Man Shot At Stockwell Tube Station

[Boatabike]

There may be several reasons why they would choose to follow a suspect and not detain him. Firstly they may have believed he would lead them to other people conected to the bombings. Maybe they felt that leaving him walking around was likely to supply them with greater info. Once he entered the tube station his risk factor was raised to the point where it was decided he needed to be detained. Then it went wrong. I really don't know as nobody else here does either, but there would be many reasons to let a suspect walk without stopping him at the first sighting. IMHO

[Kringle]

I would think the reason he was not shot while running away was because there were probably a lot of other people around at that time. Someone else might have been shot. Hard times, hard choices and I think all people in ANY kind of position to be at least trying to protect the public are going to make some bad decisions. It can't always be a simple process. I think maybe this is what Udon is talking about. I still don't think the muslims themselves are doing enough to clean up their own sh1t and just push out statements say "it's bad and it's not all of us" crapp.

[Thomas_Merton]

Thank you Thomas.  A couple of things I want to question though.

Plus tackling a potential bomber at anytime, unexpectedly, could have disastrous consequences.

I think given they thought he was a potential bomber they could have stopped him any place other than a busy train station. There must've been ample time in his commuting whilst he was under observation to have chosen a better spot?

We don't know the level of their suspicions or what potential opportunities there could have been - these are all ongoing split second decisions perhaps coordinated through senior officers not present at the locations - these points will always be speculation as I doubt these details will ever be made public.

An opportunity arose for the suspect to be stopped at a security check at the station, which he ran from.

Do you think gievn the potential threat of this man, there should have been more manpower at the station to have tackled him. He shouldn't have been able to get as far as he did surely? They would have had time to get the manpower in place from just knowing that the bus he got on was leading to the train station which is the most obvious target.

Again, we have no way of knowing the level of the officers' suspicions - they could have begun with "mildly curious" gradually increasing from there.

The choices for the officers were reduced to allowing the attack or eliminating the threat.

Again, just to clarify I am not talking about the decisions made once the attacker was on the floor up to the shooting, but the decsions made up to that point.

Also Thomas, just another thing if you don't mind. There has been some reports of SAS involvement I believe and it would seem correct that potential terrorism activity would be under surveillance from not just the police but other security forces as well. Is there any confirmation apart from Scotland Yard that the shooting was done by police? I'm sure the first reports I read were about plain clothes men chasing him and shooting him?

This leads me to believe that more elite terrorist prevention forces were in play here. If other security forces were involved especially some organisations like the secretive SAS would you agree that their involvement would not be made publicly known to anyone via the media as a matter of national security, ie. not giving the terrorists information on our operations?

It seems obvious if this was the case that the Met would issue some responsibilty here, blaming the police to not blow the cover of the secret services. Have the policemeans names or pictures been released over in the UK yet? Is there any witness who says that uniformed police killed the man, or is it all references to plain clothes 'police' men?

Just trying to establish here the level of training by the men giving chase and also wondering if it was a 'special forces' operation would that be why there seemed to be a lack of manpower at the station?

Maybe the police were asked to step back to a certain degree whilst more elite forces dealt with the threat and this led to the man being able to run away and get as far as he did. Of course he could have set off a bomb anytime during this so a bungled operation?

Whats your thoughts please.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is no guarantee of anything: from the nature of the forces involved in all of the operations right through to their nationality.

Edited July 24, 2005 by Thomas_Merton

[Boo]

I take the tube everyday, was on the tube line that got bombed 2 weeks ago, an hour before the bombs went off, I see the flowere laid at the (still closed) Liverpool Street tube station every day on my way to work & if someone was told by police to stop, then vaulted over the ticket barrier & ran down the platform then I would expect the visably armed police to shoot him. End of story.

I don't care if it was one bullet of 20, the guy was stupid & he paid the price & if he is innocent of being a terrorist then you have to ask what he WAS guilty of to make him run, as no-one I know would be that stupid, but the potential of him carrying a bomb onto tube was there & he (the guy shot) chose, in this current situation, to run. Making a potential threat to innocent passangers on the train. Good job old bill.

