Russia Dissatisfied Over Thai Court's Dismissal Of Second Charge

[webfact]

BOUT VERDICT

Russia dissatisfied over court's dismissal of second charge

By The Nation

Lavrov

Lawyer vows to appeal so extradition can be delayed

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva yesterday signalled that the extradition of Russian arm dealer Viktor Bout to the US could be delayed further because Moscow is dissatisfied with the court's latest decision.

The premier discussed the matter with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov on the sidelines of the Asia-Europe Meeting in Brussels on Tuesday.

"Russia is dissatisfied with the court's verdict, but I have explained that the decision was made in accordance with the law as well as for the benefit of international relations," Abhisit said.

On Tuesday, the Criminal Court dismissed the second charge of money laundering and fraud filed by Washington against Bout due to inadequate evidence.

This ruling removes the one legal hurdle holding back the extradition of the alleged arms dealer, which was approved by the Appeals Court on August 20. Under the first ruling, Bout should be sent to the United States within 90 days to face trial for terrorism charges.

Bout was arrested in Bangkok in March 2008 during a US-led operation to catch him for his role in fuelling armed conflicts in different parts of the world and conspiring to kill American nationals.

However, his case became complicated due to legal technicalities. Even though Washington filed two requests to have him extradited, Thai authorities could not send Bout over before all his cases were reviewed.

Now, however, the extradition will go ahead unless the Office of Attorney-General appeals the verdict on the second round of charges. State prosecutors said earlier that they would not appeal, but Bout's lawyer Lak Nittiwattanawichan said he would file one anyway so the extradition is delayed.

If the court accepts the appeal, Bout's extradition would definitely go beyond the 90-day deadline.

Abhisit said he would instruct state prosecutors put in a court request to have the deadline extended.

Bout's case has put Abhisit's government in a real dilemma: on the one hand Washington is pushing for quick extradition, on the other Moscow is doing its best to block it.

The US has been a long-time ally, and now Thailand also wants to maintain good relations with Russia.

Abhisit tried to hand the hot potato over to the two countries, saying that they should make a deal on Bout on their own and not bring difficulty to Thailand.

Lavrov responded: "The suggestion that Russia and the United States should reach an agreement over the Bout case is beyond the sphere of law."

Russia cannot interfere in Bout's trial in Thailand and it hopes that attempts to interfere by other countries would be neglected, he said.

US Assistant Secretary of State Philip Crowley said Washington wanted Bout to be extradited as soon as possible.

"I think there's still - under Thai law - a kind of a procedural period of time following today's ruling, but we look forward to having Viktor Bout in a prison near us very soon," he said in a daily briefing on Tuesday.

Abhisit, meanwhile, said he would try to explain the matter to the US and Russian leaders on the sidelines of Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation meeting in Japan next month.

He said that as the prime minister, he would have the final say on the case but that he would only make a decision after consulting the Cabinet about the benefits of the country and its relations with the two super powers.

-- The Nation 2010-10-07

[SomTumTiger]

Could Russia be any more blatantly obvious? They don't want their arms subsidies of the "Lord of War" to come to light. Self interest reigns.

[brahmburgers]

Could Russia be any more blatantly obvious? They don't want their arms subsidies of the "Lord of War" to come to light. Self interest reigns.

I agree with the above comment. Bout will get sent to the US, beans will be spilled. Russian big shots will be implicated. Russia has been thru a lot tougher situations than this, and they'll get thru this one as well.

Thai authorities shouldn't get headaches over this imbroglio.

[SergeiY]

Could Russia be any more blatantly obvious? They don't want their arms subsidies of the "Lord of War" to come to light. Self interest reigns.

FYI: "Lord of War" is a Hollywood movie.

What do you mean?

To be not the cheerleader of a self declared world police doesn't mean that you are guilty. Hubris reigns, but not everywhere.

[craigt3365]

Could Russia be any more blatantly obvious? They don't want their arms subsidies of the "Lord of War" to come to light. Self interest reigns.

FYI: "Lord of War" is a Hollywood movie.

What do you mean?

To be not the cheerleader of a self declared world police doesn't mean that you are guilty. Hubris reigns, but not everywhere.

The movie was LOOSELY based on Viktor Bout. Who was called "Lord of War" before the movie was produced. Russia has gone way overboard on this one. It is obvious they don't want him in the US due the what he knows...and what may potentially come out. Russia would never go this far for one of it's "ordinary" citizens.

