I Want To Vomit...

[lannarebirth]

Most states fall inthe 1.2% - 1.7% pa tax levies. I have seen some states with as high as 4% pa levies . I was looking at some waterfront today in a western state. Taxes at nosebleed levels and price marked down at about 55% discount to a few years ago. I commented to the broker "at least the taxes would get reset". He commented "not so!". That's a new one on me. Previously in my experience a new sale price reset the assessment. What bastards these folks be.

As for taxes they are actually a fraction of what you said. Your example of a 6 million baht home/ $200k USD being taxed at $5400 a year is pretty unheard of....

NO they are not a fraction Flying. actually they are very much in line with average Florida property taxes even if homeowners exemption is taken into account. southern Florida rates are an average of 3 per thousand. check some counties in Jersey or San Francisco and start weeping when you see double and triple the taxes!

also incorrect is "nobody checks". i lived in Volusia County and met the taxman once a year who used to ask me what what value i added to my home in order to increase the taxable value which -i admit- was 15-20% below market price when i lived there. in the meantime home owners are complaining that the tax values are far above actual market prices.

Yes that does not sound bad @ 3 per $1000 valuation.

If we are thinking the same?

Here is a nice map active link from Dec 2009

It does use an example in Florida of a $218,700.00 home & the tax is $1860 per year.

The markets value being lower than tax values is sometimes true. But most or I should say our tax office will accept an appraisal if you complain. Also they revalue every two years so at times it is the other way around & your home is undervalued & they get less taxes...but we dont complain

You know there is also an exemption now for folks over 65 with lower incomes. I am not sure if you need to be a US citizen? But it is based on your income & your prop tax will not exceed it.

As for the nobody checks.....yes your right but I meant as to your actual yearly live in usage.

As for the improvements yes they do check both via building permits issued & also as you say sometimes just a drive by.

Also a NEW 3rd way.... I recently saw on the news here that in either Texas or California folks were mad that the county caught many with google earth. hahaha They could see folks added pools easily & upped their taxes as well as fine them for no permits ....sheesh...Talk about big brother watching eh?

In Michigan they come around once per year for assessment.

I've yet to see anything even close to 1.2-1.7% lanna mentioned. More like over 4% - though obviously it depends on your community/school district/etc. I haven't seen assessments get out of hand over this last ''housing boom.'' Appraisals, yes. Assessments, not so much (and the Taxable Amount seems just a little bit under the Assessment).

If you don't get the Primary Residence Exemption (Homestead), then you'll paying ~40-45% more in taxes.

Two real examples (rounded approximations):

House 1:

Sale price: $250,000

Assessment $250,000

Taxable: $240,000

Property Tax: $11,000

(Non-Homestead): $15,000

House 2:

Sale Price: $850,000

Assessment: $340,000

Taxable: $330,000

Property Tax: $15,000

(Non-Homestead): $21,000

That's 4.5% Property Tax on both properties. For the 2nd house it's a little ''better'' at "1.76% of the Sale Price" (hey, however you want to rationalize it...) but the percentage tax on Assessment is the same.

The $1,860 tax on the ~220K house in Florida seems ridiculous to me. Even the other poster in Northern Cali that posted that the Assessment was 275K and the tax was (I don't remember) seems low. Are you folks saying FL and CA property taxes are 1/4-1/2 cheaper than Michigan's property taxes????? Are those numbers you guys putting up anecdotal or have you actually paid the taxes/owned the property?

Yeah obviously there is the ''neighborhood'' to take into account, but really????

So for that 200K house in Florida, I'd have guessed almost 10grand per annum in Property Tax - and without the Primary Residence Exemption, at the very least $1,000/month... But if you insist that it's less than a couple thousand dollars (PER YEAR?) then hey, go buy it... I just find it hard to believe (given what I've seen). I just don't see taxes in Michigan > California > Florida. Who knows, maybe I underestimate the Great Lakes State....

Back on topic,

Sorry to be the harbinger of bad news to the OP, but I think that if you feel like vomiting now, then you may actually vomit when the THB goes even further... (though britmaveric can keep being rosy - remember those jovial forecasts of 70+THB/1GBP? )

edit: Just looked up some land around the House 2 above. Bare land for sale at $225,000 - Taxable Value is $35,659. Estimated property tax (without Primary Res Exemption) is $1936 - more than the tax mentioned for the 200K Florida property.... Those number come straight from the city (that's about 5.4%).