[Heng]

I don't care if it was one bullet of 20, the guy was stupid & he paid the price & if he is innocent of being a terrorist then you have to ask what he WAS guilty of to make him run, as no-one I know would be that stupid

Exactly. He may have even been one of those visa runner type characters.

[chuchok]

I don't care if it was one bullet of 20, the guy was stupid & he paid the price & if he is innocent of being a terrorist then you have to ask what he WAS guilty of to make him run, as no-one I know would be that stupid

Exactly. He may have even been one of those visa runner type characters.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree with Boo.Heng, you are just taking the piss.

Edited July 24, 2005 by chuchok

[Boo]

ahh yes, the infamous visa runners, a dodgy butch for sure

[Heng]

I don't care if it was one bullet of 20, the guy was stupid & he paid the price & if he is innocent of being a terrorist then you have to ask what he WAS guilty of to make him run, as no-one I know would be that stupid

Exactly. He may have even been one of those visa runner type characters.

I agree with Boo.Heng, you are just taking the piss.

I agree with you, Chuchok.

[Pattaya_Fox]

From what news has been made available so far and taking the initial emotion out of the situation which any death produces the facts that seem available are :-

The house that the shot man emerged from was under observation by security officersl because in some way they had information that it was linked to the recent suicide and attempted suicide bombings and therefore was connected to terrorism.

A man of swarthy appearance wearing unusual clothing for the time of year left the house.

This man`s identity seems not to have been known to the security officers who followed him.

The fact that this man left a house which had a possible link with a terrorist situation was enough to put the security forces following him on a high state of alert.

The man alighted a bus and then disembarked from the bus and ran into the tube station.

He was apparently warned to stop, but continued to run, jumped over a barrier and boarded a train where he half stumbled and fell to the ground with three security officers pouncing on him. He was then shot 5 times in the head with obviously low velocity bullets and was killed

In my opinion when he left the house the officers were unaware who he was and were keeping him under observation.

I do not think that they had any intention of killing this man or stopping him before he had either indicated to the officers that he was going to provide a reasonable threat to the lives of innocent people, or he was going to lead them to other suspects.

This is why he was not stopped or shot before he started to run simply because he had at that time not posed sufficient threat to the public.

Once he began to run and not adhere to warning(s) to stop then the security personnel had no option but to regard his actions as a security threat and to take the necessary action to stop him from possibly detonating a bomb which could have killed many innocent people.

Under the circumstances where suiside bombers are being pursued if an officer shoots for the chest or lower part of the body and only wounds that person then the bomber can still detonate his bomb in a matter of a second.

The only way to ensure that this man who because of his actions caused grave suspicion could not detonate a possible bomb and thereby cause carnage was to shoot him in the head and kill him.

Even though 3 officers were on top of him it would still have been possible for a real bomber to detonate his bomb.

Because of the manner in which cowardly terrorists go about their business and under the circumstances we now find that society has had thrust upon them by assassins and would be assassins then the security forces can only act in accordance with the circumstances in which they find themselves in..... In this case a man was killed who was not linked to the bombings of the 7th July and the later attempted bombings, and this is regrettable

The questions begging for answers though are:-

Why was this man in a house which was thought to have links to terrorists?

Why for someone who spoke good English(according to his cousin) did he not stop?

[chuchok]

From what news has been made available so far and taking the initial emotion out of the situation which any death produces the facts that seem available are :-

The house that the shot man emerged from was under observation by security officersl because in some way they had information that it was linked to the recent suicide and attempted suicide bombings and therefore was connected to terrorism.

A man of swarthy appearance wearing unusual clothing for the time of year left the house.

This man`s identity seems not to have been known to the security officers who followed him.

The fact that this man left a house which had a possible link with a terrorist situation was enough to put the security forces following him on a high state of alert.

The man alighted a bus and then disembarked from the bus and ran into the tube station.

He was apparently warned to stop, but continued to run, jumped over a barrier and boarded a train where he half stumbled and fell to the ground with three security officers pouncing on him.  He was then shot 5 times in the head with obviously low velocity bullets and was killed

In my opinion when he left the house the officers were unaware who he was and were keeping him under observation.