Send him to the US. Get him out of here and let's see what happens in the US courts. He will get a great lawyer and probably walk away a free man. Just like OJ Simpson!

[h90]

Could Russia be any more blatantly obvious? They don't want their arms subsidies of the "Lord of War" to come to light. Self interest reigns.

FYI: "Lord of War" is a Hollywood movie.

What do you mean?

To be not the cheerleader of a self declared world police doesn't mean that you are guilty. Hubris reigns, but not everywhere.

The movie was LOOSELY based on Viktor Bout. Who was called "Lord of War" before the movie was produced. Russia has gone way overboard on this one. It is obvious they don't want him in the US due the what he knows...and what may potentially come out. Russia would never go this far for one of it's "ordinary" citizens.

Send him to the US. Get him out of here and let's see what happens in the US courts. He will get a great lawyer and probably walk away a free man. Just like OJ Simpson!

very loosely. In the movie thy guy was from Ukraine and living in USA.

[SergeiY]

Could Russia be any more blatantly obvious? They don't want their arms subsidies of the "Lord of War" to come to light. Self interest reigns.

FYI: "Lord of War" is a Hollywood movie.

What do you mean?

To be not the cheerleader of a self declared world police doesn't mean that you are guilty. Hubris reigns, but not everywhere.

The movie was LOOSELY based on Viktor Bout. Who was called "Lord of War" before the movie was produced. Russia has gone way overboard on this one. It is obvious they don't want him in the US due the what he knows...and what may potentially come out. Russia would never go this far for one of it's "ordinary" citizens.

Send him to the US. Get him out of here and let's see what happens in the US courts. He will get a great lawyer and probably walk away a free man. Just like OJ Simpson!

FYI: A hollywood movie is a hollywood movie is a hollywood movie is fiction.

Why Russia has gone overboard? Just because they don't say yes and follow everything what the USA wants or why?

Let him go free and don't send him to the USA. He was there never before why should he go now? He isn't OJ Simpsons. The USA are not the world police.

Send all their soldiers and armed forces that fighting in other countries all over the world back home to the US.

[pedro01]

Could Russia be any more blatantly obvious? They don't want their arms subsidies of the "Lord of War" to come to light. Self interest reigns.

I agree with the above comment. Bout will get sent to the US, beans will be spilled. Russian big shots will be implicated. Russia has been thru a lot tougher situations than this, and they'll get thru this one as well.

Thai authorities shouldn't get headaches over this imbroglio.

I think you'll find that Bout has done work for he US too.

Maybe the reaso the US wants him so bad is so they can keep him quiet themselves.

[webfact]

PM will ask for more time for Bout´s extradition

BANGKOK (NNT) -- Prime Minister Abhisit Vajjajiva said the attorney general would file a request to the court for an extension of alleged Russian arms smuggler Viktor Bout extradition, citing that he wanted to maintain good relations with Russia.

Mr Abhisit said during the Asia-Europe Meeting (ASEM) in Belgium that he had a chance to meet Russian Foreign Minister. He told the Russian counterpart on the progress of Bout’s case and that the US had filed a second charge, which was fraud, against the alleged arms smuggler.

The Prime Minister said he would wait for the court's ruling before making a decision based on national and diplomatic interests. The appeal process could take up to 20 November 2010, which would be the last day of the three-month period that Thailand had to extradite Bout to Washington.

Mr Abhisit added that he would meet with the Russian and American leaders during the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation (APEC) Summit in Japan in mid November.

Viktor Anatolyevich Bout, known as the merchant of death, was arrested in Bangkok in 2008 for allegedly supplying weapons to the outlawed Colombian rebels, the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC). The Appeal Court in August decided to extradite Mr Bout to the US within three months, after the extradition request by the US had been rejected by the Bangkok Criminal Court in 2009.

Washington filed charges against Mr Bout for conspiracies in money-laundering and fraud in an attempt to keep Bout in custody in light of the Lower court's decision to free him. However, things turned around, and the US wanted Bout extradited immediately to the US. The Attorney General’s Office then filed petition to withdraw the charges, complying with Washington's wish to speed up the extradition process. But the Criminal Court rejected the charge withdrawal petition and now the extradition of the Russian arms dealer must be delayed until the trial has run its course.

