I Want To Vomit...

[cloudhopper]

Asia will export to Asia, and that will grow their economies.

Dream on

[cloudhopper]

These three governments are going to keep printing money in order to rob their citizens of their savings and pensions. It is the only way that they can avoid bankruptcy.

You mean it's the way they are going to go bankrupt.

[electau]

Read here:

http://www.theage.com.au/business/imf-warns-of-global-currency-war-risk-20101006-167uw.html?autostart=1

[cloudhopper]

What do you think would happen to the US if China orchestrated a selling of all their Dollar reserves along with other Asian countries? All 2 Trillion! You think the $ is devaluing fast now, just wait! China aint no dummy, they have been leaders in business only for a few thousand years!

They would then realize what idiots they have been by trading manufactured goods for the same worthless paper that they have pegged their currency to.

[cloudhopper]

Yes, eventually. Dont forget, there are many other countries that can take up the role of importer from the US.

Such as?

[cloudhopper]

There would be a crash in all fiat currency. The USA would have the most gold and the biggest guns. They'd also have Iraqi oil and control of the Middle East. China would have their dick in their hand. What, you think the Yuan is going to become the global reserve currency?

Exactly.

Edited October 6, 2010 by cloudhopper

[flying]

There would be a crash in all fiat currency. The USA would have the most gold and the biggest guns.

Bullish on gold & silver of course but....

I was just curious while I agree about the guns as we have more than the average bear but....What makes you feel that USA has the most gold? Is it that old 1950's inventory report that reads fort knox has 8000 tons?

[Naam]

Yes, eventually. Dont forget, there are many other countries that can take up the role of importer from the US.

Such as?

the Christmas Islands

[flying]

Yes, the Thai Baht makes real estate in the USA cheaper, the only problem is that you actually have to live there to take advantage of it. You also have to pay property tax. Probably around $5,400/year for your 6m baht home. Don't forget capital gains tax once you sell (never mind that inflation will probably be growing by 5% a year - that is not accounted for when the IRS takes the price you paid vs the price you sold at). Historically, American real estate has barely beaten inflation, although I doubt Thailand is much different.

If you are planning on moving to the USA, then cheap housing is a plus. If you are trying to take advantage of cheap US housing by purchasing a second home to rent out, I think you are going to shoot yourself in the foot. Simply buy home building index stocks, it's the same principle.

Not actually....The facts are that you can own a home in the US & live elsewhere. You can rent it out...or not.

As for taxes they are actually a fraction of what you said. Your example of a 6 million baht home/ $200k USD being taxed at $5400 a year is pretty unheard of....More like 10-20% of that with the exemption Especially if it is your only home & you claim a homeowner exemption. None actually check if you live there. It is after all your only primary US residence.

Lastly at sale time of a primary residence if you keep the home at least 2 years your capital tax is only on anything above 500k profit if married or 250k if single....Not that bad eh?

Now if you want to talk about income tax rape via employment well that is another story

Edited October 7, 2010 by flying

[Naam]

As for taxes they are actually a fraction of what you said. Your example of a 6 million baht home/ $200k USD being taxed at $5400 a year is pretty unheard of....

NO they are not a fraction Flying. actually they are very much in line with average Florida property taxes even if homeowners exemption is taken into account. southern Florida rates are an average of 3 per thousand. check some counties in Jersey or San Francisco and start weeping when yoiu see double and triple the taxes!

also incorrect is "nobody checks". i lived in Volusia County and met the taxman once a year who used to ask me what what value i added to my home in order to increase the taxable value which -i admit- was 15-20% below market price when i lived there. in the meantime home owners are complaining that the tax values are far above actual market prices.

[lannarebirth]

As for taxes they are actually a fraction of what you said. Your example of a 6 million baht home/ $200k USD being taxed at $5400 a year is pretty unheard of....

NO they are not a fraction Flying. actually they are very much in line with average Florida property taxes even if homeowners exemption is taken into account. southern Florida rates are an average of 3 per thousand. check some counties in Jersey or San Francisco and start weeping when yoiu see double and triple the taxes!

also incorrect is "nobody checks". i lived in Volusia County and met the taxman once a year who used to ask me what what value i added to my home in order to increase the taxable value which -i admit- was 15-20% below market price when i lived there. in the meantime home owners are complaining that the tax values are far above actual market prices.

Most states fall inthe 1.2% - 1.7% pa tax levies. I have seen some states with as high as 4% pa levies . I was looking at some waterfront today in a western state. Taxes at nosebleed levels and price marked down at about 55% discount to a few years ago. I commented to the broker "at least the taxes would get reset". He commented "not so!". That's a new one on me. Previously in my experience a new sale price reset the assessment. What bastards these folks be.