I do not think that they had any intention of killing this man or stopping him before he had either indicated to the officers that he was going to provide a reasonable threat to the lives of innocent people, or he was going to lead them to other suspects.

This is why  he was not stopped or shot before he started to run simply because he had at that time not posed sufficient threat to the public.

Once he began to run and not adhere to warning(s) to stop then the security personnel had no option but to regard his actions as a security threat and to take the necessary action to stop him from possibly detonating a bomb which could have killed many innocent people.

Under the circumstances where suiside bombers are being pursued if an officer shoots for the chest or lower part of the body and only wounds that person then the bomber can still detonate his bomb in a matter of a second.

The only way to ensure that this man who because of his actions caused grave suspicion could not detonate a possible bomb and thereby cause carnage was to shoot him in the head and kill him.

Even though 3 officers were on top of him it would still have been possible for a real bomber to detonate his bomb.

Because of the manner in which cowardly terrorists go about their business and under the circumstances we now find that society has had thrust upon them by assassins and would be assassins then the security forces can only act in accordance with the circumstances in which they find themselves in.....  In this case a man was killed who was not linked to the bombings of the 7th July and the later attempted bombings, and this is regrettable

The questions begging for answers though are:-

Why was this man in a house which was thought to have links to terrorists?

Why for someone who spoke good English(according to his cousin) did he not stop?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

great post!

[JemJem]

It seems like the pathetic racist/pro-Bush/right-wing camp are now trying to justify this execution.

I am surprised that no one has mentioned this....so I will. Hasn't it occurred to anyone that this execution is due to the inhumane thing called 'racial profiling'. The guy executed was not a 'white' person. Do you think a 'white Brazilian' (or any 'white guy') would have been executed this way ?!

Think !

Racist cops !

Jem

[Thomas_Merton]

It seems like the pathetic racist/pro-Bush/right-wing camp are now trying to justify this execution.

I am surprised that no one has mentioned this....so I will. Hasn't it occurred to anyone that this execution is due to the inhumane thing called 'racial profiling'. The guy executed was not a 'white' person. Do you think a 'white Brazilian' (or any 'white guy') would have been executed this way ?!

Think !

Racist cops !

Jem

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Looks very no-white to me - what about you, Jem?

[Boo]

jem jem, the fact is the guy ran, what is rascist about him acting in a suspiciion manner at a tube station the day after an attempted bomb plot & 2 weeks to the day after a succesful terrorist attack on the tubes. Anyone of any nationality in the UK let alone London would have been aware of the current situation & wouldn't have ran. Simple as that.

[chuchok]

It seems like the pathetic racist/pro-Bush/right-wing camp are now trying to justify this execution.

I am surprised that no one has mentioned this....so I will. Hasn't it occurred to anyone that this execution is due to the inhumane thing called 'racial profiling'. The guy executed was not a 'white' person. Do you think a 'white Brazilian' (or any 'white guy') would have been executed this way ?!

Think !

Racist cops !

Jem

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep and you were there and know everything.I imagine it would be very hard not to racially profile people, when 99% of the terrorists come from certain backgrounds. I'm not being racial, but have a look at the pictures of the bombers....

[chuchok]

It seems like the pathetic racist/pro-Bush/right-wing camp are now trying to justify this execution.

I am surprised that no one has mentioned this....so I will. Hasn't it occurred to anyone that this execution is due to the inhumane thing called 'racial profiling'. The guy executed was not a 'white' person. Do you think a 'white Brazilian' (or any 'white guy') would have been executed this way ?!

Think !

Racist cops !

Jem

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Looks very no-white to me - what about you, Jem?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

he looks whiter than me....but I would have stopped if somebody in a flak jacket and a pistol asked me.

[ronz28]

I heard it was British cops that shot the guy.

Now they are saying the poor guy was an electrician probably running to get to his next job on time. Of course this all must be Bush's fault for attacking the terrorists that killed and wounded thousands of people in New Your City not to mention the Billions of dollars of actual and consequential damages to the world economy.

[Boo]

my mum is darker skinned than him.

[The_Eye_Of_Sauron]

It could have been worse. He could have been a plumber.

Do you know how hard it is to find a plumber in London nowadays?