-- NNT 2010-10-07

[pedro01]

Could Russia be any more blatantly obvious? They don't want their arms subsidies of the "Lord of War" to come to light. Self interest reigns.

FYI: "Lord of War" is a Hollywood movie.

What do you mean?

To be not the cheerleader of a self declared world police doesn't mean that you are guilty. Hubris reigns, but not everywhere.

The movie was LOOSELY based on Viktor Bout. Who was called "Lord of War" before the movie was produced. Russia has gone way overboard on this one. It is obvious they don't want him in the US due the what he knows...and what may potentially come out. Russia would never go this far for one of it's "ordinary" citizens.

Send him to the US. Get him out of here and let's see what happens in the US courts. He will get a great lawyer and probably walk away a free man. Just like OJ Simpson!

FYI: A hollywood movie is a hollywood movie is a hollywood movie is fiction.

Why Russia has gone overboard? Just because they don't say yes and follow everything what the USA wants or why?

Let him go free and don't send him to the USA. He was there never before why should he go now? He isn't OJ Simpsons. The USA are not the world police.

Send all their soldiers and armed forces that fighting in other countries all over the world back home to the US.

Whilst it is true that Hollywood is just fiction, Bout did actually play an advisory role in the making of that movie.

The guy is a well known arms dealer. He's known for being a-political, he will sell arms to anyone and he has no agenda other than making money. Some arms dealers have a 'higher purpose' and so are choosy about who they sell to.

Are some people here under the impression that Bout might just be a regular tourist in the wrong place at the wrong time ?

[rametindallas]

Russia has never shown any interest in the fate of its citizens in foreign lands. Why now? Just like the CIA funneled weapons illegally to the Contras in Nicaragua via Col. Oliver North, maybe Mr. Bout is a good Russian citizen who was doing his patriotic duty. The difference is, Col. North had only 3 entities to deal with (U.S. C.I.A., Iran, Contra rebels) whereas, Mr. Bout stands accused because he dealt with too many customers and got caught outside his protectional jurisdiction (Russia). If Col. North had been caught by the Nicaraguan government, he would possibly have been in the same position as Mr. Bout is today. Bad luck, Kharma, politics, whatever it is, I think it's very interesting to watch.

[craigt3365]

Could Russia be any more blatantly obvious? They don't want their arms subsidies of the "Lord of War" to come to light. Self interest reigns.

I agree with the above comment. Bout will get sent to the US, beans will be spilled. Russian big shots will be implicated. Russia has been thru a lot tougher situations than this, and they'll get thru this one as well.

Thai authorities shouldn't get headaches over this imbroglio.

I think you'll find that Bout has done work for he US too.

Maybe the reaso the US wants him so bad is so they can keep him quiet themselves.

That's ridiculous. If Bout wanted to disclose intel against the US, he has had plenty of time...both while free and also while in Thai prison. He is a bad man and the US want's him to quit supplying arms all over the world. Russia made a lot of money off him...friends for sure.

[webfact]

Russian Press Rap Bout's Extradition

The Russian press have confirmed that Viktor Bout will definitely be extradited to face charges in the United States, causing further diplomatic tension.

After the Thai court reached a verdict that alleged Russian arms dealer Viktor Bout will be extradited to face charges in the United States, the Russian Foreign Ministry has come out and announced that Bout's extradition case is purely a political matter.

Moscow said that despite Bout being detained in a Thai prison, Thailand insisted on extraditing him to the US even though he has been acquitted of new charges.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said in an interview that Moscow will not hold talks with Washington to discuss Bout's fate and the proposal that Russia and the United States reach an agreement related to the Bout case is beyond the sphere of the law.

The Russian press believe that Bout will definitely face charges on US soil and the Thai government may possibly delay the extradition process to avoid scrutiny surrounding pressure from Washington.

Since Thailand has always been an ally of Washington, the Russian press reported that the US will present Thailand with fighter jets and oil at a discounted price for clearing the way for Bout's extradition.

Russian security experts and analysts stated the Thai government must carefully justify and review Bout's extradition to the US since its sensitivity can cause further tension in international relations.

US news network, Fox News, claimed that Moscow will not simply surrender Bout to the US and Russia may cooperate with Al Qaeda to retaliate against Washington.

Bout's wife, Alla Bout, pointed out that the presence of US aircraft carrier USS George Washington in the Thai waters is proof of Washington's pressure on the Thai court's verdict.