Incidentally, I just thought about how these taxes are, again, basically taxes on the middle-class. In the middle-class "House 1" above, they are paying 4.5% for their property taxes, and while the owners of "House 2" are also paying the same rate, they are paying significantly less as a percentage of the sale price of the house (and also, most likely as a percentage of their income - and even if you guys say "the house is over-valued" it really doesn't matter, especially if paid in cash). I can understand why a person with money would buy up a big house like that where the Assessments are low relative to what you could get in the lower price ranges (I'm not saying it is right, I'm just saying that it IS).

(and britmav - you were calling for 70 after we had gone below it... but hey, at least you're jovial about it!!!)

jcon,

4%-5% property taxes are extortionate. I think the range i posted is in keeping with the majority of locales, though it is effectively higher now as many properties are assessed too high.

[trogers]

That's why it is better to rent than to buy in the US.

[ianguygil]

jcon,

4%-5% property taxes are extortionate. I think the range i posted is in keeping with the majority of locales, though it is effectively higher now as many properties are assessed too high.

I think there is a huge range in the US. I also have property in Northern Cal and the taxes there for me are low as I have owned it for a long time. CA has a high income tax. Some other states do not have income taxes (FL, WA, NV) and so there is a higher property tax. Some taxes like OR have no sales tax. So they all have to raise revenue and do it in different ways. In my experience the taxes in CA are just above 1% of the last sales price, adjusted at a low percentage each year, plus some local levies for the county and city. So people like me who have owned property for a long time tend to have lower taxes than the people next door who bought it in the past 5-10 years.

I do have friends in CT and MA and their taxes as a percentage of the property value are definitely in the 4% - 5% range. Maybe higher even than that.

[Naam]

I've yet to see anything even close to 1.2-1.7% lanna mentioned. More like over 4% - though obviously it depends on your community/school district/etc.

BINGO! twelve miles away one of the biggest power plants is the main tax payer for the community where it is located. inhabitants paid a fraction what we paid as we lived in a "sleeper city" where not even light industry was allowed to be established. result = virtually no income from corporate taxes.

[Naam]

sorry, double posting.

Edited October 7, 2010 by Naam

[mrmillersr]

I think we could be getting very close to the "perfect storm" as it applies to the entire US economy. Every aspect of it is under severe stress and at every level - local, state and federal.

Many cities are now needing to be bailed out from the states in order to stay afloat, and the states in turn need handouts from the federal government.

The problem is the federal government is flat out broke and the only ones currently bailing the US government out are countries like China that are still buying US debt. Unfortunately, this cycle cannot go on forever and once the chain is broken the game comes to a crashing end.

Currently, the US housing market is in a complete state of turmoil. No one knows where the bottom is but projections are there could be further price declines of 20% from where they are now. Nearly 1 in 4 is underwater owing more on the house than the house is worth and estimates are up to 11 million with a mortgage (1 in 5) could eventually default.

Throw in the job market which is in shambles with many jobs gone forever, millions unemployed and on extended benefits, billions in unfunded pension plans and declining revenues while deficits are exploding with no end in sight and you have the making for the "perfect storm".

So what's on the horizon? Will it be another Great Depression or perhaps a case of hyperinflation? In the end it makes no difference. Game over - checkmate.

[Englander]

Im paid in dollars and will soon be heading back to Blighty, anyone got any decent suggestions where to invest dollars as there are plenty of nations who peg their currency to the $.

<deleted> me those property taxes are high if its just for living in, i can understand taxing landowners, buy2letters and the like, but i always thought America offered fairly low taxation.

[Jingthing]

The perfect storm ALREADY happened. Obama saved us from a great depression; the only problem was the stimulus should have been much bigger, so the recovery is slow. Now he is being spanked for this, good deeds never go unpunished.

Edited October 8, 2010 by Jingthing

[flying]

The perfect storm ALREADY happened. Obama saved us from a great depression; the only problem was the stimulus should have been much bigger, so the recovery is slow. Now he is being spanked for this, good deeds never go unpunished.

Hahah thanks for the laugh....Saved us eh? yep ok dream on

Dont get the wrong idea though....I am not saying the other wing of the same bird could have saved us either.

The feast has been had & its time to pay the bill no matter who is in the so called seat of power.

But never has one so played the hope & change card & then delivered squat as this one has.Very disappointing & come Nov he will probably lose the house due to it. Basically making him lame for the remainder of his single term.