[chuchok]

It could have been worse. He could have been a plumber.

Do you know how hard it is to find a plumber in London nowadays?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

shouldn't laugh...but....

[dereklev]

It could have been worse. He could have been a plumber.

Do you know how hard it is to find a plumber in London nowadays?

shouldn't laugh...but....

Agreed, shouldn't laugh...but....

[bkkmadness]

From what news has been made available so far and taking the initial emotion out of the situation which any death produces the facts that seem available are :-

The house that the shot man emerged from was under observation by security officersl because in some way they had information that it was linked to the recent suicide and attempted suicide bombings and therefore was connected to terrorism.

A man of swarthy appearance wearing unusual clothing for the time of year left the house.

This man`s identity seems not to have been known to the security officers who followed him.

The fact that this man left a house which had a possible link with a terrorist situation was enough to put the security forces following him on a high state of alert.

The man alighted a bus and then disembarked from the bus and ran into the tube station.

He was apparently warned to stop, but continued to run, jumped over a barrier and boarded a train where he half stumbled and fell to the ground with three security officers pouncing on him.  He was then shot 5 times in the head with obviously low velocity bullets and was killed

In my opinion when he left the house the officers were unaware who he was and were keeping him under observation.

I do not think that they had any intention of killing this man or stopping him before he had either indicated to the officers that he was going to provide a reasonable threat to the lives of innocent people, or he was going to lead them to other suspects.

This is why  he was not stopped or shot before he started to run simply because he had at that time not posed sufficient threat to the public.

Once he began to run and not adhere to warning(s) to stop then the security personnel had no option but to regard his actions as a security threat and to take the necessary action to stop him from possibly detonating a bomb which could have killed many innocent people.

Under the circumstances where suiside bombers are being pursued if an officer shoots for the chest or lower part of the body and only wounds that person then the bomber can still detonate his bomb in a matter of a second.

The only way to ensure that this man who because of his actions caused grave suspicion could not detonate a possible bomb and thereby cause carnage was to shoot him in the head and kill him.

Even though 3 officers were on top of him it would still have been possible for a real bomber to detonate his bomb.

Because of the manner in which cowardly terrorists go about their business and under the circumstances we now find that society has had thrust upon them by assassins and would be assassins then the security forces can only act in accordance with the circumstances in which they find themselves in.....  In this case a man was killed who was not linked to the bombings of the 7th July and the later attempted bombings, and this is regrettable

The questions begging for answers though are:-

Why was this man in a house which was thought to have links to terrorists?

Why for someone who spoke good English(according to his cousin) did he not stop?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks TM for your views and good post Pattaya Fox.

Couple more questions I want to add myself to Pattaya Fox's.

Was we not informed when the man was first shot that he was linked to anti terror organisations?

If the authorities announced this, they must've had evidence about it, so why is he suddenly an innocent electrician now?

I read some reports saying he come out of a house that was being watched, and now it seems that he came out of a block of flats, whats the real story here?

Of course if he came out of the actual house it shows a closer link to terrorism whereas if he came out of a block of flats is distances him from the potential terrorist link.

Are the reports from yesterday different from what is reported today and perhaps tomorrow?

The thing is, why would the guy run? It seems he must've been guilty of something and is that being covered up from the public because of national security reasons.

For sure what our govt know and what the press is allowed to report are two different things and of course we only get information from the press. Are we being misleaded?

On the other hand he ran straight into the train station, he came from a relatively poor part of London and maybe he just wanted to dodge the train fare, I know plenty of people that do it this way. Just run in, jump the gates and hope theres a train ready to get on before anyone catches you. Maybe just unfortunate that he attempted this at this time.

Really curious about these two so anyone please answer from what news you have in the papers or tv.

Was we not informed when the man was first shot that he was linked to anti terror organisations?

If the authorities announced this, they must've had evidence about it, so why is he suddenly an innocent electrician now?

[Sir Burr]

Some comments from the general public taken from the BBC's web-site:-

I back the police action 100% in this case. As sad as it is, if the chap was innocent the fact remains that the day after four terrorists tried to massacre another group of innocent people, he ignored the challenges of three armed officers and ran straight down into the Tube and onto a train. What were they to think he was up to and what would people say if he had detonated a device and killed people? Hindsight is wonderful; it's just a pity that we don't have it at the crucial moment.