She went on to say that her husband may have been psychologically tormented or chemically induced for Washington to attain necessary information.

The Russian press also said Washington is using Bout's case to discredit Moscow for competing with the US in an arms race and that Washington had previously boycotted a Russian company for allegedly supplying arms to terrorist groups.

-- Tan Network 2010-10-07

[asiawatcher]

I tend to agree with previous posts thru the last weeks. Why is Russia so interested in keeping Bout out of the US authorities clutches?

Ams dealers are arms dealers, there are those openly selling and acquiring arms and many wear a uniform. Others work in not so open environments. Those in the 'grey' area are the competitors and of course everyone is about cutting out competitors. Naturally!

But recall, the US trained, financed and armed Osama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein et al and the argument seems very one sided against Bout. I can't stand who he is or what he does and would rather rid the world of all these people, even the ones in uniform, but double standards, selective appropriate law slinging matches, and all the associated problems here with diplomats and politicians interferring and the Thai PM trying to appease both sides, would tend to muddy any clarity as to issues of law and proof of guilt rather than accusation and innuendo.

I would leave him here, deny both sides, and try him under Thai law. Let him rot incarcerated and let this all just go away. One man, and how much is all this costing in time (time is money) and wasted effort. I think Russia has a lot to answer as to why their defence of his extradition is so important and I think the US should pull their heads in from the bullying tactics and allow judicial sensibilities to proceed.

Edited October 7, 2010 by asiawatcher

[SergeiY]

The movie was LOOSELY based on Viktor Bout. Who was called "Lord of War" before the movie was produced. Russia has gone way overboard on this one. It is obvious they don't want him in the US due the what he knows...and what may potentially come out. Russia would never go this far for one of it's "ordinary" citizens.

Send him to the US. Get him out of here and let's see what happens in the US courts. He will get a great lawyer and probably walk away a free man. Just like OJ Simpson!

FYI: A hollywood movie is a hollywood movie is a hollywood movie is fiction.

Why Russia has gone overboard? Just because they don't say yes and follow everything what the USA wants or why?

Let him go free and don't send him to the USA. He was there never before why should he go now? He isn't OJ Simpsons. The USA are not the world police.

Send all their soldiers and armed forces that fighting in other countries all over the world back home to the US.

Whilst it is true that Hollywood is just fiction, Bout did actually play an advisory role in the making of that movie.

The guy is a well known arms dealer. He's known for being a-political, he will sell arms to anyone and he has no agenda other than making money. Some arms dealers have a 'higher purpose' and so are choosy about who they sell to.

Are some people here under the impression that Bout might just be a regular tourist in the wrong place at the wrong time ?

I doubt that he played an advisory role in the making of that movie.

Right thing is that he is a business man, trade and deals with all kind of things and also provide cargo service to different organisations and nations and his companies operate worldwide.

Right thing is also that there is no evidence that he ever dealt with some FARC members. The 'talks' in Bangkok were just some Micky mouse set up up US drug police. Nothing more. Based on that set up is the extradition request, that is the charge brought to the court.

All his alleged other deals and former involvement in some dubious action should have nothing to do with it in how the court and the judges handle this case.

This set up with an undercover law enforcement agent who offers you to commit some crime is some questionable practice. And he hasn't even done it yet. They call it just conspiring against the USA.

It has nothing to do that I or other are under a (false) impression that Bout is just a "tourist in the wrong place at the wrong time". Its quite understandable that Russia protects his citizen under this circumstances. I think it is understandable that here a couple of poster express the opinion that its wrong to send him to the USA. The USA acts just another time as the world police but that isnt accepted everywhere else in the world.

Because some people got so moralistic and calling Bout the merchant of Death, blaming him for all evil things in the world and want to add the following:

Bout isnt a supporter of the FARC nor an ally of them.

Some may call the FARC a terrorist organisation. 'Terrorists' don't come out of the blue and just do their thing because they are just the pure evil. Terrorists are symptoms that something have gone wrong in a society, people turned unhappy, unhappy people turned to become terrorists.

So Some people keep repeating to mention the all current crimes of the FARC. But lets have a look at the history and a question that should be asked is: Why Colombia got the FARC? Wikipedia is the source of cjoice to nail Bout and The FARC so lets look what Wikipedia hay to say about the beginning of the FARC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colombian_armed_conflict_(1964-present)

In the early 1960s Colombian Army units loyal to the National Front began, at the behest of the United States, to attack peasant communities throughout Colombia that they considered to be enclaves for bandits and Communists. It was the 1964 attack on the community of Marquetalia that motivated the later creation of FARC[10].