Edited October 7, 2010 by lannarebirth

[flying]

As for taxes they are actually a fraction of what you said. Your example of a 6 million baht home/ $200k USD being taxed at $5400 a year is pretty unheard of....

NO they are not a fraction Flying. actually they are very much in line with average Florida property taxes even if homeowners exemption is taken into account. southern Florida rates are an average of 3 per thousand. check some counties in Jersey or San Francisco and start weeping when you see double and triple the taxes!

also incorrect is "nobody checks". i lived in Volusia County and met the taxman once a year who used to ask me what what value i added to my home in order to increase the taxable value which -i admit- was 15-20% below market price when i lived there. in the meantime home owners are complaining that the tax values are far above actual market prices.

Yes that does not sound bad @ 3 per $1000 valuation.

If we are thinking the same?

Here is a nice map active link from Dec 2009

It does use an example in Florida of a $218,700.00 home & the tax is $1860 per year.

The markets value being lower than tax values is sometimes true. But most or I should say our tax office will accept an appraisal if you complain. Also they revalue every two years so at times it is the other way around & your home is undervalued & they get less taxes...but we dont complain

You know there is also an exemption now for folks over 65 with lower incomes. I am not sure if you need to be a US citizen? But it is based on your income & your prop tax will not exceed it.

As for the nobody checks.....yes your right but I meant as to your actual yearly live in usage.

As for the improvements yes they do check both via building permits issued & also as you say sometimes just a drive by.

Also a NEW 3rd way.... I recently saw on the news here that in either Texas or California folks were mad that the county caught many with google earth. hahaha They could see folks added pools easily & upped their taxes as well as fine them for no permits ....sheesh...Talk about big brother watching eh?

[flying]

Previously in my experience a new sale price reset the assessment. What bastards these folks be.

These days they (Tax Valuations ) re-value every two years in many States & not constantly based on recent sales.

It is a problem for folks selling too.

Because the appraisals are in conflict with the tax valuations. But like I said above at times it is in your favor too.

Just not recently hahah

[kpmsprtd]

Northern California. 3 bedroom / 2 bath home previously assessed at US$275K. Annual property taxes = $3800

Home currently valued at US$223K. Annual property taxes = $3200

We don't have to sell the home or make any kind of request in order to get reassessed. We just get a letter from the county clerk each year when the property value goes down again. In the back of my mind, I remember something about getting letters about property value (and property taxes) going up, but that seems long ago and far away...

California Proposition 13, passed decades ago, protects California residents somewhat from insane property taxes, but at the same time contributes to serious state government funding issues.

[kuffki]

anyone recall year 1997?? and times when USD=25THB????

What happened after that??? big BOOM-CRASH.

History usually repeats itself, only this time will be much worse then the previous.

[Jingthing]

The US housing market is somewhere near the bottom, that is obvious.

It's obvious that it's not even close to the bottom.

I agree. Now is not the time to buy....

For the record, I meant foreclosures and pre-foreclosures. There are so many that buying anything retail is foolish now.

This brings up the gloating issue. Most of the people in foreclosure are suffering. While if I had the cash I wouldn't have a problem buying their distressed property, before or after it becomes bank owned, I also wouldn't think to be rude or gloating to human beings who are currently on the suffering end of the stick.

Edited October 7, 2010 by Jingthing

[Naam]

anyone recall year 1997?? and times when USD=25THB????

What happened after that??? big BOOM-CRASH.

History usually repeats itself, only this time will be much worse then the previous.

and victory will be on our side!

[Moonrakers]

anyone recall year 1997?? and times when USD=25THB????

What happened after that??? big BOOM-CRASH.

History usually repeats itself, only this time will be much worse then the previous.

I bloody well hope so. I get paid in foreign currency and these rates are beginning to hurt.

[cloudhopper]

Most of the people in foreclosure are suffering.

Hey Jing your hero has a chance to do something about it.

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/hr3808-equivalent-tarp-2-and-obamas-get-out-jail-gift-card-high-frequency-signing-scandal

Think he will?

[Chunky1]

Welcome to Florida, the land of no income taxes — and killer property taxes. Whether it's a nightmare for someone who just purchased a Florida foreclosure or a tax hike that proves the last straw for some struggling homeowner, it's bad news for the individual, and increasingly for the state. It's also a painful reminder of the halcyon days when Florida's economy could lazily rely on soaring real estate prices — and related taxes — to pour ever more money into government coffers. Now local governments say they're broke, thanks to the housing bust, and many are trying to maintain the lofty property-tax rates levied during the housing boom or even increase them — even though that could exacerbate the housing bust.