Mark Garth, London

This morning in Wandsworth I saw my first "DON'T SHOOT - I'm not Brazilian" t-shirt. A bit OTT, but perhaps Londoners should consider buying, and wearing Brazilian t-shirts as a sign of solidarity with the murdered young man.

Mike, London

At and around Gleneagles the police were more than happy to use Section 65 to stop and search all and sundry. If they thought the guy was a threat then they could have stopped him at any point. Or were they waiting for him to commit an act of terrorism, so as to more easily obtain a conviction? You gotta, gotta, gotta, try a little tenderness.

Alan Govan, Glasgow, Scotland

As an expat Brit, born in South London, I am greatly saddened by recent events. I can only imagine how that policeman feels today. He should not be blamed; he was only trying to do a difficult job in extreme circumstances. I can only pray that this madness ceases soon.

Richard Clark, Edmonton, Canada

Could Britain accept it if an innocent British man was shot by three Brazilian plain-clothed policemen in the name of terror in Rio de Janeiro?

Yusof Yahya, Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia

Has anyone stopped to spare a thought for the officer concerned? No officer gets up in the morning with a yearning to shoot someone. The bottom line is that it is an absolute tragedy but so was last week? The last thing we need to do is resort to our usual blame culture. It's a fine line we are treading, and those that stand in judgment of others may do well to consider how they would have acted or indeed if they would have been prepared to act in order to protect the lives of others.

Neil, Nottingham

The problem with the shooting is that the police were plain-clothed. If a man flees uniformed police and jumps onto a train in the current climate, the police have little choice. But the police were not uniformed. All Mr Menezes saw was a group of men pulling guns and screaming in a Tube station. Given the events of the last few weeks, no wonder he fled.

Greg, London, England

It seems that there is no question that this man did not understand the command to stop when challenged; as his cousin confirms that he spoke English. In today's climate in London, if you act in such a manner and resist any attempts to be stopped by the police, then I am afraid that you have to face the consequences. Whilst deploring any loss of innocent life, this incident highlights the pressures the police are under and the instant decisions they have to make to defend the public.

Stuart, Amsterdam, Netherlands

If these guys are prosecuted because of their actions, I hope all armed policemen hand in their licenses. Their job will have gone from being phenomenally difficult to being impossible. As unfortunate as this man's death has been, I fully believe the police were only acting in the best interests of the public.

Gareth, Wrexham, North Wales

It is astonishing how many people here seem to be justifying shooting people just because they are running away. Since when was jumping a barrier a capital offence? Of course the police have a very difficult job but it is possible that they got this wrong and as a result a man died. We cannot excuse everything the police do just because of the present situation. Otherwise we may as well live in a police state.

Robert Pugsley, Birstall, UK

It is so easy for armchair critics to offer wise advice after the event. There should be no witch hunt or scapegoating of the police. I hope they will robustly defend their actions and not be demoralised to the point of inefficiency as is happening to the army as a result of prosecutions for live/death decisions taken in stressed conditions.

David, Bristol

This death is sad and we feel for his family, however, anybody who runs from the police into a Tube station in the current environment should expect a deadly response. The police responded appropriately in difficult circumstances to protect the public.

Andrew, Chiswick, London

I don't see why the police were so perfectly content to let the man enter and ride a bus! And then got so very excited when he went towards a Tube station? And why start challenging him from a distance? Why not slowly surround and pounce? It's not as if they only just saw him! They'd been following him since the house.

Paul Kopal, Colchester, England

It is a disgrace that people are criticising the police. They are dealing with a national emergency and preventing the loss of further lives. If anyone carrying a bag on the Tube is running from the police and ignores their orders to stop then they ought to be shot. The lives of hundreds of innocent civilians must be paramount.

Simon, Cardiff, Wales

Every incident on and after 7/7 has been accompanied by descriptions of panic and people running away from what they thought might be bombs, bombers or armed terrorists. If the police officers had been uniformed it would be a different matter, but how can anyone say it is not an instinctive reaction to run from several men brandishing guns and shouting, especially in the current climate? How can the police themselves fail to understand this? Or do they just see it as 'collateral damage'?