...

The Colombian government organized several short-lived counter-guerrilla campaigns in the late 50s and early 60s. These efforts were aided by the U.S. government and the CIA, which employed hunter-killer teams and involved U.S. personnel from the previous Philippine campaign against the Huks, and which would later participate in the subsequent Phoenix Program in Vietnam.[12][13]

Furthermore all this allegation against Bout, the accusation he dealt with that dictator. He sold weapons to these terrorists there and there and so on ... He isn't the only one in this world doing this. Before throwing stones at him, we should look who else.

And the point is as you said "He's known for being a-political" Bout will sell to anyone and he has no agenda just business. But others dealers have a 'higher purpose' and so are choosy about who they sell to. A short study of history shows that he idea of the doing it for the greater good creates often problems that are much worse. And the 'greater good' is just a propaganda lie anyway. So in moral terms, these other dealers are the real perverts.

[Jingthing]

If he doesn't negotiate a plea deal, the man will be going to TRIAL in the US. Which means he is innocent until proven guilty under US law. And so off he goes.

Next ...

[Tigs]

Whilst it is true that Hollywood is just fiction, Bout did actually play an advisory role in the making of that movie.

The guy is a well known arms dealer. He's known for being a-political, he will sell arms to anyone and he has no agenda other than making money. Some arms dealers have a 'higher purpose' and so are choosy about who they sell to.

Are some people here under the impression that Bout might just be a regular tourist in the wrong place at the wrong time ?

Pedro

To be quite honest that statement is utter bolleux. Arms dealers are arms dealers, they are ALL in it to make large amounts of cash. There is no 'higher purpose', it doesn't exist, give an example. So the US are pissed off with Bout for selling arms to kill American soldiers. What about when the US armed the Mujahadin (now read Taliban/Al Quaida) up to the teeth with weapons to kill Russian soldiers? The same weapons now being used to kill US troops in Afghanistan. All is fair in love and war! A pox on all arms dealers, be they sole trader or Government!

[ianf]

Saudi interfering in Thailand's internal affairs.

Russia interfering in Thailand's internal affair.

Thailand refuses to interfere in Burma's internal affairs when they should get involved and stop the appalling human rights abuses in that country.

All a bit upside down to me.

[Sabre]

Could Russia be any more blatantly obvious? They don't want their arms subsidies of the "Lord of War" to come to light. Self interest reigns.

I agree with the above comment. Bout will get sent to the US, beans will be spilled. Russian big shots will be implicated. Russia has been thru a lot tougher situations than this, and they'll get thru this one as well.

Thai authorities shouldn't get headaches over this imbroglio.

I think you'll find that Bout has done work for he US too.

Maybe the reaso the US wants him so bad is so they can keep him quiet themselves.

That's right, let's not forget who the biggest arms dealer in the world really is.

[SomTumTiger]

If the man has blood on this hands, (which seems likely), it seems fair for him to stand trial for it. Russia's motives in this are completely bogus and self serving. They don't give a crap about Bout, they care about the people he might implicate.

[craigt3365]

I doubt that he played an advisory role in the making of that movie.

Right thing is that he is a business man, trade and deals with all kind of things and also provide cargo service to different organisations and nations and his companies operate worldwide.

Right thing is also that there is no evidence that he ever dealt with some FARC members. The 'talks' in Bangkok were just some Micky mouse set up up US drug police. Nothing more. Based on that set up is the extradition request, that is the charge brought to the court.

All his alleged other deals and former involvement in some dubious action should have nothing to do with it in how the court and the judges handle this case.

This set up with an undercover law enforcement agent who offers you to commit some crime is some questionable practice. And he hasn't even done it yet. They call it just conspiring against the USA.

It has nothing to do that I or other are under a (false) impression that Bout is just a "tourist in the wrong place at the wrong time". Its quite understandable that Russia protects his citizen under this circumstances. I think it is understandable that here a couple of poster express the opinion that its wrong to send him to the USA. The USA acts just another time as the world police but that isnt accepted everywhere else in the world.

Because some people got so moralistic and calling Bout the merchant of Death, blaming him for all evil things in the world and want to add the following:

Bout isnt a supporter of the FARC nor an ally of them.