Edited October 8, 2010 by flying

[Englander]

The perfect storm ALREADY happened. Obama saved us from a great depression; the only problem was the stimulus should have been much bigger, so the recovery is slow. Now he is being spanked for this, good deeds never go unpunished.

The stimulus was just a continuation of Bushes policy and it hasnt worked, it looks as if the great depression is now upon us all these governments dropping interest rates clost to 0% and printing money has just delayed the inevitable.

What they ought to do is double taxes so the people of today are made to pay for being so fcuken stupid to keep voting for 1 of 2 almost identical parties (1 in 3 in the UK) and they pay their own debt, to save tomorrows children from having to pay the debt that you and your generation is currently living the high life from.

[Jingthing]

Bunch of chicken littles here. Make your bets on gold then, suckers.

[IMA_FARANG]

Pardon me for being "economically ignorant" I guess, but here's my question.

If it is the Thai baht which is becoming "stronger" against the U.S. dollar...if it's the strength of the Baht that is really driving baht/dollar echange rates....then why is the baht/pound rate staying approximately the same? Or why is the baht/Euro rate also staying about the same?

Isn't it fact that the DOLLAR is losing value against the BAHT, not the BAHT that is getting stronger? Because if the value of the BAHT was really increasing, wouldn't it also be increasing against the POUND and the EURO also?

So, in fact, isn't it really the case that the DOLLAR is being manipulated and forced lower in comparative value, not the BAHT being raised in value?

Just wondering.

[evanson]

Thats too bad, as there are brokers here that are international and have good reps. And the truth be told, can you really trust a broker anywhere?

i wouldn't trust any broker anywhere on this planet VIBE! that's why my assets are handled by three multinational banks in jurisdictions where clear laws exist, namely Singapore, Switzerland and Luxembourg.

Wow!

[cloudhopper]

So, in fact, isn't it really the case that the DOLLAR is being manipulated and forced lower in comparative value, not the BAHT being raised in value?

Just wondering.

I don't know about manipulated and forced but it is definitely the forex market reaction to speculation that the US Fed is going to create another trillion-plus Timmybucks USD and go all in Nov 3.

edit - and Goldman Suchs says that QE of at least that much is already priced into the stock market. Meaning that that they've loaded up on crap to unload into the coming taxpayer-funded POMO buying.

Edited October 8, 2010 by cloudhopper

[Naam]

Pardon me for being "economically ignorant" I guess, but here's my question.

If it is the Thai baht which is becoming "stronger" against the U.S. dollar...if it's the strength of the Baht that is really driving baht/dollar echange rates....then why is the baht/pound rate staying approximately the same? Or why is the baht/Euro rate also staying about the same?

1. Isn't it fact that the DOLLAR is losing value against the BAHT, not the BAHT that is getting stronger? Because if the value of the BAHT was really increasing, wouldn't it also be increasing against the POUND and the EURO also?

2. So, in fact, isn't it really the case that the DOLLAR is being manipulated and forced lower in comparative value, not the BAHT being raised in value?

Just wondering.

1. correct assumption

2. wrong assumption

[Naam]

So, in fact, isn't it really the case that the DOLLAR is being manipulated and forced lower in comparative value, not the BAHT being raised in value?

Just wondering.

I don't know about manipulated and forced but it is definitely the forex market reaction to speculation that the US Fed is going to create another trillion plus USD and go all in Nov 3.

and the winner is........... cloudhopper!

[Naam]

Im paid in dollars and will soon be heading back to Blighty, anyone got any decent suggestions where to invest dollars as there are plenty of nations who peg their currency to the $.

<deleted> me those property taxes are high if its just for living in, i can understand taxing landowners, buy2letters and the like, but i always thought America offered fairly low taxation.

property taxes are indeed high but federal income tax is (especially compared to Europe) quite low. one has to look at the total tax burden to get the right picture.

[britmaveric]

^actually from what I read I think the total tax burden for most yanks if you include every jurisdiction, sales, and property is somewhere close to 50%.

Any rate things are not as dire as one thinks - remember if a worst case scenario were to happen - it would create a cascade effect around the world. Every place will tank.

[teatree]

Bunch of chicken littles here. Make your bets on gold then, suckers.

Hmmm...gold up over 26% in the last 12 months.

[mrmillersr]

^actually from what I read I think the total tax burden for most yanks if you include every jurisdiction, sales, and property is somewhere close to 50%.

