount of time back in europe this years due to work/labor issues i have had with my work back home - good excuse for a trip.

wife has been getting good results for the best part of the year (only a couple of dodgie months) and with all being well should end up weaning nearly 6000 piglets this year. have been holding/AI ing afew extra mums this year so this has helped with the weaning numbers.... most months weaning plus 11 per mum (only just over 11.....) which from what i can make out is very good for thailand.

going to expand the farm come the cold weather and add between 50 - 75 sows to the farm, should keep the bank manager happy............

on our return the other month i was told by the wife that she is going into the contact fish business also - company is expanding in our area from what i can make out. i have managed to put the breaks on this one for the time being saying that she really does not have the time........ this seems to be the latest must have project around us, i think for the most part because the local government and villagers do not want any more pig farms to be built, over the past 5 -7 there has been a lot of new barns built................ some to close to village homes ect........

 

[Robert24]

well its been quite on here this year............ i will add a bit to what the wife has been upto this year...
some of the children and i have spent a good amount of time back in europe this years due to work/labor issues i have had with my work back home - good excuse for a trip.
wife has been getting good results for the best part of the year (only a couple of dodgie months) and with all being well should end up weaning nearly 6000 piglets this year. have been holding/AI ing afew extra mums this year so this has helped with the weaning numbers.... most months weaning plus 11 per mum (only just over 11.....) which from what i can make out is very good for thailand.
going to expand the farm come the cold weather and add between 50 - 75 sows to the farm, should keep the bank manager happy............
on our return the other month i was told by the wife that she is going into the contact fish business also - company is expanding in our area from what i can make out. i have managed to put the breaks on this one for the time being saying that she really does not have the time........ this seems to be the latest must have project around us, i think for the most part because the local government and villagers do not want any more pig farms to be built, over the past 5 -7 there has been a lot of new barns built................ some to close to village homes ect........

That's a big farm your wife has. Does your wife do contract farming for baby pigs? 11 babies is a very good average.
 

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[thoongfoned]

not that big a farm for a contract farm, know of afew around us that hold 400 plus sows........ some have 2 300 sows units on one site. when we built this farm we planned to hold 300 sow put did not have funds available at the time. a 200 sow farm cost approx 4m baht at the time,6 plus years ago - the build  was done to a high standard... build costs alot higher now.

yes the "boss" runs a "contract farrowing unit" the average sow/gilts numbers thus far this year in the farm has been 220. average 46 births per month. yes we are happy with the average wean numbers and so is the company - the farm sits at the top end of the scale production/standard wise.

the wife has been focused on getting over 11 per mum every month for few years now, past 3 ish years the farm has finished in the 10.8 - 10.9 range, but with a little lower births per month, say between 43 - 45 per month.

over the last year the company has request all bio security and hygene standards to be raised, i liken the cleaning in the farm now to "hospital sort of standards".  while we were away this year the wife has employed 2 extra people to work every day just cleaning this and that, thats on top of 2 full time people that alraedy "handled all the cleaning"........... i could almost move in now......

[Robert24]

Thanks for those details. Yes there are some gigantic contract farms. Just heard of one getting built now in Kalasin for 3000 mom pigs.
Our farm is quite a bit smaller. By early next year we will have 40 mom pigs, 2 male pigs and making batches of 100++ baby pigs that we grow to 100 kg and sell back to CP.


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[thoongfoned]

the difference with your set up is you have money in every stage of production where "we" on have money invested in the barn. i bet your running/ set up costs have been high to get to 40 breeding sows......

 

3000 sow = 250 bags of feed a day plus creep feed..... one lorry and drag unit will only deliver 1100 ish bags at a time,  625 ish births a month if running at 90% ish AI. thats a lot of work.

[Robert24]

You are right, contract farming has it's advantages in many ways. It's certainly less risky if you have a good partnership with the company you work with and returns are more stable. But it's not without risks especially if you get into trouble with your company. And that is usually dependent on 1/2 individuals from that company.

As for me, returns are great if you have pig prices above 70 baht, current level @ 62 baht is still ok but certainly lower than what you get from contract farming.


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[thoongfoned]

full contract farming has it ups and downs like most things, other than the money side of things i like it because its good to have people making independant inspections every month of farm and animals because it keeps things running at the top end of standards so to speak. if you tow the line and do as the company wants/can do the work, it is a good option.

example of finishing pay: starting 6 baht per kg gained on piglets. most farm size 700 piglets per batch. 100 - 120 days to finishing,empty farm, 45 ish days cleaning then next batch. from what i understand a good/top end farm will finish 97% of piglets to a good weight/standard. target weight 100 plus kg. ( i know this because the wife has been looking at doing a finishing farm for some time)

question; have you seen the price above 70 baht before/or for any lenght of time, over the past few years?