Some may call the FARC a terrorist organisation. 'Terrorists' don't come out of the blue and just do their thing because they are just the pure evil. Terrorists are symptoms that something have gone wrong in a society, people turned unhappy, unhappy people turned to become terrorists.

So Some people keep repeating to mention the all current crimes of the FARC. But lets have a look at the history and a question that should be asked is: Why Colombia got the FARC? Wikipedia is the source of cjoice to nail Bout and The FARC so lets look what Wikipedia hay to say about the beginning of the FARC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colombian_armed_conflict_(1964-present)

In the early 1960s Colombian Army units loyal to the National Front began, at the behest of the United States, to attack peasant communities throughout Colombia that they considered to be enclaves for bandits and Communists. It was the 1964 attack on the community of Marquetalia that motivated the later creation of FARC[10].

...

The Colombian government organized several short-lived counter-guerrilla campaigns in the late 50s and early 60s. These efforts were aided by the U.S. government and the CIA, which employed hunter-killer teams and involved U.S. personnel from the previous Philippine campaign against the Huks, and which would later participate in the subsequent Phoenix Program in Vietnam.[12][13]

Furthermore all this allegation against Bout, the accusation he dealt with that dictator. He sold weapons to these terrorists there and there and so on ... He isn't the only one in this world doing this. Before throwing stones at him, we should look who else.

And the point is as you said "He's known for being a-political" Bout will sell to anyone and he has no agenda just business. But others dealers have a 'higher purpose' and so are choosy about who they sell to. A short study of history shows that he idea of the doing it for the greater good creates often problems that are much worse. And the 'greater good' is just a propaganda lie anyway. So in moral terms, these other dealers are the real perverts.

Bout is a very smart man. Here is why they say it was so hard to arrest him for anything:

========================================================

Constantly moving location, owning numerous companies and frequently re-registering aircraft[2][24] made it hard for authorities to make a case against Bout. He has never been charged for the alleged African arms deals to which he owes his notoriety.

========================================================

Regarding FARC, from your same source:

========================================================

FARC-EP, the ELN, and right-wing paramilitaries all train teens as soldiers and informants. Human Rights Watch estimates that the FARC-EP has the majority of child combatants in Colombia, estimating that approximately one quarter of the guerrillas are under 18 years of age.

=======================================================

At least 50,000, and possibly as many as 200,000, people have died in the conflict since 1964, including some 40 000 since 1990 alone.

======================================================

If these people were not supplied arms, there would not have been as many deaths. Period. This isn't about the FARC, it's about Bout and his desire to make money off anybody who wants to buy weapons for ANY reason. Not a noble man, IMHO.

Feel free to defend him, but I am sure you are in the minority. I hate to use this analogy, but if your mother was being held right now by the FARC, after being kidnapped and held for ransom, would you support them? Please don't tell me you wouldn't care...

[Jingthing]

Imagine how much less squaking there would be about this extradition if it was Costa Rica or Switzerland going after him rather than the USA.

[trogers]

Russia warns against US meddling in Thailand-Bout case

Russia dissatisfied over court's dismissal of second charge

I am confused. Will the Russian Embassy care to clarify on the issue of meddling?

[Tigs]

If these people were not supplied arms, there would not have been as many deaths. Period. This isn't about the FARC, it's about Bout and his desire to make money off anybody who wants to buy weapons for ANY reason. Not a noble man, IMHO.

Feel free to defend him, but I am sure you are in the minority. I hate to use this analogy, but if your mother was being held right now by the FARC, after being kidnapped and held for ransom, would you support them? Please don't tell me you wouldn't care...

It is nothing to do with Bout in isolation. It is why I said in my last post, 'a pox on all arms dealers, be they sole trader or Government'.

If Bout would not have sold weapons to FARC, then somebody else would have done. Where does the 'blood on the hands actually lie'? The middle man? or the weapons manufacturers or the end user?.

Between them, the US, Russia, China, France, Germany and UK have supplied almost every terrorist group world-wide with weapons, they have supplied almost all the weapons for any uprisings and Government overthrows, and lets not start on the provision of WMDs to Saddam Hussein (ALL his chemical/Biological weapons capability.) Today's 'higher cause' as someone has already put it, is tomorrows terrorist organisation, depending on the whim and mood of major arms dealing Governments. The only people wanting this continuous bloodshed....the weapons manufacturers, whose salesmen we happen to call, arms dealers. Bout, as a 'sole trader', is no less guilty than Bush, Blair, Chirac etc and all their predecessors for the last 60 years.