Any rate things are not as dire as one thinks - remember if a worst case scenario were to happen - it would create a cascade effect around the world. Every place will tank.

That's the naive thinking of many, especially Americans - the US is too big to fail and the rest of the world needs America to survive for their own survival.

While that may have been somewhat true in the past, that is quickly changing. The world's largest creditor nation has now become the world's biggest debtor. Read the news. China is quickly looking to expand its trade agreements with other countries around the world that will pick up the slack as the US continues it's inevitable slide. Check it out and you will see that currently USA trade accounts for less than 5% of China's GDP. In other words, China and the rest of the world is weaning off the US as they will also do with the US dollar.

And everyone should know by now, there is a concentrated effort to replace the US dollar as the world's reserve currency. It's not if and maybe, it's just when. The US no longer controls it's own destiny and unfortunately it doesn't have the backing or allies it needs to make it out of the mess it has created this time. My prediction is we are 24 months or less to a major US melt down. It's a bet, however, I hope I don't win but I'm afraid I might.

[britmaveric]

^funny enough I heard the same thing 2yrs ago and yanks are still chugging along. I wouldn't take that wager.

[Jingthing]

Bunch of chicken littles here. Make your bets on gold then, suckers.

Hmmm...gold up over 26% in the last 12 months.

So buy now? Good luck.

[cloudhopper]

The world's largest creditor nation has now become the world's biggest debtor.

And who's problem is that in the end?

Read the news. China is quickly looking to expand its trade agreements with other countries around the world that will pick up the slack as the US continues it's inevitable slide.

What I'm reading is that by pegging it's currency to the USD instead of allowing it to be freely traded they are pissing off all the other countries trying not to trash their currency like the US seems hel_l bent on.

Check it out and you will see that currently USA trade accounts for less than 5% of China's GDP.

China and the rest of the world is weaning off the US as they will also do with the US dollar.

Yeah sure that's exactly why they are pegging thier currency to it.

And everyone should know by now, there is a concentrated effort to replace the US dollar as the world's reserve currency. It's not if and maybe, it's just when. The US no longer controls it's own destiny and unfortunately it doesn't have the backing or allies it needs to make it out of the mess it has created this time. My prediction is we are 24 months or less to a major US melt down. It's a bet, however, I hope I don't win but I'm afraid I might.

Well there might be a concentrated effort but it's sure not going to happen within your melt-down time frame. Everyone's going down when it happens and a new world currency won't stop it even if it appeared tomorrow.

[teletiger]

^funny enough I heard the same thing 2yrs ago and yanks are still chugging along. I wouldn't take that wager.

"Chugging along"? Hahaha, they're flying along. The wind is whipping up Ben's.......beard, as he throws more coal on the boiler. 'And that first big bend? "Itssaa comin' up".

Regards.

[Chunky1]

And everyone should know by now, there is a concentrated effort to replace the US dollar as the world's reserve currency.

To be replaced with what?

Edited October 8, 2010 by Chunky1

[teatree]

Bunch of chicken littles here. Make your bets on gold then, suckers.

Hmmm...gold up over 26% in the last 12 months.

So buy now? Good luck.

Well, a smart investor would have moved out USD and into gold a long time ago. But if anyone has USD right now then yes, I would recommend buying gold. Gold has gone up a lot, but it still has a long way to go, whereas the USD is only going right down the toilet in the long term.

Edited October 8, 2010 by teatree

[Jingthing]

And everyone should know by now, there is a concentrated effort to replace the US dollar as the world's reserve currency.

To be replaced with what?

The only thing that can replace it is the rembini and the Chinese are a very long way from letting that float. So its the dollar for the foreseeable future.

[britmaveric]

^I think most of us will be dead before the $ goes away!

I'd go short on gold in the long term.... when that bubble bursts many people will lose their shirts.

[flying]

^funny enough I heard the same thing 2yrs ago and yanks are still chugging along. I wouldn't take that wager.

"Chugging along"? Hahaha, they're flying along. The wind is whipping up Ben's.......beard, as he throws more coal on the boiler. 'And that first big bend? "Itssaa comin' up".

Regards.

:lol: Thanks TT that created quite the mental picture.

I did notice though that BM did not say in which direction we are chugging

Although it is quite obvious to those of us here.

[Chunky1]

lol @ the RMB being the reserve currency. which ever currency is the world's reserve currency will become heavily strengthened. the correct answer was gold. it already makes up most of the reserves for the usa/europe.

Edited October 8, 2010 by Chunky1