Martin Barlow, St Asaph, UK

After reading the comments about the Stockwell Tube shooting, I completely agree with the actions taken by the British police and would support the same action if it were taken in Australia. The suggested use of an electrical stun gun may have triggered any explosive and the handcuffing of a fanatic, possibly carrying a bomb, would be fraught with danger. It is a war we're fighting and the enemy is not playing by any rules of engagement. Support your police, they are doing it for you.

Lindsay Bennett, Robina, Australia

Would it not be better if officers were armed with something less deadly, perhaps some kind of tranquiliser gun? Surely modern technology can come up with something. I fully understand the threat we are facing, and the decision to shoot was made without much time or evidence, because the risk to the public was so great. However, another innocent person has died.

Sam, Manchester, England

The police had no option, the man could have been a suicide bomber. They could not afford to take chances with the lives of innocent people at stake. He should have obeyed the police when challenged.

Mrs I.E. Brown

What if this man did not understand English, and all he saw was 3 normally dressed large built men screaming, looking aggressive and running after him in a tube station? Put yourself in his position.

Hiroki, UK

While thoughts must be with the family of the man who was shot, I also feel for the policeman who had to make the decision to shoot, and pray that he will not be made a scapegoat. He did what he felt was right at the time given the information available to him and only seconds to weigh up the risks and to react accordingly.

Pat Hughes, Felixstowe, UK

It is important to wait for the full facts to emerge. However so far it seems very likely that in these particular circumstances and because of the man's behaviour the police genuinely believed he posed a potential threat to themselves and other members of the public.

Roger Taylor, Harrogate, UK

With innocent lives at risk, the police cannot afford to take chances with suspicious people who run away when challenged. It's easy with hindsight to accuse them of being too hasty, but haste is unavoidable when you might have a suicide bomber among dozens of people on a tube train. There's no time to interview the suspect - there's just action. If people want someone to blame for this, blame the terrorists who have made such actions necessary.

Jennifer Harvey, UK

Unfortunately, this will prove to be an 'own goal', because it will alienate the Muslim communities whose co-operation is vital in tracking down the real bombers.

Trevor, Worthing, UK

It's shocking to hear about something like this happening in London. I'm not sure it would even happen where I come from (the United States) The logical thing to do once they had him pinned down would to have handcuffed him, not shoot him five times.

Kate, Berkeley, USA

A situation like this demands firm and decisive action. It sends a message to all who are on the fringe to keep clear and for those real terrorists that there is no mercy. Inevitably, there will be mistakes but in a war this is the result of a fanatic minority trying to impose their will on all others.

Peter Nurse, (English), France

Unfortunate but understandable response of the police given the circumstances.

Professor Arun Khanna, Indianapolis, USA

If the man was fleeing, ignoring warnings and was wearing a bulky garment that could have contained explosives then I am not surprised police opened fire and support them fully in this decision. The fact that it does not seem that the person was involved in terrorism should not in any way deter the police from making such a decision quickly and logically when it is necessary. This will become even more complex when the winter comes and we all wear baggy coats.

Christopher Thomas, Weston super Mare, UK

It is very sad that an innocent man was shot in the head. Though, I do wonder why he ran from the police and why he was dressed the way he was. The police acted in the public's interest.

Margaret Nash, Marlow, Bucks

He had a choice - he could have stopped. Jumping over barriers to get away is not normal behaviour - sorry. I thank the police for protecting the general public from what could have been a very serious incident. If we don't let the police do their job we may all live to regret it.

Jacqueline, Surrey, UK

There are a million and one reasons why the man may have run away. He may not have heard the police call, he may not have understood it, he may have heard the call and assumed it was directed at someone else. He may have thought there was an incident under way (and like all normal people) just wanted to get away from it. Given the state of dress and appearance of the police (in scruffy plain clothes) the man may well have heard the call and thought he was about to be mugged!