[Tigs]

Russia warns against US meddling in Thailand-Bout case

Russia dissatisfied over court's dismissal of second charge

I am confused. Will the Russian Embassy care to clarify on the issue of meddling?

Both statements make sense.

Russia is dissatisfied with the ruling because it now leaves the possibility of extradition on the table. It was basically the last obstacle in the way of the extradition process. Now it has been dismissed, the barrier is no longer there, so the Russians are mighty miffed. The only thing that will delay the process is if the courts accept an appeal.

[flying]

If he doesn't negotiate a plea deal, the man will be going to TRIAL in the US. Which means he is innocent until proven guilty under US law. And so off he goes.

Next ...

Perhaps in a galaxy long ago & far away that had a functioning constitution

Now with the Patriot<sic> act they can hold him where ever & for as long as they like.

Such is the mask of anti terrorism laws

If so then he could just become another Guantánamo Bay detainee that never see's a courtroom. So much for innocent until proven guilty these days.

There is no legit reason for this man to be sent to the USA

If so then when will the US personnel responsible for supplying arms to various factions be sent to the country in which those arms were used conspiring to kill nationals of those countries?

As stated in the original article....

Under the first ruling, Bout should be sent to the United States within 90 days to face trial for terrorism charges.

Bout was arrested in Bangkok in March 2008 during a US-led operation to catch him for his role in fuelling armed conflicts in different parts of the world and conspiring to kill American nationals.

Edited October 7, 2010 by flying

[Jingthing]

He is NOT going to Guantánamo Bay. I personally guarantee that. What a red herring.

Next ...

[sirchai]

Could Russia be any more blatantly obvious? They don't want their arms subsidies of the "Lord of War" to come to light. Self interest reigns.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva yesterday signalled that the extradition of Russian arm dealer Viktor Bout to the US could be delayed further because Moscow is dissatisfied with the court's latest decision.

It's quite obvious that there's a lot of self interest involved.

Should be up to PM Abhisit to make his decision alone without anybody else interfering. :jap:

[sirchai]

He is NOT going to Guantánamo Bay. I personally guarantee that. What a red herring.

Next ...

Let him go to Guantanamo Bay and the Germans will take him out..........:jap:

[craigt3365]

If these people were not supplied arms, there would not have been as many deaths. Period. This isn't about the FARC, it's about Bout and his desire to make money off anybody who wants to buy weapons for ANY reason. Not a noble man, IMHO.

Feel free to defend him, but I am sure you are in the minority. I hate to use this analogy, but if your mother was being held right now by the FARC, after being kidnapped and held for ransom, would you support them? Please don't tell me you wouldn't care...

It is nothing to do with Bout in isolation. It is why I said in my last post, 'a pox on all arms dealers, be they sole trader or Government'.

If Bout would not have sold weapons to FARC, then somebody else would have done. Where does the 'blood on the hands actually lie'? The middle man? or the weapons manufacturers or the end user?.

Between them, the US, Russia, China, France, Germany and UK have supplied almost every terrorist group world-wide with weapons, they have supplied almost all the weapons for any uprisings and Government overthrows, and lets not start on the provision of WMDs to Saddam Hussein (ALL his chemical/Biological weapons capability.) Today's 'higher cause' as someone has already put it, is tomorrows terrorist organisation, depending on the whim and mood of major arms dealing Governments. The only people wanting this continuous bloodshed....the weapons manufacturers, whose salesmen we happen to call, arms dealers. Bout, as a 'sole trader', is no less guilty than Bush, Blair, Chirac etc and all their predecessors for the last 60 years.

Here! Here! Right on, my man....very sad, isn't it....and lot's of others have gotten very rich selling arms...Bout is just one.

Could Russia be any more blatantly obvious? They don't want their arms subsidies of the "Lord of War" to come to light. Self interest reigns.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva yesterday signalled that the extradition of Russian arm dealer Viktor Bout to the US could be delayed further because Moscow is dissatisfied with the court's latest decision.

It's quite obvious that there's a lot of self interest involved.

Should be up to PM Abhisit to make his decision alone without anybody else interfering. :jap:

Everybody is complaining the US is meddling as the world's policeman...seems Russia is right up there with them...Where's the complaining about them????