Truth is, a dysfunctional property-tax system has been haunting Florida, if not many other states, far longer than the recession has. Over the past generation, Florida's explosive but fecklessly managed growth drove up real estate values, and therefore property taxes, beyond the reach of more and more families. In the 1990s the state adopted a "homestead" measure which, when homeowners become eligible for it, caps their assessed property-value increases at 3% a year (part-time residents don't qualify). But when houses are sold, a far higher base assessment usually applies, creating absurd situations in which neighbors with similar properties pay wildly disparate taxes. And during the boom, in expensive markets like South Florida, homeowners who had yet to qualify for the cap often saw their property levies double in just a few years — a big reason half of all South Floridians in a 2007 Zogby International poll said they were considering moving out of the state.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1907198,00.html#ixzz11ic1vQ2W

[Naam]

Over the past generation, Florida's explosive but fecklessly managed growth drove up real estate values, and therefore property taxes, beyond the reach of more and more families. In the 1990s the state adopted a "homestead" measure which, when homeowners become eligible for it, caps their assessed property-value increases at 3% a year (part-time residents don't qualify).

we were fulltime residents, federal tax payers and approved for homestead exemption. in our county no such thing like a cap existed. just looked it up in an old spreadsheet. the tax increase 2002/2003 was 17% and 2003/2004 was 9% and based what the buyer told us i calculated a huge increase 2006/2007.

luckily both of us, albeit foreigners, had U.S. social security numbers marked "not for employment", otherwise the closing agent would have had to hold back 10% of the selling price for Messrs. IRS.

[dsfbrit]

The good old says - remember and weep

Currency Exchange Rate Date : 7 October 2004

Update : 1 Effective From : 8:30 [unit : Baht per 1 unit of foreign currency]

Currency Description Bank Note Buying Rates Selling Rates

Bill-DD-TT

Buying Rates Selling Rates Sight Bill TT

USD1 USD : 1 40.22 41.60

USD5 USD : 5-20 40.60 41.60

USD50 USD : 50-100 41.05 41.65 41.25 41.35 41.50

GBP United Kingdom 72.52 74.31 73.26000 73.45750 74.05750

EUR Euro Zone 50.23 51.28 50.52750 50.64500 51.10750

[cloudhopper]

The good old says - remember and weep

That's exactly when I bought land and built a house here.

It's always better to be lucky than good.

[Naam]

The good old says - remember and weep

That's exactly when I bought land and built a house here. It's always better to be lucky than good.

i was lucky too but later in july 2005 when i bought land and all Baht needed for construction. unfortunately i don't see the slighest chance that these good times will come back in the foreseeable future

[cloudhopper]

Yes, eventually. Dont forget, there are many other countries that can take up the role of importer from the US.

Such as?

Ummm, the rest of the world. The world will go on even if the US is not the largest consumer.

The world will go on but with a vastly different financial landscape because there is no country or group of countries that can possibly duplicate the credit-fueled consumption that ensued in the US since Nixon reneged on the BW treaty in '71. It was a one off and it's over.

[britmaveric]

Currency exchange rates are cyclic - remember what goes down normally goes back up. Just way of the world - just hope you can ride it out until situation goes back the other way.

[Chunky1]

Currency exchange rates are cyclic - remember what goes down normally goes back up. Just way of the world - just hope you can ride it out until situation goes back the other way.

Maybe when global warming swallows Thailand?

[jcon]

Most states fall inthe 1.2% - 1.7% pa tax levies. I have seen some states with as high as 4% pa levies . I was looking at some waterfront today in a western state. Taxes at nosebleed levels and price marked down at about 55% discount to a few years ago. I commented to the broker "at least the taxes would get reset". He commented "not so!". That's a new one on me. Previously in my experience a new sale price reset the assessment. What bastards these folks be.

As for taxes they are actually a fraction of what you said. Your example of a 6 million baht home/ $200k USD being taxed at $5400 a year is pretty unheard of....

NO they are not a fraction Flying. actually they are very much in line with average Florida property taxes even if homeowners exemption is taken into account. southern Florida rates are an average of 3 per thousand. check some counties in Jersey or San Francisco and start weeping when you see double and triple the taxes!

also incorrect is "nobody checks". i lived in Volusia County and met the taxman once a year who used to ask me what what value i added to my home in order to increase the taxable value which -i admit- was 15-20% below market price when i lived there. in the meantime home owners are complaining that the tax values are far above actual market prices.

Yes that does not sound bad @ 3 per $1000 valuation.

If we are thinking the same?

Here is a nice map active link from Dec 2009

It does use an example in Florida of a $218,700.00 home & the tax is $1860 per year.