T. Hedley, Sheffield, UK

A shooting like this - and the manner in which it was carried out - is only justifiable in a situation of the utmost certainty. I find it hard to accept that an innocent young man has lost his life in such a terrifying manner. In addition, the police have hamstrung themselves at the first opportunity. Because they will be wary of making another such blunder, it is likely that innocent people will die when police hesitate to act on someone who really is a menace.

Jay, London UK

He was shot five times, why could they not have wounded him instead. Trigger happy police is not what's needed now.

Larry Mamtora, London, UK

Having pinned the man down and cleared the immediate vicinity, why not establish the threat he poses before pumping him with lead. It goes against the nature of British police and will spark further distrust from the Muslim community, which will not help the problem.

Tom, Ottawa, Canada

Edited July 24, 2005 by Sir Burr

[the scouser]

if someone was told by police to stop, then vaulted over the ticket barrier & ran down the platform then I would expect the visably armed police to shoot him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

At last! In one fell swoop the fare-dodging problem has been resolved.

Scouse.

[Thomas_Merton]

Was we not informed when the man was first shot that he was linked to anti terror organisations?

If the authorities announced this, they must've had evidence about it, so why is he suddenly an innocent electrician now?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think we all have to realise that in an operational situation all press releases may have several agendas, many we may not be aware of, but most certainly the least important will be the truth.

Because whatever you (we) are told, the terrorist is also told.

[Thomas_Merton]

Some comments from the general public taken from the BBC's web-site:-

...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm not quite sure of your point here.

Should we all post a list of what our family, friends, mates down the pub and readers of the Preston Evening News think?

What contribution does it make to the debate between members of Thaivisa?

Contributions from the general public on the BBC's website come from people no better or less informed than TV's members.

[The_Eye_Of_Sauron]

Should we all post a list of what our family, friends, mates down the pub and readers of the Preston Evening News think?

Here's what my Mum thinks (her letter arrived yesterday)

Dear Eye of Sauron.

Blah blah blah....(about thyroid, then about going to a Wedding)

"I shot to the telly and saw what was happening. A cross section lost their lives so it could be a bringing together of different faiths. lets hope so"

Then something about asylum seekers, and a bit about growing grapefruit.

Thats all from her. Hope this helps.

[RamdomChances]

Ok imagine this senario.

You are an armed police man on a check point iat the london underground. All of a suden you get a msg over the radio that " a suspected terrosist bomber is heading your way description.... wearing....... You see some one fitting the description, you call for him to stop, he does'nt!! You have a wife and family at home and loads of people around. What do you do?

Forget all this shoting in the leg ect BS or shoting to disable nobody is trained for that, usually they are trained to hit the main body mass or the head. You cant hit him in the body and unless someone is very very good you wont get a garanted head shot in from more than a few meters. If he has a bomb you have no idea how it is triggered. So you tackle him as he goes down do you really think you would be thinking about weather it might be better to take him alive as he might have more info or would you be thinking about getting home and seeing your wife and kids again?

Anyway its just one senario. Without actually being there its a bit difficult to judge what actually happened.

[The_Eye_Of_Sauron]

What do you do?

Blow my Police Whistle.

Clip him round the ear then give him a good ticking off.

[OlRedEyes]

We are forgetting one thing --- The element of doubt and his rights.

In view of this and IMO 4 shots to the head should have sufficed

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In view of the latest developments I’m going to rescind this post.

In doing so I’m in no way bowing down to the ‘Hand Wringers’, ‘Do Gooders’ or ‘Social Engineers’ that may exist on this forum. There is collateral damage in war and what is happening in London is war.

I shall just go into standby on this topic until the final investigations are complete.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Aahhh. Colateral damage. Another good gift of America to the world. Biggest colateral damage in this war will be to human rights.

[Rumpole]

I don't care if it was one bullet of 20, the guy was stupid & he paid the price & if he is innocent of being a terrorist then you have to ask what he WAS guilty of to make him run, as no-one I know would be that stupid

Exactly. He may have even been one of those visa runner type characters.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, this thought also went through my mind. A Brazillian working as an electrician? Not sure whether he would be able to get working papers for that. If he was an illegal immigrant, that may offer some explanation why he didn't stop if/when challenged.

Edited July 24, 2005 by Rumpole