 

[Robert24]

You are right about the commercials of contract farming as I said if you can continue to work with the company longer term and you don't run into troubles it pays out well.

As for pig prices, I haven't been long in this business, so can't really tell you. For the short period we have been doing this, pig prices were well above 70 for most of the 1st half of this year. Now for my last batch I got 62 baht.


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[Falang Nang Fa]

FOR SALE 6 pens for pigs, 1 year old, more info PM me or call 081-584-9965

[IsaanAussie]

Just watched a Netflixs movie called "Mr Pig" starring Danny Glover. Worth a watch if you have a soft spot for Duroc boars. 

[Allgeier]

I would like to buy a microscope for the boarsperm but i have no idee what kind of it  will make the work.  Or maybe somebody have a used one for sell?

 

Here on lazada there selling many. But witch one is enough?

 

http://www.lazada.co.th/shop-toy-microscopes/

 

Thank you

 

 

[Allgeier]

Thank you jompa67.

 

I know pornchaiitner and its not easy to get answer from them on Facebook but there have everythink what is necessary. But what is necessary?  

 

What i need to collect sperm from the boar to the tube? And i know i little bit what will this cost me.

 

 

[thoongfoned]

On ‎10‎/‎2‎/‎2560 at 1:00 PM, Allgeier said:

I would like to buy a microscope for the boarsperm but i have no idee what kind of it  will make the work.  Or maybe somebody have a used one for sell?

 

Here on lazada there selling many. But witch one is enough?

 

http://www.lazada.co.th/shop-toy-microscopes/

 

Thank you

 

 

download an app for your phone. maybe the cheapest option?

7 odd years ago we bought a microscope for the farm, 7000 ish baht with wooden case and glass slides. the sort of thing you see in most schools.. one eye socket, four/five different lenses. only problem we have had was changing the bulb afew years ago. this gets used 2 or 3 times aday. like with most things you tend to get what you pay for...

the childeren seem to like lazada, have parcles come most weeks, the best bit is the paying on delivery, ie children at school mum and dad have to pay....555

[thoongfoned]

everyone given up on the pigs now..........

the wifes farm is still plodding along, last 3 months have been the worst weaned per sow that the farm has ever seen (think i better go off back to europe/farm  was working well when i was last away.5555) because of this "we" have decided to wait until next cold season to increase the sow numbers in the farm (extention is almost complete) but because of poor work/gilts we will hold to see what the next few months bring.

cold season was not that cold so did not see a spike in weak born piglet that were birthed unsupervised during the night, electric bill has also stayed low due not not needing extra heat lamps ect..

the farm is running almost medication/antibiotica free now, only use meds  on piglets with bad feet/ legs (this is under 10/15% per month) this is mainly due to mums standing on piglets, some mums are very good at this........mostly these select mums always act in this way. because of the the farm using less medication we have also been given another pay rise, also the piglets that are med free also get paid more per piglet, all good news.... over the past few year the farm has seen "a nice" increase in pay per piglet......

the farm now has some sows that are upto parity 14, these have been in the farm since almost day one. parity wise the farm holds about 20% sows that are parity 10 and above. the farm tends to average 3/5% percent culling and new gilts every month. could do with more gilts coming into the farm but the standard and availiblity are always an issue........

on a side note around the village the contract fish farming has really taken off now, a good few families have invested and are up and running already. the largest area that i have seen or heard of is running just over 20 rai of lakes/ponds with god only knows how many fish........

[Robert24]

everyone given up on the pigs now..........
the wifes farm is still plodding along, last 3 months have been the worst weaned per sow that the farm has ever seen (think i better go off back to europe/farm  was working well when i was last away.5555) because of this "we" have decided to wait until next cold season to increase the sow numbers in the farm (extention is almost complete) but because of poor work/gilts we will hold to see what the next few months bring.
cold season was not that cold so did not see a spike in weak born piglet that were birthed unsupervised during the night, electric bill has also stayed low due not not needing extra heat lamps ect..
the farm is running almost medication/antibiotica free now, only use meds  on piglets with bad feet/ legs (this is under 10/15% per month) this is mainly due to mums standing on piglets, some mums are very good at this........mostly these select mums always act in this way. because of the the farm using less medication we have also been given another pay rise, also the piglets that are med free also get paid more per piglet, all good news.... over the past few year the farm has seen "a nice" increase in pay per piglet......
the farm now has some sows that are upto parity 14, these have been in the farm since almost day one. parity wise the farm holds about 20% sows that are parity 10 and above. the farm tends to average 3/5% percent culling and new gilts every month. could do with more gilts coming into the farm but the standard and availiblity are always an issue........
on a side note around the village the contract fish farming has really taken off now, a good few families have invested and are up and running already. the largest area that i have seen or heard of is running just over 20 rai of lakes/ponds with god only knows how many fish........