The markets value being lower than tax values is sometimes true. But most or I should say our tax office will accept an appraisal if you complain. Also they revalue every two years so at times it is the other way around & your home is undervalued & they get less taxes...but we dont complain

You know there is also an exemption now for folks over 65 with lower incomes. I am not sure if you need to be a US citizen? But it is based on your income & your prop tax will not exceed it.

As for the nobody checks.....yes your right but I meant as to your actual yearly live in usage.

As for the improvements yes they do check both via building permits issued & also as you say sometimes just a drive by.

Also a NEW 3rd way.... I recently saw on the news here that in either Texas or California folks were mad that the county caught many with google earth. hahaha They could see folks added pools easily & upped their taxes as well as fine them for no permits ....sheesh...Talk about big brother watching eh?

In Michigan they come around once per year for assessment.

I've yet to see anything even close to 1.2-1.7% lanna mentioned. More like over 4% - though obviously it depends on your community/school district/etc. I haven't seen assessments get out of hand over this last ''housing boom.'' Appraisals, yes. Assessments, not so much (and the Taxable Amount seems just a little bit under the Assessment).

If you don't get the Primary Residence Exemption (Homestead), then you'll paying ~40-45% more in taxes.

Two real examples (rounded approximations):

House 1:

Sale price: $250,000

Assessment $250,000

Taxable: $240,000

Property Tax: $11,000

(Non-Homestead): $15,000

House 2:

Sale Price: $850,000

Assessment: $340,000

Taxable: $330,000

Property Tax: $15,000

(Non-Homestead): $21,000

That's 4.5% Property Tax on both properties. For the 2nd house it's a little ''better'' at "1.76% of the Sale Price" (hey, however you want to rationalize it...) but the percentage tax on Assessment is the same.

The $1,860 tax on the ~220K house in Florida seems ridiculous to me. Even the other poster in Northern Cali that posted that the Assessment was 275K and the tax was (I don't remember) seems low. Are you folks saying FL and CA property taxes are 1/4-1/2 cheaper than Michigan's property taxes????? Are those numbers you guys putting up anecdotal or have you actually paid the taxes/owned the property?

Yeah obviously there is the ''neighborhood'' to take into account, but really????

So for that 200K house in Florida, I'd have guessed almost 10grand per annum in Property Tax - and without the Primary Residence Exemption, at the very least $1,000/month... But if you insist that it's less than a couple thousand dollars (PER YEAR?) then hey, go buy it... I just find it hard to believe (given what I've seen). I just don't see taxes in Michigan > California > Florida. Who knows, maybe I underestimate the Great Lakes State....

Back on topic,

Sorry to be the harbinger of bad news to the OP, but I think that if you feel like vomiting now, then you may actually vomit when the THB goes even further... (though britmaveric can keep being rosy - remember those jovial forecasts of 70+THB/1GBP? )

edit: Just looked up some land around the House 2 above. Bare land for sale at $225,000 - Taxable Value is $35,659. Estimated property tax (without Primary Res Exemption) is $1936 - more than the tax mentioned for the 200K Florida property.... Those number come straight from the city (that's about 5.4%).

Incidentally, I just thought about how these taxes are, again, basically taxes on the middle-class. In the middle-class "House 1" above, they are paying 4.5% for their property taxes, and while the owners of "House 2" are also paying the same rate, they are paying significantly less as a percentage of the sale price of the house (and also, most likely as a percentage of their income - and even if you guys say "the house is over-valued" it really doesn't matter, especially if paid in cash). I can understand why a person with money would buy up a big house like that where the Assessments are low relative to what you could get in the lower price ranges (I'm not saying it is right, I'm just saying that it IS).

(and britmav - you were calling for 70 after we had gone below it... but hey, at least you're jovial about it!!!)

Edited October 7, 2010 by jcon

[britmaveric]

^well I was right for short period.

[Bakeman]

EXCELLENT POINT NEVERDIE!!!!! :jap:

Go lower, go lower YEAH!. That new house I'm looking to buy in Florida that would have cost me 6.6 million baht just 2 months ago, now only cost me about 6 million baht and if it goes down to 25 baht to the dollar. That 6.6 million baht house is only gonna cost me 5 million baht. GO LOWER, GO LOWER!!!!! Since I am working in Thailand and get paid in Thai Baht. This dramatically increases my purchase power when I send money back home or order things from the internet. Those of you who are getting social security and other checks from the USA and your monthly money is actually getting smaller. BOO HOO!!!!

You want to take GOOD STRONG THAI BAHT & put it into the floundering and miserable US housing market MADNESS!