Yes Pig prices are quite low, getting around 58 baht from CP and I see local prices from pig buyers as low as 54/55 baht. Interesting is though that meat prices in markets have not fallen much. So I'm glad we are selling meat as well which gives me better profits. But given that many give up on Pig farming, one would hope that prices will go up.again..

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[thoongfoned]

example of prices from the sister inlaw over the past two weeks. Sell growers for 48 baht kg. (all around 75kg each) buy piglet 4-5kg 1500baht each. buy sows in pig 12000baht each, look young P1 orP2 on the thin side, no history....

Sister in law would normally sell her growers to the wedding-death party  ect and get better money but she had a glut of pigs so sold in bulk to a dealer.

[Robert24]

example of prices from the sister inlaw over the past two weeks. Sell growers for 48 baht kg. (all around 75kg each) buy piglet 4-5kg 1500baht each. buy sows in pig 12000baht each, look young P1 orP2 on the thin side, no history....
Sister in law would normally sell her growers to the wedding-death party  ect and get better money but she had a glut of pigs so sold in bulk to a dealer.

48 baht/kg? That's very low. The lowest I have heard is 53/54 baht and that's usually small lots to local buyers. My break even is 52 baht and I'm quite sure that most farmers loose money at 48 baht.

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[IsaanAussie]

As always the wheel turns guys. Sorry to see the prices go down but it seems that the run of good times has been longer than usual. Now is the time to hold on tight and try to limit expenditure on the feed bills. Good luck.

[thoongfoned]

On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2017 at 11:37 AM, Robert24 said:

48 baht/kg? That's very low. The lowest I have heard is 53/54 baht and that's usually small lots to local buyers. My break even is 52 baht and I'm quite sure that most farmers loose money at 48 baht.

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i asked her if she made any money at  48 baht kg? around 500 baht per pig was the answer, on 23 of them...... these ones they bred themselves, they get a mixed diet of shop bough feed and stuff they grow or mix themselves. labor cost they do not think of and they run the "farm" with no electric. the piglets/pig tend to grow out slow because of the environment and care they receive. ie piglet under 5kg at 35 day. which then I would think affect the later growth stages too. they do ok because they grow/have different animal/produce come on line most of the time.

diversity is the key for them.....

 

 

[Robert24]

5 hours ago, thoongfoned said:

i asked her if she made any money at  48 baht kg? around 500 baht per pig was the answer, on 23 of them...... these ones they bred themselves, they get a mixed diet of shop bough feed and stuff they grow or mix themselves. labor cost they do not think of and they run the "farm" with no electric. the piglets/pig tend to grow out slow because of the environment and care they receive. ie piglet under 5kg at 35 day. which then I would think affect the later growth stages too. they do ok because they grow/have different animal/produce come on line most of the time.

diversity is the key for them.....

 

 

that makes a break even around 41 baht. That's great if you can produce at such a low level of cost. I looked into many times, and fully costing for me is around 52 baht which includes food cost, vaccine, cost for baby pig, electricity, labour, maintenance, depreciation of your farm etc.

[thoongfoned]

Sister in law keeps the costs very low but I think it impacts on the growth of pigs.she does get good born alive numbers from  her natural breeding but tend to loose many due to the environment and the fact that they do not use  medication. the grow out farm always have a lot of flies about too....

the wifes farm Is coming  up to its 7th year later this year and now the maintenance cost are going up, this year already we have spent over 200,000baht with plenty more to come in the next 2 months, doing as she earns. with the extension and all the new bits this year I can see a million baht Is going to be  spent. extension  does include housing for an extra 100 sows though.....

in the past we have put back between 3 and 5% per year back in from what it makes but it is all getting old now. there Is talk within the company about getting rid of the cages in the coming years, this is one of the main expenses in building one of these farms.

all good fun though....